briankayla

was hoping for some last minute insight. Had a trip planned and last minute glitch. New plan is airbnb spots and 14 nights in spain.

planned 1 night Madrid, night train to Lisbon for 2 nights. flight to Barcelona for 4 nights. drive back to Madrid, with a few stops on way.,, likely Pamplona and bilboa, with last 4-5 nights in Madrid.

any thoughts? Too ambitious? any ideas re drive from Barcelona to Madrid?

thanks all!

IMDonehere

Take a look at a map and see where you want to go and then the distances and remember you will lose a minimum of 1/2 day every time you change a city.

Best way between Madrid and Barcelona is the high speed train AVE.

Sassafrass

Did the drive once from Barcelona to Madrid - absolutely never again!
Suggest you strongly reconsider the long distance and cost to Lisbon to spend only two days.
Have you been to Spain or Portugal before?
When is the trip? Time of year and weather is a consideration.
What are your major interests - history, food, art, scenery, etc?
What time do you land in Madrid? Where are you coming from? Usually, it is better not to split time in a city, better for example to put all your time in Madrid at the end or beginning.
Are fights booked? If not, it would be better to fly multi-city, fly into Madrid and home from Barcelona.

I have used airbnb at the last minute with very good results.

nytraveler

Definitely do open jaws flights to avoid circling back to Madrid.

Also IMHO you have a LOT Of time in Madrid (which is a place I really don't like very much - think 3 days is plenty including a day trip to Toledo).

briankayla

thank you guys very much for the input
we have been to spain, a tour with just me and wife about 8 yrs ago, also not a major fan of Madrid, esp in aug, but as you guys mention, better to not run too crazy re multiple cities, and we fly in and out of Madrid (best flights from NY on frequent flyer miles). so we figured first night, low expectations, get settled then hit Lisbon by night train

so the drive from barcalona to Madrid is terrible. that is too bad. Still Barcelona seems like the coolest city in spain, and flying in from Madid and out gets expensive.

we are open to all in terms of activities. HS senior and a daughter going to start college when we come back. they have done a tour of Europe with me before, and travel really well. Will definitely appreciate SOME museums, FEW churches,, many dinners, people watching, beach in Barcelona, working their Spanish.,, and hopefully hanging with pops on one last vaca while in HS.

Air BNB looks awesome. the person with the house swap is back on line, for Huelva. nice place with a pool. but this sounds a lot more interesting and dynamic

Thank you for the responses!

I will take any other feedback/advice!

annhig

IMO there is no point in going to Lisbon for 2 nights - if you're going I'd think of 4-5, then fly to Barcelona and stay there or thereabouts for the rest of the trip,

OR

from Madrid, pick up car and drive north via the Picos di Europa and the gallician coast to Barcelona, [or you could go via Rioja if you prefer] then AVE train to Madrid and home.

briankayla

thanks ann
always wanted to see Lisbon
do you think 2 nights, 3 days, is not enough? From what I've heard, it should be?

then might as well fly to Barcelona from Lisbon, not much more expensive than trains, and much faster? then only driving will be slowly making way back to Madrid via Pamplona, bilbao, with chill out time in Madrid to relax, read, eat, hang out with family??

jamikins

2 nights = 1 full day, not 3!

I wouldn't bother for that amount of time.

Robert2533

"From what I've heard, it should be?" You've heard wrong!

Exactly which route are you planning on taking from Barcelona to Pamplona, then on to Bilbao before heading south to Madrid? How much time are you allowing for this drive as, theoretically, you've already accounted for 12 of your planned 14 nights, not including travel time.

bilboburgler

Just because Portugal looks small doesn't mean there is only a little to do in it. Lisbon needs at least a couple of days, then there are some great towns/cities to visit relatively near by.

I suspect you need to focus with this small amount of time

annhig

lisbon is a capital city [one on my to do list so i can't help with exactly what there is to do there] but surely almost any capital must be worth at least 3 full days; if you did run out of things to do, you could always do a day trip.

then fly to Barcelona [at least 3 days, so that's another 4 nights] then Pamplona AND Bilbao AND Madrid? I put Barcelona to Madrid via Pamplona and Bilbao into google maps and got a total drive time of nearly 10 hours - 4 1/2 to P'lona, another hour to Bilbao and 4 1/2 to Madrid. so that's 2 days' driving before you've seen anything. i don't think that you're going to have much time left in Madrid.

briankayla

great advice
thanks

may be better to plan more time in Lisbon, and we will see if that will be worth it,, and take train from Barcelona back to Madrid. I don't plan on leaving the city (ie the cities/towns nearby) as we won't have a car there. And if it is such a hot spot to spend time in,, there is always next year.


