Spur of the moment we're going to Tuscany -- and I could use your advice!

PS:

Has anyone every stayed or dined a L'albergo Osteria Da Toto in Lucignano? I really like the location.

Okay, don't know if anybody cares to chime in but I've booked Da Toto.

I've also done some research and my target touring spots are:

Arezzo
Monte Oliveto Maggiore
Pienza
Montepulciano
Val d"Orcia

I've also become quite interested in seeing Chiusi for its Etruscan treasures. Has anyone ever been in its museum?

Any suggestions about adding or subtracting from the list. We have 4 full days (excluding travel time) and we want them to be relaxed touristing, punctuated by nice lunches. The days aren't long, so I don't think we can get too ambitious.

Any tips about visiting Monte Oliveto Maggiore? I thought we would combine it with lunch in Buonconvento, but I'm unsure how much time to alot for a visit to the abbey. (We're all kind of slow pokes.)

Thanks in advance to any Tuscan experts who might be out there and willing to comment! All tips welcome, including about parking in Arezzo and making the most of a visit there.

What's the attraction for you of Monte Oliveto Maggiore?

It's an ugly building, IMHO, though (if you get the opening hours right) a large and impressive Luca Signorelli fresco cycle and a less impressive one by Sodoma. Don't know how it is in late autumn, but in early summer, it's awash with small-scale localish mini-pilgrimages. The monks' singing at Sunday Mass is no more than OK at best, but most of the singing is by the pilgrims' choirs and is simply awful. Attending the main Mass and seeing the frescoes before they close for lunch is close to impossible. If you want to avoid the service (the chapel is of zero interest), you're not in control of your timing: their opening hours are, but judge how long you need to look at fresco cycles.

Unless you're a Signorelli fan, Sant'Antimo is a far more impressive bit of architecture.

That's funny!

When I plunged into the internet to figure out which of the abbeys we would want to see, the first description I came across for Sant'Antimo was solely gushing about the monk's singing -- with pictures of tourists standing around gawking -- and I immediately ruled it out. And what I also read about the frescoes in Monte Oliveto Maggiore was fantastic.

But after reading your post, I began digging through tour books, and so now Sant'Antimo is on the short list Thank you!. Should we aim for lunch in Montalcino or elsewhere? I gather it may be worth going to Sant'Antimo in the afternoon to catch the sunset.

We may still try to see the Signorelli fresco cycle. I ran across many Bendictine pilgrims when I toured Umbria and Le Marche, so I know the problem. I hope we can time our visits to avoid rites.

Thanks!

Locada di San Francesco in Montepulciano. You won't regret it. Lovely wine bar and restaurant as part of this locanda. The view is to die for. Parking is no problem. YOu can head down the hill to La Grotta, a fine restaurant. Wish I was going along!

Are you sure you want hilltowns? They are exactly what you described as not wanting - quaint, cute. Most are tiny and compact. It sounds like you want a city, not a hilltown.

There are dozens of places to stay in Pienza which has a selection of restaurants within a five minute walk. I'm not sure Pienza would meet any of your other criteria though. I stayed at Il Giardino Segreto in September (their smallest apartment) and some of their apartments have fireplaces, but not all. It's right in the midst of the old town. I'm not sure if much will be open in the hilltowns this late in the season.
http://www.nautilus-mp.com/tuscany/affitti/ilgiardinosegreto/indexing.html

This website is for southern Tuscany and includes restaurants, farm stays, B&B's.
http://www.cretedisiena.com/english/

Hmmm ! You post at 04:35 in the AM and then say you have booked a place 4 hours later before anyone has a chance to reply. You must be in the UK to post that early. My choice for you would be Palazzo del Capitano in San Quirico or Locanda San Francesco in Montepulciano. Yes, I do think the frescoes at the abbey are worth your time.

Good day Suddenly Tuscany,

What nice surprise for you...

Now that you have a place to stay – you need places to drive to. Be sure to rent a car.

