Seeking Diverse Experiences in Western France – Please Critique Itinerary!
Dec 21st, 2010, 09:36 AM
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Seeking Diverse Experiences in Western France – Please Critique Itinerary!
Hi, all!
I’ve developed a tentative plan for a 24-day trip to various parts of western France and would greatly appreciate your comments. My goal is to have a diverse range of experiences with cities and towns, different styles of art and architecture, varied natural scenery, etc. The trip is to occur this coming May, and I think I’m going to love it!
A bit about me: I enjoy art, architecture, museums, castles, churches, picturesque villages, relics/ruins, parks and gardens, natural scenery, brief stops in markets (mostly to take a few pictures), food and wine, and the chance to see and experience other parts of the world. I don't particularly like shopping, although I buy gifts for family and friends when I travel. I visited Paris once, many years ago, but have not been anywhere else in France. I’m a woman and will be traveling solo. I don’t speak French, but will do my best to learn at least a few basics before I go.
I think of an itinerary as a guideline, not a checklist or set of rules. I plan to reserve accommodations in advance, but am otherwise happy to change my plans in the face of whim or circumstance. Nonetheless, I don’t want to start with unrealistic plans. I think – hope! – this is an feasible, if ambitious, itinerary. I want to take full advantage of the time I have to see and experience things (except that I don’t like getting up at the crack of dawn). I don’t mind changing hotels every night or so. I’m not specifically seeking relaxation – I’m sure I’ll find relaxing over dinners sufficient for my needs.
I welcome any thoughts you have about this itinerary and ways to improve it.
Day 1 – overnight flight from the U.S. (east coast)
Day 2 – arrive in Paris mid-day
Days 3 – 7 – visit Paris, with a day trip to Chartres
Day 8 – Pick up a rental car in either Paris or Vernon and then visit Giverny, the Chateau Gaillard in Les Andelys, and possibly the Abbeye de Jumieges; overnight in Rouen
Day 9 – Visit Rouen and then move on to Honfleur
Day 10 – Visit Honfleur and Bayeux; reach Mont St. Michel in the early evening
Day 11 – Visit Mont St. Michel and (if time permits) Fougeres, reach Dinan in the early evening
Day 12 – Visit Dinan, St Malo (just to walk the ramparts), perhaps Dinard (for the view of St. Malo), Cap Frehel and Ploumanach (both brief stops to appreciate the views); reach Morlaix by early evening
Day 13 – Visit St. Thegonnec and Guimiliau, then Carnac; reach Vannes by early evening
Day 14 – Visit Vannes and (if time permits) Josselin, visit the tapestries in Angers; reach Fontevraud by early evening
Day 15 – Visit the Abbey in Fontevraud, then the Chateau de Chenonceau; reach Bourges by early evening
Day 16 – Visit Bourges, move on to Poitiers by early evening
Day 17 – Visit Poitiers and St. Savin; reach Domme (or another town in the Dordogne near there) by early evening (staying in Domme or nearby for 3 nights)
Day 18 (a Sunday) – Market in St. Cyprien, gabarre ride along the Dordogne, Beynac, Castelnaud, Les Milandes, and La Roque Gageac
Day 19 – the Vezere Valley — Les Eyziers de Tayac, Font de Baume, Village Troglodytique de la Madeline, La Roque St. Christophe, St. Leon sur Vezere, Lescaux II
Day 20 – Martel, Carennac, and Gouffre de Padirac; stay in Rocamadour
Day 21 – Figeac, drive along Cele River, and Pech Merle caves; overnight in (the controversial) St. Cirq Lapopie
Day 22 – St. Antonin Noble Val, Penne, Bruniquel, Cordes sur Ciel, and Castelnau de Montmiral; reach Albi by early evening
Day 23 – Visit Albi, go on to Toulouse mid-day (and spend the night there)
Day 24 – Flight from Toulouse to the U.S.
Thanks to all of you who have already shared information so generously on this forum and thanks in advance for any insights you can offer as I develop my plans.
I’ve developed a tentative plan for a 24-day trip to various parts of western France and would greatly appreciate your comments. My goal is to have a diverse range of experiences with cities and towns, different styles of art and architecture, varied natural scenery, etc. The trip is to occur this coming May, and I think I’m going to love it!
