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Switzerland and Italy trip - need some help!

Switzerland and Italy trip - need some help!

Old Mar 10th, 2010, 07:04 AM
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Switzerland and Italy trip - need some help!

Hi everyone,
My husband and I will be celebrating our 10th wedding anniversary this year and have just booked a trip to Switzerland and Italy!! We're flying from Chicago to Zurich on May 23rd (arriving May 24th), and our plan (at a high level) is to spend the first 5 days in and around Zurich - so we'll be going to Interlaken, Mt Titlis, Jhungfrau etc..doing all the touristy things, but coming back to our hotel in Zurich every night - mainly because our hotel stay in Zurich is free - all covered by reward points.
We're also planning on renting a car - although not completely certain yet since we've had a few friends tell us that trains are better. So we'll be staying in Zurich from Mon. May 24th and leaving on Sat, May 29th. Would love to squeeze in the Glacier Express journey during this week.
Our next destination is Venice and we have booked 2 nights there i.e. Sat. May 29th and Sun. May 30th.
From there, we would like to go to Florence and have made a reservation for 2 nights – Mon. May 31st and Tues. June 1st. We fly out of Florence (to Chicago) on June 2nd.

Even though we have confirmed our hotel and airfare bookings, we still need help with a few things and would really appreciate some guidance –
 Any thoughts on car rental vs. taking local transportation while in Zurich?
 Would love to do a scenic train ride thru the Alps - Glacier Express is all I’ve read about; open to other suggestions.
 Would also like to visit St Moritz. But not sure how to fit in everything. Should we make it a day trip and probably take a train from Zurich to St Moritz and hang out for a couple hrs? Then take some train ride – maybe the Glacier express…?
 How do we get to Venice from Zurich? I prefer flying, because I’d much rather reach there faster and take our time exploring the city
 How do we get to Florence from Venice? Can someone recommend websites where we can find cheap airline deals?
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Old Mar 10th, 2010, 07:42 AM
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Hi smetha,

I'll try to respond to a few of your questions --

Yes, trains in Switzerland go everywhere and are convenient and FUN. We Americans rarely get the opportunity to enjoy a real world-class rail experience, so you owe it to yourself to give it a try. Usually folks who try the trains are devoted converts!!

Some other factors -- trains run from city center to city center or destination, with no getting lost, no traffic jams, no accidents on the highway, no worries about having wine with lunch, etc. Also, parking is expensive and difficult to find, particularly in cities. Some of the sweetest mountain villages don't even allow cars, and none of the mountaintops do. So it really truly is more convenient to use the trains.

(Plus it's more green to use the trains, so you'll leave the beautiful Alps as clean and pretty as they were when you arrived, yaaay!)

If you want to research your train trips, you can use the Swiss rail site at

www.rail.ch

I'm not sure how much you've researched the scenic train routes. The Glacier Express is eight hours long, which in my opinion is far too much of a good thing. It runs from Chur in the eastern part of the country to Zermatt in the western part of the country. If you did it, you would first have to go from Zürich to one end, then take the eight hour trip, then get from that end back to Zürich again -- and all of that would mean about 10-12 hours inside a closed up moving box.

I think that, if you're like most folks, you'll find just about every train ride up to the peaks or through the peaks will be scenic enough. There is no need to ride an entire day just for this marketed trip.

I also think it's too much of a stretch to get to Interlaken and the Jungfrau region for a day-trip; again, we're talking about ten hours or more inside a closed, moving box.

Luzern is less than an hour from Zürich, and it is surrounded by mountains -- so a better plan would be to spend all the time you can there. I personally think it's far better to spend your days outside with the wind in your hair and the mountain views right in your face! I always advise folks to spend as much time with their feet on the mountains rather than just riding by them. If you'd like to research these, take a look at

www.rigi.ch
www.pilatus.ch
www.titlis.ch

If you could be persuaded to move your base to the Jungfrau area, even for a single night, then it would make more sense to see it.

Hope you are enjoying the planning -- almost as much fun as being there!

s
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Old Mar 10th, 2010, 08:21 AM
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I would dtich the car in Switzerland and rent it in Italy and rely on the superb Swiss public transit to get around in this Alpine land - in the Jungfrau Region cars cannot even be driven to some of the nicest places.
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Old Mar 10th, 2010, 08:41 AM
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Except that it's usually much cheaper to rent the car in Switzerland than in Italy.

We just got good airfare from Paris to Lisbon on www.lastminutetravel.com. We've used them many times over the years and they are reputable. Also, try www.kayak.com and www.mobissimo.com.
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Old Mar 10th, 2010, 09:09 AM
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Travel between Venice and Florence by train is quick and easy--3 hours city center to city center. (You would spend more time than that if flying when you add in traveling to the airport and security check-ins.)

Here is the official Italian train site. You want to travel from Venezia SL (Santa Lucia) to Firenze SMN (Santa Maria Novella).

http://trenitalia.it/homepage_en.html
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Old Mar 10th, 2010, 09:27 AM
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Staying all your nights in Zurich is going to limit you or wear you out...

