Hi zatrams999,

I always use the Half Fare Card; it costs 110 chf and gives you half off practically everything that moves for one month. Every time I did the math, the HFC always came up as the most economical option for me.

However, it's difficult to say what will be best for you unless someone does the math --

s

I think the best option for you is to do the math and price your trips first and then decide whether or not which, if ANY pass is better.

We have no idea how many trips you will actually take and the more you use a pass the more economical it becomes.

Passes are good for discounts on some of those mountain trains in the BO; they do not cover the entire fare.

also consider the 3-day Swiss Flexipass - you get 3 unlimited travel days covered at 100% and in between the first and last day - the third day you get 50% off everything that moves in Switzerland - trains, buses, aerial gondolas, postal buses, lake boats, etc. (One exception Grindelwald/Wengen to Jungfraujoch is 25% off) - so once in the Berner Oberland use the 50% off aspect as many aerial gondolas would be only 50% off anyway - and then you will have your travels covered all the way to Zurich, saving the last day to do that. Would be cheaper all in all then an 8-day consecutive pass.

Half-Fare Cards - with these you have to know exactly what you are doing - with a Swiss Pass and I've used dozens of them and always felt they were a great deal for me at least - I always end up using it more than I expected - like in the Berner Oberland on a whim just hopping a lake boat from Interlaken on Lake Thun - in late afternoon just for a relaxing float with spectacular scenery all around.

Anyway check these great sites for great info on Swiss trains, passes, half-fare cards (and the Swiss Card which could well be a better deal for some than the Half-Fare Card because it gives you a trip from any border point or airport to any place in Switzerland and back to any airport or border point as well as 50% off everything for a one-month period just like the Half-Fare Card - anyway these superb IMo sites: http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id3.html; www.ricksteves.com and www.swisstravelsystem.com.

A value of a pass is you can just hop on any train, bus, boat anytime - no going to ticket windows no judging 'do I want to spend 50% to do this, etc.)

And when comparing pass prices to alternatives compare the cost of the pass in U S dollars if bought in the U S vs prices for exact same pass if bought in Switzerland (sold at most train stations) - prices for some reason the past several years have often been cheaper here than there - this is not always true so compare both - if no significant savings then just wait to buy once there. And also look for specials on Swiss Pass - if traveling after Sep 1 this year you can get a 2 for 1 deal on 4-day Swiss Passes (only - both consecutive days and flexipasses).

a 3-day Swiss Flexipass currently costs $237 p.p. on a Saverpass - prices for sales in Switzerland may be different

so if you take the 110 francs needed to buy the Half-Fare Card lets say that is about $120 to start - to get the card then you pay 50% off every trip you take on trains, boats, etc.

The difference being about $117 - so if you are not doing $117 worth of travel - the break even point the Half-Fare Card would be a better option perhaps - depending on whether even the Half-Fare Card is better than just buying regular tickets the whole way - but again unless you have travel plans set in concrete and know exactly what trains, boats, etc you will take and will take no more then it is easy to calculate but again I and others report that with unlimited travel days on a pass we tend to do more than we planned on - like again on a whim just decided to do a lake boat trip or if staying in Wengen to go down to Interlaken at night to the casino or supermarkets, etc. Or on the not unusual rainy day in this rather wet clime then say doing a day trip to Lucerne or Bern - cities that are more enjoyable in wet weather than hiking in the Berner Oberland then that type of unplanned travel is also a factor.

If going between Geneva and Interlaken you have two routes to chose from - the fastest route via Bern or the slightly slower route via the fabled Golden Pass rail route and the special Golden Pass train, which gives commentary en route and features spiffy domed panoramic observation cars - it takes a different route - right thru bucolic Alpine valleys the whole way vs the ho-hum scenery on the route via Bern. A Swiss Pass is valid the whole way on either route - when returning to Geneva perhaps take it then too if you take the direct route going to Interlaken.

