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Solo, inexperienced traveler struggling w/ logistics

Solo, inexperienced traveler struggling w/ logistics

Old Dec 22nd, 2014, 07:22 PM
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Solo, inexperienced traveler struggling w/ logistics

This is my first post, so please be gentle....

I'm a woman in my late 40's, traveling solo for a month beginning 5/20/15. Last year, I took my first solo trip for 24 days, entirely by train (Rhine, Munich, Vienna, Rome, Nice, and Paris, in that order.). I should've left Paris off that trip, as I've been there 3x before and ending in Nice would have been perfect at the end of a long trip. This year, I'm flying from Los Angeles into Frankfurt (necessitated by mileage upgrade) and home from Barcelona. Upon arrival, Berlin and Prague are musts. I'm leaning strongly towards Amsterdam as well for the first part of the trip, though Budapest is trying to seduce me.

I'll then venture South, hopefully to warmth (either to Arles and then Spain or just Spain and perhaps, Lisbon). (I'd love to spend more time in Italy - especially the Amalfi Coast, but without a car and more time, I think I need to let that one go... for now.)

A couple things. I prefer trains unless they make absolutely no sense; I've no interest in renting a car; and I don't want to stay anywhere less than 3 nights. 4-5 is my preference. I'd rather take long day trips than check in and out hotels after a day or two. It's exhausting, especially when you're doing it by yourself.

In the early stages still, but initially I'm getting tripped up on a few things:
1. What is the most logical train route after I've gotten to Frankfurt, given that I'm stuck w/ flying into Frankfurt? It looks like (Amsterdam-Berlin-Prague?)
2. What's the best way to get to my 4th stop (which at this early stage could be Arles/Avignon or somewhere like Madrid (this would be the last stop before Barcelona, I suspect). My exit options will influence my route in 1., above, even if I'm doing some backtracking. I think I can take a night train from Amsterdam and perhaps Prague without an overnight stay somewhere so I can get directly to my destination, but any experience with this?

(I'm being greedy and know I'll get many conflicting opinions, but for those of you who have been to Amsterdam and Budapest, with this itinery in mind, do you have strong feelings about one over the other and why? I'm passionate about WWII history, but beyond that, I'll find something to love no matter where I am (except if it's a brewery, a vineyard or it involves shopping.)

Thank you so much in advance for your thoughts.
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Old Dec 22nd, 2014, 08:50 PM
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As an experienced solo female traveler, I'm glad you found your first such trip sufficiently satisfying to go solo again!

IMO, it would make sense to defer routing decisions until your finalize your destination list. Others may see things differently.

If I understand correctly, you are aiming for Berlin, Prague, Amsterdam OR Budapest, Arles and/OR Spain AND maybe Lisbon .... Yes, leave the Amalfi Coast for another trip! ;-) OR defer Spain (I'm now planning my second 3.5 week trip to Spain and am still skipping a LOT that I would like to see) AND skip Portugal (I'm waiting until I can give it at least 2 weeks).

If your purpose in going "south" is for warmth, have you consulted averaged temperature charts for the places you are considering? IME, by early June, most of Europe is comfortably warm.

Re: Amsterdam vs. Budapest -- IMO, both are wonderful. I think there is some logic to visiting Budapest in a trip that also includes Berlin and Prague. For that matter, Krakow and Vienna also make sense when you are in that part of the world, and a month that includes those 5 cities (with some day trips) could be quite nice in late May / early June. JMO.

Hope that helps!
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Old Dec 22nd, 2014, 09:00 PM
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Consider flying between destinations via one of Europe's budget airlines like easyJet. Sometimes a train is more fun (maybe if you love trains) or you can find an overnight train to save a night's hotel, but sometimes a cheap, quick, budget flight is better.

If you skip Amsterdam, you could train from Frankfurt to Berlin, Prague, and Budapest then maybe fly south toward Barcelona. Consider Krakow as well - a great city for World War II history (Auschwitz obviously is a must-see for most people, but the "Krakow under Nazi Occupation" located in the former factory of Oskar Schindler is a fantastic museum. And Krakow itself is a beautiful city mostly left untouched by the war. Krakow is a long day train ride from Budapest.

