I love your enthusiasm, I'm dying to go to Turkey!!!

I love that you went alone and had a great time.

Please, tell me more!

kja

It's a pleasure to contribute some travel ideas to posters like yourself who truly appreciate the efforts of fellow Fodorites. Keep on truckin'...

Note: Syd is playing in Frederick, Cafe Nola, on June 30th...end of his summer touring. Drop in and say hello.

stu

thanks much for this report. sounds fantastic and nice to hear that you were so comfortable though you were going it alone!

I am flabbergasted that you could actually fit in so much. Heartfelt congratulations. i wish, I had known and maybe we could have tried to meet such an intrepid traveler in Iznik or Istanbul.

It is seldom that I meet travelers who can stick to tight itineraries like you. Your willingness to share is also very laudable, and I hope other potential travelers make good use of your experience.

here are some practical questions, to start with :

- what make car did you rent? from whom?
were you pleased with it in terms of comfort, economy, power?
how much did you pay for how long?

- was there any lodging you would warn against or specifically recommend at any of the places you stayed?

- Any menu items you specifically recommend or warn against?

- Who is Syd? and why is Stu giving you this information?

OC....after they took your laptop away at "The Istanbul Home for the Terminally Bewildered and Confused", how can you still be posting?

No matter, it's always pleasureable to have your astute comments especially to an exemplary poster like Kja. Relieved if you've been paroled from the "home"...will look good on your "risk" resume'.

If you're still coming to NYC, I'll be there July 12-14, so maybe we can all meet with Adu and Andrea. He's buying.

Sorry kja..awaiting your further comments. (Feel free to tell OC just who Syd is. I'm not sure I've ever told him).

stu

kja, I totally share your enthusiasm. I also had a fantastic time in Turkey.
Can you tell me more about hiking in Ihara Valley? We went there on a very wet day and we were mostly inside the car, from the little I saw the valley is beautiful and we are thinking of going back. How difficult and how long is the hike? I read the deeper into the valley, the more beautiful the scenery gets, is that the case? I am afraid to say I am not a hiker but that looks like something I can get into.

mohan..particularly the walk along the river is pleasant and quite comfortable. Sorry the weather prevented you from experiencing it.

Adu's buying. Stu, can Anne and I come? Sorry 'kja'.

susanna - Thank you for your kind words! Turkey is definitely a worthy destination.


Stu – I do, indeed, appreciate your efforts – you and other Fodorites provide a wealth of information so generously! While at the Pierre Loti café, I enjoyed raising my glass of chai to you as the muezzins began their calls. And was that you who suggested the swordfish kebabs at Mercan in Kas? Delicious!

I'm not sure I'll be able to make it to Frederick - I don't have a car, and it's a little difficult to get there without one. But I haven't given up and I do have it on my calendar!


kawh – I am a committed solo traveler: It gives me the freedom do whatever I want, whenever I want – it is really quite an indulgence!


otherchelebi – I did fit a lot in, didn’t I? It wasn’t so much that I stuck to a tight itinerary, as that I had enough good information in advance from you and others to come up with a reasonable plan. As usual, once my journey began, I used my plan as a guideline, not a “schedule” and once I decided to visit something, I took whatever time I wanted. So I sometimes ended up a bit “behind” or a bit “ahead”, but my time estimates worked out pretty well. I only skipped a few things (e.g., the Duden falls), and I had time to add in a few others (e.g., Patara beach).

It will please me if my experiences prove useful to other travelers - I'd like to pay back a little to the Fodorite community.

My rental car was a Renault Symbol rented through Europcar and arranged by Gemut.com. (I learned about Gemut through Fodor’s forums some years ago, have used them 4 times now, and have always been pleased with their service.) It was a 4-door manual that felt solid, handled well, was comfortable, and had enough power to handle all but the longest and steepest hills with reasonable ease. I paid about $750 US for 16 days, plus $150 US for a one-way drop-off fee – more than I would have preferred, but less than I found when I checked into my options for booking directly rather than through gemut. I had just 2 small problems with it:
- First, the cigarette lighter had been disabled, which meant that the portable GPS system I had brought with me nearly ran out of battery power every day. I ended up turning it if off whenever I could, so (for example) if it told me to keep straight for 20 kilometers, I’d turn it off and then, after 19 kilometers, turn it on again until I heard directions for my next step. That was a bit of an unexpected pain!
- Second, returning the car in Bursa was quite surprisingly difficult. For starters, as you know (and warned me) driving in Bursa is not a fun experience. Even so, my GPS got me to the address with little trouble, but I couldn’t see the office from the street, and ended up in a maze of hilly one-way streets before I could get back to the right area. I parked and walked around. And around. And around. Several very helpful people called Europcar for me, and sent me in various inconsistent directions. It took a very long (and tiring) time to find it. Eventually, a man from a different car rental agency helped me. Turns out that Europcar had recently moved. There was a man – but no sign - at the “old” location; he had to call someone from the “new” location to come and take charge of the car. That didn’t take too long, but it was decidedly inconvenient and confusing! To state the obvious, it would have been much easier if I had been given the correct address.

As a rule, I was pleased with my lodgings, which were by and large what I expected based on what I had read in advance. Nothing fancy, but places that suited my needs. I’ll be entering my comments about lodging on another website and don’t want to enter double reports, so I’ll refrain from commenting on them here.

In general, I ate some very pleasant meals. There was only one dish I wouldn’t try again – some kind of sausage-like thing that was WAY too greasy, but was the only dish available at the by-then only open restaurant I could find near where I was staying in Bursa. (I wanted to have a glass of wine with dinner, but couldn’t find a place to do that, and in the end, was just glad to find a place where I could sit down for something to eat.) Throughout my travels, I had some absolutely luscious fruits and would urge people to try whatever is in season. I'll try to remember to include some restaurant notes later in this report; if I forget, feel free to remind me.

Syd is a very talented musician and Stu is giving me the information because he knows I would like to see Syd and his fellow musicians – Hotels and Highways - again.


Mohan – Turkey really is an amazing country, isn’t it?

I thought the Ihlara Valley very beautiful. How long and/or how difficult the hike is depends, I think, on how many of the churches you visit, because seeing them generally means climbing up and down some fairly steep paths. It also depends on which entrance you take. I believe many people take the stairs that have been nicknamed the Devil’s Staircase (or something like that) by the main entrance – some 360 or so steps cut into the rock. Not for me! I had arranged with my hotel to go with me to Belisirma, where I left my car, and then take me to the Ihlara entrance. So I entered near Ihlara Village, where there is a bit of a steep path down to the river valley, but not too long and not too difficult and made especially interesting by a shepherd and his small flock of sheep (including a few very young lambs) at the entrance. I ended at Belisirma, which is riverside. As I recall, I spent about 4 or 5 hours in the valley, taking my time to explore quite a few of the churches and stopping repeatedly to take pictures. You could spend far less time if you skip or curtail those activities. And there’s another stretch of the valley from Belisirma to Selime (where there is another entrance) that I didn’t explore at all. The scenery did vary from Ihlara to Belisirma – there were stretches where the steep rock walls were very near and some where they were further and some where i couldn't see them at all; places where the narrow river rushed downhill and others where is rushed over barely sloping ground; places that were open and filled with wildflowers and butterflies and places that were rock-strewn and places where trees stretched out over the water. I wouldn’t dare to say which area was more beautiful.

At this point in my life, I’m not much of a hiker, but I’m very glad to have spent time in this valley. Once in the valley itself, most of the path that I walked was fairly flat, but there were some stretches where one needed to climb up and over boulders. If you go, do bring plenty of water. You might find some additional helpful information in these other posts:

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/ihlara-valley-cappadocia-temporarily-out-of-bounds.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/please-help-me-explore-turkey.cfm


Richard - you are always welcome to hijack one of my threads!


