Ken

This sounds like a wonderful family vacation that you & the girls will never forget (they are getting close to being grown up aren't they so treasure this time)

Are you all accostomed to summer high temps in you native country?
This would be a big factor when deciding if you will see the north or south. Summer in Madrid & southern Spain is quite hot.

Since 15 to 18 days will not be enough time to see all of Spain & Portugal, you might decide on a particular region and go from there.

I would start by reading trip reports and the info here. Maribel's guides is a must for starters as well. http://www.maribelsguides.com/

Then once you have decided on your destination, you can share your budget and preferences (art, nature, castles, dining , beaches etc) and the folks here will be better able to offer help. They did me & DH and we are very grateful.

The process is fun, BUT but you must narrowdown your preferences.
Start off by asking yourselves what attracted you to Spain & Portugal?


ana maria

Hi Ana Maria -

Thanks for the post! Good advice all around (especially about the temperature! We were in Italy in July-August of 2007 (Rome, Florence, Como) and it WAS hot - many nights of not-so-good sleeping weather).

Narrowing down will be the first cut. I like to have a "basecamp" and do day trips, rather than keep packing up every other day. My girls have some lessons to learn about packing light!

As for what attracted us, good question! Some of it is that they know the language a bit, but beyond that, I need to explore the motivation. Thanks again!

Ken

The reason I ask is so that we can assist you. I am still in the learning process but happy to pass along our feedback.

By the way we love Spain and we are are looking forward to many trips there again. Also I think your daughters are old enough to really enjoy what Spain has to offer.

Hi Ana Maria -

Did a little digging over dinner this evening. Reasons for Spain/Portugal are varied:

"Because I can speak Spanish."
"For the shopping."
"To see new places."
"For the art and architecture."
"To interact with new people and immerse ourselves in a new culture."

(These are pretty good generic reasons to travel, but nonetheless true.)

We also had a friend who took her two teenage boys there two years ago and raved about it, particularly the Portuguese coast.

Ken

I am sure you will ove it because you will get all the things on the list.

Let us know what yiu decide to do and where...

From where are you flying? Long flight?

Southern Spain - IMHO the most interesting part - is VERY hot. Seville is often 100 or higher in the summer - and it's hard to do much in the midafternoon - you need to focus on am and pm - and then spend the afternoon at the pool (make sure your hotel has both a pool and good AC).

Thanks Ana Maria and NYTraveler -

Point of origin will be Boston.

Summer temperature is duly noted! I now need to dig in a bit on the broad strokes of what cities and parts of the countries. And the work week has begun, so we'll be on the info trail in the evenings.

Ken

Actually, it occurs to me to ask (since I'm essentially starting from scratch) -- are there cities and/or areas that seem like they would especially appeal to teenaged girls (who will be with their parents, not off on their own)?

If your girls are anything like mine then they will be more interested in the night life than culture. If this is the case then I would choose Spain; this said, Lagos in Portugal might be a nice compromise but its not exactly teeming with culture. Places like Benidorm and Torremolinos are much maligned but are real draws for teenagers - and there are cultural places to visit near both towns.

We were just in, and loved, Madrid. I describe it is "a great place to 'be'", meaning there aren't huge numbers of tourist attractions in the city (there are side trips, of course, but we only had three days there), but it's a beautiful city, with lots of good food, walking, parks, squares, monuments, museums, shopping, people-watching (our no. 1 favorite activity). Even if you aren't an "art museum" family, and we are not, we absolutely loved the Thyssen (the Prado - not so much). I was with my young-side 21-year old daughter.

We were also in Barcelona a few years ago, and we loved that too. The Gaudi architecture, the Miro museum, the Olympic village, the Ramblas, the cathedral, the market, all wonderful to a family that just loves to roam. At the time, our kids were 13 and 15 I think.

An observation about human nature:

Many people seem to enjoy seeing something they feel they know a little about, it makes them feel smart & informed. This goes for teens especially. Spend a little time in advance showing them pics of some of the sights or online, perhaps a famous painting (I love discussing the Meninas and how people ineterpret it) Not a heavy duty lecture mind you, just light info. When they see the real thing it will be so much more interesting.

