kidslovemom

Hi all,
I'm planning a trip in August/Sept. to see friends in Geneva, Switzerland. We are 2 adults, a 10 year old and an 8 year old. Please comment on our plans, which I'm still molding. I would love to get your opinion! Thank you!
Day 1: Fly
Day 2: Arrive in Zurich, tour Zurich, sleep in Zurich or possibly Geneva (unsure when will travel) (flights for Zurich were by far the cheapest.)
Day 3: (Take train to Geneva), day trip, sleep at friend's home in Geneva.
Day 4: Day trips from Geneva, sleep in Geneva (any suggestions for must sees?)
Day 5: Depart Geneva for Salzburg by train. Sleep in Salzburg.
Day 6: Spend the day in Salzburg, sleep in Salzburg.
Day 7: Take early train to Graz. Visit birthplace of husband's grandmother, sleep in Graz.
Day 8: Take Semmering Pass Railway to Vienna, sleep in Vienna.
Day 9: Tour Vienna, sleep in Vienna.
Day 10: Take train to Munich, tour Munich, sleep in Munich.
Day 11: Rent a car and drive the Romantic Road, stay near Castle Neuschwanstein.
Day 12: Tour Castle Neuschwanstein and surrounding areas, heading toward The Black Forest.
Day 13: The Black Forest, tour the Zeppelin Museum in Friedrichshafen.
Day 14: Zeppelin ride over Lake Constance (our friends from Geneva may do this with us), sleep in Geneva?
Day 15: Fly out of Geneva

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. Has anyone out there done a sleeper car with kids that age? I would think they will get no sleep and then be miserable the next day/two days. How is the scenery from Geneva to Salzburg? Is it worth being awake for? : ) Thanks for all your thoughts!

treplow

You are covering too much ground.

My suggestions. They are based on the assumption that you will be coming from North America. Flying into Zuerich is a good idea. You and the kids will be worn out from the flight, though. I suggest you either catch a plane or a train at the Zuerich airport to take you to Geneva. Days 3 & 4 are fine. I'm sure your friends know all the places to see in Geneva. It's been a while since I was there last. I drove from there to Chamonix and spent a couple of nights in Annecy.

Now, have you checked the train connections from Geneva to Salzburg? Look at www.bahn.de. That's the website of the German Railway, by far the easiest site to maneuver (in English)and it covers all trains in continental Europe). You will find that there are two connections that require only 1 change of trains (1) The night connection leaves Geneva at 19:45, arrives in Zuerich at 22:31, and you catch the night sleeper train at 22:40, which gets you to Salzburg at 4:12 AM. What will you do at 4:12 AM at the Salzburg RR station? You probably won't even find a taxi to take you into the old town to your hotel. (2) There is one train leaving Geneva very early in the morning, with one change, but it too will take over 6 hours.

All other trains require from 3 to 5 changes en route.While our kids loved the sleeper from Milan to Brussels, that trip didn't involve any changes of trains and got us into Brussels around 9AM. We had two adjoining 2-bed compartments.

In short: I would fly from Geneva to Salzburg or to Munich (taking a 2 hour train from there to Salzburg. There is a eUR 28 ticket the four of you can ride on from Muncih to Salzburg)

Allow more time for Salzburg. It offers a castle, a palace and lots of other things the kids would enjoy as well.

Graz obviously is a must.

From Vienna take the train to Munich. Again check www.bahn.de for schgedules
Skip the Romatic Road. It is laregely a marketing gimmick. It runs from Fuessen/Neuschwanstein to Wertheim on the Main River. There is nothing romantic about the road itself; it is a regular highway that connects several attractive towns. But it is out of your way.

Instead, rent the car and drive from Munich to Fuessen, possibly also visiting en route the Linderhof Palace or taking the cograilway and/or cable car to the top of the Zugspitze (Germany's highest mountain) from Garmisch-Partenkirchen/Erwald. From Fuessen drive to Lindau (Lake Comstance). I can give you a scenic route. Sped a couple of nights on the Lindau island. There is also ;a nice farm hotel (Montfort Schloessle) on the mainland the kids would enjoy. Check Ben's Bauernhof website for details.

Drive to Friedrichshafen, see the Zepplin Muesum ( it also has a nice restuarnat overlooking the harbor) and by all means take the Zeppelin NT ride, if it is in port. It takes off opposite from the Friedrichshafen airport terminal. I took the ride a few years ago, on a beautiful day, and have great videos taken from the open window of that airship.

Skip the Black Forest, it would take you out of the way and your allotted time wouldn't do it justice . Instead drive from Fridchshafen to Meersburg. The kids will love the castle there. Take the car ferry across the lake to the Konstanz side of the lake and visit the Indel Mainau, a garden island with some nice parks and an outdoor model train for the kids. You adults will love the flowers on the island.

Turn in your car in Konstanz (the last place you can do that without incurring the steep cross-border dropo-off charge) and take the train to Zuerich and fly home from there.

Woyzeck

I would echo most of treplow's comments. Your itinerary is a little bit too much back and forth. Romantic Road is unnecessary (overrated) and Black Forest doesn't really fit as it would take you further afield. Graz is a little out of the way, but it obviously has some significance for your family. Forget about a sleeper car - your kids will be miserable - and there just won't be enough time to sleep.

