Swiss train travel - why so costly?
Dec 20th, 2013, 02:57 PM
#1
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Swiss train travel - why so costly?
The Swiss love their railways, and they are willing to pay dearly for them. On average the Swiss travel 2274 km (1413 miles) yearly, more than any other nation’s population.
Another record: By the end of 2016 (target date) the new St. Gotthard base tunnel - the lower-level tunnel through the St. Gotthard massif - should be finished and will be the world’s longest railway tunnel (57 km = 35 miles). Although top speed will be “only” 160 km (100 miles), a savings of 55 minutes is anticipated since far less climbing has to occur; max. elevation (between Erstfeld near the south end of Lake Lucerne and Biasca in the Ticino) will be 550 meters = 1800 ft above sea level.
The trip from Zürich to Milano will take about 2:40 hrs. Lugano will become a more prominent hub, once the Ceneri base tunnel will be open; Zürich-Lugano will take only 82 minutes!
The new tunnel will serve passenger trains every half hour, while the old tunnel higher up will still have passenger trains every hour.
The cost of this project is enormous, and it is only one of many; Switzerland’s topography with all the hills and the massive mountains poses severe challenges to the widening and improvement of the network; the Lötschberg base tunnel (34km = 21miles) is just one of several other such costly projects in recent years.
All this has to be paid for. That explains why you get sticker shock when you’re planning a train trip in Switzerland, and why it is wise to scope out all means of obtaining savings, at www.sbb.ch and at www.swisstravelsystem.com/en/home.html among other resources.
Another record: By the end of 2016 (target date) the new St. Gotthard base tunnel - the lower-level tunnel through the St. Gotthard massif - should be finished and will be the world’s longest railway tunnel (57 km = 35 miles). Although top speed will be “only” 160 km (100 miles), a savings of 55 minutes is anticipated since far less climbing has to occur; max. elevation (between Erstfeld near the south end of Lake Lucerne and Biasca in the Ticino) will be 550 meters = 1800 ft above sea level.
The trip from Zürich to Milano will take about 2:40 hrs. Lugano will become a more prominent hub, once the Ceneri base tunnel will be open; Zürich-Lugano will take only 82 minutes!
The new tunnel will serve passenger trains every half hour, while the old tunnel higher up will still have passenger trains every hour.
The cost of this project is enormous, and it is only one of many; Switzerland’s topography with all the hills and the massive mountains poses severe challenges to the widening and improvement of the network; the Lötschberg base tunnel (34km = 21miles) is just one of several other such costly projects in recent years.
All this has to be paid for. That explains why you get sticker shock when you’re planning a train trip in Switzerland, and why it is wise to scope out all means of obtaining savings, at www.sbb.ch and at www.swisstravelsystem.com/en/home.html among other resources.
Dec 20th, 2013, 07:57 PM
#3
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Not sticker shock to me. When we lived in the UK, I interviewed for some jobs in London. The annual cost of the standard (second) class commute between Maidenhead and London was close to the cost as an annual first class GAO pass for ALL of Switzerland. And my job in Switzerland pays a lot more than I could have hoped for in the UK, so the percentage of my budget spent on commuting is actually much less. (esp since I opted for the cantonal pass that's only 70 francs a month instead of a national GAO)
Dec 20th, 2013, 09:33 PM
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Thanks so much, michelhuebeli, for posting this information! Yes, I agree with Dukey1 and WeisserTee above that the Swiss rail network is amazingly efficient and convenient (and fun!!) -- but many others have balked at the expense. And it's always good to get the big picture, to know the history and the engineering of this great network.
Germany has a great rail network, but it's not as far-reaching and convenient as the Swiss.
s
Germany has a great rail network, but it's not as far-reaching and convenient as the Swiss.
s
Dec 21st, 2013, 04:20 AM
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the Swiss Pass is thus one of the great bargains around for anyone traveling around the country much - individual tickets may be expensive but the Swiss Pass can make train, bus and boat travel really cheap.
I do disagree that the German railway system is not as far-reaching as the Swiss - IME it is at least so and perhaps more - look at a rail map of Germany - lines going everywhere - at least as much as Switzerland IME.
I do disagree that the German railway system is not as far-reaching as the Swiss - IME it is at least so and perhaps more - look at a rail map of Germany - lines going everywhere - at least as much as Switzerland IME.
Dec 21st, 2013, 07:19 AM
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I once had the luck to be driving down the valley from Tasch when a road tunnel was due to break through.
Coming down the road I saw quite a few cars stopped at the side of the road and people standing looking at a rock face. On the roack face was painted a circle with two lines bisecting it at 90 degrees (think cross hairs in a rifle scope). It took me a couple of seconds to process the information and realize it was where a tunnel was expected to be and the people were looking at it in anticipation of seeing something.
So I pulled over and sure enough a few minutes later, the rock started to crumble and fall away right in the centre. I don't think the tip of the boring machine was more than an inch or two off the mark!
When it comes to digging tunnels, no one can beat the Swiss for expertise.