Thank you very much for the input swandav2000, Dukey1 and PalenQ. I need to do an approximate cost analysis to see what pass I would be better off with. I shall look into the half fare card and swiss pass vs. just buying regular tickets. But I'm already biased now towards the half-fare card.

Another thing I need input on...

The ticket prices from Paris Gare de Lyon to Lausanne and Basel are fairly similar. I was looking at Rick Steves' book and looks like the Golden Pass train starts from Lausanne. Of course, time is short, and I cannot see everything I want to, but am I going to miss out a lot by not taking at least one of the scenic train rides? For folks who have done this train trip from Lausanne, what would you recommend?

Thank you for your help.

Hi again,

The Golden Pass starts from Montreux, which is about 30-40 minutes from Lausanne. The GP starts at Montreux then climbs through the Prealps to the beautiful areas of Gstaad and Rougemont and Zweisimmen, then climbs up to the Jungfrau area.

I personally would never spend time inside a train when I could be on a mountain somewhere, on a trail or in a mountaintop restaurant. There just is no comparison for the views and the experience!

However, if you have time for both -- if taking a scenic train won't take up your mountain time, then, yes, it is a worthwhile thing to do.

To get the GP route, you would use

From Montreux
To Interlaken Ost
Via Gstaad

It may be too much to come from Paris (aobut 4h) and then do the GP (about 3h) on the same day. Think about if you want to sit inside a train for about 8h on one day.

s

Hello swandav2000. Thank you for all the great information on this route.

Yes, I see what you're saying. Thing is, I feel that the day of travel from Paris to Murren is pretty much already shot anyways. And the regular journey already is about 7 hours or so.

Just looked at tgv-europe, Paris to Montreux is about the same price, but about 4.5 hours from Paris (Leaves Paris at 8:11 AM). I also looked up

From Montreux
To Interlaken Ost
Via Gstaad

That's like 3 hours and arrives at Interlaken at 4:50 PM for tgv-europe.

Still undecided.

For travel from Paris Gare de Lyon to Montreux or Basel, are the prices going to stay about the same or does it fluctuate a lot?

Hi again,

The prices will rise as you get closer to the date of travel. The discounted fares do sell out.

The prices for fares within Switzerland will stay the same.

s

Golden Pass don't track thru Gstaad I believe if getting off at Gstaad is your goal - have to change for Gstaad I believe off direct GP route Montreux to Interlaken. Not sure but think so.

If taking the Golden Pass this train is unique in that it has on it VIP seating - a handful of seats next to and around the train driver so you simulate driving the train yourself - down the tracks in front of you. These are first class but if you have a 2nd class pass or ticket then you can just pay an upgrade to ride in the seats which I believe are only on the portion Montreux to Zweisimmen but not sure (narrow gauge tracks end at Zweisimmen so first stage train cannot go thru on standard gauged tracks to Interlaken so always change trains there.

Thank you swandav2000 for providing some very helpful information about the Golden Pass route.
Looks like this will be a very scenic journey. Do you know if I have to stay on the same train all through the trip, or can I get off somewhere, spend some time, then get on another Golden Pass train to my destination?

Ok, so since prices from Paris to Montreux/Basel will increase, I'll need to get this part completed first.

Here is another thing I am considering for the 4th: how about if I rent a car for the day, picking it up in Montreux/Basel/Lausanne and return it to Interlaken the same night? That way, I get to spend as much time as I want in the places I want to stop and enjoy the scenery. It seems that I cannot use the car beyond Lauterbrunnen anyways, so a 1 day rental likely makes sense.

If i were to do this, i know i'll need to plan out a good route first. I will have a GPS with me. Are the road signs in English in Switzerland? Do you think this would be a doable plan?

Thank you for your help.

Hi again,

When you buy your ticket, it is good all day, so, yes, you can get on and off the train as often as you want. Just check the schedules before you go, and know what times you'll be able to continue your journey after each break.

