Hi SShprints,

Sure, your itinerary is pretty good. However, aside from the single day in Luzern (which isn't right in the mountains), you aren't going near any high peaks. Is there a reason why? It would seem a shame to be in Switzerland and not spend more time in the high peaks, a mountain village, etc.

You may want to do something like this --

Fly into Zürich and spend one or two nights in Luzern.

Go to the Engadin Valley in the eastern part of the country, centering in the Upper Engadin around St. Moritz/Sils/Pontresina, and stay for 3/4 nights. Then go on the Bernina Express over the Bernina Pass to Tirano and Milan and then to Lugano.

An alternate plan (and one very familiar to lots of English-speakers) would be to go fly into Zürich, spend one or two nights in Luzern. Then go to the Jungfrau area for 3/4 nights and then continue onward to Lugano.

You can reserach these places at the Swiss tourist site,

www.myswitzerland.com

Good luck!

s

are you suggesting we not spend any time in Zurich? I thought it was a beautiful and fun city to spend a few days in. Is this not the case?

I would forget Zurich--start in Luzern and give it at least 2 nites. Then, to Lugano and on to Menaggio on the west shore of Como and ferry to Bellagio. Spend your last nite in Zurich--that will give you a feel.

Hi again,

Yes, it is a beautiful city -- as cities go. Europe is filled with beautiful cities.

But the Alps are something else entirely.

Just mo. But while in Switzerland, I would sure spend the bulk of my time in the Swiss Alps.

s

I have been to Bellagio a few years ago and LOVED it..which is why I want to spend 3 days in the south Swiss region..with a possible day trip to Bellagio/Menaggio.

How is Mt Pilatus? Thats doable for a day trip from Lucerne. I'd rather not make an additional stop over with only 7 days. Can I take a day trip from either Zurich or Lucerne to the Alps?

Is this better?

Day 1/2 - Zurich
Day 3/4 - Lucerne/Mt Pilatus
Day 5/6/7 - Lugano/Ascona/Bellagio

I have the 2 days in Lucerne and can theoratically venture out farther than Pilatus...St Moritz just feels so much farther

Yes, Luzern is nearby some mountains -- Rigi, Pilatus, and Titlis. Information here:

www.rigi.ch
www.titlis.ch
www.pilatus.ch

But again, I would spend the BULK of my time in the mountains, not simply a few days. I'm not saying to take time away from your first love of the Italian Lakes but rther from Zürich (sorry, Zürich lovers).

s

I literaly have about a day and a half in Zurich, as we arrive mid-day on July 1. Our flight back is July 8 midday...so that leaves is with 6 full days. 3 days I def want to spend in the south lake region..so that leaves me with 3 days for other regions. What if switch Lucerne for St Moritz?

Day 1/2/3 - Lucerne/Mt. Pilatus
Day 4/5/6/7 - Lugano/Bellagio

It takes 2.30 hrs to get from Lucerne to Lugano by train
It takes 2 hrs to get from Lugano to Ascona by train and bus (from Locarno)
It takes 1 hour from Lugano to Menaggio by bus. You need to take the ferry from Menaggio to Bellagio.

I'm afraid your underestimating the time it takes to get around Switzerland.

I would cross off Ascona from your list unless you leave about 6 hours for it.

No, with only three days, it makes no sense to spend a whole day in a detour even though it's through great landscape.

Luzern is only an hour from the airport by direct (0 changes) train, so it's really convenient to go there upon arrival. I would just go to Luzern for three days, as there is plenty to do. More information

www.luzern.org
the city's tourist site

www.lakelucerne.ch
information on lake cruises, etc

Then you can see Zürich when you leave, as bobthenav suggests above.

s

ok so the trip had to be cut down slightly to accomodate another traveler. We also decided to rent a car. I booked the tix and this is the tentaive plan:
July 3-arrive to Zurich at 1pm..rent the car, spend the rest of the day in the city.
July 4/5 - Lucerne/Mt Pilatus
July 6/7 - Lugano area
July 8 - catch the midday flight back to NY from Zurich.