Chiusi is a very nice destination, especially if you are interested in Etruscan history. Museum there is nice - but I do not recall the gold jewelry like we saw at the Etruscan museum in Volterra.

We enjoy the Etruscan funerary urns (cinerary urns) because they provide such insight into the fashions, styles, and even ethnic background of the people, as if the Etruscans are here living among us today.

There is a Chiusi hotel and restaurant suggestion about 1 minute into this video:

http://www.webvisionitaly.com/category.php?id=241&ref_genre=&ref_item=345

You'll also find a video of the Etruscan museum in Volterra.

In that area of Tuscany you are also close to Umbria - wonderful to head to a few towns there for a lunch too!

Well, I guess the states are up now! (Bob should change his handle to bob the detective).

I'm going to stick with my accommodation choice because seeing Arezzo is high on our list, and I very much like the location of Lucignano for that. I've also read nice things about the food and the owners.

But while I was waiting for a confirmation from Da Toto, I did some internet research in case they couldn't have us, and I had bookmarked almost all of your suggestions. So fine minds, etc..... Thank you for posting them!

kybourbon,

Are Arezzo, Pienza and the Abbeys really "cute"? I've been looking at pictures and they seem to have very impressive architecture and histories. Even Montepulciano appears to have quite a grand piazza. I think Lucignano and Chiusi will do us for slightly off the tourist track, even though I take it a lot of foreigners pass through Chiusi picking up and dropping off rental cars. Where would you suggest we go other than the places I listed? We're open to all suggestions.

Webvision,

I enjoyed the video. Since we are beginning in Rome (and zipping right up to Tuscany) I will be picking up a car in Chiusi and we've decided to spend one night there since we'll be arriving so late. But I think we may linger to see the Etruscan sites, because we've already decided that before returning the car (in Rome), we will go to Tarquinia to see the Etruscan museum. We think Volterra belongs in another trip. I don't want to get too ambitious about driving because of the time of year. We've been to Umbria (or at least some of it) and it is marvelous.

Thanks again!

PS: Does anyone else recommend La Grotta for a meal in Montepulciano? Alas, one of our problems will be that it will be too cold to enjoy the wonderful restaurants with terraces and such. The food is going to have to carry the whole burden!

Hey! Anyone who has been to La Grotta will recommend it. I just read that it is one of only four wonderful restaurants in Tuscany. It was by far the best meal we had there.

La Grotta is wonderful.

Two of my favorite towns to visit in southern Tuscany (both dramatic and unusual) are Sorano and Pitigliano. Here's a nice website to help with your planning-

http://www.pitigliano-toscana.com/

There are some nice places for lunch in Pitigliano and a beautiful and unique casual wine bar (cave) in Sorano that you have to visit. I don't remember the name of the wine bar, but as you walk the "main" street look for a small sign pointing downhill to a wine bar. I think it's only open on the weekends.

Enjoy you trip!

Sorry- enjoy your trip!

I just ate there last week and yes it is really good, very different from the typical trattoria fare you find most everywhere else, much more creative. We were brought a complementary glass of white Nobile and a small 'amuse-bouche'. I had a cheese soufflé with asperagus sauce for the primo, followed by cheese ravolis in a 'most' sauce. I had never has this before, apparantly an extraction from pressed grapes. I can't remember exactly what my boyfriend had, but some kind of pasta for the primo and a meat (maybe lamb) of some sort. He also enjoyed both. We also had a nice bottle of Nobile di Montepulciano.

As if that wasnt enough, I had a Marscapone cream for dessert and my by had tarte. Oh and a glass of dessert wine each to go with it.

Our bill was around 130€ which is the most we spent on dinner this trip but it was worth it, especially with all that we ordered. Service is top notch as well.