A bit about me: I enjoy art, architecture, museums, castles, churches, picturesque villages, relics/ruins, parks and gardens, natural scenery, brief stops in markets (mostly to take a few pictures), food and wine, and the chance to see and experience other parts of the world. I don't particularly like shopping, although I buy gifts for family and friends when I travel. I visited Paris once, many years ago, but have not been anywhere else in France. I’m a woman and will be traveling solo. I don’t speak French, but will do my best to learn at least a few basics before I go.
I think of an itinerary as a guideline, not a checklist or set of rules. I plan to reserve accommodations in advance, but am otherwise happy to change my plans in the face of whim or circumstance. Nonetheless, I don’t want to start with unrealistic plans. I think – hope! – this is an feasible, if ambitious, itinerary. I want to take full advantage of the time I have to see and experience things (except that I don’t like getting up at the crack of dawn). I don’t mind changing hotels every night or so. I’m not specifically seeking relaxation – I’m sure I’ll find relaxing over dinners sufficient for my needs.
I welcome any thoughts you have about this itinerary and ways to improve it.
Day 1 – overnight flight from the U.S. (east coast)
Day 2 – arrive in Paris mid-day
Days 3 – 7 – visit Paris, with a day trip to Chartres
Day 8 – Pick up a rental car in either Paris or Vernon and then visit Giverny, the Chateau Gaillard in Les Andelys, and possibly the Abbeye de Jumieges; overnight in Rouen
Day 9 – Visit Rouen and then move on to Honfleur
Day 10 – Visit Honfleur and Bayeux; reach Mont St. Michel in the early evening
Day 11 – Visit Mont St. Michel and (if time permits) Fougeres, reach Dinan in the early evening
Day 12 – Visit Dinan, St Malo (just to walk the ramparts), perhaps Dinard (for the view of St. Malo), Cap Frehel and Ploumanach (both brief stops to appreciate the views); reach Morlaix by early evening
Day 13 – Visit St. Thegonnec and Guimiliau, then Carnac; reach Vannes by early evening
Day 14 – Visit Vannes and (if time permits) Josselin, visit the tapestries in Angers; reach Fontevraud by early evening
Day 15 – Visit the Abbey in Fontevraud, then the Chateau de Chenonceau; reach Bourges by early evening
Day 16 – Visit Bourges, move on to Poitiers by early evening
Day 17 – Visit Poitiers and St. Savin; reach Domme (or another town in the Dordogne near there) by early evening (staying in Domme or nearby for 3 nights)
Day 18 (a Sunday) – Market in St. Cyprien, gabarre ride along the Dordogne, Beynac, Castelnaud, Les Milandes, and La Roque Gageac
Day 19 – the Vezere Valley — Les Eyziers de Tayac, Font de Baume, Village Troglodytique de la Madeline, La Roque St. Christophe, St. Leon sur Vezere, Lescaux II
Day 20 – Martel, Carennac, and Gouffre de Padirac; stay in Rocamadour
Day 21 – Figeac, drive along Cele River, and Pech Merle caves; overnight in (the controversial) St. Cirq Lapopie
Day 22 – St. Antonin Noble Val, Penne, Bruniquel, Cordes sur Ciel, and Castelnau de Montmiral; reach Albi by early evening
Day 23 – Visit Albi, go on to Toulouse mid-day (and spend the night there)
Day 24 – Flight from Toulouse to the U.S.
Thanks to all of you who have already shared information so generously on this forum and thanks in advance for any insights you can offer as I develop my plans.
Dec 21st, 2010, 09:54 AM
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Day 19 is probably overcrowded. The only reason to see Les Eyzies is to visit the Museum of pre-History. It's worth a visit, but then a couple of hours are spent there. Font de Gaume will also take a couple of hours waiting for the tour, the tour itself, getting to the car. The same goes for La Roque St. Chirstophe, St. Leon sur Vezere will be another couple hours (lunch stop?), and the same goes with Lascaux II. I have not even counted on the travel time between your starting point and all the various locations. I may be stretching the time spent somewhat at each location, but I don't think so.