If you want to do Amsterdam, you could train from Frankfurt to Berlin and Prague, then fly to Amsterdam, then either train down to Barcelona (with a stop or two?) or fly down.

Budapest and Amsterdam are very different cities. It's hard to compare them. If you are interested in Amsterdam's museums, I'd lead toward Amsterdam; otherwise, I'd opt for Budapest myself. It feels more exotic than Amsterdam, though I hear Budapest is even more touristy now than it was when I visited in 2005.
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Old Dec 22nd, 2014, 11:02 PM
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Frankfurt to Amsterdam from 29 euros www.bahn.de/en (= German Railways) - look for a direct ICE with 0 changes.

Amsterdam to Berlin from 39 euros by InterCity train with restaurant car, they leave every two hours, www.bahn.de/en

Berlin to Prague from 29 euros, every two hours, www.bahn.de/en or www.cd.cz/eshop (= Czech Railways). Great scenery along the Elbe river valley between Dresden & Prague.

Prague to Budapest from 19 euros / 500Kr, www.cd.cz/eshop

Flying makes no sense for any of these, a 1-hour flight these days takes 4 hours, of hassle not relaxation as with the trains.

Budapest-Vienna from 19 euros www.mav-start.hu (= Hungarian Railways)

Vienna-Geneva from 39 euros www.oebb.at (=Austrian Railways). Using the Vienna-Zurich 'Wiener Walzer' sleeper train would save time, but the day journey is very scenic through the Arlberg Pass.

Geneva-Barcelona by TGV high-speed train from around 59 euros www.capitainetrain.com - a nice journey through great scenery out of Geneva, then more nice scenery along the south of France past all the lakes and flamingos, then past the Pyrenees with great views of Mt Canigou.
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Old Dec 23rd, 2014, 03:56 AM
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Sounds like a nice trip.

About your FRA - Amsterdam journey: "Man" suggests a DB savings fare ticket here. But if your plan is to hop a train straight to A'dam after clearing the security area, keep in mind that missing your scheduled train because of a flight delay (or whatever) will mean forfeiture of that ticket - and you'll need a new one at full price (around €120 for the direct ICE anyway.)

Also, I think you'll find that the lowest available fare is €39, not €29. Still a great price.

Forfeiture probably won't be an issue if you're planning to overnight on Day 1 in/near Frankfurt before heading north. Not sure if your previous visit to the "Rhine" (which is around 800 miles long!) included Mainz (about 20 min. by train from FRA) but if not, Mainz is a fine place to settle in. Easy to navigate on foot, nice old town pedestrian zone around the Romanesque Dom and along Augustinerstrasse. Some Roman sights, the Gutenberg Museum, Chagall windows, and more.

http://www.mainz.de/WGAPublisher/onl...lt/attractions

http://www.master.economics.uni-main...sse-abends.jpg

"I'm passionate about WWII history..."

2 suggestions on the way to A'dam:

Cologne's Documentation Center in former Gestapo prison (simple to visit on a stopover - use luggage storage at Cologne's main station, which you pass through on the way to A'dam anyway.)

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractio...estphalia.html

"Bridge at Remagen" Peace Museum in Remagen:

http://www.bruecke-remagen.de/index_en.htm
http://gogermany.about.com/od/cities...at-Remagen.htm

No lockers at Remagen station Best bet is to ask to leave bags at the Tourist Information office a couple of blocks from the Remagen station. The TI closes for lunch M-Th and is open only 10:30 - 14:30 on Sat and Sun.
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Old Dec 23rd, 2014, 07:31 AM
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I think you have several options given your 24 days, desire for about 4-5 days per city, and need to end up in Barcelona. If you want to see more than just Barcelona and are willing to fly into Madrid;

FRA - Amsterdam - Berlin - Prague - Madrid - Barcelona
FRA - Berlin - Prague - Budapest - Madrid - Barcelona

You could squeeze both Prague and Budapest in and that would be 6 cities with 4 nights each. Dropping Madrid and only visiting Barcelona is another option that provides more time in your other ddesired locations. It is less than 4 hours via high speed train between madrid and Barcelona so the option to do both is a good one.