I never ever recommend a car for Swiss travel. You'll be putting poison into the air that destroys the very things you came over to see. Since the train runs frequently and well, using a car just isn't necessary.

PalQ, Gstaad is directly on the route of the GP. It's Gruyeres that is a small detour (change in Montbovon).

s

Swandav2000, I appreciate your concerns about the environment. I am green conscious too.

I am only exploring options at this point. So don't get all stressed out And thanks for your input.

I'm not stressed out.

Thanks for your concern --

s

swandav2000 stressed out! Naw I've been reading her great insights into Switzerland for years now - always level headed and thoughtful and down to earth (except when talking about Interlaken!) - and I echo her advice about eschewing cars not only becuase the public transit is go great and cars cannot even take you to some of the country's alpine gems and yes also the green factor - Americans are often wed to cars, thinking gee without a car we can't see anything we want - we'd like to stop in small villages en route - something that sounds neat but once there is not something most folks do but gravitate towards the motorways - I have driven lots over local roads and they twist and are full of traffic and can be very frustrating to drive on due to the congestion that to me negates any romance - rather sit back and look out the window of trains - a driver in Switzerland rarely can ogle the great sites with their hands gripping the steering wheel and eyeballing an often sinuously curving traffic-filled two-lane road (off the maotorways, which well are motorways just like any motorway - not much fun).

So I agree 110% with swandav2000, IMO a Fodor treasure in her immense knowledge of the country, always given without attitude IMO!

Note the official Golden Pass trains do not roll as frequent as regular trains over that exact same rail route - GP trains can be full so you may not be able to hop on the next one if it is full - regular trains are never full IMO and if so you can still hop on - maybe you can on the official GP trains as well I do not know but suspect not - but as the nicest scenery on that route is between IME Montreux and Zweisimmen (by far) after that observation cars, etc do not matter that much and yes Gstaad is near the end of the most scenic part - get off the official GP there and then just hop the next train, GP or regional to Zweissimmen where you always have to change trains because of a difference in track gauge widths.

wowee, PalQ! Praise indeed from such a knowledgeable source!! Folks on this forum are so like families -- we have our disagreements and differences, but respect and support each other. I'm happy to be part of ir.

About the GP. I spent two weeks in Chateau d'Oex one year, and twice have spent a full week in Gstaad -- I would hop on the GP all the time. You do not *ever* need reservations, but you may find yourself standing in the aisles for 15 or 20 minutes between the busiest stations. There are always some unreserved seats in some of the wagons on all of the trains, even the GP. When it's busy (the one time I had to stand for 20 minutes was at lunchtime in August), you just have to stand, that's all.

s

Yes unlike the Glacier Express and some other specialty scenic Swiss tourist-oriented trains the Golden Pass does not require reservations, except for the VIP seats I believe. I once thought reservations for observation wagon on the first part between Montreux and Zweisimmen were required but I think not - suggested perhaps but not required so you can comfortably get on and off at will.

Some great input on here about the Golden Pass, will follow up on this. Thank you swandav2000 and PalenQ.

Re: Swiss Pass
---------------------

I priced my itinerary approximately...

CHF 510 - Full price
CHF 436 - Swiss Pass (170 + 266)
CHF 361 - Half Fare Card (251 + 110)

And, given that the fare from -

Wengen - Jungfraujoch (CHF 157 rt)

And

Murren - Schilthorn (CHF 86 rt? Murren LSMS-lsms to Schilthorn gives "station not found" on sbb.ch, so used Rick Steves' chart for pricing this; what am I doing wrong here?)

= CHF 243 Full Price,

The Half Fare Card makes sense. And almost every transportation during my stay gets to half price.

-----------------------------------

Three more questions:

1. Murren LSMS-sbm to Allmendhubel -- on sbb.ch says "station not found"; what am I doing wrong?

2. From Windersil to Schynige Platte -- is this 100% covered by Swiss Pass?

3. The Golden Pass train is also covered by Half Fare Card, is that correct?

---------------------------

I'll follow up about the Golden Pass train, but a quick logistics question in the meantime: if I have 1.5 hours at Montreux, will it be enough to visit the Chillon Castle? If not, how much time should I factor in for this?

