Spain in October with 2 children (2 and 4 years old)

why vejer? lovely little town but interesting choice

A friend who had been to Vejer recommended it. As I had mentioned, this will be our first big trip with our children and wanted to spend one half of our vacation in a small town. No other specific plans but was hoping to find a place where we could relax, perhaps do a little hiking (easy hiking), see the country-side and maybe allow the kids to play in the park and make some new friends.

If you have any other recommendations, or perhaps any comments as to why Vejer would not be a good choice, we would appreciate it.

Thanks

I tink you've got the right idea in focusing on the costa de la Luz: Costa del sol is busy, not very attractive and hard bto get around by car; there are individual towns worth considering eg Ronda, Casares, Frigiliana, even Nerja but on the whole you're better off in Cadiz province.
Vejer is very pretty, but has some big drawbacks:
* parking in near impossible in the old town even out of high season; and if you do drive into the old town you'll have a nightmare though you'll provide some locals with a few laughs as you try to extricate yourself from ever-narrowing streets
*Vejer is high on a hill: fantastic defensive position but not exactly easy to get in and out of; it takes a good 10 mins to get to the main roads at the foot of the hill
* there are two Vejers on the town's two hills; the old town is the pretty, whitewashed, touristy bit...frozen in time. the other vejer is pretty ugly but it's the modern town, where locals live
* pretty vejer has good (and quite expensive) restaurants, nice knick knack shops; designer jewellery stores, a handful of bars and, er, that's about it. Many of the houses are owned by foreign residents or by foreigners who use them as holiday homes. consequently, there's not much life nor atmosphere
* i forgot the wind. the levante (east wind) bows from the Sahara from time to time. It's warm air (hot in summer) and unpleasant whenever it arrives - and can blow for a week or more. Vejer is of course in an elevated position so cops it full on, though you are protected in the labyrinthine alleys deep in the town.
*I actually like Vejer but these are reasons why i wouldn't live there and probably wouldn't holiday there with little children.
* if you still want to i can dig out some villa suggestions, though many have pools which you won't use in october and, frankly, wouldn't want access to with a 2yo and 4yo (mine are just 5 and almost 2)
veher does have good access to beaches - long, lovely ones which will be more or les deserted in oct so if the weather's fine they will be just the ticket (for the kids if not you). but that's true of many places along the c de la luz.

My suggestion, given that you're lookin g for somewhere for a week or so would be El Puerto de Santa Maria (and not because I live there). I would even suggest a specific place to stay - we'll come to that.
Puerto is a fairt size (c 80,000 pop) but doesn't have a congested feel. What is does have is:
easy access to the coto donana natural park, europe's biggest wetlands, at sanlucar about 20 mins drive away; the grazalema mountains in the north of cadiz province are under 90 mins away - this is white village country, which actually starts at arcos de la frontera, about 40 mins away - a spectacular town on a clifftop; jerez, lovely small city is 15 mins down the road. sherry, horses, elegant city centre, moorish castle, flamenco (though probably not with the kids)...lots there; cadiz is just across the bay. beautiful old city, lots to see and do and maybe your best option in the province for parks (you need to know that the spanish don't really do recreational parks in the way we know them); there are beaches in the city, sights galore and, as in el puerto, plenty of good eating options including top fish restaurants of course.
there's excellent walking in the marshland natural parks on the edge of Puerto (easy wa;lking, and you can hire bikes incl baby seats at weekends in autumn), there are half a dozen beaches in puerto, you can catch the steamer ferry from there to cadiz.
vejer is 45 mins away and very do-able in a day

as for accom los jandalos hotel in the vistahermosa area www.jandalos.com and cick on vistahermosa option is a good base. all our family stay there; it's a v decent hotel but importantly has good family apartments (they were around €100 a night this spring, including two beds and good sized bathroom and sitting room; you can ask for one overlooking the central lawn/pool area (pool won't be in use as all spanish outdoor pools only operate june 1-sept 15 at most).

as for the rest of your trip, yes to sevilla\, three nights min but consider a night less in madrid - unless you have a specificagenda. there's not that much there for families...

shout if you need more info

we found a good selection of apartments in madrid on friendly rentals.com and spainselect.com. they have two bedroom places so your kids can have a separate room and you will also have a kitchen. you can search by area or speak to them by phone if you want to request a more child friendly place by the park.

and have fun!!!