Day 18 is similarly overcrowded. For example, Milandes has a half hour raptor show that you will want to see, unless you are visiting exclusively because of its Josephine Baker connection. Unless you arrive at exactly the right time, you will have to wait for the show to start, or maybe rush through the chateau to make sure you see the next show. Count on 20 minutes to walk from the parking lot to Castelnaud, which also takes a couple of hours to visit. Beynac is by guided tour only, which means some lost time waiting for the scheduled hour. And while the area between locations is quite compact, the roads between each location are not always the most obvious, nor very fast.
Day 18 is similarly overcrowded. For example, Milandes has a half hour raptor show that you will want to see, unless you are visiting exclusively because of its Josephine Baker connection. Unless you arrive at exactly the right time, you will have to wait for the show to start, or maybe rush through the chateau to make sure you see the next show. Count on 20 minutes to walk from the parking lot to Castelnaud, which also takes a couple of hours to visit. Beynac is by guided tour only, which means some lost time waiting for the scheduled hour. And while the area between locations is quite compact, the roads between each location are not always the most obvious, nor very fast.
Dec 21st, 2010, 10:06 AM
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I would go farther and say Days 18 and 19 are just impossible, especially since you say you don't like to get up early. Even though it won't be high season, there will be plenty of tourists on the roads and at the sights. Plus, there will be at least a 2-hour "siesta" during the middle of each day that could foil your plans. And it's not clear whether you have checked on what days things are open and closed. As Michael points out, too, you cannot expect to just arrive somewhere and get on a tour. You'll need to do some very exacting research about times and openings.
I think you have other impossible days in there, too. All in all, I'd guess that by Day 12 you'll already be a day behind.
I think you have other impossible days in there, too. All in all, I'd guess that by Day 12 you'll already be a day behind.
Dec 21st, 2010, 10:21 AM
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>>Day 1 – overnight flight from the U.S. (east coast)
Day 2 – arrive in Paris mid-day
Days 3 – 7 – visit Paris, with a day trip to Chartres
Day 8 – Pick up a rental car in either Paris or Vernon and then visit Giverny, the Chateau Gaillard in Les Andelys, and possibly the Abbeye de Jumieges; overnight in Rouen
Day 9 – Visit Rouen and then move on to Honfleur
Day 10 – Visit Honfleur and Bayeux; reach Mont St. Michel in the early evening
Day 11 – Visit Mont St. Michel and (if time permits) Fougeres, reach Dinan in the early evening<<
OK up to here !!!
>>Day 12 – Visit Dinan, St Malo (just to walk the ramparts), perhaps Dinard (for the view of St. Malo), Cap Frehel and Ploumanach (both brief stops to appreciate the views); reach Morlaix by early evening<<
I think this day will be hard to accomplish. There is a bit of a drive between Dinan and Ploumanach, and walking the trails in the "pink rock" section will take a couple of hours. There is really no benefit of a "brief stop" in the "pink rocks" - you'll have to get out of the car and take the trails out & back to really enjou them. Perhaps stay the night in Ploumanach so you can either visit the pink rocks in the PM or AM - they are quite impressive.
>>Day 13 – Visit St. Thegonnec and Guimiliau, then Carnac; reach Vannes by early evening
Day 14 – Visit Vannes and (if time permits) Josselin, visit the tapestries in Angers; reach Fontevraud by early evening
Day 15 – Visit the Abbey in Fontevraud, then the Chateau de Chenonceau; reach Bourges by early evening<<
I think I would stay in the Loire an extra day or two & visit a few more Chateaux. We were a little "underwhelmed" with Bourges. It was OK, but we've visited many other Michelin 3 star cities that we enjoyed a lot more (like Rennes, which you will drive close to, and Toulouse - your last destination)
>>Day 16 – Visit Bourges, move on to Poitiers by early evening
Day 17 – Visit Poitiers and St. Savin; reach Domme (or another town in the Dordogne near there) by early evening (staying in Domme or nearby for 3 nights)<<
I would pick up the extra day for visiting the Loire by skipping Bourges & Poitiers and head straight to the Dordogne from the Loire. Bourges/Poitiers/Dordogne would involve lots of time on the road - and IMO the "rewards" would not be worth all that driving &n "lost" time.
