tazza_w

Hi, I'm in the very early stages of planning a 5 week trip mainly around Spain and Portugal beginning in Paris.

I'm a kiwi living in London and once my visa expires on Sep 10 I am getting a train to Paris. My mum is flying over and meeting me there the next day. We've both been to Paris before but it was the most convenient meeting/starting point for us. We are both flying back to NZ from Barcelona on Oct 16 so we have 35 nights in total from Sep 11.

This is my first bash at a rough itinerary and I would love some advice as I've never been to Spain (except a brief stay in Madrid) or Portugal before. We are keen to not be rushing around too much seeing all the sights as that can be exhausting (and mum is getting on a bit - I am 31 for context!). We'd like a mix of cities and country, both love beaches, and looking to keep things as economical as possible.

My main questions are: does the below plan look reasonable in terms of time spent in each place or should I make cuts and spend longer anywhere?

I'm going to have a lot of luggage so was trying to avoid flying if possible. Is train (or bus) travel going to be possible and straight forward between these places or does the route need altering? For example, I'm struggling to work out how to travel from San Sebastian to Porto as there doesn't seem to be any train connections?

Paris plus day trip 3 nights
(train to) Bordeaux 3 nights
(train to) San Sebastian 3 nights
Porto 3 nights
Lisbon & Sintra 4 nights
Seville & Cordoba 5 nights
Jerez/Cadiz 3 nights
Ronda 1 night
Costa del Sol? 3 nights
Granada 3 nights
Barcelona 4 nights

Many thanks in advance for any help/advice you can give a novice

massimop

The only way I can see to make your wish list work is take a bus from San Sebastian to Bilbao in order to fly to Malaga, and from there go by bus to Grenada and essentially do the itinerary backwards until you get to Porto, and then get on a plane for Barcelona.

Maybe someone else has a better idea (I'm presuming you don't want to rent a car)

massimop

Don't know if this to too expensive but: is there any way you can ship most of your things back to Australia? Even if you alter your itinerary to eliminate the need for flying, traveling with a lot of luggage by train & bus in Spain for most of September, when it can still be quite hot.

massimop

.. hit the button too soon. Point is, September in Spain can be really hot -- too hot to be carrying loads of luggage around.

Michael

Since the Iberian peninsula is your goal, skip Bordeaux and go directly to Hendaye via TGV. From Hendaye there is a commuter train to San Sebastian that departs from its own platform on the other side of the parking lot of the main train station. These are the rates I found for Sept. 14: https://www.trainline.eu/search/pari...17-09-14-10:00

If shipping luggage to Australia might turn out to be too expensive, might it be possible to ship it to Barcelona? Or perhaps rent a car for travels in the Spain and Portugal. Rates might be lower in September and make the rental competitive with train and bus travel. There is the inconvenience of parking in large cities. Already in 1985 driving in Seville was impossible; it took me half an hour to drive a few hundred yards from the parking structure back to the hotel to pick up our luggage because of the one-way streets, and that was with the help of a local guiding me. Check one-way rental rates with autoeurope.com. I believe that you can use your credit card to cover the CDW, which will lower the rental cost considerably.

Robert2016

Bordeaux is worth a few days and now that the high-speed train can get you there in record time, I'd keep it on your list.

massimop

Or here is one more idea:

Take the train to San Sebastian (stop in Bordeaux or not) and then rent a car or take a train to Barcelona. If driving, drop off the car at the Barcelona airport but even if taking a train, store your luggage at the Barcelona airport. Fly to Porto, do your wish list itinerary, ending up in Barcelona.

https://www.barcelona-tourist-guide....a-airport.html

Ryan Air flies Barcelona>Porto for less than 100e.

kja

If I’m reading correctly, you are counting transportation time in with your nights, so, for example, your 3 nights in Bordeaux include the time you have to get there. If so, then I think you are potentially shortchanging ALL of your destinations, as you lose a chunk of time each time you change locations. Each time you change locations, you need to consider not only the time for the transportation per se, but also time on either side for getting to/from your lodging, checking in/out, packing/unpacking, getting lost/oriented, etc. And in any multi-week itinerary, you are likely to be in some locations when everything is closed. For example, many things in Spain are closed on Monday, and often for all or part of Sundays too; and many things in Spain will also be closed daily for a very long mid-day break.

Beyond that, whether your allocation of times is right depends on what YOU want to see and experience, but IMO, your time in both Paris and Barcelona seems very short. And if you are looking for a trip that doesn’t involve rushing around, I must admit that I don’t think you’ve hit the right pace – this trip would have you moving around a LOT will relatively little time to actually see the things that makes these places so special. JMO….

I'm sure you'll have some wonderfully memorable moments no matter what you choose!

PalenQ

I'm struggling to work out how to travel from San Sebastian to Porto as there doesn't seem to be any train connections?>

there is still I believe an overnight train between the two and Porto/Lisbon (train splits)- no thru daytime connections so either night train or fly.

Lisbon & Sintra 4 nights

No direct train but there are buses I believe but another where you may fly- a good train/bus link is to take a train to Faro and catch direct bus to Seville.

Seville & Cordoba 5 nights
Jerez/Cadiz 3 nights
Yes trains easy to all

Ronda 1 night - buses between Seville and Ronda go via the iconic white villages - I did it and took about a half day - buses stop in a few villages but not for long. May want to check trains from Cordoba.

Costa del Sol? 3 nights
Trains from Ronda to Malaga

bus or train to Granada

Granada 3 nights

may be an overnight train still if not put Madrid in as a stopover and go by train - direct train would be all day. I really liked Valencia - consider stopping there to break up long journey to Barcelona from Granada

Barcelona 4 nights

OK if doing those many trains check out the Spain Railpass - for great info on trains check www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

PalenQ

Oh www.bahn.de/en - the German Railways site has easy to reference schedules for all European trains (not buses unless part of rail system) - check the Budget Europe web site I gave above as on its home page is a box telling how to use the www.bahn.de/en site - many useful tips that may not be apparent at first encounter.

massimop

Some people might not like to move around as much your itinerary, but you are actually spending more nights in most placest than most people do given the same list, with the possible exceptions of Lisbon & Barcelona (since you've both been in Paris before) For example, few people spend 3 nights in Grenada or 5 nights in Sevilla. In terms os sightseeing, 3 days in San Sebastian is plenty for most travelers (and most people would do a daytrip for one of those days). And these are people who have traveled from elsewhere and will be moving on to another tourist location.

I do think you will need to factor in doing laundry at least once mid-trip unless you are willing to pay have it done for you. An apartment rental in Lisbon might be the best way to make that happen.