Madrid has plenty, the Royal Palace, thr Prado, Retiro Park. I loved the Costume (clothing) Museum. It was really interesting and showed more about the cultural side of fashion than actual costumes. It is peaceful and calm too so go after a day of heavy sight seeing & walking for a reprieve for 1-2 hours.

Do your girls like music? Have they been exposed to flamenco? That would be fun for them.

I also find Spanish youth is much more used to socializing with adults than most American teens, who more often than not stay apart. It will be interesting to see and hear your feedback after the trip.

You do know that they speak Portuguese in Portugal, right?

I can't imagine going to Spain without visiting Granada for the Alhambra, but it will be very hot. Maybe a better time for northern Spain and the Porto and the Douro valley?

Thanks to the last 4 writers! As always, good tips and insight. Ana Maria, couldn't agree more on getting them a little familiar with what they might see before hand -- in fact, they are old enough to take on some of the research (lite) chores by city or region or area, as their interests dictate.

Good insight on teenager (popular places and Spanish teens' personalities). Starting to get a better sense of some of the options.

How is driving from city to city in general? Some of that we'll do as day trips anyway, but if we were going to get from, say Barcelona to Lisbon, are we better off via train or plane?

A bit off track (literally), have you taken a day trip to Morocco? Any feedback on that? (It's come up in our conversations here.)

I really enjoyed both Barcelona and Madrid, which are very different from each other. Madrid has a Spanish culture and Barcelona a Catalan culture. Both Catalan and Spanish are spoken in Barcelona, and since the girls speak Spanish they might find the mix interesting. Lots of art and architecture there too, including the distinctive and somewhat whimsical looking buildings and Park Guell by Gaudi.

The teens in our party on one visit to Madrid really enjoyed the late night outdoor atmosphere, with people walking around, sitting in cafes, going out for dinner and music until very late at night. The Plaza Santa Ana had a wonderful late night atmosphere, crafts booths, felt like a street festival.

Also in Madrid, they enjoyed flamenco at Casa Patas (www.casapatas.com).

For flights within Spain and to Lisbon, we used Vueling, a budget airline, for very inexpensive fares. www.vueling.com

Ken,

Barcelona to Lisbon? Wow! Since you really do not have that much time,
be careful or you will spend your time getting from one place to the other & unpacking instead of enjoying a particular area....

Madrid to Codoba is short train ride. I also loved Segovia and that is an easy train ride as well.
We stayed at the Hotel Infanta Isabel in Segovia and that is smack dab in the center. Have one of the kids reserch Cordoba & the other Segovia to see if it should go on your itinerary.

I agree with Nikki take them to Casa Patas in Madrid and have dinner there first before the show. I do not not usually recommend dinner in flamenco venues but it is actually pretty good food and a better value for the show, plus gets you preferred seats. If your family can handled it go to the late show which means dinner at about 10:30 pm.

Here is one of many trip reports on Barcelona that offers tips & involves teens. Remember your 18 yr old is practically an adult in Spain ...Hope it helps.

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2

There are LOTS more reports for Andalucia..just do a search.

OOPs try this for Missypie's report
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=35156190&start=0&dirtyBit=1

Ok I am so sorry,

Can someone please get Ken the link for Missypie's trip report to Barcelona with the kids? I seem to be one computer blunder after the other today....

my apologies.

Here is Missypie's report:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34966986

See www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=35156469 for why a day trip to Morocco isn't a great idea.

For Barcelona to Lisbon I'd fly, but if you really want to take the train see bahn.de or renfe.es for schedules. You'd change to the overnight Lusitania "train hotel" in Madrid.

According to GoogleMaps, Barcelona to Lisbon is 788 Miles, so it's doable, about the same distance as San Diego to Seattle. Would you do that trip if you had 15-18 days? (personally I would, but that doesn't mean there isn't plenty to see in and around just Southern Spain for that amount of time!)

Thanks for linking to my Barcelona trip report. It was one of our favorite trips - perfect for teen girls. Fantastic shopping, wild architecture, fun restaurants - a very high "cool" factor, along with history and culture. Really hard to beat.

