Fly3r

Hi Everyone,

My wife and I along with my two kids (6yo and 1.5yo) will be arriving in Barcelona in mid March next year and departing from Amsterdam in about four weeks time. We are looking for everyone input on how we can manage the trip as enjoyable and relaxing as possible since the kids will hold us up more than anything else. We love the outdoors and visiting old towns and villages with local characters and foods of course. Also love hidden gems that obviously less touristy and less travelled. I am thinking of spending 1.5 or 2 weeks down south before moving up as the weather hopefully better approaching April and catch the flower show in Amsterdam.

This is the third time we go to Europe but has never been to Spain or regional France. Some of the itinerary we are looking at is: SPAIN: Barcelona, Madrid, Granada, Cordoba, and seeing Alhambra. Then to FRANCE: Lourdess, Provence, Arles, Avignon, and if possible Nice. Then we plan to go north through ?Lyon? or other interesting cities and perhaps seeing Mont St Michael, Rouen, and Paris Disneyland through to maybe Dinant or Bruges in BELGIUM, continues to Rotterdam and finally Amsterdam.

My first thought regarding transportation is to take train within Spain then to Avignon or surroundings before renting a car to drive up north till Rouen. At this stage, we skip Paris altogether since we have been there before and bypass it to go to Disneyland.

My specific questions are:
1. What cities are interesting to look at along the way including in Netherlands? We went to Strasbourg and love it. Also Siena in Italy was gourgeous.
2. Also destination that are for kids or kids-friendly
3. We plan to stay in apartment with cooking facility, so we can quickly cook up food especially for the little one. Is this a good option? I know it will be time consuming but if the kids are happy, we definitely will have more enjoyable time.
4. We leased a car four years ago and drove from Rome to Paris and we find it work really well to stay outside capital city and get in with public transport. We want to try this method too although now our hands will be busier with the two kids. What town or cities in France we can use as transit for the bigger cities such as Provence, Avignon, Rouen?
5. What is the best way to reach Bruges or Dinant from Rouen? I am still weighing which one to visit as I am not sure if I will have time to visit both of them. Where should I drop off the car so I can make use of it till the border before changing to train?

Any suggestions are more than welcome or anything that I mentioned not worth visiting, please say so.

Thanks a lot.
Regards,
Fly3r

Tulips

Hi Fly3r, that sounds like a lot of traveling, you listed about 14 cities, in 30 days.
I would do a week in southern Spain (or Barcelona, not both), a week to 10 days in either Provence OR Normandy/Brittany. Go to Disney Paris, drop the car in Lille the next day and take a train to Brugge (rather than Dinant). Rent a car and spend some time in Belgium, before continuing to the Netherlands.

Try to fit in a visit to the Efteling in the Netherlands. For small kids I think it's nicer than Disney. The kids would love to stay in the small houses in Bosrijk.
http://www.efteling.com/nl/bosrijk/v...e-aan-het-meer

If you want to go a bit off the beaten tourist path, stay in the area of the Efteling and visit Den Bosch, and maybe Breda.

Fly3r

Hi Tulips, thank you for your input. Yes I may be too ambitious to cover many cities but I was just thinking to spend a short time in each of them along the way, maybe get some pictures before moving on to the area we really want to explore. However I see your point and we ll cut down some of them. We will definitely look into your suggestion, Efteling looks wonderful. I'm wondering if flying from avignon to Paris is justified, and better option as it will cut down some traveling time.

Thanks a lot.
Regards,
Fly3r

Tulips

From Avignon to Paris i'd take the train. If you want to go to Disney, there are usually good connections to Marne la Vallee. Try to visit outside of the Easter holidays - definitely not the Easter weekend!

You can turn in your rental car in Avignon, train to Disney and train to Belgium after that. There's a good service between Disney and Brussel.

StCirq

Flying to Avignon from Paris will definitely not cut down on the traveling time. The train is cheap and takes under 3 hours, way faster than getting to the airport, going through security, flying, waiting for bags, getting into the city from the airport. Nope, take the train.

I also think you're going to be run ragged on this schedule with young kids.

And I'm not picturing how you're going to fit Lourdes into this trek or where the car rentals originate. You do know, I trust, that picking up a rental car in one country and dropping it off in another incurs a whopping extra fee.I can't tell from your proposed itinerary where these car rentals occur, but do keep it in mind.

hetismij2

Efteling can be pretty scary for young kids. I have seen some absolutely terrified in the Sprookjesbos (fairytale wood), and many of the rides are for older children and adults. Most of it is in Dutch only too.
It quickly becomes an expensive and frustrating day out.

