indiancouple

We are in the early stages of planning for a trip to Greece and Turkey in May 2011. The trip would be about 17-18 days. We are a couple in the 50's, avid travelers, love natural beauty, architecture,culture, food etc (not the museum types). Have never been to either country. Our questions are :

1. Given the duration of our trip, I am thinking to limit ourselves to 5 destinations maximum (3-4 nights at each place). Thinking about Istanbul, Cappadocia, Athens, Mykonos and Santorini. Need suggestions on what to change in our destination list (especially our choice of islands: would like to select two islands which are different and give a different feel from each other). Please give your suggestions.

2. We need suggestions on how to travel from one place to another (starting from Istanbul and ending at Istanbul). Please suggest ideal mode of transport, and the sequence of visiting all 5 destinations, keeping in view both costs and time of travel. We get good flight deals from India to Istanbul, but open-jaw deals are very bad (e.g. flying into Istanbul and flying out of Athens). I guess flight connections from India to Athens are very bad. Hence the limitation of starting and ending at Istanbul.

Look forward to your suggestions.

WWanderer

All I would say is to consider alternatives to Mykonos and Santorini. These two islands are both beautiful, of course, but also very touristy. Have a good look at the island selection on a website like http://www.greektravel.com/greekislands/ and think about other destinations.

I can't help you with transportation; in the past transportation from Istanbul to Athens has been difficult, but there are probably cheap air carriers now.

I would recommend getting out to the islands as soon as you arrive, the same day you fly to Athens if possible. Then come back to Athens so that you don't have to worry about getting back to the mainland at the last minute.

Serifos

May and June are very good months to visit the Greek islands. The high season is generally July and August.
I would not miss Santorini because to my opinion it is unique. In Santorini you may want to stay in Fira (that is where the pictures you have seen are mostly taken).
A second island to visit to get a totally different perspective of the Greek islands would be Rhodes or Corfu. There are charter flights from Santorini to Rhodes but I do not know if they run in May. Search the internet and you will find information.
I agree with "wwanderer" that it would be best to leave for Santorini first. Then you can return to Athens and stay (visit the Acropolis and the new Acropolis museum) then fly out to Rhodes or Corfu (they both have international airports) from where you can fly to Istabul.
I hope you have an excellent trip!

ParisAmsterdam

Skip Mykonos. From the description you give of yourselves I don't see the point. There's a beach and some bars. Snore.

Rent a car (don't be afraid... you CAN drive in Greece) and drive to Nafplion in the Peloponnese.
Beautiful old town and once a capital of Greece.
Nearby you can see such wonders as the theater at Epidaurus, the ruins of Tiryns and the amazing Mycenae. And that's just for starters...

brotherleelove2004

I wonder why you haven't included Ephesus in your Turkish itinerary. It's one of the most important sites in the Med. From there you can catch a ferry to Samos, and from Samos on to Mykonos.

Heimdall

It appears to me you will need to do some doubling back to achieve the proposed itinerary. For example, Cappadocia is in central Turkey, more or less the opposite direction from the Aegean Sea and Greece. Any travel overland or by sea will be time consuming, eating up a lot of your 17-18 days. You could speed things up by taking flights between some of your stops.

If you can get to one of the Turkish ports with ferry connections to the Greek Islands, then you can reach Santorini and Mykonos, go on to Athens, and return to Istanbul by air. Brotherleelove's suggestion to see Ephesus would accomplish that: ferry Kusadasi > Samos; ferry Samos > Mykonos; ferry Mykonos > Santorini; ferry or flight Santorini >Athens; flight Athens > Istanbul. Ephesus would be a good substitute for Cappadocia - at least you will be going in the right direction.

lynclarke

In Santorini you want to stay in Oia! not Fira. We went to Greece this year. We spent 8 days in Athens--one day to get over jetlag Plus one week of sightseeing. We rented a little house and we loved it. The second week we spent in Oia, Santorini in a cave house overlooking Ammoudi harbor. It was great, too. On the way home, we stopped in Germany and visited friends for a few days.