Thanks Nikki!

Wow. Thanks to everyone. This board never ceases to amaze me. Great wake-up call on "the day trip to Morocco" -- Thanks, Thursdaysd!

Mileage Barcelona to Lisbon noted.

Read through Missypie's Trip report once. Clearly will need to do it again -- GREAT job. I wish I had done this when we were in Italy in 2007! Tons of practical stuff and great advice, as well as giving a real flavor of Barcelona.

More later as I dig in, but thanks to all for being so helpful.

I've been to Morocco, lived there for a year, and I enjoyed my stay very much; but I wouldn't give two Euro-cents for a daytrip to Tangier.

I took my son on a Graduation trip to Spain (Madrid, Sevilla, Galicia, Barcelona - a week on the Beach in Benidorm and Alicante) years ago. I mention that our trip included Santiago de Compostela, Toledo and its magnificant Cathedral, Segovia (likewise). In Segovia we dined at Mesón del Duque on roast suckling pig (I had the lamb). His overall comment: 'too many Churches.'

As long as you are enjoying trip reports, you might want to take a look at mine.

Barcelona 2007
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34955177

photos
http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=he0tnm3.b121mfwj&x=0&h=1&y=-o3uxdp

Spain and Portugal 2006
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34841123

photos
http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=he0tnm3.8hfyka4f&x=0&y=-fvnw8i

Lisbon, Alentejo and Madrid 2007
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=35062668

photos
http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=he0tnm3.b3prj7o7&x=0&y=-9tois1

Hi Nikki -

Thanks! Started reading it, but have to print out everything at this point -- We live in Massachusetts, too. I rememeber that storm -- the snowblower ran out of gas before I could do my vacationing neighbor's driveway and he came home to three inches of icy crust over a nice bed of snow.

I'll post my reactions and questions, but this is all good stuff.

Ken

Nedsireland's formula of City then Beach might be good. For instance, combining Barcelona with nearby Blanes
(which is busy enough for teens but not insane like Lloret) or Malaga/Torremolinos or Alicante/Benidorm.

I may be a bit predudice, but I favor Portugal...for example, fly into Lisbon, go to Sintra by train (incredible), next day drive toward the Algarve, rent a cottage there for at least a week, look at some of the signts you can do on day trips, evenings on the beach...lots of fun shops, little towns, go to Sagres for some ocean sights you will not soon forget.

Then drive north, stopping at Evora and other historical cities, stay in some Quintas (guest houses) and get to know the people a little, drive on to Porto for some wine country visions, etc., etc. I'd personally forget about Spain, if I had to choose.

just me and my thoughts

To all who responded last month, my thanks! Some wonderfully helpful comments and insight. Of course, for the past month, work has intruded in that way it does. But our travel thinking is evolving. To satisfy everyone in the family to some extent, we've found that 1 week of "busy" -- i.e, Barcelona -- needs to be balanced with 1 week of "relaxed." Given the constraints of our time next summer, we will have to put Portugal off for another trip. The choices for our 2nd week seem to be narrowing in on Minorca, or one of the coastal or beach towns north or south (Costa Bravo or Dorato) of Barcelona. We all like the villa experience, but don't know if that's as prevalent in any of those locations as in other regions. Any advice (Minorca seems particularly interesting to the family).

Ken

Ken
Menorca (another flight away) is known for family friendly - but this is small child family friendly (not the most fun for teens) and I still think you would not be disappointed with Benidorm. Costa Dorada resort of Salou is busy but I personally hated it.
Steve

kdkahn,

for the girls I would check out Santiago De Compostela, my teenage niece and nephew loved it there. Also Salamanca.

I thought Northern Spain was one of the most interesting places I have ever been...completely different than S. Spain, which is hot in the summer, dry and 'sorta fierce', in my estimation.

Buy Karen Brown's book on Spain, and even her "inns and Posaudas of Portugal", if possible. She maps out potential routes and itineraries, complete with phone numbers, great dining places, a bit of history, etc. We have never been disapointed in her suggestions.