Still to come – what I liked least and most, some specific observations…..

Very exciting kja. I would like to hear about your hot air balloon experience in Cappadocia. I am reserved with Royal Balloon at the end of August and can't wait! Which company did you use and did it meet your expectations?

Thanks for posting this, kja.

I spent a month in Turkey nearly 20 years ago and it remains, to this day, my favorite place in the world. I'm in the early stages of planning a return trip and it can't come soon enough.

I loved the art, the architecture, the archaeological ruins, the scenery, the food and most of all the people -- the friendliest, warmest folks I've encountered in my travels.

So glad you got to spend a few weeks there to soak it all up!

MinnBeef: For my balloon ride, I chose a deluxe tour with Kapadokya Balloons and it not met, but exceeded, my expections!

I based my selection on 3 considerations. If what I learned in advance is correct, then:
(1) Kapadokya is the best-established hot air balloon company in the area and the one with the best safety record.
(2) Kapadokya has more take-off/landing sites than any company with the possible exception of its “daughter” company; more take-off and landing sites mean that the company has a better chance of being able to respond to unusual weather, so it is more likely to be able to take off and to take off on time and more likely to be able to stay aloft for a long time.
(3) A hot air balloon ride of any length and with any company was a splurge by my standards, and as a splurge, I decided that I would rather pay the extra for the longer ride in a smaller basket – I didn’t want to land after spending a lot of money, only to wonder whether the extra cost would be worth it.

I was VERY, VERY pleased with my choice. The time seemed to fly by! (No pun intended.) I couldn’t believe that it had been nearly 2 hours when we landed, and it seems I would have missed so much if the ride had been only 1 hour long. I had read one comment that people who take a 2-hour ride end up with sore feet from standing that long, and I had worried a bit about that because my feet no longer endure just any old treatment with grace. But I didn’t notice any discomfort and didn’t hear anyone else complain. Too, I managed a 6-hour hike later that day, and although my feet hurt a lot at the end of my hike, I don’t think it had anything to do with the balloon ride!

Being in a small basket definitely contributed to my enjoyment: There were 12 of us in 2 rows; each of us had an unobstructed position at the outside of the basket and we could all easily see in other directions (which wasn’t really necessary because the balloon turned frequently). There was noise on occasion as our pilot heated air to adjust our altitude, but when he wasn’t doing that, we could easily hear him when he spoke about what we were seeing or when one of us asked him a question. And we had plenty of time sailing silently over some of the most amazing landscapes imaginable. And as an example of our pilot’s skill, he landed the basket squarely on the flatbed truck that the company sent.

Bottom line: My hot air balloon ride was amagnificent experience and it was, IMHO, worth every penny.


NanBug: I know what you mean: there is SO much to appreciate about Turkey! It would be incredible if only because of the art, architecture, archeological ruins, scenery, and food; the people – their sincere friendliness and warmth – make it so much more special and memorable!

I feel incredibly fortunate to have had my time there and I’m sure you will find much to treasure in your return visit. Will you be visiting the same places you visited before, or new places, or a mix?


As promised/warned, here are some comments on what I liked least and most, in no particular order other than to starrt with what I like least:

WHAT I LIKED LEAST …
- Turkish drivers – they are even worse than I had heard! As a pedestrian, the only strategy I found for crossing a road – even in a marked pedestrian crossing area – that didn’t seem completely suicidal was to walk next to the oldest person I could find who looked like they knew where they were going, not because I thought anyone would be respectful of the person’s age, but because there was a chance, however slim, that someone who had lived that long might have learned a way to cross a road without injury. As a driver – defense, defense, defense! I found the major east-west road from about Manavgat through and beyond Antalya particularly hateful, with numerous drivers ignoring lane markings and weaving in and out and cutting people of and ignoring warning lights and even driving straight through red lights without the slightest reduction in speed.
- Audio guides that began each segment with the same few bars of music.
- My failure to find a restaurant where I could have wine with dinner near the market in Bursa, and elsewhere, waiters who didn’t bring my wine until after my entrée was served.
- The absence of plugs for the drains in hotel sinks.
- The overly aggressive sales people I encountered. Thankfully, they were VERY few. The vast majority of merchants I encountered were courteous and kind.

WHAT I LIKED BEST …
- The gracious, generous, and dignified hospitality of so many people, including people who had nothing to do with the tourist industry.
- The children who smiled at me from a distance or came close and/or tried to speak to me, and the older women who tried to tell me about their children and grandchildren who now live in the U.S. or otherwise welcome me to their country.
- Astonishingly diverse and stunningly gorgeous scenery throughout the areas I visited – definitely not only in the places I expected it -- with dramatic, and dramatically changing, skies, and rainbows, so many rainbows! -- brilliant or dim or single or double or full or partial and invariably lovely.
- The wildflowers everywhere, in every color and every size from tiny Alpine-like blooms to 7-foot-tall hollyhocks, and the birds -- magpies and storks with their nestlings and ducks leading their ducklings and magnificent birds of prey and so many others.
- Glimpses into traditional lives as I passed through villages or waited for herders to accompany their goats or sheep or cows across the road or noted the comraderie of men who had gathered for their daily coffee or tea and gossip or watched women chatting to each other and minding their children as they picked herbs….
- The sounds of the muezzins, even when they awakened me.
- Deliciously fresh juices and the guard at a museum in Ankara who saw me watching people pick fruit from a tree and then came to offer me a handful of eriks (which I believe are a type of plum) and savoring them and other fresh fruits and vegetables that I hadn’t previously encountered and walking through colorful markets of fruits and vegetables and teas and spices….
- Seeing groups of young women garbed in black with their incredibly expressive eyes and their stunningly brilliant, jewel-colored, silk scarves.
- The incredibly turquoise seas off the Turquoise Coast, seas that turned to teal or emerald or ultramarine as the lights shifted, and the vibrant colors of the Bosphorus, and the clarity of the waters of both, clear enough for me to see through the water.
- The friendliness of the many cats and what that signifies about the kindness of the treatment they receive from people they encounter and the sight of a cat sleeping cozily only feet from one of the blazing vents of the Chimaera and glimpses of kittens who were discovering how to catch insects….
- The magnificent vistas from ancient theaters and the mind-boggling distance of Ephesus from the current seashore and the evidence of the human and technological feats that would have been required to create the acropolis of Pergamum and the paintings of dancing figures from catalhoyuk and the lovely terrace and odeon of Arykanda and the nymphaem of Perge and library and terraced houses of Ephesus and, well this is a list that could go on and on and on….
- Gliding above the unique and awesome terraine of Cappadocia in a hot air balloon.
- Experiencing a Turkish bath in a 600-year-old hamam and soaking my feet after long hikes that were worth every step and soaking in the pleasant warmth of the thermal bath at Hierapolis.
- and SO much more.

If it isn’t already clear, let me state, for the record, that the things I liked least were a few minor irritants (or, in the case of dealing with drivers, at least non-fatal incidents); the things I like best were for more numerous and infinitely more memorable. It was, indeed, a fantastic journey!

Coming soon: some observations about very specific things and/or places.

great report. Will we be be able to see the hotel recs.. where if not here?

Hi kja. Glad to hear you loved the balloon trip. As I recall, several of us had to "talk you into it" as you were planning your trip. <G> Glad it exceeded your expectations.