>>Day 18 (a Sunday) – Market in St. Cyprien, gabarre ride along the Dordogne, Beynac, Castelnaud, Les Milandes, and La Roque Gageac
Day 19 – the Vezere Valley — Les Eyziers de Tayac, Font de Baume, Village Troglodytique de la Madeline, La Roque St. Christophe, St. Leon sur Vezere, Lescaux II
Day 20 – Martel, Carennac, and Gouffre de Padirac; stay in Rocamadour
Day 21 – Figeac, drive along Cele River, and Pech Merle caves; overnight in (the controversial) St. Cirq Lapopie
Day 22 – St. Antonin Noble Val, Penne, Bruniquel, Cordes sur Ciel, and Castelnau de Montmiral; reach Albi by early evening
Day 23 – Visit Albi, go on to Toulouse mid-day (and spend the night there)
Day 24 – Flight from Toulouse to the U.S.<<
This is a busy & active schedule, but as long as you're willing to do one-nighters, I think it can be accomplished & give you a "first time" taste of western France.
Stu Dudley
Day 2 – arrive in Paris mid-day
Days 3 – 7 – visit Paris, with a day trip to Chartres
Day 8 – Pick up a rental car in either Paris or Vernon and then visit Giverny, the Chateau Gaillard in Les Andelys, and possibly the Abbeye de Jumieges; overnight in Rouen
Day 9 – Visit Rouen and then move on to Honfleur
Day 10 – Visit Honfleur and Bayeux; reach Mont St. Michel in the early evening
Day 11 – Visit Mont St. Michel and (if time permits) Fougeres, reach Dinan in the early evening<<
OK up to here !!!
>>Day 12 – Visit Dinan, St Malo (just to walk the ramparts), perhaps Dinard (for the view of St. Malo), Cap Frehel and Ploumanach (both brief stops to appreciate the views); reach Morlaix by early evening<<
I think this day will be hard to accomplish. There is a bit of a drive between Dinan and Ploumanach, and walking the trails in the "pink rock" section will take a couple of hours. There is really no benefit of a "brief stop" in the "pink rocks" - you'll have to get out of the car and take the trails out & back to really enjou them. Perhaps stay the night in Ploumanach so you can either visit the pink rocks in the PM or AM - they are quite impressive.
>>Day 13 – Visit St. Thegonnec and Guimiliau, then Carnac; reach Vannes by early evening
Day 14 – Visit Vannes and (if time permits) Josselin, visit the tapestries in Angers; reach Fontevraud by early evening
Day 15 – Visit the Abbey in Fontevraud, then the Chateau de Chenonceau; reach Bourges by early evening<<
I think I would stay in the Loire an extra day or two & visit a few more Chateaux. We were a little "underwhelmed" with Bourges. It was OK, but we've visited many other Michelin 3 star cities that we enjoyed a lot more (like Rennes, which you will drive close to, and Toulouse - your last destination)
>>Day 16 – Visit Bourges, move on to Poitiers by early evening
Day 17 – Visit Poitiers and St. Savin; reach Domme (or another town in the Dordogne near there) by early evening (staying in Domme or nearby for 3 nights)<<
I would pick up the extra day for visiting the Loire by skipping Bourges & Poitiers and head straight to the Dordogne from the Loire. Bourges/Poitiers/Dordogne would involve lots of time on the road - and IMO the "rewards" would not be worth all that driving &n "lost" time.
>>Day 18 (a Sunday) – Market in St. Cyprien, gabarre ride along the Dordogne, Beynac, Castelnaud, Les Milandes, and La Roque Gageac
Day 19 – the Vezere Valley — Les Eyziers de Tayac, Font de Baume, Village Troglodytique de la Madeline, La Roque St. Christophe, St. Leon sur Vezere, Lescaux II
Day 20 – Martel, Carennac, and Gouffre de Padirac; stay in Rocamadour
Day 21 – Figeac, drive along Cele River, and Pech Merle caves; overnight in (the controversial) St. Cirq Lapopie
Day 22 – St. Antonin Noble Val, Penne, Bruniquel, Cordes sur Ciel, and Castelnau de Montmiral; reach Albi by early evening
Day 23 – Visit Albi, go on to Toulouse mid-day (and spend the night there)
Day 24 – Flight from Toulouse to the U.S.<<
This is a busy & active schedule, but as long as you're willing to do one-nighters, I think it can be accomplished & give you a "first time" taste of western France.
