IMDonehere

Arrive Madrid-
If flights are on-time we have timed tickets for the Bosch Exhibit. Even though we are returning to Madrid, the exhibit will be over then.
One night at the Persal

Flight to Santiago
Week with family and friends in and around Santiago. No details on where we will go.

Return to Madrid for one night and will stay at Room Mate Alicia

Fly next morning for a week in Marrakesh.
Will attend a cooking a class and will take a tour into the mountains.
Other days open
Staying at the Riad Djebel

Return to Madrid for 8 days-Rental in Chueca
Two young cousins will fly down for the weekend.
Otherwise-Separate day trips to Toledo and Segovia (have not been back to either in 40 years)
In Segovia we will try to have roast suckling pig
In Toledo, we want to eat at the Parador because of the view
Rastro
Either Reina Sophia or Thyssen
Mecado San Miguel
Casa Hernanz-a must stop every time we are Madrid

We have kept your suggestions for tapas bars and restaurants in Madrid. If you have any for Santiago please pass them along.

Thanks for all suggestions which led to this.

kimhe

<If you have any for Santiago please pass them along.>

The Guia Repsol is always a good start, the Spanish equivalent to the Michelin guide except they know every town and place ten times better: https://www.guiarepsol.com/en/touris...ours/santiago/

Eight restaurants/tapas bars in Santiago are mentioned in the Guia Repsol. Two of them have got one sol/sun; https://www.guiarepsol.com/en/search...query=Santiago de Compostela&folders=

thursdaysd

Recommend a visit - even an overnight - in Essaouira from Marrakesh. Have you posted on the North Africa board? Enjoyed Salamanca a lot on my last trip to Spain.

kja

Are you committed to just a day trip to Toledo? I thought it easily worth at least 2 full nights and days....

Segovia is also worth an overnight if you are willing -- it is magical after day-trippers leave. (And yes, the suckling pig is extraordinary!)

The Reina Sophia <b>or</b> the Thyssen? Interesting. Apples or oranges, IMO.

Enjoy!

traveller1959

>> Fly next morning for a week in Marrakesh.
Will attend a cooking a class and will take a tour into the mountains.
Other days open
Staying at the Riad Djebel <<

Actually, I would not recommend spending more than two days in Marrakech - it is the least attractive of the four King Cities and rather overrun by tourists with all negative side effects of tourism, like corrupting the native population.

Better rent a car and drive over the Atlas. Essaouira has been mentioned - which is basically a European port town.

Behind the Atlas you find Ait Ben Haddou, a most picturesque village (still in reach of a daytrip from Marrakech). For me, one of the best attractions in Morocco.

If you drive further eastwards, you reach Dades Canyon and Todra Canyon, two very impressive canyons, which are quite different, so it is worth to see both of them. Also, on the way, you will drive through traditional towns and villages, bizarre desert landscape, oasises and along many impressive kasbahs. In Skoura, you find beautiful kasbahs.

You may also have a sand dune experience. There are two spots where you find sand dunes: Erg Chegaga and Erg Chebbi. I would recommend Erg Chebbi or Merzouga. The hotels there offer all services, including camel trips into the dunes with overnight sleeping in traditional tents (well, half-traditional: they have showers). Also, the drive towards Merzouga is extremely scenic.

Renting a car is no problem. The roads are in excellent condition (with very few exceptions which you can easily avoid) and infrastructure is good. Traffic is easy - as long as you do not be so crazy to drive INTO a medina (ignore your GPS if it suggests driving through a gate into Old Town).

BTW, the Africa forum is not too helpful, there are many commercial Fodorites who use to forum to sell their overpriced tours.

IMDonehere

Thank you all.

Thanks Kimhe for the restaurant recommendations.
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We are getting older and that is why are limiting our trip to Morocco to one city. During our last few trips, even in the easiest of countries to navigate like Belgium and The Netherlands, it became too much to hop from city to city and schlep our own luggage. We do not want to go on tours as we travel at our pace and see what we want to see and my wife likes to stop and do watercolors and I like to stare at something for no apparent reason.

I did not find the Fodor's Morocco board particularly helpful as there is little traffic there and I have a low regard for Trip Advisor.
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With the AVE, one day trips to Segovia and Toledo should be sufficient as staying overnight also produces extra costs for lodging and problems with luggage. We will probably take a late train back from Toledo, so we can see the city aglow. We spent our first anniversary in Toledo when Felipe II was still alive.
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As far as the chose of museums are concerned, although we will be Madrid for 8 days, our schedule is such that it might not allow for both the Reina Sofia and the Thyssen. We are aware that each has its own charms, but are still unsure which to visit.