There are some very lovely and historic places in Portugal...and if I were going with kids, I'd just skip southern Spain, go directly to the Algarve from Lisbon for the beaches and the boy watching, then motor us the coast. a few days in historic Lisbon, to Sintra (wonderful Moorish history, castle, etc.), continue up to the Douro Valley for spectacular scenery, history, etc., then continue to Spain, if there is time and see the Alhambra (gotta book ahead).

And take your time, go into some pubs, B&B's, visit the folks...that's what makes travelling fun to me.

I am leaving soon for another trip to Portugal.

Thanks for the input!

Oh the joys of family vacation planning. During last night's dinnertime chat, things became a little more clear - and complex. I think we're now looking at trying to do a little more in the 14-16 days we'll have, rather than just one week here and one week there. Of course, I'm trying to minimize driving and flying time, but some of that seems to be inevitable. The big building blocks now seem to be 1) Barcelona, with possible day or overnight trips from there, 3) a villa stay somewhere (Benidorm? Or the Portuguese coast? This is TBD), and ending in Lisbon for a few days. Effectively, city, non-city, city.

It's the period between Barcelona and Lisbon that is the puzzle. Driving would be a multiple day affair, although it migh enable us to stop at some great places along the way -- I'm not sure the teenagers will want more than 1 day of road travel.

This seems like a more hectic schedule and may be too much, given the distances involved. It might be more realistic to leave Portugal for another trip.

Obviously, I'm still pondering, but need to narrow the options down pretty soon and get the big "foundational" pieces in place (air and hotel/villa).

More later.

It baffles me why you want to do so much driving. Remember, European roads are not necessarily as dependable as here in the US, and unless you are on the Motor ways, they can be unpredictable...so you spend too much time in the car. Believe me, we learned this by experience. It is my experienct that it takes 3 days to see any one place, first day getting there, getting into your accomodations, getting fed, unpacked, orientated, second day to see what you came to see, and the third day to get packed, checked out, fed, etc.

To each his own...if you stay in portugal, look at the Pousada's...they are very nice, historic and predictable.

Hi Clarasong - Well, when you put it that way ---Yes, it baffles me, too. I actually would like to keep the driving to a minimum -- and I agree about the "3-day" thing. I'm trying to accomodate the family's diverse interests and inclinations.

Two years ago, we were in Italy for 16 days -- 3 days in Rome, a quick drive to a villa 20 minutes south of Siena, where we spent a week (while doing day and overnight trips to hill towns and Florence), then 1 day (6+ hours) of driving to Lake Como for another 4 days. That worked out pretty well for everyone -- a good balance of rest and activity, without an awful lot of driving. So I'm trying to duplicate that somehow with Spain and Portugal, but unless we stay to the eastern and/or southern parts of Spain, it seems unworkable to do both countries -- at least by car.

Candidly, I believe I'm overthinking this! The obvious $olution, if we have to both, is to $pend the money on airfare from Barcelona to Lisbon. If that breaks the budget than we should choose one general region and plan around that. (I.e, either Barcelona and the western coast of Spain -- and islands, perhaps -- or concentrate on the area between Lisbon and Seville or Lisbon and Porto.

I would guess that either would be great, so it almost comes down to a coin toss.

Obviously still pondering, but I think it's down to three broad directions.

It may already have been mentioned but I strongly advise that you get the girls deeply involved in the planning. Make sure that there is something nearly every day that they have chosen to do and that you go to places they want to see.

Well, of course by now, you know I am predjudice, and we are leaving for Portugal in a few days, but we love the country, and have spent a month at a time there...not to say you should, but the girls would LOVE the Algarve, very beachy, lots of foreigners, folks to talk to, out door cafes, fun shops, boardwalks, fresh fish stalls, etc (we stayed a month in Albuferia, and again in Villamourna (nice apartment, completely furnished, but plain)...they got casinos, pools, quaint little mountain towns within a day's drive, etc.

We have been thru the central area (Evora, etc.), and the mountains, and simply love the Douro river area, etc. But each place is a 'trip' of it's own, and deserves more than a 'cursory' peek.