I booked with Royal because I am doing a two-day tour of Cappadocia from Istanbul, through Euphrates tours. Both Euphrates and Royal Balloon are 5-star rated on Trip Advisor, so that is very encouraging. I did book the 1 1/2 hour tour as I figured I'll probably never do this again in my life, so take advantage of it when I can. The balloon ride is one of the top 3 or things I am most looking forward to, along with Sumela Monastery, taking a ferry cruise along the Golden Horn, and finding a cool leather jacket and/or carpet in Istanbul. Oh, and also the paragliding at Oludeniz if I have a drink or two first!

By the way, where did you do your hamam? I've read that the most beautiful ones in Istanbul are actually rather poor on service and many people leave dissapointed.

Thanks, lincasanova! Once I have time to compose them, I will post my hotel reviews on TripAdvisor.


MinnBeef – Yes, the balloon ride was definitely a winner! I’m sure you will enjoy your ride.

I envy your visit to the Sumela Monastery – it was very difficult for me to cross that off my itinerary, and hope to see it on a future trip. Do report on it once you return!

I loved my ferry ride along the Golden Horn. After walking from the Pierre Loti Café down through the cemetery to the waters’ edge, I came to the ferry dock and had about ½ hour before the next ferry. There was a seller of tea and pretzel-like things there who was particularly engaging, coming by several times to give me more tea. And then the ferry came. It isn’t a long ride – a bit more than ½ hour as I recall; very pleasant and some lovely views.

I hope you find whatever it takes for you to paraglide if that is, in fact, something you want to do. I must admit that I love, but have rarely engaged in, air sports. (Translation: There was no way that I could afford these activities for most of my life.) I’ve taken one sky dive; it was solo and so awesome that I still don’t have words for it even decades later. It remains one of my most vivid memories. I didn’t realize that there were paragliding operations in Antalya until it was too late for me to take advantage of them – darn! I defintely hope to paraglide some time! But that’s me. You are obviously someone who “does his homework,” so I’m sure you will check out the companies that offer paragliding and then decide. Its YOUR vacation, MinnBeef, and you have the wonderful freedom to do whatever you want, whenever you want!

My only experience with a hamam was in Antalya. I had a wonderful experience there in a female-only facility, so I can’t help you with hamams in Istanbul.



SOME ADDITIONAL OBSERVATIONS:

• Turkish has 2 different characters for what in English is the single letter I, and the one with a dot is not the one where an English qwerty keyboard has an i. Unfortunately, I hadn’t realized that fact until after I inadvertently convinced my e-mail provider that I was not me, and I ended up being locked out of my e-mail for several frustrating days – including the days when I was trying to let my family and friends know that I had arrived safely. (I don’t travel with a phone.) Be forewarned! I you have an “I” in either your user ID or your password, make sure you know which key to press!

• I generally did not work with guides (other than audio guides), but I was very glad to work with a guide at the Hittite ruins in Bogazkale and the underground city of Kaymakli – I don’t think I would have understood what I was seeing at either place without a guide, and I definitely would have missed some of the fascinating things that can be seen and appreciated at these places. BTW, there were a few passageways in Kaymakli where one has to stoop substantially to get through, but they were SHORT passageways.

• FYI: Sarica Kilises monastery was closed when I was in the area.

• OMG, how could I have forgotten, when composing my list of things I liked best, all my olfactory experiences? The incredible scent of lilac at the Keşlik Monastery and pines at Phaselis and Iznik and honeysuckle in Selcuk and roses in ... was that Bursa? … and the aromas of teas and spices in markets in Antalya and Istanbul and – even though I didn’t eat any street food or any doner kebab – the mouth-watering aromas of various doner kebab stands.

• Despite my efforts, I could NOT find prehistoric Aşıklı Höyük. I hadn’t programmed my GPS with its latitude and longitude; instead, I had noted that it was near Dogantarla. I found Dogantarla easily, but didn’t see any signs for Aşıklı Höyük. No problem: there was an interesting local market there and I was able to get directions from a police officer. I followed those directions without finding Aşıklı Höyük, and eventually stopped to get directions at a gas station. And then I followed those directions unsuccessfully for a while. Eventually, I gave up. Instead I visited Çatalhöyük, which I found fascinating. And ultimately, I was glad I saw Çatalhöyük because the artifacts I saw at several museums that were from it – I got a better perspective on both the site and the artifacts for having seen both.

• I had planned to try to visit the Chimaera (Yanartaş) after sunset, as several of my guidebooks recommended, but instead accepted the advice of the owner of my B&B to go a little before then – and I am glad that I did! For one thing, it was much easier to get there while I still had natural light. (I had a good headlamp with me, but still….) For another thing, I was able to see a bit of the view from the hillside where the flames emerge before the light completely faded – was that actually a bit of the sea I saw below the indiscernible horizon line? And watching the flames as darkness set in was VERY cool. The “red light” setting of my headlamp was more than enough to get me down the hill when I was ready to leave, and I was glad to avoid disrupting my mood (and interfering with others’ night vision) by using the red light setting.

• I had read that walking the travertines at Pamukkale would be easy on one’s feet. Well, some parts were smooth and even soothing to the foot; other parts HURT, so be prepared! I also hadn’t realized how few places there are for people to enter the travertines, and would recommend that those interested in walking them find out which parts are open and where the access points are before exploring marvelous Hierapolis.

• The audio guide at Ephesus is a touch-screen device that I could not, for the life of me, see in the sunlight, and I couldn’t even manage to see it well enough in shade to use it effectively. I returned it, and am pleased to report that I was immediately given a full refund, without even asking for one. I must admit that I eavesdropped on several English-speaking guides as I made my way through this amazing place. And I was fortuntate to enter the terrace houses – an absolute MUST-see area -- just after a family of four with their English-speaking guide. I did my best not to interfere with their visit, and they were kind enough to tolerate me as I hovered nearby. I think a guide for Ephesus, and the terrace houses in particular, would be a very good use of one’s resources.

• If you have any interest in shadow puppets, do stop at the covered market in Bursa and find the Karagoz Antique Shop – someone should be able to help you find it. There, if you ask, you might be treated, as I was, to a brief Karagoz puppet show and maybe even a glass of tea. As I understand it, shadow puppetry is a dying art at both ends of the Silk Road. Having seen it in Xi’an, I was glad to see the variant practiced in Bursa – great fun! And I found it fascinating to see the differences between them. (My purchase of a copy of the Chelebi character seemed a fitting memento of this trip.)

• In Istanbul, I stayed in Sultanhamet rather than the area in/around Taksim Square and I cannot understate how VERY, VERY glad I am that I made that choice! I admit that Sultanhamet was filled with tourists, but I liked being within easy walking distance of many sights and near the tram for places that were a bit further afield. On my Friday evening in Istanbul, I walked from the Galata Tower through Istiklal Caddesi to Taksim Square. I thoroughly enjoyed seeing several street performers and I appreciated the energy of the area, but it was decidely MUCH too crowded and MUCH too loud for me. Vive la différence!

• For me, the museum pass in Istanbul was well worth it for the time I saved by being able to skip lines. It doesn’t cover the Dolmabahce Palace, but it does cover quite a few major sites.

• At the far end of the Bosphorus, I stopped at Anadolu and climbed to the castle, where I found all the gates closed. There was a place where a fence had been separated by human intervention from the wall, and people were squeezing their way through and finding their way into the castle. I was tempted – sorely temped! – but I do try to respect the limits that are set on tourists. And really, I couldn’t complain because the views from the area in front of the closed castle gates were fabulous. Finally tearing myself away, I started back downhill and found that an entrance to the castle ruins that had been padlocked when I first passed (I know because I took a brief respite in that very gate) was now open! I’m so glad, because there were some very special (if not necessarily “better”) views from within the ruins. For example, it was interesting to see the arched stonework of the old castle walls and the fields of wildflowers that they enclosed and, perhaps best of all, to find a place from which one could look down at the water’s edge and realize that I was seeing through the waters of the Bosphorus to the rounded rocks beneath the surface. How is it possible that this ship-filled stretch of water retains that degree of clarity? Stunning! And then, as I left by the once locked gate, I saw a man who held the key to the gate. I had been on the 1st ferry of the day, and I hadn’t stopped for food, so even though I made my way up the hill rather slowly and others had arrived before me, I was probably a rather “early” arriver. My guess is that the gatekeeper probably timed his appearances at the gate to the ferries and was just a tad late on that particular day. So, if you climb up to the castle at Anadolu, don’t “sneak in” if you can help it – wait for at least a little while to see if the site is opened to you.