On a side note, if you go to Cortona, there is also a La Grotta there which I recommend as well. We ate there twice it was so good. Actually I enjoyed it just as much, maybe more than La Grotta in Montepulciano because they had fresh truffles. It is about half the price as well, a bowl of fresh pasta with tons of black shaved truffles was only 10€. Even though we were staying near Montepulciano we drove back to Cortona on our last night just to eat truffles here again. Yum.

Part of the reason I asked for more opinions about La Grotta is because I had come across the internet comments of someone who preferred Ristorante Le Logge del Vignola.

http://www.janeandken.com/Italy2003/Italy2003recommendationspage1.html

What you describe for lunches sound scrumptious, but I'll be skipping the wine so I can drive ok.

Zoecat,

I'm considering Pitigliano as a lunch stop on the way to Tarquinia . What lunch places do you recommend? I really doubt we can do a wine bar on the road though, and we won't be traveling near Sorano on a weekend day.

Kelly, I'm hoping to run into truffles during our tour. (I know there is one town right around there that is a bit famous for them). But so far we feel like we can't include both Cortona and Arezzo in this trip, and we're leaning toward Arezzo.

We're going to eat all our dinners at our albergo, and we hope that lunch menus at the best restaurants are a bit cheaper than dinner menus (and we won't be drinking at lunch).

Thanks again!

Any more input is welcome. I'd especially like to hear opinions about the best way to get to Tarquinia.

Arezzo is not cute, but neither is it a hill town. Or at least I wouldn't call it a hill town. Although it slopes uphill.

I love Arezzo. You will certainly see great art and dramatic architecture. Good food, too.

Thanks for that bit of intelligence! We'll probably need to alternate between hills and not-hills to pace ourselves.

I'm very much looking forward to seeing Arezzo in 3-dimensions. The pictures make it seem quite striking. Did you have a favorite lunch spot there?

My husband and I found the museum in Chiusi very informaative about the alusive Etruscan culture. They have quite a few artifacts to see. You can also visit an Etruscan tomb through the museum. You follow a guide in your own car. This was an awesome experience. Have a good trip.

One of the best reviewed places to eat in Pitigliano is Tufo Allegro.

I'm not sure you can squeeze in Pitigliano on your way to Tarquinia. It looks like a 2.5 hour drive from Arezzo to Tarquinia when using the highway. Trying to include lunch in Pitigliano would make it a long day of driving and not much time in Tarquinia.

Guidebook writer suggests Terrazza Aldobrandeschi in Sorano.
See also www.elegantetruria.com for places, itineraries , locandas, B&B with more substance than hype.
Try going just a bit further south to find the authentic area that is still not fashinable but where food, extra virgin olive oil and wines are still authentic. Also costs less.

zoecat,

Thanks! We will be starting that day from Lucignano, and spending the night in Tarquinia, which will tour the next day. So maybe it is doable.

Vetralla,

We hear you! THe entire genesis of this spur of the moment trip came out of a conversation where several of us were talking about how we had deliberately avoided the "fashionable" Tuscany for years and years, even though between us we've been to Italy about 20 times. In fact, my husband and I have toured small towns in Lazio and loved it. One of the reasons we have included Tarquinia and lingering in Chiusi in this brief trip is because of the interest we acquired in Etruscan culture traveling through Lazio.

But we, as a group, decided that we were finally going to be brave tourists and see those famous Tuscan towns, and make up our own minds about the hype. So off we go to Montepulciano, Pienza, Montalcino, etc. We're not very brave, mind you, we're being very off-season, and we're giving Arezzo the priorty. And we still quail at the thought of Chianti! But we finally had to admit we really do want to see much off the architecture and art in this area, even at the cost of lesser food and more people who talk like us. But we'll be marching forward from here to the unfamous, less tourist-trodden Italy. You may see us very soon!

Can you advise on an easy route from Lucignano to Sorano? Will Terrazza Aldobrandeschi be open for lunch on Tuesdays?

I also have a deep curiousity about Saturnia. Might it make for a lunch destination between Lucignano and Tarquinia?

Thank you!