Stu Dudley
Dec 21st, 2010, 10:59 AM
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I would not skip Poitiers or St. Savin because they contain highlights of Romanesque architecture. Bourges is a little out of the way and could easily be skipped. Its cathedral does not compare to Chartres' and the itinerary is very crowded as is.
Instead of reaching Bourges by evening, visit Langeais, or Azay-le-Rideau, or Villandry. The route from that area to Poitiers is more direct than from Bourges.
Instead of reaching Bourges by evening, visit Langeais, or Azay-le-Rideau, or Villandry. The route from that area to Poitiers is more direct than from Bourges.
Dec 21st, 2010, 01:50 PM
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Thanks, all – great information!
I admit that I find it very difficult to estimate how long things will take. I’ve been trying to get a sense by checking opening hours (including siesta breaks) and recommended amounts of time for visits (when noted), reading trip reports and the wonderful advice offered on this board, using mappy and viamichelin (throwing in some extra time for getting lost), etc. - doesn't always work. Your expertise is invaluable!
Sounds like I need to make at least a few changes to my plan:
Given Stu’s comments, I’ll plan on staying overnight in Ploumanach (day 12) so I'll have time to walk the Pink Granite Coast a bit. That probably means that I’ll have to skip one of the two parish closes (day 13). I would love to hear from anyone who can compare Guimiliau and St. Thegonnec.
(StCirq – when you guessed that I’ll be a day behind by day 12, were there other specific days you thought were too full?)
Also, I appreciate the input from Stu and Michael that I should skip Bourges. That could mean adding a day to:
- Normandy (which I would use to visit some of the WWII sites, as Images2 suggested), or
- Brittany (which I would probably use to see Quimper and/or Concarneau, as Avalon suggested, and/or Rennes, as Stu hinted), or
- the Loire (which, at least initially, appeals to me least – no offense, Stu and Michael!), or
- the Dordogne (which I would use to shift some things from days 18 and 19 and maybe add Eyrignac).
I’ll give thought to these options and re-check hours before coming up with a revised plan.
If I don’t add a day to the Dordogne (and maybe even if I do!), I’m considering skipping the Village Troglodytique de la Madeline (instead of trying to visit both it and La Roque St. Christophe). Also, maybe I should skip Beynac (instead of trying to see both it and Castelnaud). Comments?
BTW, I am willing to get up early for the occasional special purpose (e.g., to visit a market in the Dordogne) and I don’t normally eat lunch (but that doesn’t always make a major difference because of lunch-hour closings).
Again, thanks so much - and do keep the good advice coming!
I admit that I find it very difficult to estimate how long things will take. I’ve been trying to get a sense by checking opening hours (including siesta breaks) and recommended amounts of time for visits (when noted), reading trip reports and the wonderful advice offered on this board, using mappy and viamichelin (throwing in some extra time for getting lost), etc. - doesn't always work. Your expertise is invaluable!
Sounds like I need to make at least a few changes to my plan:
Given Stu’s comments, I’ll plan on staying overnight in Ploumanach (day 12) so I'll have time to walk the Pink Granite Coast a bit. That probably means that I’ll have to skip one of the two parish closes (day 13). I would love to hear from anyone who can compare Guimiliau and St. Thegonnec.
(StCirq – when you guessed that I’ll be a day behind by day 12, were there other specific days you thought were too full?)
Also, I appreciate the input from Stu and Michael that I should skip Bourges. That could mean adding a day to:
- Normandy (which I would use to visit some of the WWII sites, as Images2 suggested), or
- Brittany (which I would probably use to see Quimper and/or Concarneau, as Avalon suggested, and/or Rennes, as Stu hinted), or
- the Loire (which, at least initially, appeals to me least – no offense, Stu and Michael!), or
- the Dordogne (which I would use to shift some things from days 18 and 19 and maybe add Eyrignac).
I’ll give thought to these options and re-check hours before coming up with a revised plan.