Anyway, hope you have a wonderful time. THis trip, we are going north, back to some familiar haunts...will think of you when there. p.s. if you want more particulars, ask me soon,as we leave on Nov 1.

Thanks, Jeff! Thanks again Clarasong. Yes on the planning - it's a bit like pulling teeth with my particular girls, but they know they have to share in the joy of the planning process.

And Clarasong -- Yes, I can see that you love Portugal. Do you post notes to this site when you're travelling?

The little bit you described of each section helped. Feel free to write more . I will say that I have a horror of over-touristed areas, particularly when it comes to beaches. Not to say that total isolation is what I want (the teens would be most disappointed), but I don't like big crowds.

How much of an issue is the language barrier? I know it's part of the fun of travelling, but I like to know what to expect. While the girls speak some Spanish and there is a bit of French and Italian expertise between my wife and I, Portuguese is a mystery to all of us.

Last, we would have to travel end of July-beginning of August. Any advice regarding that time period?

Thanks in advance!

Ken

Viana do Costello is my favorite place (the Pousuda there) in the entire country...the fartherest north. It is on a high hill and one can see far down the coast with views out of this world.

Almost everyone we met in Portugal speaks English...they don't do Spainish...there has been bad feeling historically (wars and such) between the two countries over the centuries.

July and August will be warm, even hot, and the north should be cooler. There are some wonderful old forests near Buccaco with old palace now a Posauda. Since you are travelling in high season, need to book ahead. Folks are very nice and the food is excellent. And they don't have a bull fight on every night on the tv, as they do in Spain.

My impressions (only impressions) are that they are, as a rule, more civil than Spain. Not that we haven't loved Spain...been there many times. You could do the entier country of Portugal and extend into Spain, as far as the Alhambra (once in a life time experience) if you planned it ahead.
Also, they don't have the rigid "siesta" times that spain enforces. We went hours and hours with no facilities in Spain, as it is siesta, and everything is boarded up.

You could go to Fatima if you are religious...the Virgin did appear there and it is a holy shrine that folks come from all around the world.

Guess, not knowhing your girls, and their interests, it would be hard to know how to please them, but if they don't participate in the planning, then they have little to complain about later, for sure.

Karen Brown's books are so excellent, to help here. I think I mentioned it before...Probably studying some history beforehand would be gratifying.

This site is very helpful

www.pousadasofportugal.com

Hi Clarasong -

Your passion is very persuasive! A little digging has me convinced that northern Portugal (and possibly the northern Spanish coast) would make a great vacation. I assume that the airport in Porto is the best choice for the region (flying from Boston). Only question in my mind is whether teenagers will like it. They're not terribly big on history or lots of cathedrals. They do like little towns, shopping, great little restaurants and scenery (as well as interacting with local folks). My guess is, yes, they will like it.

I need to explore further, but you've been very helpful and given good advice. (It doesn't hurt that my wife went to a wine-tasting last night -- it was all Spanish wines, but the distributor (native of Spain) highly recommended the northern coastal region of Spain, so it seems to be all tying in somehow.

Thanks again!

Ken

The best port in the world comes from (guess where?) Porto and the Douro valley...lots of wineries nearby to visit, small towns (Pinhao), and river trips up/down the Douro river, a small train to ride, etc. we are going to a small Quinta on a hill above Pinhao dating back to the 16th century (small family home/hotel) casacasaldeloivos??? where will spend two nights this time.(I'll send you the site.)..it is reputed to have one of the 4 best views in the world. The terraced vinyards are very historic, some dating back to the time of Christ.

Have a look at this place (it's out of the world...)

http://www.casadecasaldeloivos.com/

Anyway, it would be hard to plan a trip for everyone. Best you can do is to give them options, and let them do their thing.
They may whine a lot but they will remember it as a time of their life.

Clarasong --You're right -- it looks beautiful. Reminds me a bit of the Aguriturismo villa we rented in Tuscany -- but the views over the Douro look even better. If I don't post again in the next few days, have a great trip!