I hope these comments help!

I'm sorry you missed Aşıklı Höyük, you got the wrong village, it should be Kızılkaya, about 2km south of Doğantarla, here - http://wikimapia.org/#lat=38.3490273&lon=34.2304802&z=14&l=0&m=b

I think the guy at the petrol station should have known better (if it's the same station I'm thinking of).

I also missed it but eventually found it, there was a market by the river at the entrance to Kızılkaya village and the stalls had obscured the brown sign.

Thanks for clarifying, Croesus - let's hope that future travelers see this post and figure out how to get there! I have no reason to doubt that the policeman and the man at the gas station gave me accurate directions. Unfortunately, my Turkish is so very limited that I probably misheard and/or misunderstood - or maybe I simply gave up when I was really, really close.

At least you managed to see Çatalhöyük, which is probably the better site.
Did you stay at the Ali Bilir Hotel in Beyşehir?

I did stay at the Ali Bilir Otel, Croesus - a room with a small balcony and view of the lake. And I enjoyed my visit to the lovely Esrefoglu Camii very much. Maybe you can answer a question I had: As I drove out of town, I saw a long stretch of trees along the lakeshore that had been partially flooded, with water covering at least a foot or more of their bases. I wondered whether it was a temporary or seasonal thing or something more permanent. Any idea?

Minnbeef,

I don't know if you have left yet or if you will see this but - good call on the longer balloon ride! We took the "Beyond" ride with Butterfly and it was SO worth the extra money. You wont want to end and if Royal is like Butterfly, you will have less people in your basket with you. My BF, who hates to fly, LOVED the balloon ride.
Also, I loved the hamam way more than I thought I would. I did a locals one recommended by Jennifer (a Canadian) who owns Jennifer's Hamam (a shop worth checking out by the way). It wasn't fancy but it was only 40 Lira and I really liked it!
You will have an AWESOME time in Turkey!

Hi not_enuf_vaca

No, I have not left yet. Two more months--I leave Aug. 24th and I totally CAN'T WAIT!

Glad to hear you loved the longer balloon ride. For me, the decision was an easy one as I figured the balloon was probably something I'd never again do in my life, so what's an extra $100 or whatever it was, in exchange for hopefully a life time memory. At this stage, I think the balloon is the single thing I'm most looking forward to on my trip. (And that's saying a lot as I can't wait to get back to Istanbul to see the Chora Church and take a Golden Horn ferry ride, along with visiting Sumela Monastery)

Jennifer's Hamam is on my to do list as I hope to find great Turkish bath towels there. May I ask-where did you do your hamam and did your BF do the hamam also? I have researched the major Istanbul hamamas (Cemberlitas and Cagaloglu)on Trip Advisor. While the reviews are mediocre overall, they seem to be pretty bad on the men's side of these hamams while the ladies seem to enjoy their experience more. How would that compare for the two of you?

MB

> I can't wait to get back to Istanbul to see the Chora Church and take a Golden Horn ferry ride

The Chora Church is wonderful! And before your Golden Horn ferry ride, take the cable car to the Pierre Loti Cafe, preferably at a time that will allow you to will sip your tea as the muezzins's calls fill the air, then walk through the cemetery to the ferry dock. VERY nice!

I went to a locals place that Jennifer from Jennifer's Hamam recommended. It was about 15 minute walk from her store. It isn't fancy like the tourists baths and they spoke no English but I loved it! My lady took good care of me. And it was only 40 Lira!
BF stayed back at the hotel in the AC

The Chora Church is nice - we got there right before it closed so we had it almost to ourselves (I guess it can get pretty crowded). The taxi at rush hour was a little steep - but the bus ride there is long. Also it close an hour earlier than the guide books listed.

Not sure if you are a shopper (as in clothing) - but there a bunch of cute little boutiques up by Galata Tower.

kja,

I totally cannot wait for the Chora Church and for that matter, my whole exploration of the Fenner and related neighborhoods. I did not get to that part of Istanbul at all when I was there last Sept. I want to visit St. Stephen's Bulgarian Orthodox church, the Fethiye Mosque, the Ecumenical Patriarchate, Chora Church, the Eyup Sultan Mosque/Cemetary and yes, Pierre Loti Cafe. Not to mention have lunch at Asitane in the middle of all that. I have that itinerary budgeted for one full day. I think it might be my most exciting day in Istanbul.

not_enuf_vaca,

Thanks for the info. on the hamam. I'm really on the fence about doing one. I might see if my hotel (Witt Istanbul) strongly recommends any particular place. I will also ask Jennifer. I do like shopping although not a cute little boutique kinda guy. <G>. There are 3 things that I would love to buy in Istanbul. I would love to find a nice spring/fall-weight leather jacket. I plan to check out both Prens Leather just outside the Grand Bazaar (fantastic Trip Advisor review) along with Trust Leather in the Arasta Bazaar. Also, if I could find a 6x9 or 8x10 carpet that moved me and was at a price less than what I could buy one here, I'd love one. I have one last space in my loft that could acommodate a rug that size. Finally on the low end, I want to get a couple of Istanbul 2020 Candidate City t-shirts in the hopes that Istanbul wins the race for the 2020 Olympics.

Ah - got you on the boutiques - sorry about that

Walked by Prens - looked very nice. A guy stopped to talk to us but did not pressure us in the slightest. We have too many leather jackets from Argentina and Italy so we passed.

By the way, I recall that early in your trip planning you were considering going to Rhodes. Did you go there? I'm thinking about doing it as a day trip from Fethiye. I'd have about 5 hours of exploring time, which would probably be enough to see the Old Town and perhaps the Acropolis of Rhodes. If you went, how did you like Rhodes?

No - we ended up doing Crete and Santorini.

Minn

we reached Rhodes by ferry from Marmaris. where I had turned in the car. The walled Old Town, the harbor, the statues placed where the Colossus "might" have been, etc. kept us busily striding about 6 hours...took a late evening flight to Santorini. The Acropolis is in Lindos on the southern coast, and time may be too tight to fit in a bus ride.
stu

Thanks Tower. I believe there is also an Acropolis just outside of the Old Town of Rhodes but I think the one at Lindos is the bigger, more touristic one. If you hadn't needed to get to Rhodes to fly to Santorini, would you have considered the Old Town "worth it" for one of your Turkish Riviera days?

yes, there is an Acropolis just outside of the old town except there is not too much to see at that one. We were disappointed. Outside of that acropolis you can hop on the double- decker tourist bus that goes in circular motion, that bus passes a nice long beach in the new town which might come in handy if you fancy a dip.
We were there in mid May, the weather while pleasant was really warm, both days I ended the walk early to go back the hotel for a swim in the swimming pool.
Is Rhodes worth it? Yes indeed, the old town was very interesting and well-preserved. We had 2.5 day in Rhodes and I had originally planned on going to Lindo, we ended up just spending most the time in old town and we also had 2 long dinners in a restaurant in new town near our hotel.
From Rhodes we took the speed boat to Marmaris, then went north to Pamukkale and Izmir and so forth. I really regret not able to see Datca Peninsula which was in the plan and doing the costal drive to Kas. I am kind of flirting with the idea of going back in the winter.
yes, 5 hours can get you a good feel of the old town, make sure you have a good map, it's pretty big and spread out there. Study the map before you go so you don't backtrack. Also don't let the salesmen distract you.
I personnally would not plan so tight and only allow 5 hours for a place like Rhodes, that's just me.
Sorry kja for hijacking your post,
Sorry Turkish forum for talking about Greece.

