Swiss Burial/Grave Customs - ?

Old Apr 30th, 2016, 05:01 AM
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Swiss Burial/Grave Customs - ?

Recent trip prompted this question again...
When visiting a cemetary above Rapperswil, in the small parish churchyard, I came across these prominently posted signs:

Graeberraeumung:
ab dem 29. August werden folgenden Graeber aufgehoben:
Urnengraeber 1996-2001.....

So, after a specified period of time (here 15-20 years), the graves are 'turned over' for the next group of potential occupants.
The notice went on to state that those decorations, pictures, crosses and adornments not claimed by family would be removed and disposed of by cemetary staff.
This notice was also posted in an area occupied by deceased children and infants...

My question would be: is the urn with remains likewise removed? And placed where?
I would have to surmise that this is common practice, as the cemetaries I've visited in Switzerland and Germany tend to be quite compact.

So what we know in the US as a 'final resting place' is not necessarily..?

What about families that have ceased visiting the gravesite and miss the notice? Perhaps the same weight is not placed on visiting the gravesite for years overseas?

And finally, is cremation the standard practice in Sw & Germany?

But I would have thought that the period of occupancy would have been longer...?

Not meaning to start a discussion of burial VALUES, just really curious as to customs?
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Old Apr 30th, 2016, 05:19 AM
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It is certainly the custom in the Netherlands to clear a grave after a period of years. You can rent one, normally for 20 years. A family grave is normally rented for between 30 and forty years , depending on the rules of the town, but can be rented for periods of 1 years after that. When the grave is cleared the remains go into a communal grave, sometimes in separate boxes, but not normally.

There just isn't the land area to have it taken up with dead people.
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Old Apr 30th, 2016, 05:31 AM
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While I enjoy wandering around old cemeteries, it is much more sensible, especially with the growth of populations, to opt for cremation and scattering the ashes. ("Dust to dust, ashes to ashes...)
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Old Apr 30th, 2016, 05:47 AM
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Yes, I agree that far too much space is dedicated to sweeping lawn type cemetaries in the US-which is not practical given limited land in Europe.

But I hadn't known that Turnaround Time could be so short. Do families ever request the cremated remains/urns?
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Old Apr 30th, 2016, 06:17 AM
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My wife is a cemetary manager in Germany, so I can tell about the customs and regulations here.

Firstly, we have basically four types of cemetaries:

1. Municipal cemetaries.
2. Cemetaries of the Catholic Church.
3. Cemetaries of the Protestant Church.
4. Jewish cemetaries.

Of course, practices are different and the owner of the cemetaries makes the regulations. And these can differ between communities and municipalities. So, a lot of variation. However, there are some common customs.

>>My question would be: is the urn with remains likewise removed? And placed where?>I would have to surmise that this is common practice, as the cemetaries I've visited in Switzerland and Germany tend to be quite compact.>So what we know in the US as a 'final resting place' is not necessarily..?>What about families that have ceased visiting the gravesite and miss the notice? Perhaps the same weight is not placed on visiting the gravesite for years overseas?>And finally, is cremation the standard practice in Sw & Germany?>But I would have thought that the period of occupancy would have been longer...?
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Old Apr 30th, 2016, 06:34 AM
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Thank you traveler...
in the same vein, what happens after a death?
Here in the US it is often customary to have a gathering at a funeral home +/- a "viewing" IF the body has been embalmed. Primarily to console the family and recall the deceased.
Dies such an institution, I.e. funeral home/services exist in Sw/Germany?
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Old Apr 30th, 2016, 06:37 AM
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Cremation is increasingly normal here in the Netherlands. You can bury the ashes, have them placed in a columbarium, scattered at the crematorium in the garden of remembrance, or pretty much anywhere else you want. Scattering from an aircraft, launching them in a firework, having a tattoo with them or a piece of jewellery made including some ash are all possible.

Here you can also be buried in your own back garden with some restrictions, or in a "natuurbegraafplaats" - a piece of woodland where you are buried without a coffin, or in maybe a willow coffin, and without any grave markers. They do not clear the graves in such a cemetery, but it is an expensive option. Ashes can also be interred there, but only in an organic container that will rot down.

Some families continue to pay for graves after the initial period but most don't. It is too expensive, and usually the need to visit (and maintain!) the grave has long passed by the time clearance begins.