Thanks so much for the help with my trip.

Hi again,

Yes, the GP is covered by the HFC (as is just about everything that moves). I personally always use the HFC for my travels in Switzerland.

Well, I personally don't think you'll have enough time to get to and enjoy Chillon castle in 90 minutes. The castle is about a 45-minute walk from Montreux, but you can get there by bus in about 15-20 minutes (walk to the bus stop, wait for the bus, get to the castle). Plan for the same to return. That leaves you only about an hour to tour the castle itself. I haven't done this in about 40 years, but I read recently that one should allow two hours to tour it.

Also, imo one of the best things to see in Montreux is the flowered lakeside promenade, so missing that would be a true shame. It will be a very tough decision, to choose between a little longer stay in Montreux and the Golden Pass.

s

I believe Schynige Platte is only covered 50% by a Swiss Pass and to me if I had never been there it would be relatively low on my list - not that it ain't great but other excursions IMO even greater if time is limited. I suppose if you are interested in teddy Bears or Alpine Gardens it could be a must - the famous Alpine Garden and tacky Teddy Bear Land tourist trap awaiting up top.

Thank you swandav2000 and PalenQ for the very helpful input.

It would be nice to spend a bit more time in Montreux. Given the time I have, I might only be able to pick one of the two places swandav2000 mentioned, and only get a cursory look.

PalenQ, I was planning to go to Schynige Platte for the hike to Daub Peak (a suggestion from Rick Steves' book) First would be too long, as folks advised here, so picked Daub peak. Zero interest in Teddy Bears.

Since I have three full days there:

Day 1: Schilthorn + 1 hike
Day 2: Jungfraujoch + 1 hike
Day 3: Lauterbrunnen waterfalls + hike from Schynige plate

Plan is, if I get bad weather on the first or second day, might use the third day instead to visit Jungfraujoch or Schilthorn.


Do you guys recommend taking the Golden Pass from Interlaken to Lucerne, do the regular trains cover the same route? Thanks for the input.

one addition to PalenQ:
Golden Pass don't track thru Gstaad I believe if getting off at Gstaad is your goal - have to change for Gstaad I believe off direct GP route Montreux to Interlaken. Not sure but think so --> isn't correct!

The Goldenpass Trains track directly through Rougemont-Saanen-Gstaad-Zweisimmen. In Zweisimmen you have to change for Interlaken. A short (or longer) stopp in one of the above mentioned villages is always worth the time.

Now I know how to spell Zweisimmen, assuming pb is referring to the same place where GP route passengers have to change trains. And thanks to the correction (as swandaav above also made). I thought I remembered years ago the train going to the north of Gstaad but I must be membering wrongly.

About the GP. I spent two weeks in Chateau d'Oex one year>

I spend two weeks one night in Chateau d'Oex - stopped overnight there - man talk about church mouse quiet and rolling up the sidewalks at night - basically seemed like a farming town - not bad and nice scenery all around - anyone wishing to stay in a place off the tourist path should check out Chateau d'Oex - don't recall seeing a chateau there though. Just a lot of large cow barns.

One weird thing to watch for when taking the GP rail route IME is when you cross from the French-speaking part of Switzerland into the German-speaking part - you need no map to tell you when you cross the invisible border - we found that just by looking at the woodpiles stacked outside houses we could tell.

The German part had wood stacked very evenly - each piece cut exactly to the same length so the ends of the piles were smooth

We could tell when, around Chateau d'Oex the wood piles all of a sudden appeared more haphazardly cut and stacked - so look at the wood piles to see which part of linguistic Switzerland you are in.

@PalenQ: You're a good observer. And as always both sides of the "coin" have there +/-.