Wow kja, you sure had and exciting trip! And thanks a ton for taking the time to write this detailed TR, am bookmarking it for future reference, we're looking at a trip next May, unfortunately can't do more than 15 days in Turkey though

not_enuf-vaca, did you go to Santorini from Fethiye, if so how?

Geetika,

We actually flew from Santorini to Athens (check-in at the Santorini airport was interesting ) and spent 2 days in Athens and then flew to Izmir direct.

I did have a wonderful time, geetika, and I'm sure you will, too. In a country like Turkey, I can't imagine that you won't!

If you hadn't needed to get to Rhodes to fly to Santorini, would you have considered the Old Town "worth it" for one of your Turkish Riviera days?
Minn:
It was my second trip to Turkey and I didn't feel we gave up anything by going to Rhodes. I got all I planned to out of this visit to Turkey...besides I had an ulterior motive for going to Rhodes. There is a still-active little synagogue in Old Town, and a friend of our's family was deported by the occupying Nazi's during the war. I wanted to visit the building and take a picture of the stone plaque naming each of the deported families, most never to be heard from again. The kind woman custodian in her 80's who hosted us indeed remembered the family. There is a small monument in the square commemorating the 2,000 deported. There is a small Rhodosian Sephardic community in L.A.

Tower

I hadn't realized what a rich history the Jews had in Istanbul and was sad I hadn't arranged ahead of time (it takes four days for approval) to do a walking tour of the Synagogues and Jewish quarter there I guess maybe for my next trip. Are you an Angeleno?

kja...don't know if i've alerted you..Syd will not be playing in Fredrick...gig was cancelled for some reason. Next year he'll be back.
stu

Thanks for letting me know, stu. I hadn't given up on finding a way to get there; I know I would enjoy seeing him/them again. I hope they are all well and that the reason for the cancellation is nothing more than a very temporary inconvenience.

And thanks for sharing your moving memories of the synagogue in Rhodes.

kja: strictly a business decision between Cafe Nola and Syd's band. As for the Rhodes synagogue, I have a list of over 100 synagogues I've visited worldwide. If you'd like to see it, please write. sgtbranko@aol.com

not-enuf-vaca: yes, I am a proud Angelino since 1957. Off Beverly Glen and Mulholland 90077..and you?
stu

STu, do you mean that you look like a prune (or plum?) when you say you are an AngelIno? (previously a "california rose")

Tower,

Yes I am - or was. I was a west-sider and went to Venice High!Now up in the soggy, not sunny, NW.

So we're back to eriks (plums)....

Are fresh eriks a favorite food of goats? On the way to Xanthos, I saw a herd of goats charging across a road and the larger (and I assume older) ones leapt to trees that looked like they held ripe eriks (but I couldn't really tell, particularly because the goats ate all the fruit so quickly). The larger/taller goats completed ignored their herder as they competed for the fruit. The younger/smaller goats sought pieces of the fruit on the ground before obeying their goatherd's call. Were those erik? it was quite a sight!

kja, you're so right. Old goats (!) know the best eriks. They can even disguise as one to attract those of the opposite gender.

It is still erik season here, so it is hard to put this important subject aside.

I didn't see any of those disguises - or perhaps I should say that I was not aware of seeing any such disguises! But whatever these trees offered, the goats wanted it!

It was really quite a spectacle: I was fortunate enough to take note when the older goats in an otherwise slow-moveing and very large herd first smelled (or saw or otherwise sensed) something - they charged ahead and leapt into the trees. And since only the stronger, taller, faster goats got to nibble these precious delights, it was a clear demonstration of the privileges of mature strength.

And if they were eriks, I can't blame them - delicious little things!

kja,
you have heartwarming observations about Turkey.
Ohh, do I wish to spend 25 days in Turkey!!! (once more).

Sorry kja, I thought we were discussing Tower and Adu.

Thanks, baldrick! I feel incredibly lucky to be able to travel and to take long trips. Turkey was a great destination - it offered so many heartwarming experiences. May all your travel dreams come true!

OC..having bkfst w/ Adu and Andrea in NYC mid July. We will be thinking of you....for maybe two seconds.

It will be too hot to eat anything in NYC mid July, unless you go to visit them for a 5AM breakfast.

i have already started thinking philosophically for the coming conference. words like pyrrhonism and pataphysics are vying for major positions in the frontal lobes.

Turkey is also famous for its former philosophers with a few who have survived to this date. There was haj haroun in Jerusalem (Sinai Tapestry, Edward Whittemore) who was 3000 years old and there is otherchelebi who may be close to the age of Mel Brooks when he had those shows with Karl Reiner.

Both Carl and Mel are in their mid 80's and are sharp as ever. Saw them interviewed last month and they did parts of the 2000 year old man and the 2013 year old man...rioutously funny still.

kja,
Great report, observations and memories that I am taking notes of in preparation for an Oct trip next year. Unfortunately not as long as yours, but I am getting very excited about it.
Thanks for taking the time to share everything with us.

Thanks, xyz - I'm glad you found my observations helpful! I know that you are struggling with the difficult choices for travel that Turkey provides: So much to see, so little time!

Even with the luxury of 3.5 weeks, I visited only a few of the places that were on my original wish-list. (I certainly hope to include at least some of those locations on a future 2nd trip to this amazing country). The good news is that you should be able to see and experience some wonderful things, even if you need to be more selective than you had initially expected.

kja, that’s exactly what I’m going through

I’ve been reading so much about Turkey lately, and revising the list of what to see and what to skip so many times… I am sure I will do that a few more times before all is set in stone…and maybe even after that.
I love this forum and the people here who make planning so easy and so much fun. Thank you.

My husband and I are looking at flying from Istanbul to Kayeseri, Cappadocia and renting a car. Similar to you I would like rent a car then after 3 days/4 nights in Cappadocia make our way to Anatalya eventually to Selcuk and fly back from Izmir (after dropping car) to Istanbul. I hope to rent a deisel car. I will have 15 days, 17 days including 2 flying days. I will have 5 whole days separately in Istanbul. How expensive would you estimate the fuel costs to be. It has been suggested that instead, we should fly to Kayeseri rent a car return it. Fly to Anatalya rent a car return it there and fly to Izmir rent a car return it and fly back to Istanbul. They suggest this format would be cheaper. Surely the convenience of a car outweighs all that flying.

Hi, WhistlerNorth -

> How expensive would you estimate the fuel costs to be.

I'm afraid I can't answer your question as I didn't keep notes about the price of fuel. I remember reading before I went that fuel in Turkey is among the most expensive in the world. I have absolutely no idea whether that's true or not. Otherchelebi or Croesus or others may be able to provide better info about the costs.

> Surely the convenience of a car outweighs all that flying.

Obviously, I did think the convenience of having a car was worth it, but that reflected my selection of places to visit. I wanted to see a number of places that would have been somewhat difficult to reach in a timely way by public transportation. Too, I really enjoy long-distance driving. But there are downsides, too, including the costs, the moments when you find that your maps aren't accurate or that routes have changed due to road construction, making sure that your accommodations make parking available...