Hello all. Fall was a bit of a bear, so I am only now getting back to my planning. If you have any input on the following, input away! The most recent plan is to somehow cover the ground between Lisbon and Santander (The Santander end point is negotiable -- my wife would like to spend some time in northern Spain's wine country). Likely timetable - 15-17 days in late July-early August 2009. Probably days 6-13 would be at a base camp, perhaps the casa that Clarasong praised in the Douro valley/Porto area.

I do have one somewhat humbling question. Although I love the mountains, I have discovered that neither my wife or I can drive on twisty mountain roads -- it may be something that we would get used to, but we both apparently have enough fear of heights (or lack of confidence in our car/driving ability) to make such experiences distinctly marked by, pardon the pun, high anxiety. A short drive up into the mountains east of Lake Como two years ago confirmed this pretty convincingly. So, my question: are the coastal roads of northern Spain and Portugal going to give us a problem?

Anyway, curious as to what you think of the itinerary. I have found some great posts on all of the areas, but less specifically related to our clan and our ages and interests. (And Clarasong, did you post any TRs from your fall trip to Portugal?

Ken

Ken: yes, I did post a trip report, and then some random photos a few days later. Just search on my name, in November. As to staying at the Quinta near Pinhao, i think if you are intimitated by mountain roads, that would not be a good idea. It is on the top of a mountain of grape terraces....been there for centuries mostly unchanged, and has, at least according to National Geographic, one of the most astounding views in the world. But, not a good idea if you are afraid or uncertain, as the road is very windy and narrow.

An alternative might be Porto.as a home base..you could see a lot, and there are really nice places to stay, a bit more central and easy to get to. Highways and motorways are very, very good, sinage is excellent, and everything is in English...

My thoughts are, if you only have limited time, either do Spain OR Portugal, and don't make the mistake of ending up using all your time in transit, getting to and fro.

If I wanted to see Portugal, I'd rent a car (as we have done many many times---almost certainly a 'stick' shift.) If you need 'automatic, it will be more expensive and you will need to 'book' it in advance. The Manual transmission is so much better for country roads, I think.

I'd go to the Algarve...and the girls will be in heaven...beaches and sunshine...then motor up the entire country, with some stops near Lisbon, on to Sintra (fabulous), and north to Porto (worth a few days just there), then north again toward the border of Spain...read my trip report..I'd use the Pousada system, always great, historic, predictable, and good local quisine...(in summer, need to book ahead).

I am, of course, very opinionated, but I like Portugal SO much better than Spain, for many, many reasons. That's an entire new post. and yes, the do understand Spanish in Portugal, altho they don't like to admit it.!!

Anyway, hope you have a good time.
look at my pictures.

p.s. Ken, we waited years to get into this one...only has about 6 rooms, but the folks are so friendly, the little town of Obidos is excellent for shopping, and kids might like it. It's a medieval castle converted...absolutely spectacular...BOOK ahead!!!! for sure.

http://www.pousadasofportugal.com/portugal/pousada/obidos.html

Clarasong -

Thanks for the rapid response. The pictures look great. I'm not sure how to interpret your comments about mountain driving. Your detailed report makes it seem pretty unnerving getting up to the Pousada above the river. I've noticed that the twisty roads of Tuscany never bothered me, even when they were fairly steep. It's the combination of very steep grades and/or precipitous drops on one or more sides of the road that undo us. Please confirm or deny that that's what we'd be facing. I hate the idea of missing out on a great view just because of a mild driving phobia.

Anyway, I'd hoped that the Santander-to-Lisbon voyage was doable in our 15-17 days time frame. Sounds like maybe not. What are your thoughts on the best of Portuguese wine regions?

Ken

ken: I don't know what to say. We live in the mountains (washington state) and I was born in the Rockies, so am not very daunted by steep mountain roads. If you go, and I know you would love it once there, you will find that there are curves, steep drop offs, and inclines, but (and that is a big But), being forwarned is 'forarmed', as they say. Roads are well maintained and well travelled.