Alas, I just looked up La Terrazza Aldobrandeschi's website and it is closed Tuesday for lunch. And Tufo Allegro doesn't serve lunch (and it's closed all day Tuesday).

But using viamichelin it does appear I wouldn't have too much trouble getting into that area in time for lunch. Any other recommendations for towns or lunch places around Sorano, Pitigliano, etc?

nametaken,

Thank you for that information about the museum in Chiusi! We are looking forward to it.

Dear Suddenlytuscany:
I live in Italy in the summer and my favorite spot is a small town about 15 miles from Pienza called Montisi. It is a beautiful community full of life, historic architecture and lovely people. You can walk to a lovely tratoria, or if you stay at La Romita, my home during the summer, Giovianna and Alberto, the owners will prepare a wonderful meal for you. At the end of the Village is Da Roberto's the food quite good, and the owner a great treat! A great bar,owned by La Romita's son Ricardo offers great food in the evening also, and it is where the village life happens,and across the street from La Romita, morning coffee stop available within a few steps. In the neighboring villages are great meals at reasonable prices. Try Trequanda & Petroio, for dinner. Petroio has a lovely little inn with an awesome view and great food.
The drive between Pienza to Monticchiello is the most beautiful tusan landscape in the whole area, may be very different this time of the year but still beautiful. I live in Tuscany to enjoy the tranquil life, eat fresh food, practice the slow food and travel movement. Another village that you need to know about is Bagnoregio and the old civita, an ancient medevial village only accessable by a foot bridge. If you go to Bagnoregio, stay with my friends at Pucci's Romantica, owners Pucci and Lamberto have a lovely villa in the old village, good price, clean comfortable rooms , he is a chef and she is a beautiful Italian Hostess. You will be close to Orvieto, a must see. A lovely Etruscan museum. Laggo Bolsenia is also a nice community. If you want more information and a referral to La Romita or Puccis write to me and I will email my friends/like my family now, for you. Grazie Katia

We spent 3 days in Tuscany last summer. I would recommend visiting and possibly staying in Montalcino or Montepulciano, which is larger. We stayed in Montebenichi, east of Sienna, in a renovated castle but it was expensive. But our interest was in wine/vineyards. I don't remember the names of the restaurants; the food was great all over as we spent time in Florence and CinqueTerre; we went by recommendations from our hotels, and they were excellent but in Tuscany in the middle of nowhere. South of Sienna there is an interestin old Abby.
You will enjoy driving more if you have a GPS. We rented from Hertz in Florence.

birdgirl,

Thank you for sharing that information with me. The weather forecasts indicate we are likely to have some perfectly sunny days, and we're going to grab one to take a scenic drive. We've been trying to nail down just which road to take to understand why others love Tuscany as much as they do, so Pienza to Montichiello or vice versa is on our itinerary. Thank you too for your other recommendations. We realize that by coming in late November we won't have the chance to enjoy Tuscany's finest weather and flowers, but we hope to meet some of the wonderful people we keep hearing about and enjoy the well-preserved architecture. We've been fortunate enough to have previously seen Orvieto, and I worry about trying to squeeze in Civita Bagnoregio, We'll just have to see how it goes.

BarryWHaight,

Thank you for your help. We do plan to see Montepulciano and Montalcino (to also see the Abbey close by), but we are increasingly happy with our choice of staying in the town of Lucignano, which seems lovely but not all that well known to tourists. I think it will make for a nice contrast. Just before I checked into see if there were any more replies on Fodor's, I hunted through my cupboards to find the GPS, and it's already in the suitcase.

We have also spent time in beautiful Florence, Siena and le Cinque Terre on previous trips, and we are very curious to see the very famous small bit of Italy people love so much.

Montisi is also one of my favorite villages. I agree about De Roberto's- wonderful food and a beautiful and unique interior dining room. It is also entertaining and informative- Roberto is quite a character.