It's not a lot of days..so we're hopping to just make it a small Swiss roadtrip. Any detours we can take for beautiful scenary that isnt very far away?

I'd put the time in Zurich at the end. Head to Luzern immediately after arriving in Switzerland. Return to Zurich on July 7th and explore the city that afternoon/night. I wouldn't rent a car. Too little time for detours, and the places listed are all easily served by train, boat or other public trans.

Good itinerary. You really don't need to rent a car unless you'd like to include some mountain passes in your driving or have the possibility to drive to Menaggio.

There might be some traffic jams before the Gotthard tunnel on July 6 so if you're travelling by car, be prepared to go over the Gotthard, not through it. Don't worry. It's an easy drive with wide roads. It's a great mountain pass for "beginners."

I imagine that would be more problematic to get from Lugano to Bellagio by train/ferry, no? Also, with a car, it seems much easier to just get up and go (not spending time to get to/from the train station). I am necessarily for or against renting a car..just figured it would be easier.

I don't know what you had hoped to see in the Lugano area, but for general sightseeing along the lake you don't need a car. Some sights would be harder (or take longer) to get to by car than by ferry.

Lugano to Bellagio without a car is easy. No trains involved. It's a one-hour bus ride to Menaggio and a very short walk to the ferry dock. If you keep the car, you'd want to park it in Menaggio (where and how much?). Taking the car all the way to Bellagio would be too much trouble.

We are also considering to the drive via the Simplon Pass..can this be done without a car?
What other towns in Ticino or Lombardi is worth the visit?

Not sure if you are still planning, or if you are already gone, but in Switzerland you need to rent a car to make the most of the country. Especially if you want to travel around the full area.

If you do not have a car then you will be more or less limited to the major arteries served by the trains.

I would suggest that you make Zurich your base as it has the best flight connections and trains to all points in CH (as you have already been to Genf it would be a good change to see the German speaking part). You can see the north of the country (Stein Am Rhein, Appenzeller, and schaffhausen) all without a car (although it would be easier with one).

You can take a day trip from Zurich to Titlis, or other excursions. Depending on what strikes your fancy you can also check out Interlaken. There are very good connections from Zurich to Interlaken and there is lots to do.

If you want to head to Tessin (lugano, locarno, or Ascona) you must have a car, yes it is possible to do it without, but then you won't be able to drive over the Alps from Zurich to Tessin, and you won't be able to take in the sights. In the Zurich area a car can be a bit of a pain, but in the south it is a necessity.

If you stick to only the train you can take a look at the official train site to get an idea of the time needed from point to point.

I will give you a bit of warning though (assuming you come from the US), the trains are expensive in Switzerland. As a tourist you can buy special tickets, or buy cheaper tickets in the US. For example a round trip second class full price ticket from Zurich to Genf will cost 180 pp (if the return is longer than 24hrs after departure) Zurich to Genf is only 3 hrs on the train.

http://www.sbb.ch/en/index.htm

The SBB does offer special deals from time to time.
http://sparbillette.sbb.ch/home/default.asp?lang=4

I have to disagree 100% with surfpowder's post above. We've made many trips to the Ticino and never with a car. And of course you can take in the sights! A lake cruise, walking around the villages of Morcote-Gandria, riding the funiculars up to the peaks around Lugano--you don't need a car for any of those! And for crying out loud, surfpowder, the OP will be spending only two days or so in Lugano.

FWIW, the train ride from Luzern to Lugano is pretty and you DO get to see mountains along the way.

Passerine you've taken the words out of my mouth. I have been go to Switzerland for many years I don't drive, so the trains, buses and boats are my only means of transport. I have managed to get to some very pretty small villages, if the train doen't go there then a bus will. The Swiss don't all have cars and their public transport is about the best in world. OK it takes a bit longer sometimes but what the heck I'm on holiday so what does time matter.