We live in Zurich and train around the country quite a bit but we don't have jet lag...

I suggest you re-think the Zurich plan and opt for a few days in Zurich, then perhaps 2 nights elsewhere en route to Italy (take the Bernina Express instead of the Glacier Express and you can pick up the trains to Italy in Turano.) The Bernina Express from Pontresina to Turano is spectacular...

Just a thought...

gruezi
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Old Mar 10th, 2010, 09:29 AM
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Trying to see all those things from Zuich is NOT a good idea. they're too far away to make really easy daytrips (esp up the Jungfrau). And for the latter you need to call in the am to determine conditions at the peak - often socked in by clouds and it maytake several days before one is clear enough to make the cost worthwhile.

Florence to Venice is only a couple of hours on the train - air would be just silly.

Train Venice to Zurich can be under 7 hours - not much more time than flying - when you consider all the hassle to/at/from airports - and much more confortble with some pretty views.
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Old Mar 10th, 2010, 09:36 AM
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http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-in-5-days.cfm

my trip report on a 5 day tour - Zurich to the Engadin to Milan...perhaps will give you some ideas...

I love the Berner Oberland and would try to get there (this is not in this report but I have written a short report here on Fodors about a weekend there... )
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Old Mar 10th, 2010, 11:26 AM
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Is your cost-benefit trade off strictly determined by the cost? If the cost is the overriding concern, you probably come ahead by staying in Zurich, but you are consuming a lot of "time" in return. The train fare in Switzerland is not cheap, either.

Are you planning to go up to the top of Jungfrau? Even on a "clear" day, the usual strategy is to catch as early train as possible before the clouds roll in. Doing such trip is not practical from Zurich.
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Old Mar 10th, 2010, 11:30 AM
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Not practical but certainly possible.

Just make sure you understand you are going to be on the train a lot. If you don't mind, then go for it.
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Old Mar 10th, 2010, 11:45 AM
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Except that it's usually much cheaper to rent the car in Switzerland than in Italy.>

then IMO rent it at a Swiss-Italian border town like Lugano or Chiasso

Swiss trains are fantastic IMO and the Swiss Pass is a real bargain, covering nearly all transports in the country - trains, lake boats (like those on Lake Zurich), postal buses - even city trams and buses as well as giving free entry to over 400 museums and tourist sights - Zurich has some nice ones. consecutive-day passes are the best bargains if they comport to your time there - coming only in 4-, 8- 15 and longer consecutive day periods. Otherwise the 3-day Flexipass is often the best (flexi means over a one-month period - use a day -calendar day - here then one a few days later, etc.)
And in between the 1st and 3rd unlimited travel day you get 50% off practically everything that moves in Switzerland - except cows. For loads on Swiss trains and passes, etc i always highlight these superb info-laden sites - www.swisstravelsystem.ch; www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com - download on the latter their free (and superb IMO) European Planning & Rail Guide that has a chapter on Switzerland by rail - itineraries, maps, etc. A problem with driving in Switzerland - besides neat Alpine places being off-limits to private cars is that the driving can rarely take in the great scenery - having to keep his/her eyes on the road!
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Old Mar 10th, 2010, 01:07 PM
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Wow! First of, thanks to everyone for their time in responding to my questions! Its my first posting, and I'm already loving this website!
So, based on everyone's responses - its helped me decide a couple of things:
1. car rental in Zurich is out- am now looking fwd to experiencing the railway system in switzerland.
2. Our initial excitement of doing the Glacier express is slowly fading - dont think either one of us can get thru 8 hrs sitting in a train, no matter how pretty everything is!Especially since we'll be riding the train a lot anyways..my husband has pretty much said 'no way'!
3. no sense flying from Venice to Florence..so thank you for suggesting this, and will look into the train ride info.

Since we're going without the kids, I think we should be able to cover quite a bit. And me and my husband are the types who make the most of any trip - we try and cover most of the recommended places..in fact, we come back more tired from a vacation (and prob need another one!). But we still love it.. So I'm hoping that the first 3-4 days in Zurich, we can cover trips to Jungfrau, Luzerne etc..

How about I cancel my stay in Zurich for the last night (Fri May 28th), and instead go somewhere en route to Italy (like one of you suggested)?? Doing the The Bernina Express sounds great...Can we got to st Moritz first (from Zurich), check out the city - dont think I can afford a hotel there though! So where can I go after St Moritz to spend the night? and perhaps take the Bernina Express the next day ..although I would need help figuring out what time I would reach Turano and then catch the train to Venice..I'd really like to be in Venice by Sat afternoon to make it worthwhile..since we're in Venice only for the weekend. I know its an aggressive plan, but what the heck - dont get to go to Europe that often!
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Old Mar 10th, 2010, 03:26 PM
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You should stay in the Berner Oberland to see the Jungfrau, not Zurich.
Instead of staying in St. Mortiz, book a hotel in nearby Pontresina, a charming town.
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Old Mar 10th, 2010, 07:40 PM
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Hmm so what I'm hearing is - maybe spend the first few days staying in Zurich (say 3 nights - Mon thru Wed). While we're there, we can make trips to Luzern (mt rigi etc..) and perhaps Engelberg (mt titlis).