Prague and Budapest, one of which you will no doubt be departing from to reach Spain, are far too distant from even Barcelona to consider a train; 24-30 hours with 3-4 connections, so you need to consider flying that leg. If flying, then Madird is just as logical a destination as Barcelona so that is where deciding on more than Barcelona comes into the equation.

if it were me, I would look at the convenience and cost of flying from Prague/Budapest to Madrid/Barcelona and if there is clear winner.

In and around early June, I can see, for direct flights;

BUD-MAD $80-180 (Ryanair at $80 - so extra charges likely)
BUD-BCN $68-127 (Ryanair and Wizz Air - charges likely)
PRG-MAD $150 (Czech Airlines and Iberia)
PRG-BCN $68-127 (Ryanair and Wizz - charges likely)

Not too much difference. If it were me, I would probably avoid the low cost carriers as the actual price will be higher than shown, and comfort less, and consider the PRG-MAD for $150 on regular carriers. That would leave

FRA -Amsterdam - Berlin - Prague -FLY- Madrid - Barcelona

If you really want to consider something, think about adding Seville between Madrid and Barcelona, High speed rail means less than 3 and 5 hours for each leg. It also gives you 6 stops of around 4 days each.
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Old Dec 23rd, 2014, 07:50 AM
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You people are saints. I actually have 30 days, excluding travel to and from the US.

I should've clarified that Barcelona also is a must see. And I hope a few other destinations in Spain. I think I'll fly directly into Madrid and yes, I will seriously consider Seville. I'd like to end my trip in Spain near water, as I did last time in a Nice.

I'm also going to consider Budapest and Krakow very seriously and perhaps scratch Amsterdam this time.

Thank you for the wonderful and practical information about trains and flying. The last time, I made a few rookie mistakes, like buying a very expensive Eurail pass that didn't do as much for me as I thought it would. And waiting too long to book a flight from Rome to Paris. And bringing my own blow dryer.
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Old Dec 23rd, 2014, 08:05 AM
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Hey LB,

> I should've left Paris off that trip,....

You are making the same mistake again. - too much traveling, not enough seeing.


Slow down and stop to smell the roses.
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Old Dec 23rd, 2014, 08:41 AM
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I believe Easyjet flies from Geneva to Barcelona, I wouldn't take the train myself. This overnight train stuff isn't so great, either, I really dislike them (the discomfort) and they are not "free" versus a hotel. If you have a nice private room, they are just as or more expensive than a hotel. The nonstop Easyjet flight takes less than 1:30 and costs about 50 euro. I really like that airline. The train takes from 8-17 hours and would require at a minimum of one transfer.

maninseat61 is selling a product, trains, and he just dislikes the competition, flights, rather than making ration comparisons
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Old Dec 23rd, 2014, 08:45 AM
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For really informative info on European trains and night trains check out these IMO superb sites: www.seat61.com - Man in Seat 61 who posts above his commercial web site; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com - download their free online European Planning & Rail Guide for suggested rail itineraries as you ask about.

If going to all or many of the places on your wish list check into various railpasses - www.seat61.com has as an official sponsor Rail Europe which lists zillions of difference types of passes - click on the link on his home page for RailEurope to peruse.
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Old Dec 23rd, 2014, 11:18 AM
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Thank you again, everyone. In re-reading my posts, I see how easy it is to confuse people.

This is the current itinerary ( which will no doubt change a dozen times).

From Frankfurt airport, head to Berlin by train for 5-6 nights (with day trip to at least Dresden); then to Prague by train for 3-4 nights, then either Budapest or Kraków for 3-4 nights. (I may end up going to both Budapest and Kraków, but that will shave off substantial time from Spain).

From my last destination, I will fly to Madrid and figure it out....