I get nervous when a poster tells somebody else to rent a car so they can see the scenery better, because 1) the driver is likely to be jetlagged and 2) when you're driving, you're supposed to keep your eyes on the ROAD, not on the scenery in the distance!

In a train, the traveller can relax, take in the passing scenery and even doze if jetlag hits.

"Not sure if you are still planning, or if you are already gone, but in Switzerland you need to rent a car to make the most of the country. Especially if you want to travel around the full area.

Bad, bad, bad advice.

In Switzerland, you need a car when:
- you want to drive over the passes
- go visit relatives in the countryside
- cannot fathom timetables
- like driving and want to drive.

>If you do not have a car then you will be more or less limited to the major arteries served by the trains.

Only that in Switzerland, these "major arteries" are 90% of the country.

ummm, interesting comments from all as rebuttal to my suggestion that a car would be optimum to see the countryside.

- I live in Switzerland and travel almost exclusively by public transport, but public transport does not go everywhere and does not have the same schedule on Sundays and nights. Public transport can also be extremely expensive for foreigners, so if you have 2/3 people in your party the rental car will be cheaper. (Swiss residents can buy a 1/2 price card)
- By taking in the sights I mean stopping for a coffee when you feel like it, or stopping to see anything you want at your own pace.
- Yes, I know it can be done by train, and I enjoy travelling first class and having a couple of drinks without having to worry about driving, but it is simply more convenient to do it by car.

I would suggest that anyone travelling to Switzerland take a look at the SBB site and calculate the time required to travel to points on their itinerary and come to their own conclusions on a decision for a car.

>(Swiss residents can buy a 1/2 price card)

Everybody who can pay 99 resp. 150 Fr can buy a 1/2 price card. No need to be a resident.

To the OP, on renting a car: It is your choice!!! If you have made the choice, stick to your guns. I don't live in Switzerland, but I am in the country twice a year, and DH and I always have a car. Always.

And, yes, there is a lot you can see in Switzerland by train and bus... the trains in Switzerland are absolutely the best! But sometimes we like to take the road to the right (at the fork on the road) and you can't decide to take an alternate route if you are on a train. As was mentioned above, in a previous post, you cannot decide to stop for a coffee or look at souvenirs if you are at the mercy of the train schedule.

When I first read your itinerary, I was going to reply that you spend only one night in Zurich and then head to Lucerne for a couple of nights, rather than 3 in Zurich and 1 in Lucerne. Much as I love Zurich, Lucerne is where I would want to spend more time.

I've been to Locarno many many times (when I win the lottery, I'll buy a house there) and would suggest that you consider going there... I note that you were thinking about going to Ascona in your original post. IMO, and it's just my opinion, since your time is short, Locarno/Ascona is a little easier to navigate since it is smaller.

What ever you decide to do, I truly hope you have a wonderful time. Switzerland is my favorite country in Europe.

thanks for all the info guys..leaving on Thursday!
Yes I am happy with my choice to rent a car..we are def car people..have rented a car in italy and in france and loved every second of it.
I hope the weather is nice..sticking to my itinerary:
Day 1-Zurich
Day 2-Lucerne
Day 3-Mt Pilatus plus free half day
Day 4-Lugano
Day 5-Locarno/Ascona
Not sure I will get a chance to return to Bellagio as the itinerary is pretty packed as is, but we'll take it one day at a time and see

Thanks guys

Lugano: Walk to Gandria and take the ferry back (or vice-versa)

Ascona: Walk towards the harbour (near the river Magga towards Locarno) - (about 40 min. on direction) and back. This is a walk that takes you past the Eden Roc, through a residential area, to the public swimming area, along sandy beaches, past a golf course and ends at the small harbour. I'd recommend walking back because it's such a pleasant, nice and easy walk.

hello..
please tell e how much time it takes to go to lucerne from zurich.Is it possible to visit mt.titlis and jungfraujoch in one day.
thank you