I shall be cremated, unless there is a more environmentally friendly method by the time I die.
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Old Apr 30th, 2016, 06:48 AM
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Oh, I like that idea of going out with a bang on top of a firework rocket, Hetismij! Currently my will has me being scattered at sea from the deck of a sailing vessel. Perhaps I will change that.
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Old Apr 30th, 2016, 09:41 AM
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So there is nothing like here where you buy your cemetery plot and the family keeps it long-term?

(My grandfather died young in an accident - in 1944 - and they bought the family grave - for 9 people - then. Now, in addition to him it holds my grandmother, 2 uncles and both my parents. Original plan was I and my B and his wife would use it when our time comes. But since my DH has a large family grave I will probably go there with him. We generally visit the cemetery once a year - often many family members together - to remember those who have passed on, usually with a group lunch afterwards.

Since we are Catholic (except my dad, but the church didn't know) cremation is not the norm.

Also at funerals for those who served in the military the local armed forces base sends an honor guard to play Taps (for my dad we had a marine and a sailor) and then do a ceremonial folding of an American flag large enough to cover the casket, which is presented to the widow or closest relative. Very beautiful and moving that their country still remembers 64 years after the war ended.
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Old Apr 30th, 2016, 11:04 AM
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Interesting to learn.
I am Catholic also.
The church fully permits cremation nowadays...

So, if the family knows that the cremains WILL be removed after a specified period of time, I wonder if cremation urns are still so expensive or 'shopped for', as is customary in the US...?
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Old Apr 30th, 2016, 11:51 AM
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Grave rental is, I believe, still practiced in the old cemeteries in New Orleans. The term used to be seven years, renewable as long as anyone renewed.

Japan and perhaps other countries used to bury people standing up to save space, but this has doubtless been superseded by cremation.
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Old Apr 30th, 2016, 12:09 PM
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Here in UK, 'reuse' of burial plots isn't normally permitted by law (1857 Burial Act), so the departed can be left in peace. When a cemetery is officially closed, where no new burials can be carried out because of lack of space, after a statutory procedure and notification of relatives, while remains are left undisturbed, headstones and borders can be removed and it can become a park or public space. In London, where lack of burial space is a serious problem, authorities can reuse graves in limited circumstances.
Read http://researchbriefings.files.parli...60/SN04060.pdf
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Old Apr 30th, 2016, 12:59 PM
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Given that not all urns are buried yes urns can get expensive if you want them to sit on your mantelpiece. Usually urns that are buried are biodegradable.

Coffins too can be as expensive as you like, though there are rules on coffins for crematoria and for natural burials. You don't even need to have a coffin, you can use just a shroud.

Bodies are not completely embalmed here though a light embalming is allowed, especially with an open coffin (horror!).

A family plot is for a maximum of four bodies, often only two as it isn't always possible to dig deep enough without hitting water.
Where I live it is for two people, for twenty years, and can be extended in ten year periods, until such time as no one pays, or the space is needed. It costs €1464 for a private grave for 20 years, €319 for a general grave (where you are buried with a stranger)and is for only 10 years, with no extension possible.
An urn grave, for four urns, or a place in the columbarium for two urns, costs the same as a general grave and is given for ten years, but unlike the general grave that ten years can be extended.

The only exceptions are war cemeteries, and war graves in general cemeteries. They are never cleared. Oh and no doubt the grave of Prince Friso, which is in the churchyard next to his mother's palace, though I suppose he may be moved to Delft with the rest of the royals eventually, when the crypt has been extended.

My father was in the RAF in WW2, and the RAF association did attend his cremation and play the last post, because we asked them to, but I don't think it is normal for ex military in the UK to have any form of military funeral, especially when they served in wars long ago. Certainly not with all the flag folding and everything you have in America.
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Old Apr 30th, 2016, 01:13 PM
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In UK, if the deceased belonged to an ex-servicemen's association or local British Legion branch, they will normally be given a military-style funeral with lowering of flags, playing of the Last Post etc. Even if they didn't, relatives can ask and escort can sometimes be provided.
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Old Apr 30th, 2016, 01:14 PM
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My father served in the Royal Navy during WWII, and there was certainly nothing military about his funeral.
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Old Apr 30th, 2016, 01:45 PM
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hetismij2:
It is not uncommon here in the US to spend both a good bit of time and money selecting an urn 'beautiful/befitting enough' to hold remains of a loved one.....
While I have been through this process 'only' a few times, I have never seen a biodegradable urn offered!