I didn't mind the overnight train from Vienna to Rome. Yes it was old, but I was exhausted and slept surprisingly well. And there was something absolutely magical about seeing Austria outside my window as the sun went down and waking up in Italy.
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Old Dec 23rd, 2014, 12:16 PM
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> head to Berlin by train for 5-6 nights (with day trip to at least Dresden); then to Prague by train.

I am not sure you have actually looked at www.bahn.com for the Berlin-Prague leg. All EC trains from Berlin to Prague stop at Dresden. Do you really want to do a 2 hrs + 2 hrs day trip to Dresden from Berlin, only to pass Dresden again later on the way to Prague?
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Old Dec 23rd, 2014, 01:42 PM
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Hi Greg,

Thank you. I knew it wasn't a quick trip, but I guess my thinking was that the 4 extra hours were probably preferable (for me and my back) to a hotel in Dresden - i.e., getting to and from hotel from the station, checking in and out, and unpacking and packing. I'm not the lightest packer (but I'm learning. . I understand many think Dresden is worth more than a day, so I'll give that more about that.
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Old Dec 23rd, 2014, 02:46 PM
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It is not even necessary to stay overnight in Dresden if a day trip was sufficient.

Do the math.

If 2:15 hrs Berlin-Dresden, stay a few hours, do 2:15 hrs back to Berlin was enough, then so is:
2:15 hrs Berlin-Dresden, put luggage in locker at Dresden HBF and spend time in Dresden, proceed on 2:20 hrs train to Prague. You have IDENTICAL overhead going to Dresden downtown from the Dresden HBF for both case.

I am not sure you have realized this, but this frees up at least 1/2 day in your schedule WITHOUT removing anything from your destination list WHILE eliminating BERLIN-DRESDEN-BERLIN train fares.

It is possible that you still have many assumptions keeping you from coming up with effective itineraries.
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Old Dec 23rd, 2014, 02:59 PM
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Also, in case you are carrying so huge a luggage that might not fit in DB station lockers, these lockers come in several sizes, and if you are passing through Berlin HBF or any large enough stations, there are identical sized lockers you can check the fit and read how to operate them before heading to Dresden HBF. Some huge stations like Cologne use automated locker kiosks, but I think Dresden still uses old style standalone units.
Here is an example of how how others used the lockers at Dresden:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic...en_Saxony.html
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Old Dec 23rd, 2014, 04:03 PM
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> "I may end up going to both Budapest and Kraków, but that will shave off substantial time from Spain"

Krakow is far enough from the rest of your route that it will take you a chunk of time to get there. Since Spain is a must-see for you, it probably makes sense to skip Krakow this time and wait until you can give it 4 or 5 days. Sorry if I threw you off track with my suggestion!
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Old Dec 23rd, 2014, 06:13 PM
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Prague to Krakow is a tough slog unless you want to go overnight; 7 or 8 hours with 1 or 2 changes in the day or an 8:55 long night train and Krakow to Budapest is even wrose 9-11 hours no night train option. Unless you are willing to lose 2 days or 1 day and 1 night on a train, you will need to fly to and from Krakow or drop it.

For your information, with nights to stay and travel times noted;

FRA
Berlin 5 4:15 train
Dresden 2 2:07 train
Prague 5 2:18 train
Budapest 4 6:53 train
Madrid 5 3:20 FLY
Seville 4 2:35 train
Barcelona 5 5:35 train

You could add another night to Dresden to meet your 3 night minimum preference and arrive late and leave early, shortening the time spent there.
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Old Dec 24th, 2014, 04:23 PM
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Aramis, you are a great trip planner!
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Old Dec 25th, 2014, 04:37 AM
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Aramis, I can't thank you enough.
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Old Dec 25th, 2014, 06:26 PM
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I'll be so bold as to ask your reasons not to rent a car.

In my opinion, one misses a lot by not doing so. Example: we like WW2 history (as well as other), and would never have had a fascinating afternoon in the MUSEUM EDMOND MICHELET in BRIVE LA GAILLARDE without a car.

Perhaps if you voiced your reasons, we could speak to their validity or not.
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