Improviser

Well you need to start pinning some things down obviously if you plan to do this next month.

With 21 days including arrival/departure day which are really write-offs, I would confine it to Italy, Switzerland and Austria from your list.

Further, I would confine it to only the part of each country that fit into a reasonable distance to move around in. For example, look at a map of Europe and the triangle between Geneva, Switzerland; Salzburg, Austria and Florence, Italy.

Now do some research on the part of each country that triangle includes and see what appeals to you. You cannot expect people here to write a guidebook for you, those already exist and there is no shortcut to YOU doing the research to decide where to spend your time.

I could suggest to you for example that a day visiting Ballenberg in Switzerland was a good idea but it might or might not appeal to you. I don't know you. YOU have to decide YOUR itinerary, not expect others to tell you a 'killer itinerary'.

Look at flying 'open jaw' (in to one city and out of another which allows for a one way journey rather than having to circle back to depart from the same city you arrived in).

Look at rail passes and look at car rental. How is your budget? A car for your entire stay would give maximum flexibility but may cost more.

Consider travel time vs. time spent IN places. Moving every day or two is not the most efficient use of time. Most people want to 'see as much as possible' but often confuse the word 'much' with the word 'many'. They are not synonymous. The way to see as much as possible is to spend time IN places, not in BETWEEN places.

A good rule of thumb to use in planning how to maximize use of your time is the Rule of 3s which in terms of travel planning says, never spend less than 3 full days/4 nights in a place unless it is just an overnight stop between A and B. Note the 'less than', it is a minimum. Also note the 3/4. Almost every time you move from A to B you will lose most if not all of a day to travel. That's what the 3/4 allows for.

Using that rule and with 21 days you will see that minus your arrival and departure day (write-offs) you should plan on visiting no more than 4-5 places.

Starting with that in mind tends to stop you from adding on place after place.

So typically, someone might come up with fly into Geneva or Zurich, rent a car and drive to the Bernese Oberland in Switzerland. Stay for 4 nights. Drive to Ascona, Switzerland and stay 4 nights. Drive to Florence, Italy and stay 4 nights. Drive to Riva Del Garda, Italy, stay 4 nights. Drive to Innsbruck, Austria, stay 4 nights. Fly home from Innsbruck.

But that is just one of countless possibilities.

Jean

"Using that rule and with 21 days you will see that minus your arrival and departure day (write-offs) you should plan on visiting no more than 4-5 places." I would emphasize you should think in terms of "places" and not "countries."

Every time you change hotels, no matter how close together they might seem, you'll lose at least a half day.

I probably wouldn't drive in Switzerland, just because their train and bus system is so good.

If you pick up a car in one country and drop it in another, there will likely be a steep surcharge on top of the rental quote. Look into that before deciding on your transportation plan.

Michael

If you pick up a car in one country and drop it in another, there will likely be a steep surcharge on top of the rental quote. Look into that before deciding on your transportation plan.

That is why I am suggesting a circular tour, and also because it would require a lot of zig-zagging if trying to cover the German, Swiss, Austrian and Italian Alps with a one-way rental. The OP should get a map of the Alpine area and mark what is of interest and then decide on the route and transportation mode.

Improviser

Yes, drop off charges will apply. But the OP has given no indication of any budget constraints. They don't bother me, they may not bother the OP. I'd rather pay to drop off than spend time returning to A.

I do use trains sometimes particularly in Switzerland where the system is probably the best in the world. But I also like driving and driving over some of the passes in the Alps is quite memorable. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

terri_zager

thanks for all the knowledge and experienced advice. I had to book flights today due to expiring travel points so chose to arrive in Milan and depart in Prague. The route looked interesting. I have been to Florence and Venice so I am more interested in the Lakes region of Italy for this trip. I love the 3/4 Rule which I have not heard of before and makes a lot of sense. Will most likely use the rail system in Switzerland as recommended but would like to do some driving as well just not sure which countries yet. If anyone has any recommendations or favorites along this "open jaw" journey I sure would like to hear them. We live in an Alpine Lake community on the border of California and Nevada but we dont have the cities or history that this region offers.