In fact, the gravesite for an urn is lined with concrete slabs to be sure that the urn is impermeable to the elements for decades to come!
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Old Apr 30th, 2016, 02:18 PM
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In Italy, most burials are in burial niches above ground in multi-level structures, not terribly different from the arrangement in the catacombs.In urban areas, the graves can be 20 niches high. These niche graves are usually sold for a period of 40 years, and it can be renewed for another 40 years, at least once. I think the period is much longer in rural areas. I see graves in our local cemetery that are much older than 40 years.

Many families have private funeral plots or family chapels, but even in those, the burial is normally above ground. At our local cemetery, there is one small area reserved for people who wish to be actually buried in the ground. I think these private burial areas can be perpetual, because families keep adding new graves to them.

Italians, especially older people, are usually very assiduous at visiting the graves of their relatives, and putting fresh flowers there. (The niche graves have ledges and metal holders for vases). Many people go at least once a week, and I know people who visit the cemetery daily. November 2nd, All Souls Day in the Catholic calendar is a traditional day for visiting and sprucing up cemeteries. At that time, many people travel long distances to visit the cemeteries. Friends of ours originally from our town, but who have lived for years near Milan, always return here for that day. I've heard people say they don't want to move, because they wouldn't be near enough to the cemetery. A light is usually kept burning at the grave (not very environmentally friendly, I know.) If you're driving in Italy at night, you can see all the tiny lights burning in the cemeteries.

I find this interesting, because the ancient Romans were very big on visiting graves, and lighting little lanterns there. They also had a period in the year where it was traditional to visit the graves, and they also brought offerings of food and wine, and had a picnic lunch at the grave site.

Cremation is increasingly popular in Italy. As for Catholic sensibilities, it seems to have no bearing on this. We have a friend who is a monk in Glasgow, and he told us that more than half of the deceased in his parish choose to be cremated. In the cemetery we saw in Glasgow, the family often dedicates a memorial bench in the name of the cremated person (or persons, as it can be for a whole family, with all their names engraved on it). A lot of these benches had fresh flowers beside them, so apparently people visit them as they would visit a grave. Sometimes there's a compartment to contain the ashes. Maybe this is the custom throughout the UK. However, I never saw this in Ireland, not that I've been to many cemeteries there, just the ones my relatives are buried in.
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Old Apr 30th, 2016, 04:54 PM
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In the US a military component - not a full military cemetery with guns shot off - is available to every person who has served active duty. There are a number of military cemeteries around the country for use of deceased veterans who don;t have a family plot.

But the basic acknowledgement of service - taps and the flag folding - can be arranged for every veteran by the funeral director as long as you give at least 48 hour notice. It's one of the first things they ask when you go in to meet on the arrangements and select the casket.

So I suppose the costs are less then as well. When my mom died last year we did it VERY simply and the cost was about $14,000. Due to her age, 94, and the fact that many relatives were gone or too elderly to travel, we did only one day viewing (2-4 and 7 -9) but did get about 75 people. The funeral mass was the next morning, then we followed the hearse to the cemetery where the final prayers and flag ceremony were held in a small chapel due to bad weather. Then the family went to the grave for the actual interment.

I have no idea of the original cost of the burial plot but it included perpetual maintenance (and you can tell from driving through the rest of the cemetery that it's great maintenance). Now that it's settled we have to look into a new stone adding my mom and her brother who died not long before.
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Old Apr 30th, 2016, 05:34 PM
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Thank you all for this very interesting thread. A book called Death in Berlin describes, in one chapter, the lengths survivors of WWII went to find coffins and proper burials for the dead even in the extraordinary circumstances of 1945.

I've wondered about a lot of this before -- nice to have some things explained.
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Old Apr 30th, 2016, 06:01 PM
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Very interesting to learn of these differing customs. My cousin's husband was cremated but then buried in a tiny space next to other cremated remains. It seemed odd to me as I guess I am more used to either a casket being buried or cremated remains being placed in an urn and ending up who knows where.

I had not idea many burial plots in Europe were only used for 20 years.
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