We travel a little slower--we see less places but we get to spend more time doing ordinary things like going to street markets, grocery stores---oooo how I love grocery stores, and meeting locals. We considered going to Turkey for a couple of days but decided to viist friends instead.

indiancouple

Excellent suggestions above. Please keep them coming ! I was wrong about the open-jaw ticket. Discovered that we can do an open-jaw flight, i.e. fly into Athens and out of Istanbul at more or less the same fare. Some questions:

1. I like the suggestion of Wwanderer to heading straight for an island when one lands in Athens. The consensus above seems to be to avoid Mykonos, but stick to Santorini. Can you recommend another island which would give a different perspective ? Suggestion of Serifos above to visit Rhodes or Corfu sounds good, but involves taking another flight. Any other island which one can reach by ferry, and would be nice ? How about Paros or Naxos ?

2. I realize that Cappadocia involves a lot of travel (would probably have to fly in and out of Istanbul to reach there). I don't know how great a place Cappadocia is, and whether it would be OK to skip it. Somehow the photographs of the terrain seem enticing. Can someone enlighten me on the desirability of visiting/ skipping Cappadocia ?

3. Considering that one would be seeing a lot of historical ruins in Athens and the surroundings, would you still recommend going to Ephesus ? Is it very different from the other sights of Greece ? I realize it is in the direction of travel, but would that be the only reason to visit it ? Would like brotherleelove and Heimdall to elaborate please.

4. Have heard good things about Nafplion. The post by ParisAmsterdam reinforces that. Have also heard good things about Delphi. Is it possible to daytrip from Athens to Delphi or Nafplion, or should one consider staying there ?

5. How does this sound : Fly into Athens. Head straight for one island by ferry (Paros/Naxos/some other).Spend 3 nights and take ferry to Santorini. Spend 3 nights and fly back to Athens. Spend 4 days in Athens and surrounding area (incl Delphi and/or Nafplion). Fly to Cappadocia. Spend 2 nights and fly to Istanbul. Spend 4 nights and fly out. Please critique. Am totally open to change.

6. Is there a flight from Athens to Cappadocia, or does one have to go via Istanbul ?

travelerjan

For people like you with VERY ambitious itineraries, you cannot get precise advice without precise information. It's hard to critique without having a better "fix" on arrival times & departure times. Yes I know, you haven't booked yet --- but perhaps you can find out from your customary airlines, the flights from India into Athens that are much the same year-in and year-out. Could you find out when Indian flights typically arrive? 5 am? 7 am? noon? 8 pm?

If you arrive in the morning you would be able to fly immediately to your Farthest island -- perhaps Rhodes. Then after 3 days, there is a lovely and Blue Star Ferry going 3x per week to Santorini (dep 1700 arrive Midnight). Stay Santorini 3 days, then go to Paros or Naxos, for 3 days, and ferry (dp 7pm arr midnight) to Athens. After a day in Athens, you could do a lovely 2-day Tour to Nafplio -- see Epidaurus, Mycenae, and explore the beautiful Nafplio Old Town. back to Athens for 2 final days = 14 days. If this too much .... then skp Rhodes.

travelerjan

PS: The Greece forum can't answer all your Turkey questions. And the Turkey Forum will say, spend 14 days in Turkey, 3 days in Greece. At some point you are going to have to make your own decisions on how to allot your town, we can't do it for you.

travelerjan

I meant, "allot your time" of course... no edit function on this forum.

Heimdall

Your post is in the <i>Europe</i> forum, and is tagged for both Greece and Turkey. I am surprised that no one with a specific interest in Turkey has replied so far. My suggestion to substitute Ephesus for Cappadocia was purely in the interest of logistics. Now you are considering an Athens - Istanbul open-jaw ticket, that changes the game.