You've got to smooth out the zig-zagging if you want to cover this much ground in 2 weeks.

If I were you, I would see if I could fly from Geneva all the way to Vienna and then work my way back. Vienna - Graz - Salzburg - Munich - Bodensee - Zurich. You should be able to find a reasonable flight to cover Geneva to Vienna. Stay in Vienna and then rent a car upon leaving the city. That way you are not doing all the backtracking.

Treplow's suggestion of a flight from Geneva to Salzburg - Graz - Vienna - Munich - Bodensee - Zurich would also work. You have a couple of options when searching for that flight.

stldv

And where you go to make holidays after this trip?

kidslovemom

Thank you all for all the information. Yes, I'm flying from NJ, USA. I really never gave a thought to flying within Europe. I will look into it. I know its a very busy itinerary. The reasons we are not just staying in Switzerland is: 1) I think our friends will have had enough of us after a few days. 2) My husband family links are to Germany and Austria and my kids just did immigration projects for 3rd grade where they each studied one of the two countries. The timing is just perfect. My only regret is that we can't squeeze in time to get up to Bremenhaven to meet their grandfather's cousin. But maybe I will look at airfares to try to do that. I just figured toward the end of this journey, we would just want to relax more (which is where I think stldv is coming from.) : ) Thank you again, I will look into the options you kindly listed for me.

padams421

First, my kids love the sleeper trains in Europe. They are a great adventure. The sleeper trains are useful in that you don't lose day time to travel.

I think you are spending too many days traveling. Most of your trip will be spent on trains and in the rental car. You will have little time at each location. A day each in Salzburg, Vienna, and Munich, and then a day to drive the Romantic Road and a day in the Black Forest, and a day on Lake Bodensee is the equivalent of visiting the US and spending a day each in Boston, NYC, and Washington DC (and using the train to get between these places), and then taking a drive through Eastern Maryland and the Poconos on your way back to Newark. If you think that sounds like a great way to see the US, then your itinerary is fine. I think your children, however, will mostly recall from this trip getting from one place to the next. In other words, they will think of Europe as sitting on trains and in the rental car.

Having been to Germany, Austria and Switzerland with our kids when they were 6 and 8, and again last summer when they were 11 and 13, I suggest skipping, at a minimum, the Romantic Road and the Black Forest. Use that time in Salzburg and Vienna. I like Woyzeck's suggestion of flying to Vienna, and then going to Graz, Salzburg, Munich and Bodensee. Treplow also has great suggestions.

Palenque

Has anyone out there done a sleeper car with kids that age? I would think they will get no sleep and then be miserable the next day/two days.>

Yes several times with my son when he was that age and he loved it every time - a real mystery tour to him and he always slept like a lamb and have i in literally hundreds of overnight train trips - you can see if that train has a T-4 compartment - private compartment for 4 people - two bunks on each side of an aisle.

>How is the scenery from Geneva to Salzburg? Is it worth being awake for?>

Well you will have seen the Swiss part already from Zurich to Geneva and the portion to Salzburg is not dramatically scenic.

You are traveling enough on trains in both Switzerland and Austria to warrant investigating the Switzerland-Austria Eurailpass that will cover all your rail trips previsioned in both countries and take you back from Vienna to Salzburg from where you would buy a regular point-point ticket to get to Munich. For loads of great info on train travel, and passes, in these countries i always highlight these info-laden sites - www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com - download the latter's free and superb IMO European Planning & Rail Guide as it has chapters on both Switzerland and Austria train travel. www.bahn.de as pointed out in an above post is the best and easiest site to get train schedules for all over Europe IME.
I think you have a wonderful itinerary sketched out - esp given your love of rail travel.

Echnaton

I am German and I hate sleeper trains - they are cramped and noisy. Never found adequate sleep in a train, not even in a first-class single sleeper compartment. And most distances within Germany are short enough to use a regular train. But that's just one story.

The second story is your itinerary. I agree with everybody else that you have too many destinations and to much travelling. Just one day for Vienna, just one day for Munich - that will give you not more than a superficial impression. I understand that you have many places with friends or relatives which will make your trip complicated. If Geneva is a must, if Graz is a must, then skip other destinations (e.g. Vienna or Salzburg) and use air travel if you have long distances to cover.

As everybody else, I strongly suggest to drop Black Forest. I have a condominium in Black Forest and I can truly advise you not to go there if you have not more than half a day for this huge region.

The third story is Bremerhaven, the port of Bremen. Bremen is in fact one of Germany's most beautiful cities, with a wonderful Old Town and a fabulous science museum. Since Bremen has an airport you might squeeze it in if you find convenient flights.