If I don’t add a day to the Dordogne (and maybe even if I do!), I’m considering skipping the Village Troglodytique de la Madeline (instead of trying to visit both it and La Roque St. Christophe). Also, maybe I should skip Beynac (instead of trying to see both it and Castelnaud). Comments?
BTW, I am willing to get up early for the occasional special purpose (e.g., to visit a market in the Dordogne) and I don’t normally eat lunch (but that doesn’t always make a major difference because of lunch-hour closings).
Again, thanks so much - and do keep the good advice coming!
Dec 21st, 2010, 02:16 PM
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Think you definitely need more time for Bayeaux (if you want to see tapestry and anything of the invarions beaches, monuments and cemeteries) - spend a tleast onen ight - 2 is better. Also you need a full day to get to and see Mt St Michel - unless you're a mountain goat.
Dec 21st, 2010, 02:32 PM
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>>Also, I appreciate the input from Stu and Michael that I should skip Bourges. That could mean adding a day to:
- Normandy (which I would use to visit some of the WWII sites, as Images2 suggested), or<<<
Make sure that the WWII sites really interest you. That area of Normandy is not a paticularily "scenic" section of France. All the villages were leveled in WWII - except Bayeux, and even Bayeux is way down on my list of interesting villages of that size (Vannes is near the top of my list - so is Sarlat). The Tapestry in Bayeux is quite remarkable, however.
>>- Brittany (which I would probably use to see Quimper and/or Concarneau, as Avalon suggested, and/or Rennes, as Stu hinted), or<<<
IMO, Concarneau is quite touristy & only mildly interesting. Same with Quimper (compared to other cities in France). Visiting both would add a lot of mileage to your already "too many miles" driving trip. We much prefer the northern Brittany coast over the southern coast.
>>- the Loire (which, at least initially, appeals to me least – no offense, Stu and Michael!), or<<
I've stated many times on Fodors that the Loire is the least scenic region that we have visited in France - except for the Chateaux. The Chateau in Angers is a ruin, and not nearly as interesting as the other 3 star Chateaux in the Loire (we've seen them all)
>>- the Dordogne (which I would use to shift some things from days 18 and 19 and maybe add Eyrignac).<<
You can never spend too much time in the Dordogne.
>>If I don’t add a day to the Dordogne (and maybe even if I do!), I’m considering skipping the Village Troglodytique de la Madeline (instead of trying to visit both it and La Roque St. Christophe). Also, maybe I should skip Beynac (instead of trying to see both it and Castelnaud). Comments?<<
Don't skip Beynac or Roque Gageac. You could forgo the chateau in Beynac - but not the village - which is quite small & won't take much time to explore.
When you start each day, see the "least interesting" site last in the day - so if you run out of time then you won't feel bad about missing it. Domme/Roque Gageac/Beynac/St Cyprien/Castelnaud/Milandes are close together so you won't be doing a lot of needless driving if you try to visit them on the same day. Same with the sites in the Vezere Valley.
>>I would love to hear from anyone who can compare Guimiliau and St. Thegonnec.<<
We visited them both - and Thegonnec was the only one that "made it" into our Shutterfly album.
Stu Dudley
- Normandy (which I would use to visit some of the WWII sites, as Images2 suggested), or<<<
Make sure that the WWII sites really interest you. That area of Normandy is not a paticularily "scenic" section of France. All the villages were leveled in WWII - except Bayeux, and even Bayeux is way down on my list of interesting villages of that size (Vannes is near the top of my list - so is Sarlat). The Tapestry in Bayeux is quite remarkable, however.
>>- Brittany (which I would probably use to see Quimper and/or Concarneau, as Avalon suggested, and/or Rennes, as Stu hinted), or<<<
IMO, Concarneau is quite touristy & only mildly interesting. Same with Quimper (compared to other cities in France). Visiting both would add a lot of mileage to your already "too many miles" driving trip. We much prefer the northern Brittany coast over the southern coast.
>>- the Loire (which, at least initially, appeals to me least – no offense, Stu and Michael!), or<<
I've stated many times on Fodors that the Loire is the least scenic region that we have visited in France - except for the Chateaux. The Chateau in Angers is a ruin, and not nearly as interesting as the other 3 star Chateaux in the Loire (we've seen them all)
>>- the Dordogne (which I would use to shift some things from days 18 and 19 and maybe add Eyrignac).<<
You can never spend too much time in the Dordogne.
