So, these tourism protests
#1
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So, these tourism protests
I haven't been following the forums lately so apologies if something similar has already been posted.
My question is what do seasoned travellers make of these "anti-tourism protests" (which is what they are effectively) that have happened in, amongst other places, Barcelona, San Sebastian, Dubrovnik, Venice and Santorini.
I can understand the locals frustrations at some elements of mass tourism, particularly package tours and cruise ships, where a lot less money probably filters down to the average man and woman. However, generally speaking, these protests (however small) would turn me off going to a place. My attitude would be if that's what you want then fine, I won't visit your city, no matter how beautiful it is. There are enough other places where my custom would be appreciated.
What do people think?
My question is what do seasoned travellers make of these "anti-tourism protests" (which is what they are effectively) that have happened in, amongst other places, Barcelona, San Sebastian, Dubrovnik, Venice and Santorini.
I can understand the locals frustrations at some elements of mass tourism, particularly package tours and cruise ships, where a lot less money probably filters down to the average man and woman. However, generally speaking, these protests (however small) would turn me off going to a place. My attitude would be if that's what you want then fine, I won't visit your city, no matter how beautiful it is. There are enough other places where my custom would be appreciated.
What do people think?
#2
I support the right of people in cities to invite who they want into them and I don't see that one special group, say those owning a hotel or a shipping line has special rights.
I feel it is important to abide by the laws, culture and feelings of a place in which I am a guest. The only area where i would challenge that is if the city was say destroying the planet more that it needs to.
Hence the environmental damage of cruise ships is awful and visiting areas that allow loads of them puts me off. Hence I would visit Iceland (only 2 allowed into 200 mile territorial waters at a time) rather than say Venice. As you say there are loads of places which are as interesting as Venice.
But I wouldn't see it as a customer-supplier relationship more one of supporting friends who have other problems in the same way as say visiting Huston right now and expecting top rate service would just be unreasonable.
I feel it is important to abide by the laws, culture and feelings of a place in which I am a guest. The only area where i would challenge that is if the city was say destroying the planet more that it needs to.
Hence the environmental damage of cruise ships is awful and visiting areas that allow loads of them puts me off. Hence I would visit Iceland (only 2 allowed into 200 mile territorial waters at a time) rather than say Venice. As you say there are loads of places which are as interesting as Venice.
But I wouldn't see it as a customer-supplier relationship more one of supporting friends who have other problems in the same way as say visiting Huston right now and expecting top rate service would just be unreasonable.
#3
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"I support the right of people in cities to invite who they want into them."
What does this mean? And how would it work in practice? "People in cities" is a very loose term - do a group of people have the right to veto tourists coming into their city? What about free movement of people etc?
What does this mean? And how would it work in practice? "People in cities" is a very loose term - do a group of people have the right to veto tourists coming into their city? What about free movement of people etc?
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What would put me off are the crowds at some of these destinations, especially where there are several cruise ships in port at the same time. Independent travellers would always be welcome—that's not what the protests are about. If there is a small protest going on you probably wouldn't even notice.
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I completely understand the point of view of people living in these places. I wouldn't want tidal waves of people washing through my home town either. And I think as a society we need to seriously consider the impact of these floating hotels which deposit thousands of people in towns never intended for such numbers enmasse. It's not a good experience for anyone (passengers, residents or other tourists) except the cruise companies.
#7
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There has to be a balance between tourists and locals. In some places the presence of tourists has too much impact on the locals. Airbnb is a case in point. I've read that in the center of Florence 20% of available housing is on Airbnb. At some point you destroy what is unique about a place. You want to 'live like a local' when there are hardly any locals left, as in Venice?
There was someone here on Fodors recently who basically said 'i'm spending money there so I can do whatever the heck i want'.
Free movement of people? By all means, but you don't have a 'right' to do whatever you want. If a city bans Airbnb, then book a hotel.
There was someone here on Fodors recently who basically said 'i'm spending money there so I can do whatever the heck i want'.
Free movement of people? By all means, but you don't have a 'right' to do whatever you want. If a city bans Airbnb, then book a hotel.
#8
I can imagine a quota being put on the number of visitors allowed in the central tourist zones of certain cities with an advance application to be made in certain seasons, just like for museum exhibitions or climbing Mount Everest.
This would ensure sufficient tourist revenue for the cities concerned, better conditions for both tourists and residents and the possibility for people to discover other areas in the various countries, which are so often overlooked by mass tourism.
This would ensure sufficient tourist revenue for the cities concerned, better conditions for both tourists and residents and the possibility for people to discover other areas in the various countries, which are so often overlooked by mass tourism.
#9
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I will continue to visit places like Barcelona or Venice because I love them and there's much too see that I haven't yet. I will try to visit in the off season, go for a week or longer, stay in hotels and be a kind tourist, the same as I have done until now.
I understand where the locals are coming from and don't take personally their protest.
I understand where the locals are coming from and don't take personally their protest.
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There are two issues driving these protests. Sheer numbers of visitors and making it too expensive for locals to live in 'town'. Short let apartments (I am not going to just point a finger at AirBnB) take apartments from locals and drive up apartment costs. Masses do damage to a city's infrastructurre and don't pay taxes to support their wear and tear. Add environmental issues to places like Venice, and locals are going to get worried and want to make a stand.