Palenque

Whether folks can sleep on sleeper trains varies greatly - myself i have taken literally hundreds of overnight trains and have usually slept like a log - but for folks averse to any noise well even in a private sleeper like Echnaton had, you still have noise from the tracks, etc. So it depends on what kind of sleeper you really are

Again i think it would be a super experience to do at least one with kids that age - based on my son and me doing the same when he was their age. He still fondly remembers the mystique of the overnight trains we took.

kidslovemom

Wow! Thank you all for taking the time to write back to me! I truly do appreciate it! I'm hyperventilating a little bit now. : ) So many variables.... I understand the idea of slowing down a bit. Even when you go to Disney, they say to take every 3rd day off with kids, and that is nothing compared to this. Wishing we could go for a month. Thank you all for the comments. If you think of anything else, please let me know!

Palenque

Yeh about renting a car, seemingly just for the Romantic Road - well IMO and IME the Romantic Road ain't romantic a'tall but a busy two-lane highway that was labeled in recent years by the German Tourist Board the Romantic Road because of the romantic old towns it links - like fabled Rothenburg, Dinkelsbuh, Nordlingen, Fussen, etc

But the towns can all be easily reached by train and or bus - Fussen is a few hours from Munich by train - Rothenburg ditto by train - well that's my opionion of what i think is a way overhyped 'Romantic Road'

BarbAnn

My son was 9 when we took him to Switzerland, Austria and Germany for the first time. My one suggestion is to have the kids help plan the trip. That way they are more willing to go along with the pace. He loved the visit to the salt mine out of Salzburg because he choose where we would go that day.

We also visited areas that my family came from. At that age it did not mean much to him. He is 21 now and it means more now.

Have fun. You will make a lot of wonderful family memories.

kidslovemom

Hi all,
Our trip has been revised...I have taken your advice and reduced in order for more time spent enjoying and less time watching the train bring us to the next location!
Day 1: fly
Day 2: Arrive in Zurich, take train immediately to Geneva
Day 3: Geneva (staying with friends)
Day 4: Geneva (staying with friends)
Day 5: Depart for Salzburg by train, sleep in Salzburg
Day 6: Salzburg, Sound of Music Tour, sleep in Salzburg
Day 7: Hallstat, salt mine, sleep in Salzburg
Day 8: Travel to Munich by train, sleep in Munich
Day 9: Tour Munich, sleep in Fussen.
Day 10: Neuschwanstein and Hohenschwangau, sleep in Fussen
Day 11: unsure of where sleeping. Would like to have special accommodations because its daughter's birthday...any suggestions?
Day 12: No plans, any suggestions would be great.
Day 13: Tour airship museum/hanger, Airship ride reservations made!!! (Can't wait!)
Day 14: Depart for Zurich, tour Zurich, sleep in Zurich
Day 15: Fly home out of Zurich.

Here's the changes: We will not be using a car at all, just train. We cut out Graz and Vienna.

Accommodations: I'm having trouble finding accommodations for 4 in Friedrichshafen reasonably priced...any suggestions or is there a better website to check than trip adviser? We need accommodations for days 11, 12 and 13.

Thank you for any all advice you have regarding sites and accommodations. I appreciate it!!!

kidslovemom

Hi everyone!
Here is my very late Trip Report! We had a fabulous journey through Europe! What a great adventure! 2 adults: 39, 39 and 2 children 10, 8. August 22-Sept. 5
Day 1: Fly out, rush, rush, rush, to sit on the tarmac x 4 hours! Ugh, but happy to be on our way eventually and scored an extra seat next to us!
Day 2: Arrived in Zurich and easily found the train to our friend's apartment in Clarens, Switzerland, right on the beautiful Lake Geneva! Fabulous! It was a 3 hour train ride and we figured out eventually that we were in 2nd class and with the passes we bought in advance, we were supposed to be in 1st, so we moved to get more room. Also, quickly learned that the routes are not on the side of the wall of the train like a NYC subway, so you have to know the departure time before you board so that you know when you should be getting off if you can't understand the conductor. Thank goodness for the internet, it made all of our travels so much easier! Arrived in Montreux. Our friends picked us up at the station and we walked along the Promenade of Lake Geneva. Kids used the skate park right on the water and had ice cream, so they were happy! Our friends made a great raclet meal which was fabulous out on their open window deck looking out over Lake Geneva.
Day 3: Chateau de Chillon tour, lunch in Montreux and using the bus system (easy but you need change or a residents card). Kids enjoyed swimming in the lake (it was freezing!) Relaxing and soaking up the culture of Switzerland! Took a funicular in Vevey to dinner at the top of the mountain. Parents had fondue and wine, kids had huge ice cream sundaes and played on the playground next door while we ate. The view is amazing!
Day 4: We decided to go to the Glacier 3000 coaster in Gstaad. We took the scenic train up to a town nearby, then a bus into winding roads with school children heading home for lunch. Then a cable car, then a funicular to finally get to the top to ride the coaster. It was so much fun, but it was our first experience with Swiss folks annoyed that we didn't speak French well. There was a miscommunication and the Swiss woman working there became really rude. Oh well, her issue! We decided to eat lunch at the top and wound up missing the local bus back to the train station which would have put us back about 2 hours except my friend has an I Phone and was able to call for a taxi. Brilliance. I would not go to Europe without one! I have an I Pad which I used in the hotels at night (it doesn't have constant internet service), but I would have an I Phone the next time we go. So we went all the way back home and it all worked out great.

More to come!