Have a great trip--I am sure you will. I have 2 comments:
Be sure your accommodation has good heat--often an issue that time of year.
And, Pitigliano may be a longer drive than you know. I would stay closer to home.

Hmmm. Montisi. It is going to be quite the struggle to choose, zoecat.

Thank you, bob. We are going to spend a night in Tarquinia at the end of this trip (and our final night in Rome before leaving from the airport). So we are not thinking of doing Pitigliano as a day trip from Lucignano, but were thinking to stopping there for lunch on our way to Tarquinia.

My concern with that plan is that Pitigliano is too enticing a place to simply stop in for lunch and move on. (We would like to get to Tarquinia before dark.)

So we are looking for a lunch option for that day of travel from Lucignano to Tarquinia. Right now I am thinking that, since we are arriving so late in Chiusi, we might simply get up the next morning, pick up the car and proceed to Lucignano, and come back to Chiusi on our way to Tarquinia to see the Etruscan sights and visit the museum, and have lunch.

And if our accommodations are not warm enough, we'll take one of the fine recommendations here.

By the way, I am beginning to get the impression from further research that getting from the Chiusi train station into Chiusi itself means either a bus or a cab, and that the car rental pick up office is someplace else again, outside of town. Can anyone advise?

There are 2 car rental offices. The Hertz is acorss from the station, and the Euorpcar is only a 5 minute walk, but still in Chiusi Scalo---the lower town where the train stops.

Hertz is on a corner plainly visible from the station, as the previous poster indicates. You can't miss it.

Given the general disatisfaction of current Europcar patrons, according to wholesaler Autoeurope -- the "mandatory gas purchase" at outrageous prices + their curiously consistent tendency to put fraudulent additional charges on your bill -- I'd stick with Hertz, as you are doing.

We have dealt with the Hertz personnel at that location (March 08) -- we had a flat tire in Montalcino and had to turn in our rental car for a new one. They were helpful and efficient.

Re Abazzia Monte Olivetto Maggiore, I don't agree at all with one of the other posters. We enjoyed it a lot (maybe we are less discriminating in our tastes). Also there is a restaurant on the premises that is operated independently of the monastery. The meals (we were staying at an agriturismo outside of Asciano that didn't provide meals, so we ate at the monastery 3 times) were delicious.

Also, one of the waiters at this restaurant recommended we visit Montalcino and eat at "Taverna Grappolo Blu". Unbeknownst to us, he gave them a heads up and when we turned up at the restaurant, we were welcome like long lost family. A very warm welcome and another delicious meal.

Have a nice trip!

Montepulciano is fantastico! Try the Il Marzocco for accomodations which is just inside the old city wall ....ask for a room has sweeping views of the valley below. There are wonderful eateries and many shops will have wine tastings ...There is a wonderful coppersmith shop that stays open late...pardon but the name escapes me..take in a tour of one of the wineries and sample de Nobile de Montepulciano..wonderful.

SUDDENLY:

Perhaps you've left already, but if not, check out my web-page on our most recent visit to Tuscany. Maybe it will help you in your planning.

http://www.travel.stv77.com/tuscany2005/tuscany05.htm

Hi,

We just got back last night, and had a very quirky, fun adventure, visiting places that perhaps most people bypass in Tuscany. We ended up dodging snow as well as having absolutely glorious sunshine, and I must agree with Maureen QC that the freschi at Monte Oliveto Maggiore are an artistic highpoint in the region, and we see a lot of art in Italy. (We took our lunch nearby in Buonconvento, which is absolutely flat and therefore apparently gets very few tourists, but it is nice, filled with history and charming large families and pets.)

I'll write up a whole report if I can find time, but I just wanted to add here that we rented from Avis in Chiusi and the location was quite inconvenient. It's on via Molise in an area off from the train station called Po Bandino. Since we spent the night in Chiusi and picked up the car in the morning, we took a taxi from our hotel in central Chiusi to the car rental office. Otherwise, I'm not sure how one finds it, and I certainly would not have wanted to be hauling luggage from the train station to there. We rented through AutoEurope, so we had no control over the vendor. The Avis desk clerk was a lovely man who spoke perfect English.