Controlling numbers, however, may be unfeasible. Yes, a city can refuse cruiseships the right to dock, but there is money going right into city's pocket and they are just as greedy as anyone.
Controlling numbers, however, may be unfeasible. Yes, a city can refuse cruiseships the right to dock, but there is money going right into city's pocket and they are just as greedy as anyone.
#13
"I support the right of people in cities to invite who they want into them."
This is a pretty slippery slope. What if they don't want to invite people who look different? Talk funny? Practice a particular religion? Vote for the wrong party? Write on internet message boards?
What if they want to exclude women? Gays? Refugees?
This is a pretty slippery slope. What if they don't want to invite people who look different? Talk funny? Practice a particular religion? Vote for the wrong party? Write on internet message boards?
What if they want to exclude women? Gays? Refugees?
#14
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I may be wrong, but the protesters are probably a small but vocal minority, and I'd be careful about thinking, "Well, if you don't want me, then I won't come." Would you feel that way if one person said protested? Ten? Fifty? How many does it take before you allow it to influence your thinking? Would just knowing that a few people aren't welcoming cause you to stay away?
Let's note that the people of Venice, for instance, have had ample opportunities to limit tourism and cruise ships, by voting for candidates and laws that would place limits on both. Every time, the pro-tourism forces have triumphed.
So to say that "people have the right to invite who they want" is something I wouldn't argue with, but which people have that right? The 10% who object to tourism? I get the environmental concerns, but I consider that an internal issue. Though I suppose one could support it by simply not visiting a city/country. That comes under the category of "you're free to spend your travel money as you wish."
>>This is a pretty slippery slope. What if they don't want to invite people who look different? Talk funny? Practice a particular religion? Vote for the wrong party? Write on internet message boards?
What if they want to exclude women? Gays? Refugees?
Let's note that the people of Venice, for instance, have had ample opportunities to limit tourism and cruise ships, by voting for candidates and laws that would place limits on both. Every time, the pro-tourism forces have triumphed.
So to say that "people have the right to invite who they want" is something I wouldn't argue with, but which people have that right? The 10% who object to tourism? I get the environmental concerns, but I consider that an internal issue. Though I suppose one could support it by simply not visiting a city/country. That comes under the category of "you're free to spend your travel money as you wish."
>>This is a pretty slippery slope. What if they don't want to invite people who look different? Talk funny? Practice a particular religion? Vote for the wrong party? Write on internet message boards?
What if they want to exclude women? Gays? Refugees?
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If it is a concern then you can avoid the over-the-top touristy areas of a country. There are numerous areas of a country (mainland/islands) that don't get that type of tourism level and may, in fact, be a better and truer representation of what that country is all about. And you may find the locals more welcoming if you come to enjoy what their country is all about and not be a typical demanding, pushy and obnoxious tourist.
However, I believe in Free Speech and people have a right to protest as long as it's done peacefully and without racism, bigotry, or singling out a specific group or people or religion.
However, I believe in Free Speech and people have a right to protest as long as it's done peacefully and without racism, bigotry, or singling out a specific group or people or religion.
#16
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Some national parks in the US have raised the question of limiting visitors in order to protect the park. This may become necessary for some cities too.
There is no absolute right to visit any place you want to.
Then there are governments that try to limit entry for people from specific countries. Does the 'free movement of people' only apply to certain people and certain countries?
Locals do vote, and local governments do take action - most notably to prevent scarce housing from being used as holiday accommodation.
There is no absolute right to visit any place you want to.
Then there are governments that try to limit entry for people from specific countries. Does the 'free movement of people' only apply to certain people and certain countries?
Locals do vote, and local governments do take action - most notably to prevent scarce housing from being used as holiday accommodation.
#18
thanks vince, you did a great job. No I'm not suggsting selection by "type". Nor am I saying they must be heard but in countries that do not have a winner takes all electoral system they have the right to propose some limits. Just as Florence operates no traffic zones, " oh but I drive a car, where are my rights? makes no sense.
Have a great day, I suggest holidaying should be "an exchange" rather than a power trip and a bunch of issues. A wise man once said take nothing but photos and leave nothing but footprints. Probably not the cruise liner's USP.
Have a great day, I suggest holidaying should be "an exchange" rather than a power trip and a bunch of issues. A wise man once said take nothing but photos and leave nothing but footprints. Probably not the cruise liner's USP.
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Well the lost cost intra-EU airlines could also be part of the problem besides the cruise ships. Big old carbon foot prints there esp. for long weekends for all those bachelor and hen parties
We were taking a cruise out of Venice a few years ago and the taxi driver that picked us up at the train station, well he liked the cruisers for his bottom line. So not sure you would be able to get an agreement from a majority of residents about limiting tourists.
All that being said - there is getting to be a rather lengthy list of places that I don't plan to return to because of the crowds. I am very thankful that I have seen most of the "A" and many of the "B" list sights of Europe. I'm ready to hea off the beaten path and slow travel at least for the next few trips.
We were taking a cruise out of Venice a few years ago and the taxi driver that picked us up at the train station, well he liked the cruisers for his bottom line. So not sure you would be able to get an agreement from a majority of residents about limiting tourists.
All that being said - there is getting to be a rather lengthy list of places that I don't plan to return to because of the crowds. I am very thankful that I have seen most of the "A" and many of the "B" list sights of Europe. I'm ready to hea off the beaten path and slow travel at least for the next few trips.