On another occassion I was driving from north to south and a few kilometres before reaching the Gotthard Tunnel, the exhaust on my newly acquired little classic sports car blew. it sounded like a tank on steroids. Fortunately, I still had time to pull off the road at the last exit before the tunnel and find a way to have the problem fixed.
If you break down in the tunnel, you are in serious trouble.
Coming down the road I saw quite a few cars stopped at the side of the road and people standing looking at a rock face. On the roack face was painted a circle with two lines bisecting it at 90 degrees (think cross hairs in a rifle scope). It took me a couple of seconds to process the information and realize it was where a tunnel was expected to be and the people were looking at it in anticipation of seeing something.
So I pulled over and sure enough a few minutes later, the rock started to crumble and fall away right in the centre. I don't think the tip of the boring machine was more than an inch or two off the mark!
When it comes to digging tunnels, no one can beat the Swiss for expertise.
On another occassion I was driving from north to south and a few kilometres before reaching the Gotthard Tunnel, the exhaust on my newly acquired little classic sports car blew. it sounded like a tank on steroids. Fortunately, I still had time to pull off the road at the last exit before the tunnel and find a way to have the problem fixed.
If you break down in the tunnel, you are in serious trouble.
Dec 21st, 2013, 07:28 AM
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For those shaking their head in disbelief at dulciusexasperis' adventure, wondering how that little classic sports car got to be in the St. Gotthard tunnel under discussion - let me hasten to add that there is a third tunnel going through the St. Gotthard that I didn't mention in my original post - the Strassentunnel - road tunnel. And - yes - you don't want to have a mishap - remember the fire in the Mont Blanc road tunnel in 1999?
Dec 21st, 2013, 08:38 AM
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Yes, Pal, Germany does have a great rail system, but the Swiss one is better. While most Swiss train connections will run 3 or even 4 times an hour, German ones will run maybe once or twice an hour. There are even some German towns without train stations any more. For example, I once stayed in a small town maybe 30 kms from Köln, and the town didn't have rail service. There was a bus connecting it to Köln, but it only ran about twice a day. It was a real shame, especially since the traffic around Köln was a real nightmare. I had to get a ride to a town with a rail station from my family.
s
s
Dec 21st, 2013, 09:25 AM
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Michel:
Are you sure that Zch - Lug will take only 82 min?
That would correspond to the NEAT project of 1992 with the Zimmerberg-Hirzel-Tunnel, the Rigiflanken-Tunnel and the new Axen-Tunnel as well as the new line between Giustizia and the Magadino plain and to a maximum speed of 200 km/h betwen Rigilehne and Vezia.
In the publication "NEAT - Questions and answers" from May 1992, the Federal Office of Transportation mentioned the journey time Zurich - Bellinzona with 1 hr 05 min and Zch - Milan with 2 hrs 10 min (via Galleria Monte Olimpino 2).
In the meantime, this project was killed by Minister Stich with the result that we will have only 2 extremely expensive base tunnels but no gain of capacity (the bottlenecks between Arth-Goldau and Altdorf as well as between Biasca Giustizia and Bellinzona will remain).
Therefore the journey time Zch - Lugano will most probably be higher than 82 min. Lugano - Milano can already be covered in less than 50 min nowadays (without detour via Como SG).
Are you sure that Zch - Lug will take only 82 min?
That would correspond to the NEAT project of 1992 with the Zimmerberg-Hirzel-Tunnel, the Rigiflanken-Tunnel and the new Axen-Tunnel as well as the new line between Giustizia and the Magadino plain and to a maximum speed of 200 km/h betwen Rigilehne and Vezia.
In the publication "NEAT - Questions and answers" from May 1992, the Federal Office of Transportation mentioned the journey time Zurich - Bellinzona with 1 hr 05 min and Zch - Milan with 2 hrs 10 min (via Galleria Monte Olimpino 2).
In the meantime, this project was killed by Minister Stich with the result that we will have only 2 extremely expensive base tunnels but no gain of capacity (the bottlenecks between Arth-Goldau and Altdorf as well as between Biasca Giustizia and Bellinzona will remain).
Therefore the journey time Zch - Lugano will most probably be higher than 82 min. Lugano - Milano can already be covered in less than 50 min nowadays (without detour via Como SG).
Dec 21st, 2013, 01:23 PM
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Soon all long-distance trains in Suisse will be in tunnels and no one will see the lovely Alpine landscapes - especially folks traversing the country from Germany to Italy - maybe they could put live cam pictures on tunnel walls to let folks below see what they are missing above!
Fruitngen to Visp now all in tunnel - previous main route - via Lotschberg old tunnel was one of the most dramatically scenic mainline rail lines in Europe - now on that route you'll just see the zigzagging white lines ubiquitously painted on train tunnel walls!
Folks can still take the old line but it takes about an hour longer and yes everyone is in a hurry these days. Domnage!