And then leave for Jungfrau on Thurs morning (hopefully its a clear day), and try spending Thurs night at Interlaken.

Then on Fri, leave for St Moritz.Looks like its about 4-5 hrs from Interlaken?? So say we reach St Moritz mid afternoon, check it out and then head out to Pontresina. Stay there Fri night.

Finally on Sat, we take the Bernina Express from Pontresina to Turano. And then catch a train to Venice. I was shocked to see that the total time for Pontresina to Turano to Venice would be around 12 hrs?? If thats the case, I think we may just skip the whole Bernina Express idea..From St Moritz on Fri, we'll just go back to Zurich and stay there - then catch a flight to Venice on Sat.

Any thoughts?
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Old Mar 10th, 2010, 08:44 PM
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Hi again,

I wonder where you are getting your train information from? Maybe it's a spelling error?

The trip from Pontresina to Venice via Tirano (note spelling!) takes from 8h30 to 9h30 according to the SBB site I gave you above.

I personally don't like one- and two-night stays because you lose too much "outside" time with the packing up and checking out, then checking in and unpacking chores. So for that reason, I would maybe go from the airport directly to Luzern (about an hour by direct train) and stay maybe two nights, then go on to Pontresina and stay for four or five nights. Pontresina is a great choice for this area, by the way, and you may want to also investigate Sils or Silvaplan, which sit right on a lake. You can investigate this area at one site,

www.engadin.stmoritz.ch

And here is a link to a friend's travel pages on this area:

http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/4166c/a88f9/


And then go onward to Tirano on the Bernina Express for your Italian portion.

I also want to re-post what someone on these boards said many years ago: the Berner Oberland doesn't have the best mountains, just the best PR! So don't feel that you must see the Jungfrau region. It IS a great introduction to the country because of its great infrastructure and its position, but if it doesn't fit well into your itinerary, you can drop it without a qualm, I think.

Isn't this fun? I love the planning!

s
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Old Mar 11th, 2010, 06:50 AM
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Finally on Sat, we take the Bernina Express from Pontresina to Turano. And then catch a train to Venice. I was shocked to see that the total time for Pontresina to Turano to Venice would be around 12 hrs?? If thats the case, I think we may just skip the whole Bernina Express idea..From St Moritz on Fri, we'll just go back to Zurich and stay there - then catch a flight to Venice on Sat.>

Well at least take the absolute highlight stretch of the Bernina Express - to me by far the most dramatically scenic and thrilling train ride in Switzerland if not all of Europe. - take it just a bit more than an hour up to the summit at Alp Grum and Berni Ospizio Bernina and Alp Grum - both about only 15 miles from St Moritz/Pontresina - and get off, perhaps due to popular walk around the glacier lake to the glacier and back to the train and back to Pontresina/St Moritz.

I really see no reason to come to St Moritz area for just one day unless it is to do the Bernina Express IMO.
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Old Mar 11th, 2010, 07:32 AM
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Going to Europe for 9th time in May. We always rent a car. I have found it is a lot more expensive to rent a car in Italy if that is your pick up country. They make you pay for insurance. The last 6 trips I have rented the car in Zurich and dropped it off in Milan. I have found this to be the cheapest rental. We do rent the car for a month each trip.
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Old Mar 12th, 2010, 12:01 PM
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Have been thinking about all the train travel we'll be doing from Zurich! Wish we had more vacation days to squeeze in, unfortunately it will have to be 5 days in Switzerland and the remainng 4 in Venice/Florence.

I think we may just rent a car at least for the first 4 days in Zurich. Mon thru Wed we'll drive down from our Zurich hotel to check out Luzern and Engelberg. On Thurs, we'll drive down to St Moritz and give up the rental. Stay Thurs night at Pontresina. And on Fri, start off early in the morning and do the Bernina Express to Tirano; and catch the connecting train to Venice.

We'll reach Venice late Fri evening, which means I may have to cancel 1 hotel night in Zurich and book in Venice instead. Since we just have the weekend in Venice, I dont want to spend a lot of time travelling and reaching there late on Sat. Would make sense to reach there Fri night and start fresh on Sat..

Confusing, but still fun planning!!
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Old Mar 14th, 2010, 01:29 AM
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>Mon thru Wed we'll drive down from our Zurich hotel to check out Luzern and Engelberg.

Believe me, you don't want to drive from Zürich to Luzern. It is longer and more annoying than the train, and then you have to look for the parking.
Same for Engelberg - I don't understand though why you don't just base yourself in Luzern for your itinerary.
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Old Mar 14th, 2010, 08:34 AM
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I humbly disagree with Swandav on the Jungfrau region.... It is my favorite area of Switzerland - gorgeous views and hikes... I also love the Engadin (certainly NOT St. Moritz which is way overhyped) but find Murren and Wengen more dramatic.

I would rate it a must see....

And, I live in Zurich and can't emphasize enough how I would not rent a car... I have a car and never take it anywhere but to the market.

gruezi
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