JoMark

We'll be travelling across Switzerland by train in early July(using a Swiss travel Pass). The Swiss train service tells me there's no need to book except for special services. So my first question is, are we likely to experience full trains (there are 5 of us) and is it simply a case of walk on to the train with our passes in hand?
No one at SBB seems to be answering my questions about getting to Menaggio. Does anyone know if we can get from Pontresina to Menaggio on our Swiss Pass? I was quite surprised to see it included on the map until I remembered that it's part of the Bernina Express trip. Can we link into this or do I need to find an alternate route?

Intrepid1

On many train trips which occur wholly within Switzerland you cannot even make seat reservations and I have never needed them in all the trips I have made around the country.

For special trains such as the Glacier and Bernina the need for reservations, especially in Panorama coaches is understandable.

In general, I would say, yes you can get on the train passes in hand.

Steve_James

'Does anyone know if we can get from Pontresina to Menaggio on our Swiss Pass?'

JoMark - No personal experience, but as there is a Swiss bus service St Moritz-Lugano via Menaggio I would guess you can use the pass on this bus.

However, if you plan to use the Bernina Express train from Pontresina to Tirano, you would then have to use Italian public transport from Tirano (- train/ferry via Varenna or train/bus via Colico) to Menaggio. This would not be covered by any Swiss Pass.

Hope this helps ...

Steve

Ingo

Yes, you can get from Pontresina to Menaggio on Swiss Pass. BUT - you have to make reservations in advance which cost 10 Sfr.

There are two options to get from Pontresina to Menaggio (on Swiss Pass): either Bernina Express to Tirano and from there (Swiss) bus towards Lugano; or Palm Express bus from ST. Moritz to Lugano.

taxatty

I would definitely make advance reservations on the Bernina Express and GoldenPass trains if you want 1st class, as the times I have been on them in the summer they were full. Other than those, no problem just jumping on whatever train you want.

JoMark

Thank you all for this info, have now done the sums on the options you've suggested- (time and money) and come to the conclusion that we are better off taking the Italian train to Varenna rather than catching the bus to Menaggio. We are travelling by train over the Bernina pass route, but not on the Bernina Express. I'm hoping to get off the train somewhere between Pontresina and Tirano, (if the weather is good and I get up early enough), and catch the next train. Any recommendations for great views?

altamiro

I would suggest Alp Grüm, a bit down from the pass towards Tirano. It is on a ledge above a small lake, with the view to the glacier that feed the lake. You can have a lunch there and take the next train.

If you want to go on a short hike you can stop at Morteratsch. From there it is an easy 1 h walk to the mouth of the Morteratsch glacier, where the melt water shoots out of the glacier.

Ingo

Or get off at Ospizio Bernina, hike via restaurant Sassal Masone down to Alp Grüm (about 2 hours I think). Gorgeous views!

The best views from the Morteratsch area you'll have from a place called "Chünetta". It is just 20 min. walking from the train stop Morteratsch. You can overlook the Morteratsch glacier and see the stunning peaks above (Piz Palü, Bellavista, Fortezza crest).

enzian

It sounds like your concern about reservations on Swiss trains is because of the group size. I have taken our family group (ranging from 7 to 9 people) on trains all around the Berner Oberland area and never had a problem finding seats, even in August. This was in second class on the regional trains (which don't even take reservations). Just get on with your pass---but make sure you write in the date first!

PalQ

Yes as Mr. Ingo says you can get to Menaggio from either St Moritz or or Tirano by Swiss postal bus, valid with your Swiss Pass but requiring reservations - both these buses stop in Menaggio - the much more dramatic bus ride is from St Moritz via a gorgeous Alpine route to Menaggio - the bus from tirano to Menaggio/Lugano is not nearly so scenic, until the Menaggio area where they both go along lovely Lake Lugano. And the walk between Ospizio Bernina and Alp Grum stations i also second Mr. Ingo's advice on it being a great walk - the highlight area of the Bernina Pass route. Though you're taking regular trains that don't require reservations on the Bernina Pass route for bus or specialty train reservations or Swiss Passes or info on them i always recommend BETS (800-441-2387) as they are Swiss rail experts - www.budgeteuropetravel.com and on the home page request their free European Planning & Rail Guide that has an excellent chapter on Swiss trains and a special box on the Bernina Pass route with info on where to get off for best scenery, etc. In my opinion the Bernina Pass rail route (often called the Bernina Express route - but the official express trains run but a few times a day whereas regular trains run hourly - in summer regular trains have open-air cars on some service that are thrilling to sit in - much better than so-called panoramic Observation cars) anyway this route is my top scenic rail ride in Europe and i've taken nearly all i think. A tremendously scenic train - much much more scenic than the much ballyhooed Glacier Express!