Written in pencil so far:
4 nights in Como or , Maggiore, or Garda.
4 nights Bern or Zurich Switzerland
2 nights in stuttgart (porsche)
3 nights in munich
3 nights in Salzburg (SOM bike tour??)
4 nights in Prague

Anyone make this trip before and have any thoughts on the best travel modes, accommodations, eateries, not- to- miss sights or activities. No budget really but like to travel moderately, actively and comfortably. Thanks again!

Improviser

Well, of the lakes you mention, Como is the obvious choice if going on to Bern/Zurich. But not all lakes are created equal. Como or Maggiore are quite different from Garda in terms of scenery and density of people for example. Garda would make more sense if planning to drive into Austria. The other two if planning to go into Switzerland.

I like Ascona on the Swiss side of Maggiore and Riva del Garda on Garda.

Why Bern or Zurich? While a day shopping in Bern's arcades can be fun, generally speaking, Switzerland is about the mountains. Most people would consider the Bernese Oberland as the 'typical Switzerland' they envision. Staying in a village and perhaps taking a day trip to visit a city.

Prague, yet another city, is a bit far from the rest of your plan but you've booked it now so that's that. Nothing wrong with Prague but if you have to have a city stay there, why all the other cities as well? What happened to seeing the countryside and maybe doing some light hiking?

terri_zager

Improvisor: I appreciate all your comments! You are correct we do want to see the countryside mostly but dont know yet what villiages are good to operate out of. Any recommendations would be helpful. I think we will do driving in Italy and Germany, not sure about Austria or Czech either. I am so green at this and really appreciate all input. I dont want to stay in a busy city any length of time for its sights, day trips there are fine, Im just not sure where to operate from. I will be able to do some research once my books from amazon arrive but for now i love the comments from seasoned travelers who have been to these places. Just curious if you were doing this trip what would your itinerary look like?

Improviser

Well, I wouldn't do Milan to Prague. Just wouldn't pick that departure point. Milan to start is fine but I would have picked another departure city.

But if I had to then I'd probably do 4 nights Ascona (Lake Maggiore), 4 nights Wengen (Bernese Oberland) with a day trip to Bern included. 4 nights Innsbruck, 4 nights Munich or Salzburg(more likely Salzburg) and 4 nights Prague.

terri_zager

Thank you. I have had a couple of people say the same about arrival in Milan and departure from Prague and am curious why? I hope i havent made a big mistake by choosing these cities.

Michael

I have had a couple of people say the same about arrival in Milan and departure from Prague and am curious why?

The question is why did you choose this arrival and departure. Just because? or because you could redeem frequent flyer miles? One normally chooses arrival and departure on the basis of what the trip is supposed to cover, which assumes having some idea of a general itinerary--i.e. towns to visit, things to see, etc.

Improviser

Cart before the horse terri.

I simply think Prague is a long way from Milan. That means you have to spend TIME going from one to the other. If you had chosen somewhere closer to Milan to depart from then obviously your travel time (however you break it up) would have been less.

In travel, less is always more. The less you move the more you see/do. Taken to the extreme, the most efficient way is to fly to one place, spend all your time there and then fly back from that same place. Never moving hotels, spending time driving or on trains etc. but instead spending ALL your time IN a place seeing/doing things.

But people often want to visit more than one place or simply don't think there will be enough in one place to keep them busy for the whole time they have available. That's fine and so you look for a balance. Move as little as possible while still having enough to see/do that interests you.

In the case of Europe, there is a limitless number of places to visit that would be of interest and a limiteless number of things to see/do in those places. So since you can't do it all, you have to use some kind of criteria to help you plan.

Something like the Rule of 3s gives you a starting point and so does confining it to a geographic area to limit the distances between places you will stay.

With Milan-Prague, you have chosen a larger geographic area to cover than I personally think is necessary to provide enough places to keep you happy. Milan-Geneva or Milan-Zurich or Milan-Nice or Milan-Rome would all probably have been enough. Choosing Prague to me simply means you will spend at least 1 more day moving than choosing somewhere closer would have required.

Choosing to go to 3 cities in Germany instead of just one will also cost you time lost to travel. Even when places are only a short train/car ride apart, you still lose at least half a day and often most of a day in reality moving from one to the other. Less is more, move less, see/do more.