Frankly, 17-18 days will pass by quicker than you think. Flights between destinations will eliminate a lot of travel time. For instance, a flight from Athens to Santorini is 45 minutes, while a conventional ferry takes about 8 hours. For a second island, Mykonos, Naxos, and Paros are all good choices. Without knowing what time of day your flight arrives in Athens, it is difficult to advise which to do first. A 3/3 day split between islands sounds good to me, and with 4 days in Athens you will have time for a trip to Nafplio or Delphi, but probably not both. Spending at least one night at either would be preferable to a day trip.

otherchelebi

The reason i did not post earlier is that i do not wish to hog all Turkey threads.

Cappadocia does not have an equivalent in terms of the alien landscapes, at least within Europe. You probably should read the trip reports of former visitors on these forums. I believe seeing the area first hand will bebetter than any pictures. This is a great area for reasonably easy walks and for observing a rather different culture and tasting a different cuisine.

regarding Ephesus, there is nothing like that in Athens or istanbul. It is large, has been excavated quite well, with certain areas like the terrace houses, the library celsius, etc. providing exciting views into ancient life. But the region is more like mainland Greek coast and the food is similar also.

istanbul probably has twice or even more historic and cultural sites to visit than Athens and a more varied architectural vista, plus the natural beauty of the Bosphorus in the middle of this 15 million cosmopolitan city. There are also a number of international festivals here in Istanbul in May, for your evenings, if you are interested in the theatre, dance and music.

I do not know about restaurants in Athens, but you can get some excellent fusion and eclectic food here in addition to both traditional Ottoman, and regional Anatolian (meaning Turkish, Armenian, Syrian, Greek, Georgian, Albanian, Macedonian dishes).

My favourite fusion restaurant Changa has been listed twice in the top 50 restaurants in the world. Asitane has successfully recreated Imperial Ottoman cuisine, Oz Kilisli kebap, for a very low price, serves terrific Turkish/Mesopotamian fare, and Ciya has quaint Syrian Christian hot plate specials and salads, to give a few examples.

In Cappadocia, taste the Manti, Turkish ravioli, and the sun dried beef, Pastirma, a spicier pastrami covered with fenugreek, garlic, hot cayenne pepper, which are some of the specialities of the region.

Hope you continue to enjoy your planning and eventually the trip itself, although allowing at least a little flexibility and unplanned days are always good on a trip.

OC

ParisAmsterdam

Re Delphi as a day trip from Athens.

Is it doable? Absolutely. In 2008 a friend and I drove out of Athens and took the route via Elefsina and Thebes on highway E962. We returned early evening via the National Road.

I highly recommend the E962... much more scenic and fun to drive. Little traffic in early May when we did it too.

Be aware of odd closing times when traveling out of the main season though... we had just reached the stadium at the top of Delphi when we and the rest were herded out by the guards at 3 PM!

Rob

indiancouple

Excellent advice from many people, once again. I do feel that a destination has to excite you and "call out" to you to visit. I guess Cappadocia does that to me, whereas Ephesus fails to elicit the same degree of excitement (I realize that I am forming judgements based on a few photographs and a few posts here, but all the same). Almost all posts that I have seen of Fodorites who have visited Cappadocia, I have yet to read any one which has not raved about the place.

Since I wish to limit our destinations to a max of 5, I think I am veering towards:
1. Athens (with possibly a day trip to either Nafplio or Delphi; maybe an overnighter): 4 nights
2. Santorini : 3 nights
3. Another Greek island : probably Naxos or Paros: 3 nights
4. Cappadocia : 2 nights
5. Istanbul : 4 nights

I know that I don't wish to add a 6th destination in such a short trip, so something has to be sacrificed. The above adds up to 16 nights, which is what I want. The exact sequencing cannot be decided unless we know our flight timings etc, and can be decided later.

Heimdall, your points are well taken. I realize that your earlier suggestion for Ephesus was practical in terms of logistics. I note that you concur that if we use flights for several legs, the above plan is doable. Incidentally, how far by road is Nafplio from Athens ? And Delphi ? And between Paros and Naxos, which one would you suggest ?