I would certainly check out www.VRBO.com/madrid You can substitute any city or town for Madrid. We've rented a lovely apartment in the center of Madrid for less than a hotel, and it has a washer/dryer, and room to spread out. The Vacation Rental by Owner site, works almost around the world, where ever you want to go.

forgot to add...you can fly from madrid to jerez with iberia and possibly vueling...won't cost much. that way you hire a car from jerez (small airport, much easier & return it there before getting a taxi to jerez railway station (guess €15-20 max) and getting the train to sevilla, where you so don't want a car and don't want to return one) and from then, by train back to madrid

friendlyrentals.com
and
spain-select.com

sorry - had them wrong before.

We visited Sevilla in April with our 3 kids who were 8, 6, and 6 months at the time.

We stayed at http://www.sevillaloft.com ("Sevilla Lofts") for 5 nights. We ended up adding and extra night because we loved the accommodations and location. I wouldn't stay in Madrid with 2 kids for any nights (but that's just me). I don't really care for the "big city" feel of Madrid. We loved Sevilla. Just strolling through the streets and visiting the parks.

We stopped in Toledo for 2 nights on our way from Sevilla to Madrid for our flight out. We took the train from Toledo to the Madrid main train station and then got a cab to the airport. It was fairly simple.

Ditto that you won't want a car in Sevilla. I dropped our stuff and kids at the apartment, then returned the car to the railway station in Sevilla.

I'd be happy to answer any questions.

Thanks to everyone for your very informative responses. I have decided to forgo time in Madrid and spend more time in Sevilla. Thanks to the advice from portuense I have decided against Vejer as a base.

I had not looked into Puerto before you had mentioned it. Puerto does sound like a nice town and a wonderful base to explore the province. With that, however, I have also started to look around some more and have found some potentially interesting places in Huelva. This again would be quite different from staying in Puerto and I am torn. Here is what I am looking at.

1) Puerto - This is probably first on my list so far. Do you have any other hotel or apartment suggestions? If not are there any particular neighborhoods that you would recommend looking into to stay in (or any that you would suggest avoiding)? Another option I was thinking of is staying in the outlying areas around Puerto, perhaps in a smaller village. Any recommendations for that?

2) In Huelva, I have started to look at the area of Aracena and the small villages in the Sierra de Aracena. I have found some 'agritourism' sites that seems very attractive. I was thinking about spending our 6 nights in one of these lodgings and exploring that area. One lodging I had contacted however did warn me that October is a rainy time of year there (quite surprised at how honest they were!). Any thoughts about Huelva and suggestions for agritourism lodgings?

3) Finally, I have started looking at Ronda another town that was mentioned. Given that the town looks stunning and it is situated in the Grazelma area it sounded like a good base for exploring for a week as well. Any thoughts about Ronda and suggestions for places to stay? Also, would you have the same concerns about Ronda that you did for Vejer?

In regards to Sevilla - thanks for the suggestion for Sevillaloft. Do you have any recommendations for neighborhoods that you liked in Sevilla that would also be good to look at for staying?

Thanks to all for your advice.

there are other hotels in el puerto - hotel monasterio san miguel is on the edge of the old town but more costly, at i think from €150 pn for a room. in the centre, casa de los leones is an old urban palace which doubles as a kind of museum; it's v nice but a bit traditional in furnishings (ie heavy dark wood, tiled floors all the way) and not really what you'd call luxurious. it's almost next to the produce market which is great but you might tire of the early morning noise, though there are greta cafes all around. parking would not be terribly easy there, though there are public car parks nearby, but of course you pay for those.
i don't think you can get better than los jandalos in puerto. i've had a look online at rental options and there are a fair few apartments around but in oct i would advise against anything in puerto sherry, the marina area (bit bleak and isolated out of summer) or valdelagrana beach (ditto, and not v nice buildings there). there is one palacio which crops up a lot (painted pink) - looks nice but it's on one of the main streets above the river and traffic noise would be bad, long into the night.
There aren't really villages around puerto. you have cadiz ac ross the bay - lovely but not the best for travelling around or even getting in and out of...jerez - lots to recommend it but it is a city so if you don't want that...(mind you there are some reasonable apartment rental options around)...other than that, you have sanlucar de barrameda just round up the coast. this is a great place - mouth of the guadalquivir river so a good beach, lovely stretch of top class fish restaurants at one end, access by ferry to the donana national park and the beaches opposite, great old town on two lelels (and lots of sherry bodegas, like puerto and jerez). in the town itself driving is a nightmare but you can stick to the waterfront areas. the fishing port, bonanza (yes, really) is just up river and it's good to watch the boats coming in in the afternoon. beyond that is a natural park - pine forests with lots of cycling/walking possibilites and red kites flying over your head; actually the whole area teems with fantastic bird life, esp in autumn. have a think about sanlucar - if you're interested i can give some hotel options.

boys are getting restless so will post the rest later...