PalQ

The Lugano-Menaggio-St Moritz bus has been called the Palm Express in the past and may still be. It's also called the Majola Pass service, after the dramatic boulder-strewn pass it traverses not long before St Moritz. The bus only leaves once a day from St Moritz - 12:20pm currently i believe and once a day from Lugano, around 10am - takes 2 h 45 mins St. Moritz-Mennagio.

JoMark

Thanks once again- it was because of this site that I decided on the Bernina pass route to Italy, and to pause at Pontresina for the night.
Now I have a few different options for walks , (thank you Altomiro and Ingo), depending on how our group is going. And yes Enzian I was concerned about 5 of us needing seats, so I feel reassured by your comments re:travelling in August. Unfortunately PalQ, BETS will only send that publication within the states, and Australia doesn't qualify. Do you happen to know if there's a way to tell if a train service has open air carriages? To quote my teenagers, that sounds "awesome". As Queenslanders, majestic, glacial scenery is a much anticipated experience- the advice I've received has really been helpful.

Intrepid1

You could look in a Thomas Cook Timetable but I don't think any of the trains you are liable to take have them..the closest thing may be the Panorama Coaches with their huge windows but you wouldn't find those on regular services.

Re your train trip to Varenna. Be ready to get off the train immediately once it reaches Varenna-Esino (the actual name of the station) as the trains, notoriuosly, don;t stop there for very long.

There will probably be taxis meeting your train but if you have rolling luggage be aware that the ferry dock is less than a 10-minute walk from the RR station and the route is all downhill.

There is a ticket booth at the ferry dock (directly across from the hotel-restaurant) where you can buy your tickets. Some of the ferries over to Menaggio stop in Bellagio first.

Where are you staying in Menaggio?

ilana25841

I second the recommendation for www.budgeteuropetravel.com- you can also call the number on their website- I found the gentleman I spoke with (left a message, prompt call back) very knowledgable, as opposed to the places you can call and you can picture the person, who has never left the cubicle, reading info off a screen. The man I spoke with loves train travel in Europe and was a great resource. Good luck.

PalQ

JoMark: I've been on the Bernina Pass route several times and have ridden in open-air cars - these are basically platforms with rails - i've asked about them and they said in summer about every other train has them - but not the official Bernina Express which has enclosed Panorama cars. To me the open-air cars were a thrill, better than sitting next to stuffed shirt tourists in the Panorama cars. And the ones i've seen take on an atmosphere of their own with gleeful shouts, etc. as a comraderie develops like on a roller-coaster. I'm not sure there is any method to which trains will have them but if you're in St Moritz ask the station if they know.
The only other similar open-air cars i've been on is on the Petit Train Jeune - the Little Yellow Train that runs thru the French Pyrenees near Perpignan to La Tour de Carol.
the open-air cars are second-class probably because the seats are just wooden benches. I still remember the open-air ride as one of the thrills of my years of European rail travel.

Intrepid1

You cannot get any better answer than from someone who has actually RIDDEN in those cars so I was obviously incorrect and this is good information to know....thanks, PalQ.

Ingo

PalQ - exactly my thoughts!

Here is another link for you: www.fahrplanfelder.ch (English version available). On this website you find all the Swiss train timetables as pdf-downloads. Search for Pontresina or the timetable field "950", which is the St. Moritz-Tirano route.

I found out that not many trains have these open panoramic cars. These trains do:
- Dep. 13.40 from Tirano
- Dep. 11.45 and 14.45 from St. Moritz

Please note that the open panoramic cars run only between St. Moritz and Poschiavo.

Intrepid1

Excuse, me PalQ, but not everyone who sits in a Panorama Car is a "stuffed shirt"...usually you don't deal in generalizations and as a travel writer I thought you might know better...

PalQ

Yes Intrepid1 i agree with you that that was a very poor choice of words, especially since i've been one of those stuffed shirts at times. I should have said senior citizens dressed in shirt and ties - formal attire - the few times i've ridden in the official Bernina, Glacier Expresses the tour groups filling up the first class cars were mainly elderly Germans it seems with shirt and ties and all seats were full - no wiggle room like you and i like to jump back and forth to catch scenes from the other side of the train. It's the formality of the situation that i lament, not the people themselves. Yes i regret my choice of words and you rightly take me to the wood shed. Sincerely and regretfully.

enzian

One of my Switzerland guidebooks has a photo of the open panaromic cars in a train on its way to Tirano---it looks wonderful---a lake in the foreground, with a glacier behind. I hope you can do this, JoMark---what a change from Queensland!