Otherchelebi, I have noted from the Turkey threads that you are extremely knowledgeable about Turkey. Thank you for giving a wonderful and detailed response. Exploring a nation's culture is extremely important to our travels, and I am glad we will find a lot of it in Istanbul. As for your cuisine recommendations, I may add that we are vegetarians. Hope that will not come too much in the way of enjoying the local cuisine.Perhaps you can throw some light on that as far as Turkish cuisine is concerned.

Travelerjan, it is probably too early to start checking on flight arrival timings, as flight schedules from India to European destinations get switched around a lot. We can leave that for another 4 months or so, and then look at our exact sequencing, depending on what is logistically practical. It is more important now to decide the final destinations, so that we can start researching them. Looks like your vote is also for somehow making it to Nafplio. And most responses to this thread have tended to favour Paros or Naxos over Mykonos. These decisions are helpful and critical at this stage, so that we can research the final destinations properly, at our leisure.

Look forward to more suggestions. This is how we have always planned our trips, with the assistance of advice from Fodorites !

otherchelebi

Indian couple, thanks for your acknowledgement of the posters.

You will find many very delicious salads and many vegetables and combinations of them cooked and or served with olive oil on both sides of the Aegean sea.

May is a good time for some special wild salad greens, which are not commercially produced.

Forget the southern Turkish cooking which has mostly meat kebaps.

At cappadocia, ask for manti without meat. One type has yoghurt with hot red pepper flakes in melted butter, and other kinds will have a tomatoe sauce or just sprinkled walnuts. All three are excellent.

Try "imam bayildi", "deniz borulcesi", "turnip juice", salgam suyu (contains mostly juice of red carrots, slightly fermented and can be very tastyly hot.), eggplant salad, fresh out of oven breads with your many different kinds of "meze".

Heimdall

Hi Indiancouple,

You have put together an excellent itinerary, and I agree with the number of days allocated for each destination.

Choosing between Paros, Naxos, or Mykonos is never easy - I like all three. Mykonos has many upmarket shops, hotels, and restaurants, a beautiful chora (main town), and the wonderful archeological site of Delos nearby. May is fairly quiet, totally different from July and August when Mykonos is known as a party island.

Naxos is the favourite of many on this board. It also has a beautiful chora, sandy beaches easily reached from town, and some interesting mountain villages. Most of the tourist infrastructure is concentrated around Naxos Town. I enjoy visiting Naxos when I can be dragged away from Antiparos.

Paros, together with Antiparos, is a little more complex, with several major resorts around the island. there are many, many beaches, some of them long and sandy, and others in small coves with good snorkelling. Parikia is the main town and port, with the best connections to other parts of the island and to Antiparos. Naoussa, an old fishing village now taken over by tourism, is probably the most picturesque. Antiparos is a separate island, but only 30 minutes by bus/ferry from Parikia, so you get two islands for the price of one. ;-)

Nafplion is about two hours from Athens, Delphi maybe three. Either can be done as a day trip, but there are many other sights around Nafplion, so an overnight there would be less rushed. If you don't wish to do your own driving, there are tour companies that will take you there.

HappyTrvlr

You need stay overnight in Napflion, two nights would be even better, as there are so manuy antiquities nearby as well as in the city itself.I would take a day from Santorini and ad it to Napflion.

indiancouple

Thanks everyone for the wonderful advise. We will now research our destinations in detail, and come back later for more specific questions.

Heimdall, looks like your heart is set at Paros and Antiparos ! The way you describe it, it sounds very tempting. Is the island alive in May ?

Heimdall

Both Naxos and Paros are very quiet at the beginning of May, with hotels and restaurants just opening for the season. By the end of May nearly everything is open, but still uncrowded. Weather will be warm enough for sunbathing, and water okay for swimming, but rather cool. It's not until mid-June that the islands become lively. Mykonos and Santorini, with their cruise ship visitors, will be busier in May.

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but there are excursion boats to Mykonos/Delos from both Naxos and Paros.