...continuing...alternatively, if you felt up to it, you could split your time in the area between two sites; more chopping and changing, but would give you the option of seeing two very different faces of southern spain.
if you took that option you could stay somewhere in the mountains - maybe ronda or even somewhere smaller, quieter but within reach of ronda, which might be a good idea.
Ronda has plenty of possibilities. it is a beautiful town with a stunning old town and a fair few options for kids - walk down to the roman baths and back up through the neew town; there is a park of sorts that overlooks the cliffs; countryside is within easy reach; but it is very up and down so not sure it's so easy for little ones. hotels are many and generally good quality, and lots of eating options. again, let me know and i can recommend some.
alternatively, you could try the towns (villages) of Grazalema or Zahara de los Atunes. Grazalema is small, very pretty and has one very decent hotel on the main square, Puerta de la Tierra. Zahara is spectacular - overlooked by a castle you can scramble up to and tumbling down the mountainside to a reservoir. here, there are a couple of ok accom possibilites but by far the best is Al Lago, which overlooks the lake (of course) and is a restaurant with rooms; run by an American chef and his Anglo/Indian wife; they are effectively New Yorkers with cuisine and attitudes to match and have kids of their own. The rooms were added this year and are really tasteful and not expensive www.al-lago.es . whether you stay or not, do try to eat there on the terrace.
those three options give you a great chance to tour the area, the white villages, the beautiful countryside etc.
I don't know Sierra de Aracena too well; it is lovely countryside but not sure there's anything for kids esp if it's raining. Huelva as a whole is not the most exciting province (unless you are a ham freak in which case it's pretty much the centre of the world, though of course you can get jamon serrano or iberico in practically any bar in spain).
in my opinion you'd be better off being south of sevilla.
one other possibility, the town of medina sidonia, about 25 mins inland, halfway between the coast and arcos; white, but not on the white town trail, it is a quietly charming very spanish town; not too much to see but a good base and there is one very good guesthouse, casa de medina, run by a couple of brits who again have small children.
all these places mentioned are on the internet. if you need more specific dets let me know - should have more time to dig out websites for you on mon/tues.
incidentally, what are your plans re car hire - can suggest there too if not already fixed

Thanks for the thoughts. I think I am approaching a final decision (good thing since we are leaving soon!) I am trying to force myself to choose one base. Although I would love to explore both of the areas you mention I think that it would be too much with the kids.

I have looked into Sanlucar and it seems very nice. Zahara also beautiful (and I have already contacted the hotel you suggested there). That said I think I am going to focus on either1) Puerto, (2) Sanlucar or (3)Zahara. I am starting to get different hotel and apartment rental options and will make a decision based on the accommodations that look most promising (and reasonable).

That said, I would love to follow-up with you for more information:

(1) Can you recommend some more hotels, apartment rentals or casas rurales in Sanlucar? Also, which part of town would you suggest, Barrio Alto or Barrio Bajo? Both Sanlucar and Puerto seem like resort towns. Which town retains more life in the off season?

2) Can you recommend any other casas rurales in Zahara or places to stay in Ronda?

3) Car rental - please do suggest good sites for car rentals. (Unfortunately I will need to rent an automatic.) The best rates I have seen so far are from a company called andulaciacar.com. Are you familiar with them?

If I were to decide to forgo a rental car how hard would it be to get around? I feel as if I will rent a car but I was wondering what the possibilities are without one if I were to stay in Puerto or Sanlucar? It seems as if the public transportation to Cadiz, the national park, Jerez and the like are pretty good.