If you want a taste of authenticity, GO, if you are timid, don't. Mr. Manuel Sampieo (owner) is the most gentle and kind man I ever met, and he told us that there is an 'easy' way off his mountain down to Pinho (a little longer but much more civil), so if you want an adventure, by all means, go. !!!

I never know how to advise folks, but be aware that DH and I are late middle age, have travelled most of our lives, love some strange experiences, and remember the best bits.

But when I think of Portugal, I will always think of the Douro valley, Mr. Sampieo, and the unique scenes, foods, and sights. Anyway, that is why we travel...for the difference.,, guess many agree with us, as he says he has an average of 1400 a year...(the weekend we were there, we were the only guests.~~~!)


Incidentally, we were there on Election eve, and mr. Sampieo came into his lovely Lounge (where we were enjoying a nice fire) and extended his hand and said "congratulations, you have a new President."

Please keep us informed how your planning is coming. If you want particulars, names, dates, places, I'll turn this over to DH , who is much more specific than I am, and I will ask him to reply to you in detail, if you send your personal e mail....by the way, what part of the country are you in?

We are in Seattle, and points north (at the moment, we are in the San Juan Island, where we maintaiN A second home)

Best wishes.

Hi again -

I HAD noticed on the Pousada site that there seemed to be a back way in. I know if we went, my stubborn streak would overcome my anxiety. Not sure if the family would feel the same way! But I'll keep you posted.

By the way, we're in the Boston area. I grew up near NYC and my wife is from Indiana, so neither of us were mountain-born and bred. I used to do a lot of hiking in the White Mountains -- heights don't bother me that much on foot!

Thanks again for all the input.

ken: here are some of the pics I took...just a sample.

http://picasaweb.google.com/clarasong3/PortugalAndCrossing08?authkey=Lz64FQelrxw#

p.s. Ken: look up my goofy 'trip report' under "Portugal for Dummies--an Oddessy." a few remembrances from our trip in Oct./nov 08.

Hi Ken,

I go to Portugal every year with my teen daughter (now 17). I'm originally from Cascais; 20 minutes south of Lisbon along Costa do Sol but have family all over Portugal. Your daughters would LOVE Algarve "Albufeira"; wonderful beaches and night life (for all ages). Lisbon of course and Porto. (Douro Valley for Mom and Dad....not sure how much the girls would enjoy it but I wouldn't skip it.)let's not forget Cascais and Estoril; EUR$8 short train ride from Lisbon. www.cp.pt has all your train schedules, maps and prices. Another great site to look at in Feb/March (when they post Summer schedules) is www.chequehotel.pt you can purchase vouchers for Hotel stays all over Portugal for a great savings. I will be going in mid-June for 2 weeks....visiting Algarve, Lisbon, Cascais, Coimbra, Porto & Guimaraes. I don't know that you would have enough time to visit Portugal and Spain in 18 days. Hope you have a wonderful trip.

Suggestion: shopping in Madrid.
Shopping in the cool Madrid's Soho:
http://www.fashionfromspain.com/icex/cda/controller/pageGen/0,3346,1549487_5857816_5857278_4019956_0,00.html

Charming shops in Madrid:
http://www.turismomadrid.es/COMU/DOCU/documento/tiendasEncanto_INGL.pdf

Late in replying, but plans have been evolving with the help of guardian travel angel, Stu, who has been incredibly generous with time, insights and info. We will be saving Portugal for a separate trip and instead spending July 21-Aug. 5 on the northern Spanish coast between the French border and Gijon. Likely doing 2 base camps (Hondarribia and Gijon) and doing day trips from there. Any and all advice on sights, best beaches and small towns, restaurants, shopping, places to hang out -- all welcome!

kdkahn writes: "...you've been very helpful and given good advice. (It doesn't hurt that my wife went to a wine-tasting last night -- it was all Spanish wines, but the distributor (native of Spain) highly recommended the northern coastal region of Spain, so it seems to be all tying in somehow."