Again, in summer, I don't remember Madrid needing that much time,, but easier to relax at the end of the trip, and plan more days there at the end. I agree with NYtraveler re time in Madrid.


any constructive input on the availability of trains Barcelona to madrid

annhig

brian, there are several recent threads about Madrid - here's one that i liked a lot.:

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...and-london.cfm

like Lisbon there is probably enough easily to fill three days but if you were bored you could do a day trip to see the Estoril, for example, or even Toledo. Otherwise it has the most wonderful museums [air conditioned!] the palacio real, the cathedral, the Retiro Park, several gardens, the opera, beautiful boulevards and shops, a terrific plaza mayor, fantastic tapas and flamenco bars.

Barcelona is also full of things to see, Gaudi and otherwise, and there are similarly a few day trips that you can do by train if you want to get out of the city.

if you split your time 3 ways between these three cities, I think that you could have a pretty good trip.

briankayla

Ann, thank you very much. I am going to cut it down a bit, and expand a day more in Lisbon.
2 night Madrid 3 nights Lisbon, 4 nights Barcelona, I am not sure if I will drive to Madrid, with 1 night somewhere mid way with 4 more in Madrid or straight back to Madrid.

I really appreciate the help!
thanks

annhig

brian - the normal fodor's mantra is to put the whole of your stay in your place of departure at the end of the trip. This puts you in the right place for going home and is more efficient in using your time. however, if you've just done a transatlantic flight, I understand why you might not feel like flying straight to Lisbon, though it is a good way of using a day when you may be tired and suffering from jetlag.

I still feel that given you are not all that struck with Madrid, you are favouring it at the cost of other places. 3 nights in Lisbon will only give you 2 days, and 4 nights in Barcelona gives you 3 days, yet you're giving Madrid potentially 6, albeit split into two periods.

Can I suggest the following alternatives
Day 1 - arrive Madrid. Fly straight to Lisbon. stay in Lisbon for 4 nights
Day 2- Lisbon [gives you 3 whole days].
Day 5- fly to Barcelona. Stay 5 nights/4 whole days.
Day 10 - hire car and drive to? stay 2 nights
Day 12 - train to Madrid. stay 3 nights /2 days
Day 15 - fly home.

or this:

Day 1 - arrive Madrid, stay 2 nights, 1 day.
Day 3 - fly to Lisbon stay 4 nights [gives you 3 whole days].
Day 7 - fly to Barcelona. Stay 5 nights/4 whole days.
Day 12 - train to Madrid. stay 3 nights /2 days
Day 15 - fly home.

There are many variations on these themes! You can always arrange day trips by train when you are there - any decent guide book will have suggestions.

enjoy your trip - and your planning!

briankayla

I agree totally ann, thank you very much!
I was thinking the overnight sleeper train to Lisbon first night, but figured, let them get settled and rest, so overnight 1st night Madrid first night, then Lisbon second night

I love your plan
again. thanks very much!
Brian

annhig

my pleasure, Brian. IME it's much easier to look at other people's plans and see where the snags are than it is to look at your own. if you don't mind just a night in Madrid to start off with [and opinion is divided about whether that's a good idea or not] then your plan should work well.

settled and rested with kids is always a good idea; tempers tend to fray less after a good night's sleep.

Lexma90

I think your revised itinerary looks good. DH, DD and I visited Madrid several years ago, prepared to not like it very much; but actually we really enjoyed our time there.

Your adult and almost-adult kids should be at good ages to enjoy the tapas bar scene with you, especially if they speak Spanish. Our strategy was to go to the bars on the (unfashionably) early side; that way the waiters and servers had more time to help us a bit if we needed it, in deciding what to order and the like.

briankayla

thanks for input Lex, and Ann,. My kids will love the tapas bar scene. After 4 years of Spanish in HS,, they better be able to communicate to some degree! That was the reason I chose spain.

annhig

brian, we found that particularly in the evening we were having tapas instead of a full meal. it's fun to move round from bar to bar and see what they've each got. you'll soon get the hang of what is on offer in any particular place. if there's something you particularly like you can order a "racion" or even a "porcion" of most tapas.

i don't know how important budgeting is to you, but if you want to you can save quite a lot by having a main meal at lunch time when in Spain at any rate, nearly all restaurants offer a menu del dia which is usually 2-3 courses with a drink and coffee for €10-15, depending on where you are. it's also a good way of spending the hottest part of the day when lots of things close.