Fruitngen to Visp now all in tunnel - previous main route - via Lotschberg old tunnel was one of the most dramatically scenic mainline rail lines in Europe - now on that route you'll just see the zigzagging white lines ubiquitously painted on train tunnel walls!
Folks can still take the old line but it takes about an hour longer and yes everyone is in a hurry these days. Domnage!
Dec 21st, 2013, 01:27 PM
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82 minutes is what is projected for Zurich-Lugano once the Ceneri tunnel is finished - breakthrough by 2015, installations etc. by 2019. By then the current travel time of 50 minutes between Locarno and Lugano will be reduced to 22 minutes.
This highly informative brochure from 2011 says "under three hours for Zürich-Milano" and "about an hour and a half" for Zürich-Ticino - which could have meant Bellinzona - see http://www.alptransit.ch/fileadmin/d...huere_d_lq.pdf
Newer forecasts say 82 minutes explicitly for Zürich-Lugano.
Abwarten und Tee trinken. Qui vivra verra.
This highly informative brochure from 2011 says "under three hours for Zürich-Milano" and "about an hour and a half" for Zürich-Ticino - which could have meant Bellinzona - see http://www.alptransit.ch/fileadmin/d...huere_d_lq.pdf
Newer forecasts say 82 minutes explicitly for Zürich-Lugano.
Abwarten und Tee trinken. Qui vivra verra.
Dec 21st, 2013, 01:34 PM
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For those still curious - there is a website in English about the Gotthard and Ceneri projects:
www.alptransit.ch/en/home.html
www.alptransit.ch/en/home.html
Dec 22nd, 2013, 07:07 AM
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Michelhuebeli, are you forgetting the Gotthard tunnel fire of 2001?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/26/jonhenley1
PalenQ, you can still drive OVER the Gotthard Pass if you don't want to give up the scenery and nothing beats driving mountain roads in a sports car. Now if there were just a way to keep the other cars off the road, it would be perfect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOmnRVwmYwQ
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/26/jonhenley1
PalenQ, you can still drive OVER the Gotthard Pass if you don't want to give up the scenery and nothing beats driving mountain roads in a sports car. Now if there were just a way to keep the other cars off the road, it would be perfect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOmnRVwmYwQ
Dec 22nd, 2013, 07:41 AM
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And you can still take the more scenic rail route through the Lötschberg - see www.bls.ch/e/bahn/linie-express-loetsch.php
Nothing is lost - much is gained by these new projects.
Nothing is lost - much is gained by these new projects.
Dec 22nd, 2013, 07:41 AM
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Yes but I go by train and I suppose the old Gotthard train route, like the old Lotschberg train route, will remain open for local travel - not sure where the new tunnel begins on the north but I hope I can still see the Weisskirche three different times from a different direction each time as the train circles up a mountain - these scenes I think will be missed now with the new boring (bored?) tunnel!
I have driven over the Gotthard Pass years ago and found it fantastic - ditto to the Simplon Pass (which you can do by postal bus - not sure about Gotthard bu suppose so.
I have driven over the Gotthard Pass years ago and found it fantastic - ditto to the Simplon Pass (which you can do by postal bus - not sure about Gotthard bu suppose so.
Dec 22nd, 2013, 08:43 AM
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No, you cannot see the church in Wassen from the new rail line anymore.
Btw, re: cost - basically everyone I know in Switzerland has a Halbtax/Half Fare Card (or even GA), and it seems to me that the fares are calculated upon this fact. Anyone who doesn't - and just uses the railways/buses occasionally, like tourists e.g. - has to pay a hefty surcharge to the 'normal' fares, which makes public transportation seemingly so expensive in Switzerland.
Btw, re: cost - basically everyone I know in Switzerland has a Halbtax/Half Fare Card (or even GA), and it seems to me that the fares are calculated upon this fact. Anyone who doesn't - and just uses the railways/buses occasionally, like tourists e.g. - has to pay a hefty surcharge to the 'normal' fares, which makes public transportation seemingly so expensive in Switzerland.
Dec 22nd, 2013, 10:47 AM
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Palen: the new tunnel begins between Altdorf and Erstfeld, close to the motorway exit Erstfeld, (460 m above sea leel), 8 km south of the Southern end of Lake Lucerne (Urnersee) and ends at Pozzo Negro, close to the villages of Bodio and Personico (310 m above sea level), 4 km West of Biasca.
The church of Wassen is 11 1/2 km west of the axis of the new tunnel, at a altutude of 940 metres.
The trains via Wassen (change to Post bus to Sustenpass - Meiringen) - Goeschenen (train change for Andermatt - Glacier Express) - Airolo (change to Post bus to Nufenenpas - Grimselpass - Meiringen) - Faido will of course continue to run.
The church of Wassen is 11 1/2 km west of the axis of the new tunnel, at a altutude of 940 metres.
The trains via Wassen (change to Post bus to Sustenpass - Meiringen) - Goeschenen (train change for Andermatt - Glacier Express) - Airolo (change to Post bus to Nufenenpas - Grimselpass - Meiringen) - Faido will of course continue to run.