I agree with your wine-merchant friend. My (wife's) cousin lives in Rosál, region near la Guardia (Pontevedra) in the Minho valley where the best Albariño comes from. If you have a chance to see José Andrés on Public TV, he always sings the praises of those wines

"... plans have been evolving with the help of guardian travel angel, Stu, who has been incredibly generous with time, insights and info. We will be saving Portugal for a separate trip and instead spending July 21-Aug. 5 on the northern Spanish coast between the French border and Gijon. Likely doing 2 base camps (Hondarribia and Gijon) and doing day trips from there. Any and all advice on sights, best beaches and small towns, restaurants, shopping, places to hang out -- all welcome!"

Be sure to have confirmed reservations! That time of year the north coast is very popular. The best beach on Mar Cantabrico is el Sardinero playa.

If you are a white knuckle driver and you want to do a daytrip to los picos de Europa National Park, you might want to take a Bus.

Santander, in particular Sardinero should be one of your 'base camps.' Nightly, on Avda. de Burgos: street entertainers & lots of young people.

Santander has its annual Festival de Santiago the week leading up to Jul 25, when the Apostle's Feast day is celebrated. In Santander there are daily Corridas de Toros, Public Concerts and shows and all the trappings that come with a Spanish Fiesta. SANTIAGO is one of the most important!

Nedsireland - Thanks for the response (after all this time). Good input! And thanks for the info on the Santiago festival. Sounds like the timing will work for us!

Separate question: What is your take on villa rentals versus Paradors? Are there reputable villa rental folks or is it pretty fragmented?

kdkahn writes: "Nedsireland - Thanks for the response (after all this time)."
I didn't consider it appropriate to comment until after you reduced the range to places with which I am familiar, like Santander.

"Separate question: What is your take on villa rentals versus Paradors? Are there reputable villa rental folks or is it pretty fragmented?"

I have not stayed at Fuenté Dé or Santillana del mar, or Limpias so I couldn't comment on those Paradors; but in general, Paradors are 5-star Hotels.
There are reputable Villa rental folks. Here's a link for you: http://www.galinor.es

We stayed at Hostal Paris in Sardinero our last trip; and Hostal Picos de Europa in Potes an earlier trip. I would recommend either but during the Fiesta de Santiago you might be more comfortable in town.

These are not dormitory-style youth Hostals! They are basically Hotels that for some reason don't qualify for a 3-Star rating (i.e., no full service restaurant or elevator or swimming pool). Hostal Paris is on the 'Beach block' behind Gran Hotel Sardinero and the Casino and it has limited parking spaces on the property.

Once, I stayed at a lady's who was soliciting potential customers at the Bus Station West exit steps. She would ask people exiting the Station if they were looking for a Pensión although 2-sleeping rooms was all she had. She had a License (Hotelier), which she showed me. The location was excellent, just around the corner from C/de Burgos (where the 'action' is).
BTW
Plan at least a day for Bilbao, not just for Frank Gehry's Guggenheim but for a Basque Cuisine lunch and a visit to Mercado Central and the Casco Viejo. I'm not into Modern Art, although I loved the Art of the Motorcycle when it was there.

More good info. As our plans have evolved, I am looking for a non-Parador (i.e., villa or apartment rental in either San Sebastian or Hondarribia). Any reputable companies you've dealt with or heard of (or bad ones to avoid!)?

does anyone know if they have bullfights in southern spain specifically the week of July 11th thru the 18th this summer 2009?
S.

BTW I am also going and taking my 15 year old daughter to spsain this summer....so excited!
S.

Hello all (again). The broad itinerary is finally in place! Girls are not yet excited (spouse definitely is, however), as one is waiting to hear from colleges and the other, well, it's not yet real to her.

The Plan:

Landing in Bilbao 24 July and driving to San Sebastian, where we're renting an apartment in the town for a week.

(Looking for advice on restaurants, good day trips -- Biarritz, wine country, Bilbao, Hondarribia -- share your favorites and stories).

Driving to Parador Cangas de Onis (east of Gijon and Oviedo, Pico de Europas) on 31 July, staying for 4 days.

Driving 4 August to Parador Santillana del Mare (Santander) for 1 night, before flying to London on 5 August. 24 hours in London before the flight home; staying near Paddington.

All input and insight welcome, as usual!

Ken