logos999

Bad or good news. The Bavarian referendum today had the following outcome.

Voter participation: 37.7%
For the new law: 61.0%

Smoking in ALL public places is prohibited from August but the law will not be enforced at this years Oktoberfest. No smoking allowed in restaurants either.

There goes freedom.

quokka

Congratulations Bavaria.

logos999

Checked again, it's public buildings, so "open air" so far is still legal.

bilboburgler

Welcome to the rest of the western world

LLindaC

Finally, freedom from secondhand smoke. That's REAL freedom. The smoking was horrible when we were there 3 years ago. Our hotel lobby was disgusting.

annhig

sorry logos, this is one case where the freedom of the non-smoking majority outweighs the freedom of the smoking minority, and I'm with the 61 x 37.7%.

it is positively a joy to be able to go out to pubs and restaurants and not to come home smelling like an ash tray. and as Llinda says, the general public ambience is greatly improved.

kerouac

Free from smoke. "Here comes freedom." Isn't that what you meant, logos?

logos999

Well, this is the 2nd and final change of the law. At first there was a rather strict law. Then bars found ways around it, i.e. by allowing smokers only. Before the last Bavarian election, the government promised people to pass a new, less strict law. Which they did. Those "health concious left wing eco parties" then pressed for a referendum. Which took place today.
The old law were designed to please every group with a "yes but ..." approach.

The new law simply states "No smoking".
Next thing for Oktoberfest would be "No drinking beer". Well, sounds rather good, actually. I wonder how they'll enforce the "No smoking" at Oktoberfest, however.

scatcat

Freedom from smoke for me! I elect to NOT breathe the smoke. But if smokers prefer it, I'm sure there are plenty of places left for them. I wonder if in the US or any place will ever make it illegal or abusive to smoke around your own children. They should have rights too.

quokka

Ever seen a beloved person brain-dead after an infarct caused by smoking? Well, I have. After that, my understanding for smokers, who harm not only themselves but also people around them, has become zero.

The result of the referendum is clear, and if we believe in democracy, this has to be respected. Those who could not be bothered to vote have no right to complain about the result now.

annhig

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8079357.stm

scatcat - here's a link for a movement to ban smoking in cars with children - and quite right too!

logos - why equate beer with tobacco? Generally, my freedom not to drink beer is not infringed by your right to drink it. NOT SO tobacco, use of which impinges on me whether I like it or not.

AnthonyGA

It's more dangerous to drink beer in a car than it is to smoke in a car.

scatcat

And I know there are parents who drink with their children in the car with them. The kids have no idea and no choice.

Cowboy1968

Fortunately, Austria is only 100kms away

I just wonder why we get both from our dear American friends: The tobacco and cigarettes AND the guilt and nannying that/why we smoke it. Hey, if you guys stopped producing the drug, we couldn't smoke it. It's a bit like having your daughter work the streets to let your son study theology LOL

scatcat

It makes me wonder why American cigarettes are allowed in Europe but not Butterfingers and Mike and Ike and others candies.

annhig

I'm not american.

and europe produces its own tobacco - eg in southern Germany.

for once, you can't blame the yanks.

HappyCheesehead

Loss of freedom? Is this Bavaria's first law protecting one person from the actions of another? We are all subject to many laws that stop us from harming others and this is a welcome addition to me. While I am not a Bavarian resident, I will be a visitor in September and am thrilled that I will be able to enjoy myself in restaurants and not come away reeking.

logos999

>why American cigarettes are allowed in Europe but not Butterfingers and Mike and Ike and others candies.
I believe it's because people don't expect Butterfingers to kill. They know, American cigarettes kill. ;-).

logos999

>Austria
Austrian are free people, they have a law, but people ignore it. It's up to an individual troublemaker to report smokers to the police. The police then takes a note .

It's not like you're driving on the Autobahn without a toll sticker.

scatcat

So as long as the people know that something can kill you, it's okay to sell. I must research to see what is killing me in Butterfingers cause I love them.