Thanks again

hi there
sanlucar hotels: tartaneros (calle tartaneros 8; 956 362 044)is a great if wacky place - lobby full of stuffed animals, seacaptain's chests etc; it's on the edge of the big paseo leading from the main square to the beach. not new, so may not be ideal for little ones - it's very much a meeting place too.
i have seen hotel posada del palacio in old palace pasadadelpalacio.com which is tastelful and seems quiet and too v expensive. set around a patio. this might be your best option - in the lower town but not too far in.
there's also los helechos hotelloshelechos.com which i gather is decent - some guide books make it top option for sanlucar

you definitely want the lower part (b arrio bajo) of town and not too far into the maze. that way you can park nearby and just dip in and out as you choose. and you ca always stroll up the hill to the barrio alto.

i would say puerto has a bit more going for it in terms of year-round busyness though both are working towns. puerto also gives you more access options for other places as i explained in a previous post but you should have a great time in either.

will getback to you in 24 hrs on places to stay ronda/zahara - they won't book up for oct so no worry there.

you do need a car i think. public transport is good but if you want to get off the beaten track you've had it so it's best to rent even if you don't use it all the time.

again, i'll give you some suggestions tomorrow (or later today if i have time)

whoops - make that not too expensive in posada del palacio!

in ronda your best option is hotel san gabriel www.hotelsangabriel.com - pretty much everything about it is right. check reports on eg trip advisor. everyone seems to like it and i can confirm it's a lovely little hotel. if you can't get in there try Enfrente Arte www.enfrentearte.com which is a smart guesthouse - think it's run by belgians, in an old inn. don't opt for the parador. greta location, lovely old facade but hideously modern inside. just have a drink o0n the terrace.
there are good restaurants in ronda though some are expensive but lots of choice and good tourist offices either side of the plaza de toros.
in zahara there is arco de la villa at the top of town run by a regional government organisation www.tugasa.com/index2.htm. good location but not too much character. i would go for al lago every time.
re cars at jerez...holiday autos and auriga crown are the cheaper options. maybe goldcar (have used them recently and service was good). there are also a couple of more expensive options - hertz, avis etc. goldcar is a good bet first off.
one v good tip: don't necessarily opt for hotel breakfasts. there's nothing more enjoyable than breakfast in a venta/bar. if you're interested i'll dig out some detailed info on this

We returned from our wonderful trip some time ago and the memories of sunny Spain are good to have as we watch the snow fall now.

I wanted to say thank you to everyone who provided such fabulous advice in this forum as well as to share some of our thoughts from the trip. If anyone is interested in particulars please let me know and we would be happy to share.

So, in a couple of paragraphs here is a quick summary of our 2 week adventure in Spain with 2 children...

1) Itinerary: We spent 4 nights in Seville, 6 nights in Sanlucar de Barrameda and 3 nights in Madrid - we found this to be a great mix of places between big cities and small towns without too much moving about. i had a tough time choosing where to stay in the Cadiz province but finally settled on Sanlucar. A lovely little seaside resort with a primarily Spanish tourism base from what I could tell. Not much in terms of historical sites but it did have a lovely square (of course), quaint pedestrian streets and old part of town and quiet beaches within walking distance.

2) Transportation: We took the AVE between Madrid and Seville; rented a car in Seville for our week in Sanlucar - all of these super easy (if only transportation in the US could be so easy!)

3) Lodging: Private rental apartments in all locations. This is the first time that I have stayed in private rental apartments. The accommodations were exactly what I expected based upon the websites where we did the rentals from, the owners were gracious and helpful and the space to spread out was invaluable. No doubt the way to go when traveling with children. Which leads us to the next point...

4) babysitters - in each city the apartment owners were able to recommend babysitters (that they themselves used or knew from friends). Although our children do not speak a lick of Spanish and the babysitters did not speak English it worked wonderfully. The kids had fun and my wife and I had a chance to relax and explore on our own.

5) Other items - (a) strollers - we were debating between bringing a double stroller (phil and teds) and decided on just 2 cheap umbrella strollers. Hands down that was the way to go. With small streets and even smaller sidewalks even our narrow double stroller would not have made it down the streets. in addition, getting the small umbrella strollers into tiny restaurants was not a problem; (b) diapers - buy in Spain...no need to bring from the US...

As all of the commentators have noted about the country, Spain is a wonderfully child friendly place to visit. Having spent 2 weeks there I fully agree. Our children were welcome in all restaurants regardless of the time. in the streets, in cafes, at the airport the staff were super accommodating (to the point that we almost missed our flight back as the kids were having such fun with one of the employees at the gift shop...)

If you are thinking about travel to Spain with 2 little kids....do IT!