Keep in mind that the trip from Cappadocia to Antalya is too long to make in day, so you'd need the better of 2 days for that leg. And I believe the most direct route from Antalya to Selcuk would take pretty much a full day.

Good luck with your planning!

I should add that I saw some stunningly, breathtakingly, awesomely beautiful scenery while driving that I wouldn't have seen had I flown from place to place. And I was fascinated to see herds of cattle or goats moving across roadways, even if it meant that I couldn't move an inch for a 1/2 hour or more.

But there were also frustrating times on highways near cities with chaotic and stressful traffic patterns; and a few long stretches that weren't all that interesting (at least to me); and various areas undergoing road work where the road remained open to traffic, but had basically been stripped to an unpaved rutted surface that one could cross at only a snail's pace, etc.

Whistler,

Why don't you plot your trip using Google Maps, figure out the total kilometers you expect to drive, then divide by the average kilometers per gallon that a diesel car would get?

I do this often for trips, it can give you a rough idea of the costs.

I am just going to go for renting a car as I don't really want to fly all those times. Think convenience of car outweighs the difference.

kja,
I loved reading your wonderfully descriptive and evocative report. I'm just starting to plan our trip at the end of May....and was debating about where to stay in Istanbul since many comments say that Sultanhamet is too obnoxious right now with people hassling you to buy....but if you stay away from this area, the traffic makes getting to see the historic sights too difficult. So, you've convinced me to stay in this central area so that we can walk to all the major sites. Thank you.

Thanks for the compliments, barefootbeach!

I trust you've read the many arguments in favor of staying elsewhere (e.g., near Taksim Square). Sultanahmet worked very well for my interests, but obviously doesn't suit everyone. I hope it meets your needs. Istanbul is very special - enjoy!

Just wondering kja, your rental car was a Renault Symbol, was it gas or diesel. Would the trunk had been big enough for larger suitcase, small suitcase and daypacks. Finding car rental very expensive, much more than you paid.

WhistlerNorth - I honestly don't remember whether the car was gas or diesel. I think it was gas, but would not swear to it. And since I was traveling along, I really don't know how much the trunk would have held. Good luck!

I have settled on starting with
4 nights in Istanbul
then flying to Kayseri staying in Goreme 4 nights, Sun express flight to Izmir to pick up rental car.
2 nights Selcuk
1 night Pamukkale.
then we have 9 nights before flying from Antalya to Istanbul where we will have 3 more nights. I was just wondering of your stops at Cirali, Kas ,Ucagiz and others in between Antalya and Pamukkale, where did you wish you could have spent more time. I'm torn between some time at Dalyan,Kaya Koyu, Fethiye or any suggestions of a base to combine some of these. How was your accomdation at Ucagiz and Antalya? How did you find having a car and going into Antalya and was Antalya worth spending 2 nights or too much of a big city. This trip is starting mid April into first 10 days of May. Appreciate your insight.

Hi, WhistlerNorth -

➢ I was just wondering of your stops at Cirali, Kas ,Ucagiz and others in between Antalya and Pamukkale, where did you wish you could have spent more time.

No where! I was very pleased with the amount of time I spent in each of these locations. I’m sure that others might want more or less time in any one of these places, but the time I spent in each matched my interests.

Let me put this in perspective: I love planning my trips. As a solo traveler, that means that I plan a trip for my very specific interests, with attention to my own pace and my own needs and my own contraints. To plan my time in Turkey, I worked with 6 different guidebooks, trip reports posted on Fodor’s going back at least 3 years from when I first began planning, various other sources (on the web or in print or from friends and colleagues), and, ultimately, the welcome feedback I got for my specific plans on Fodor’s forum.

I am not a travel agent or travel expert – I’m just a person who enjoys traveling. And just as I benefited from Fodorites who went to Turkey before I did, I think I owe it to future travelers to share my insights. But that’s all they are – MY insights. Others could easily disagree! So while I greatly appreciate the confidence you are placing in me, I urge you to step back a bit – I am not an expert! I encourage you to post your questions separately, and while taking all posters comments into consideration, watch in particular for comments from those who truly are experts on Turkey, such as otherchelebi and Croesus

➢ I'm torn between some time at Dalyan,Kaya Koyu, Fethiye or any suggestions of a base to combine some of these.

I didn’t visit any of these places.

➢ How was your accomdation at Ucagiz and Antalya?

You can find my reviews on TripAdvisor.

➢ How did you find having a car and going into Antalya

As noted above, I found driving in and around Antalya extremely stressful – among the worst of my driving experiences in Turkey! But perhaps that was because it was around rush hour or because my GPS wasn’t working properly. I wouldn’t avoid Antalya just because driving into it was difficult! After all, I did manage it and thought Antalya worth it.

➢ and was Antalya worth spending 2 nights or too much of a big city.

I thoroughly enjoyed Antalya. Depending on your interests, it could easily merit 2 nights, whether that means (a minimum of ) 1 or 2 or 3 days!

Beyond that, I’m not sure how to respond to your question. I didn’t think Antalya a “big” city – at least not in comparison to, say, Istanbul. It is big enough to have a good archeology museum, some reasonably good restaurants, an old town worth roaming, etc. The historical core is walkable, and so didn’t feel “big” at all.

I wish I could be of more help, WhistlerNorth. I'm sure your trip will be wonderful! I'm glad you're leaving a good chunk of time for Istanbul - it is a fascinating place!

I looked at your reviews on Trip advisor and Ucagiz did not receive a review---I know it is very small village. You also appeared to stay in 2 different places in Antalya over 2 nights,why? Thanks you have been very helpful

The place I stayed in Antalya was the Candles House. The place I stayed in Ocagiz was the Likya Cennet Pansiyon, which TripAdvisor listed incorrectly (despite my note to them) as being in Antalya.

> from a post by WhistlerNorth on 2/13/12:
kja, did you find one night in Cirali and Ucagiz enough or given a chance would you have spent 2 in one of them. We are spending 3 nights at a guesthouse in Islamlar which is overlooking Kalkan. This place is run by a friend of a friend of ours. If we were not staying here Kas looks like a good place. He suggested one night at Kale at a pansyion and one night at Cirali or Andrasan after leaving his home. I know you moved alot but did one appeal more than another. We finish with 2 nights in Antalya before flying back to Istanbul. Still deciding between Faralya and Kaya Koyu for 2 nights at other end. We have a car. ... Hi again, WhistlerNorth


Hi, WhistlerNorth --
All I can do is tell you about my experience.

Cirali
I spent one night in Cirali, arriving late in the afternoon and leaving just after breakfast the next day. My B&B suited my goal, which was to visit the Chimaera (Yanartas). Please note that visiting the Chimaera was the ONLY thing I did from Cirali. The B*B at which I stayed was among those that were closest to the Chimaera, which also means furthest from the village – as in several kilometers away from the village. The ONLY time I spent in the village was driving through it when I arrived and when I left. It seemed to have a very relaxed aura – almost a 60’s hippy vibe, but I really can’t say since I didn’t get out of my car while in town. My B&B had a limited (and tasty enough, if very basic) dinner menu, but you’d have to go back in to town if you wanted an actual restaurant. The coast itself was far enough from the road that I couldn’t see or hear it. As I recall – and I very easily could be wrong - the owners of my B&B said it was about a 10-minute walk to the shore (it might have been closer, or further – but not so close that parents needed to be overly concerned about young children). As I recall, driving from the main coastal road into the town of Cirali took maybe 10 or 15 minutes, with lots of switchbacks and narrow roads. I was glad I had good lighting going in and out. I thought Cirali a good base for the Chimeara. I think it could be a decent base for the area for families with small children. It could be a reasonable base for people who really want to spend their time on Turkey’s Turquoise Coast just relaxing. As someone who wanted to maximize her time in this fascinating part of the country, I was glad to spend just 1 night there.