Also, the name of the coppersmith's in Montepulciano is Bottega del Rame. When we passed by the workshop in the fading November light, it was a very eye-catching, glowing sight. The coppersmith looked so happy to have some time alone to do his work-- in fact, he waited for my gawking companions to move on so he could continue -- we didn't go in. Just as well, since we would have probably gone overboard on copper, with no way to carry it back home.

Since we had to head south to fly out from Rome, we spent a chunk of time in Tarquinia, which we found highly rewarding in every way. We didnt expect the center of town to be so pleasant and pretty. We also managed to see Ostia and Ostia Antica before flying out of Fiumicino on a day when the flowers were out and there were only a smattering of people enjoying traipsing through the ruins with us. It was so sunny we got sunburnt.

But more at some later point. In the meantime, thanks much for your advice!

Ah so glad to hear that you liked Tarquinia...its just as pretty as San Gimignano with all the towers and lovely old palazzi plus the added attraction of the Etruscan museum, the nearby seaside, the necropolis .
Where did you stay? ...eat?
I hope you printed out the itinerary of the tombs from www.elegantetruria.com to bring along .

vetralla,

In many ways I found Tarquinia more exciting and more dramatically beautiful than San Gimignano, which I visited a few years ago, also in the down season (whilst I was staying in Lucca).

I was totally taken aback by how very user-friendly Tarquinia is in its central core, having passed it on the SS1/via Aurelia once or twice, where it looks it sprawls. But the roads into town are quite straightforward, and one you are there -- what a town! I agree the 27 towers set the tone, but everywhere you go, it is gracious and at the same time a very atmospheric antique city. We were there on market day, and it bustled with life and delicious looking produce.

We had an enchanting stay at the Gran Bed and Breakfast Duomo, right on the Piazza Duomo, and right around the corner from the Etruscan museum, about 50 steps.

http://www.granbandb.it/presentazioneINGL.htm

The B&B is in a grand palazzo and the rooms are beautifully restored, with large bathroom and modern amenities, while retaining many of the beautiful features of the original palazzo. The price is quite cheap.

Our hosts recommended Il Cavatappi for our dinner, but it was closed for a bit of renovation. Instead we went to Arcadia, which shows up on many recommended lists, and we were so happy, we ate our next meal there as well. We had exquisitely fresh seafood -- which we pounced on after all that Tuscan meat! -- and the staff recommended a gentle local wine that really came to life when paired with our seafoods. A real standout, and very modestly priced, was the oyster risotto, but we also enjoyed a fish "crudo" and an octopus "sopressata" (more like a carpaccio, over radicchio), as well as zuppe di cozze, with huge plump mussels. A whole branzino baked in salt was perfectly done.

http://www.on-web.it/arcadia/

We will happily go back to Tarquinia (I could live there!) and we will come armed with a tomb itinerary, as we are curious to explore Cerveteri as well. To be perfectly honest, we found the Etruscan museum in Chiusi to be better organized and more accessible as the national museum in Tarquinia (although not in as beautiful a building). The painted tombs inside the museum Tarquinia, however, are worth the price of admission, and we would return to Tarquinia again, just to enjoy the town. If the train connections are good enough, I could see myself basing there for sightseeing forays into Rome, a city I sometimes find exhausting. Tarquinia is more charming.

tt
Great trip report. I am surprised that you even needed Fodorite counsel: You seem a seasoned and, if I may say it, sophisticated traveller.

I picked up some very good advice in this thread from people far more sophisticated about Tuscany than we are. In particular I am glad to have the recommendation of the Locanda San Francesco in Montepulciano for future reference. Also the discussions of the smaller Etruscan towns is of interest, and in following up on information about Montisi, I became quite interested in the work of an artist who apparently lives there and has a website. So I'm grateful for the Fodorite input.