Tulips

My kids loved it when they were little. The park is pretty in spring too.

PalenQ

5. What is the best way to reach Bruges or Dinant from Rouen?>

Taking a train back thru Paris or if you have a car drive to Lille to drop it off (avoiding steep drop fees for other countries) and take regional trains Lille to Bruges.

By train from either Dinant or Rouen it is much faster to go via Paris and take the Thalys train to Brussels with the ABS fare to Bruges (this comes with the Thalys ticket if you request it I think - 5 euros or so and then take any train to Bruges within 24 hours of your Thalys train arriving in Brussels.

Bruges to Amsterdam by train - go via Antwerp and change there to either Thalys or IC trains to Amsterdam.

Thalys trains have a Byzantine fare structure - early birds get big fat worms - www.thalys.com - for lots of good info on trains in France and Benelux check www.seat61.com - great info on discounted tickets; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.

PalenQ

What is the best way to reach Bruges or Dinant from Rouen? I am still weighing which one to visit as I am not sure if I will have time to visit both of them.>

Have only been to Dinant for a quick look and great natural area around it but Bruges is so so exceptional IMO that I'd do it first and it is also much more on your way to Amsterdam from Rouen - again drive to Lille then train to Bruges - Bruges is 3.5 hours by train or less to Amsterdam.

StCirq

Are we talking about Dinan or Dinant or even Dinard? It's hard to tell when PalenQ is involved.

I don't consider Bruges exceptional. It was 25 years ago. Now it's teeming with tourists and overpriced as a result. It has great beer - so does every Belgian town. It's very "cute, which can be captured in any number of European venues. Nice historical sites if you don't mind lining up to get into them. In the off season a real treasure. In mid-summer, a suffocating crowd.

Give me Ghent or Utrecht anyday. And especially the Hieronymous Bosch exhibit in Den Bosch, for us at end of March, beginning of April.

Fly3r

Thanks guys for all your suggestions, I can picture it more clearly in my head how I go about those places.
Yes, going by train sounds the best option from avignon to Paris.
So the first draft of the itinerary could go something like this:
- South Spain 7 days with local train for day trips then take train to avignon or aix en provence. What train do i need to take from Barcelona to aix en provence?
- provence 7 days explore by car to avignon, arles, Vernon, etc. Doable? Then train to Paris n spend 3 days to Disneyland n surrounding.
- rent car to explore Normandy for 5 days and drop it off in lille. Take train to bruges, is this via Brussel? Is staying in Brussel then day trip to bruges better in term of accommodation cost and starting point to go to Amsterdam? (3 days)
- then train to Amsterdam to catch the flower show in keukenhof. I heard there is another location where we can enjoy flower show for free, anyone know about this?

PalenQ

- South Spain 7 days with local train for day trips then take train to avignon or aix en provence. What train do i need to take from Barcelona to aix en provence?>

Barcelona has direct high-speed trains to Avignon.

the quickest way Bruges to Amsterdam is via Antwerp not Brussels.

Tulips

It's nicer to stay in Brugge; it's a lot more quiet in the evenings there after the tour busses leave. If the weather is nice while you're in Brugge, consider a daytrip to the beach. It's nice for cycling along the coast.
From Lille to Brugge you change in Brussel-Midi.
Look for trains and fares on www.b-europe.com

In the Netherlands you can see fields of flowers for free if you go cycling in that area; it's not like the Keukenhof though.

pariswat

Brugge is a beautiful small medieval museum like city.
Dinant is a cute town on the Meuse river with a beautiful fortress.
In s caricatural way Flanders is about cities and wallonia about landscape.
You need a car to go to dinant.

Good beer everywhere you can even visit breweries like maredsous and Orval both old Trappist
/ monks made made.

spaarne

For Holland the 6 yo will enjoy Madurodam miniature Holland in The Hague and Duinrell water park near Wassenaar. The young one won't be conscious of anything but will be a continuous object of attention by everybody in Holland. I don't know about a "flower show in Amsterdam" but there is a magnificent tulip garden at Keukenhof near Lisse. Weather permitting you can see the blooms in mid April.

PalenQ

Wassenaar water park in April? Ice park maybe.

Tulips

PalenQ; Duinrell is an indoor water park.

PalenQ

Oops - when I camped in Duinrell there long ago it was not - thanks for the correction!

PalenQ

http://www.keukenhof.nl/en/

Yes the Keuknhof Flower show is spectacular like spaarne mentions. From Amsterdam take trains to Leiden for shuttle buses right to this pulchritidinous spectacluer.

Fly3r

Thanks everyone for your suggestion and comments. I will compile them and will definitely run pass all of you again for more inputs.