Ucagiz
I spent one night in Ucagiz, arriving late in the afternoon and leaving mid-day the next day, just after a boat ride through the local waters that included the sunken city. I got to my B&B in time to freshen up, walk around a bit before sunset, and have dinner. The next day, I got up in time to have breakfast, take my boat ride (a bit over an hour, with no stops), return to port, and check out. The town has a pretty little marina, a few flower-bedecked shops, a public square where children play…. My impression, which could be WAY off the mark, is that Ucagiz still has a few unsullied corners (but note: it has few corners, sullied or not!), and that for the most part, tourism hasn’t yet destroyed this quiet little fishing village. But I also had the impression that a few local entrepreneurs are trying to capture a share of the tourist industry. I don’t know if they can do it, or if they can do it without destroying what might draw us there. I can say that one merchant in town was among the most offensively aggressive that I encountered in my 3 weeks in Turkey. My goal was to be there so that I could take one of the boats without having to backtrack; staying there met that need and let me see a quiet fishing village that hasn’t yet been fully converted to tourism.

Kas
Although I only spent one night in Kas, I enjoyed it and thought it might be a good base for those who want a decent “base” option. It has some interesting things to see, a lively public square or two, some good restaraunts, easy access to the coastal road…. I was glad for my time in Kas!

Adrasan
There’s a pleasant beach at Adrasan. As I recall, reaching Adrasan takes quite a long “detour” from the main coastal road – maybe 20 minutes or more each way, and along roads that are narrow and with a few hairpin turns. Friends had said it was among the most undisturbed beaches along Turkey’s southern coast. I had no intention of trying to swim, but there were chaize longes there for those who wanted to do so, and it did look like a pleasant place to do so. I saw no one else on 5 or 10 mintues after reaching it.

I thoroughly enjoyed my time in Antalya, and trust that you will, too!

I didn’t stop in the other places you mention.

Hope this helps!

Thanks,kja,great information

Hi Kja..schedule for Syd in your area:

May 4: Club Iota in Arlington,Va.
May 5: Mansion on "O", DC

There may be another Virginia date. Go to their Web pages.

stu

Outstanding, Stu! I've marked my calendar and am looking forward to it. Thanks for letting me know! (The dates must have been decided recently - I'm sure I checked their website recently!)

sounds like a fun trip!

It most certainly was fun, krgystn! I think Turkey is a country in which it is easy to have a really enjoyable traveling experience.

Wonderful report. Thanks for taking the time. How do I find your hotel reviews on TA?

Thanks, yestravel! You can search TA for KJA3.

So much good information! My husband and I are planning to take the ferry from Bursa to Istanbul this June. Could you elaborate a bit more on your experience? Specifically, was the ferry terminal easy to find? How far in advance did you purchase your ticket? And was the journey fairly scenic? Thanks for your help!

Hi, KRyzebol -

I'm glad you found my report helpful!

To go from Bursa to the ferry dock, I chose to hire a driver who was recommended by someone at my hotel. I think it would have been reasonably easy to go by public transportation, but it would have taken longer, and my time in Bursa felt all-too-limited! Too, although I was traveling with a fairly small suitcase, I wasn't sure how easy it would be to take it onto the bus.

As I recall, I agreed to pay the driver something on the order of 50 TL. The ride was reasonably interesting, the driver was very good, and his car was quite comfortable. He saw me to the ticket office and made sure I got the ticket I needed. I won't be at all surprised if an expert on Turkish travel tells me that I overpaid for this service, as I have no idea what the going rate was. It seemed worth the price to me.

I did not purchase a ticket for the ferry in advance - I bought it once at the terminal. I reached the terminal about 50 minutes before the ferry's departure; many people bought their tickets after I got there. (BTW, there are seats in the terminal and on a pier-side area outside, but there weren't enough seats for everyone, so by 15 or 20 minutes before the departure time, no seats were left. And as I recall, there was a counter from which one could purchase snacks and beverages, but nothing alcoholic.) There were empty seats on my ferry, but I don't know how many or whether that is common.

IMHO, most of the crossing was fairly uninteresting. And before I say any more, let me note that the ferry windows (and all passengers were, I believe, inside) did not allow very crisp or clear images - in fact, they were frustratingly blurry. And the cabin was long and very wide, so most seats were well away from the windows.

I was lucky - front row, just off center. And in the last 15 or 20 minutes of the crossing, the skyline of Sultanahmet slowly emerged: I found myself in awe: Is that something on the horizon? are those minarets? OMG, I think they are! I think that's Istanbul!!! Yes, it must be -- the hills are beginning to become visible! OMG - my first views of the Blue Mosque and Hagia Sophia and maybe that's the Suleymaniye Mosque...?!?!

Then the ferry turned toward its dock and I had to prepare to debark and I don't remember any good close-up views after that (and none as good as those I saw from the other side of Sultenahmet on my return from the Bosphorus). I can't say that even the best views of Istanbul from the ferry were all that great, but they were my first views of that wonderful city and so I really can't be objective. I thought it a wonderful way to enter the city!

Bursa and Istanbul are amazing - enjoy!

I missed this report initially and am so happy to have come across it, as we hope to visit many of the same places someday! Thank you for a fabulously detailed and useful report!

Hi, TexasAggie - Thanks for your kind words, and many wishes for happy travels!

Thanks so much, kja!

Hi kja,
I reread this, as I'm getting into more detail prep for our trip.

Can you elaborate on how you booked your boat trip in Ucagiz? I suppose they speak English enough to understand what you are asking for?
Was it pre-arranged?
Did you share with others?
Did you get off the island? If so, any sense of how long you spent there?

Thanks

Hi, xyz -

The English-speaking hosts of my B&B in Ucagiz arranged my boat trip. As I recall, the boat's captain spoke only a few words of English, if that - but words weren't really needed. I was the only person, other than the captain, on the boat. My ride lasted a bit over an hour.

As I recall, the B&B host initially said he could arrange a fishing boat for 60 TL or a glass-bottomed boat for 100 TL, with either rate covering 1.5 hours on the water. I admit that I have no idea what the going rates were, but those prices were substantially higher than my (presumably out-of-date) guidebooks had suggested. I ended up negotiating a rate of 80 TL for a glass-bottomed boat for a ride that would be at least an hour.

I don't know if the extra price for a glass-bottomed boat was worth it: The only things that I saw through the pair of glass windows were a very few amphorae. I actually didn't see them on the first pass, and I give my captain credit for realizing that I hadn't looked in time and circling back and making a special effort to ensure that I did see them. That was the only thing that required the "glass bottom," which the captain kept covered through the rest of the trip. (I remember seeing a movie during my youth about a glass-bottomed boat that featured a boat that "really" had a glass bottom. This boat just had a pair of adjacent windows, and they were not visible until the captain rolled back a carpet and opened some hatches.) To be clear, it was interesting to see the amphorae in situ; I'm just not sure it was worth the extra cost.

I did not get out of the boat in the little bay near Kekova, nor had I wanted to - that was something I had discussed with my B&B hosts and so was part of the negotiation. My boat passed a place where several boats were moored and people were swimming. It looked like a pleasant little inlet. From what I read - which could be mistaken - no one is currently allowed to swim over the sunken city (part of an effort to preserve what remains). I suspect that children would find the chance to swim in this nearby inlet quite delightful. I also noted that some of the people on a few tour boats were quite vocally encouraging their tour-mates to get back on board so they could move on.