I was to both in 2008 on way to meet my wife who had just finished the 500 mile Camino. We have also discussed this with her sister who is also an artist and she too has visited Spain many times, and as late as this past May. Right now, we are leaning toward the Thyssen but...
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And yes Salamanca is wonderful destination, but if we were to re-visit another city it would be Cuenca.
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Thank you all again for your suggestions and insights.

kimhe

Had one of the best/most powerful museum experiences ever in Reina Sofía a few years ago. The second floor with Picasso, Dalí, lots of other painitings, posters, films, photos etc., dealing with a couple of the greatest civilizational breakdowns of the 20th century, the Spanish Civil War and WWII, completely blew my mind.

Bedar

Huh ? When Felipe II was still alive ? Don't think so.

In any case, you will be traveling while it is still hot. Be careful. Take it easy. No rush to do anything. Have fun !

bilboburgler

If you've read the africa forum you'll have read my comments.

I think Marrakesh has at least 5 days activities in it. Heading into the Atlas can be fun but not like dropping into an ancient madrassa in town.

essouira, I spent a week there writing a website. not a bad place but Marrakesh is very good.

Staying in the souk, don't forget to visit the French quarter over by the new station. One fantastic old-style french restaurant over there.

There is a large water tank (Jardins de la Menara ) between town and the airport with the altas behing it that I spent a happy afternoon watercolouring and of course the main mosque's tower from the rose garden is a friendly place to sit and paint.

IMDonehere

Huh ? When Felipe II was still alive ? Don't think so.
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It is a joke, why are there so many literalists here who wait in the bushes for what they think is a mistake.

IMDonehere

Kimhe

We live in NYC where Guernica resided for decades and have seen it many times including the studies. But the last time I was at the Reina Sofia, they were showing a film collaboration between Dalí and Luis Buñuel that was spectacular.


There is a wonderful apocryphal story associated with Guernica. Some Nazis came to Picasso's atelier and the commander said, "Do you do this?"
And Picasso responded, "No, you did."

IMDonehere

Thanks Bilbo, I will go over to the Africa board.

maitaitom

"Right now, we are leaning toward the Thyssen but... "

Good choice, unless you're a big modern art fan. I liked what we read somewhere about the Thyssen...major works by minor artists and minor works by major artists. We loved it! Have a Spanish GinTonic for me.

traveller1959

Re: Marrakech

I take your point. Your riad will be pretty central in Marrakech Medina which is a labyrinth of narrow alleys.

Make sure to book airport transfers by the riad. It is not managable by your own and not by taxi.

From your Riad, you will be able to explore the Marrakech Medina on foot. Be aware that it requires quite a bit of walking (however flat). There are no taxis in the Medina and no ways of transport except on foot.

Most attractions of Marrekech will be within a radius of 1.5km maximum from Riad Djebel.

It can be quite challenging to find your way through the labyrinth of alleys. You will need your smartphone to guide you and a good, detailed map. Aware of "faux guides", false guides. They are everywhere, of all ages, always saying "it's closed" when they assume you want to go to a certain attraction. Of course they are lying when they open their mouths. If you let them lead you, they will make great detours in order to demand more money from you.

The rule is: never answer, never react, never look at them. Just ignore them (also they make it hard to ignore them). (My friend, who lives in Marrekech, always tells them "rather go to school", but I am not sure if you should do this as a tourist.)

IMDonehere

Thank you Tom.

The Thyssen is a most impressive once private collection as is the Reina Sofia Spanish-centric.

If I remember correctly, you had a proclivity for Spanish gin & tonics.

Bedar

Never realized you are a joker, IMD.

IMDonehere

Traveller

We made arrangements with the Riad to pick us up at the airport.

I am leery of all who want to lead me.

Thanks

maitaitom

"you had a proclivity for Spanish gin & tonics."

...and still do!

I'd love to see that Bosch Exhibit.

bilboburgler

The souk is pretty easy to get a handle on, it only takes a couple of days, once you know where the square is, the tannery and the three main parallelish paths the rest is easy. You'll find the locals can handle the basic 4 european languages with ease. I normally chatter along in French but they pretty soon realise you don't want hassle as long as you know where you are going. But if not, it can be a pain.. yep never look at them

What is interesting is that in and amongst the tat are some very posh little stores. Haggling; start at 1/10 they ask. If you don't want to haggle the government offers a shopping area where prices are fixed and a little bit up on what you can get in town. I have a whole load of linen shirts from there.

IMDonehere

Thanks Bilbo

My wife has been studying Egyptian Arabic and my French is the Brooklyn version, so we will hope for the best.

We are not shoppers, but we will probably get some spices and a tagine. There are a couple of Moroccan restaurants in the neighborhood and now we ready for versions at the mother country.