I didn't get off the boat at all, and must admit that I was a bit surprised - I had thought my negotiators understood that I wanted to get off at Kale to briefly explore the town and tombs. They were probably confused because I had said I did not want to climb to the top of the fortress walls. When I realized that my captain was not stopping there on the way out of Ucagiz, I didn't protest, thinking that he might be planning to stop there on the way back. When I realized that wasn't going to happen, I decided not to say anything, because I suspected that there had been some miscommunication along the line -- the captain had too much to lose by failing to honor an agreement with a local businessman, and so the misunderstanding was probably between me and the negotiator. Too, it only became clear that we weren't stopping there on the way back when we were already some distance from Kale, the wind and waves were picking up, it had been near the agreed-upon hour, and I was pretty much ready to move on. It was lovely, but I'm not that good at just sitting for very long!

Hope this information is helpful!

Hi kja,
Thanks for taking the time to provide all these details! I will have to see if our hotel in Kas might be able to arrange something for us.

I am not interested in the glass bottom boat – my worst sea sickness ever was in a glass bottom boat (that was more like a submarine, I admit), and while I understand this one is open, it would bring back bad memories. Plus, it really does not seem to be anything special, anyway.

We will just need to make sure they understand we want to get off at Kalekoy, and spend some tim there, explore the town, go up to the castle (I guess the view from there must be nice), see the tombs, and maybe have lunch there. Maybe they can just drop us off and pick us up later in the afternoon…
Thanks again, this was truly helpful.

Hi again, xyz -

It seemed to me that there were a lot of boats hovering around Kalekoy, so I'm sure that you'll find some options that suit your needs. Maybe our resident experts will chime in with advice?

I'm glad you found my comments helpful.

That's my understanding too, that there are a lot of boats...I don't know though if that is also true in mid-Oct, and I'm concerned about the language barrier. Plus, I have no idea how much such a trip might be, and we usually pay the asking price. I know, not a good idea in Turkey

kja, Just wondering if you remember the name of the Hamam in Antalya as I would like a more local experience than touristy.

Sorry, WhistlerNorth, I didn't think to write down the name. I think there are several hamams in Antalya that are centuries old; your hotel may be able to help you select one.

kja:

Hope you have a chance to see Syd:

SAT May 4 - Club Iota, Arlington, VA opening for Taylor Carson CD Release (this is basically DC, it's *right* across the river)
SUN May 5 - Mansion on "O", Washington DC, stripped down dining room show in the weirdest and cooleset mansion/B&B ever.
Stu

Thanks, Stu - I am definitely looking forward to visiting the very quirky Mansion on "O" again. Hope all's well!

Just read your trip report, kja....fascinating. Thanks for all the information.

Thanks, barefootbeach!

Kja,
My daughter and I are only in CAppadocia for 2 and 1/2 days.
I have rented a car, but am afraid I will waste a lot of time finding places and may not get to see as much as we would like.Did you have any trouble navigating? It seems like you covered a lot of ground in one day!

Otherwise I was thinking of doing this instead:
We fly in at 10:45..if we take a private car service to the hotel in Goreme I imagine we will get there in time for lunch..and then I thought, since we are within walking distance of the Goreme Museum,we would do that, maybe walk in one of the valleys in Goreme...do you know if Zelve is also within walking distance of the Goreme Museum.

The next two days I thought we would either just take tours or rent a car one day and take a tour the next...the third day our flight is out of Kayseri at 8:25, so I thought if a tour brought us back to Goreme at 5:30, we could take a car service back to the airport.

Do you have any thoughts on the pros and cons of tour vs. DYI

Hi, bnpast -

> Did you have any trouble navigating?

Not because of the roads. I thought the roads in/around Goreme were generally well-marked, but I should add that I did have a GPS system with me, so I might not have noticed if there were any poorly marked intersections. One word of warning: Those first few glimpses of fairy chimneys are very distracting! I first saw some very near the Goreme Open Air Museum, as I was driving the narrow, twisting road down from the plateau to the valley in which Goreme sits, and OMG, I nearly drove off that road! So take it slow and leave plenty of room for braking (for yourself and for any drivers in front of you).

> since we are within walking distance of the Goreme Museum,we would do that, maybe walk in one of the valleys in Goreme

There's a pleasant little valley just to the Goreme-side of the Goreme Museum, entrance to the left as you are walking back to town. You can walk in about a mile and then turn back. I think it was Zemi Valley, but I'm not positive, and I'm not sure it matters as I don't remember a sign.

> do you know if Zelve is also within walking distance of the Goreme Museum.

Well, that depends on what you consider walking distance! I arranged with my B&B to have someone leave me off at the Zelve Open Air Museum (where I spent about 1.5 hours) and then walked back to Goreme. The route is marked on a map that many local places seem to provide. It goes through Pasabag, where I spent about 1/2 hour, and then on to Cavusin, where I stopped briefly for tea. You then walk through a valley, with various options for exploring side valleys (e.g., the rose and red valleys), before heading back to Goreme. Unfortunately, I missed the turn-off, and so added about an hour to my hike. I ended at my hotel, after crossing the road to the Goreme Open Air Museum at a point that I think was about 10 minutes to the museum (but I can't swear to that). All told, my walk from the start of the Zelve Open Air Museum to Goreme took somewhere between 6.5 and 7 hours, including the time I spent at the museum and a LOT of time for taking photographs. I'm sure someone could walk it more rapidly if one wanted to do so. Or you could take longer, if you explore all the interesting side valleys or climb up to ridges for views, etc.

> Do you have any thoughts on the pros and cons of tour vs. DYI

I think that's really a matter of personal preference. The only place in Cappadocia where I thought a guide necessary was Kaymakli, the underground city I chose to visit. But I prefer to work without guides, and many people prefer to work with them.

There are many places in the area that can't be visited by foot. You have already realized that your options include a rental car, a hired car, or a group tour. Your call based on your preferences!

Hope that helps.

bnpast:

We found DYI to be no harder or easier than most anywhere else we've driven. Except for the larger cities, very mild traffic, decent signage, plenty of petrol stations (do they still give you an automatic hand wash job while filling your tank?)

I think Kja would agree with these statements. Indepdendence in Turkey takes on a whole new meaning. It's such a pleasure getting to and going just where and when you want, or to some place you've heard about at the moment.

We probably did more mileage than most since in a months visit, along with everything else in mid- and western Turkey, we took in the lake district. I would have no qualms about driving it...does your daughter drive also?

kja..Syd appreciated seeing you at the mansion! Isn't Mia an awesome entertainer.

Stu

I agree with Stu, although when I was there, washing a car was not part of the usual gas-filling routine.

<Stu -- I was so glad to see Syd and Mia, et al., again! Syd made me feel very welcome and passed on your regards. I look forward to seeing them again!>

kja, you will enjoy this (any other Fodorites at the Mansion?)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CEsQtwIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D8T_kfxT-IgE&ei=Yt6HUcP6I8m40QHMooCACg&usg=AFQjCNE6z4Sy5r3rRmcFhq8jTGWvPBhpiQ&sig2=9zn1oXhx98BwIBnwG0x6UA

Stu

stuarttower at aol dot com

Great stuff, Stu - thanks! And the bonus was that I have now seen Syd with a full set of drums. (He actually played a wine box (plus) when I saw him last year - by choice, from what he told me. )

Dari joined him for a few days this week. Too bad you missed her. On the 20th, they'll be playing in Ventura, so I'm getting ready for a late night. Invariably, I'm the oldest geezer by many decades at these gigs...I feel like everybodys grandpa. My email above, drop me a line so we don't have to keep on hijacking YOUR posts.
stu

Thanks to all for the info!

Glad you found it helpful, bnpast. Let us know what you end up doing and how it works out for you.

You are great kja, your report is very helpful. Thanks