>>If I don’t add a day to the Dordogne (and maybe even if I do!), I’m considering skipping the Village Troglodytique de la Madeline (instead of trying to visit both it and La Roque St. Christophe). Also, maybe I should skip Beynac (instead of trying to see both it and Castelnaud). Comments?<<
Don't skip Beynac or Roque Gageac. You could forgo the chateau in Beynac - but not the village - which is quite small & won't take much time to explore.
When you start each day, see the "least interesting" site last in the day - so if you run out of time then you won't feel bad about missing it. Domme/Roque Gageac/Beynac/St Cyprien/Castelnaud/Milandes are close together so you won't be doing a lot of needless driving if you try to visit them on the same day. Same with the sites in the Vezere Valley.
>>I would love to hear from anyone who can compare Guimiliau and St. Thegonnec.<<
We visited them both - and Thegonnec was the only one that "made it" into our Shutterfly album.
Stu Dudley
Dec 21st, 2010, 03:06 PM
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Guimiliau is said to be the largest of these sites. We did not see the Calvary itself, as it was being repaired when we passed by. What we did see looked so new that it had lost the charm of age. By now it may have aged somewhat and might not be as strikingly new.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...7624616164661/
Within this set are pictures of St. Thégonnec and Guimiliau, plus others. The inside of a church may be as interesting as the Calvary itself. Look at the carvings of the Loc Envel church.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...7624616164661/
Within this set are pictures of St. Thégonnec and Guimiliau, plus others. The inside of a church may be as interesting as the Calvary itself. Look at the carvings of the Loc Envel church.
Dec 21st, 2010, 03:12 PM
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As for the Loire valley, it is pleasant but not particularly striking. But the chateaux are all different, and while Angers is essentially a ruin, the tapestries of the Apocalypse rival the unicorn tapestries in the musée Cluny.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...7624575935008/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...7624575935008/
Dec 21st, 2010, 03:15 PM
#13
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Thanks, nywoman!
My plan was to stop in Bayeux for the tapestry only. Mont St. Michel is a high priority for me, and I don't expect to leave it until I'm ready to do so. My schedule should permit a full day if that's what it takes me to see it. And based on what I've read about day-trippers, it is one place I hope to get a fairly early start. I will only go to Fougeres if I finish with Mont St. Michel no later than 2 or 3 p.m.; it sounds like that won't be likely.
Stu - once again, my thanks!
> Make sure that the WWII sites really interest you.
I'm decidedly torn. I'm sure I would find them very moving. I'm not sure I'm willing to give anything up to make time for them.
> Chateau in Angers is a ruin, and not nearly as interesting as the other 3 star Chateaux in the Loire (we've seen them all)
My goal in Angers would be to see the Tapestry of the Apocalypse. What were your reactions to it?
> You can never spend too much time in the Dordogne.
I'm getting that sense! And if I add a day there, I might be able to find a bit of time for Sarlat....
> Don't skip Beynac or Roque Gageac. You could forgo the chateau in Beynac - but not the village
OK! I will NOT skip these villages!
> When you start each day, see the "least interesting" site last in the day - so if you run out of time then you won't feel bad about missing it.
That's a lessen I learned the hard way on my 1st trip abroad! I try to balance my interests with what I can tell about the most reasonable route and opening hours, and I try to keep my priorities in mind so I can skip a site if necessary to ensure enough time at higher priority destinations. Doesn't always work, but I've managed fairly well in the past.
> We visited them both - and Thegonnec was the only one that "made it" into our Shutterfly album.
Glad to hear that - I was leaning to St. Thegonnec.
I'm so lucky to have the benefits of all your comments and advice!
My plan was to stop in Bayeux for the tapestry only. Mont St. Michel is a high priority for me, and I don't expect to leave it until I'm ready to do so. My schedule should permit a full day if that's what it takes me to see it. And based on what I've read about day-trippers, it is one place I hope to get a fairly early start. I will only go to Fougeres if I finish with Mont St. Michel no later than 2 or 3 p.m.; it sounds like that won't be likely.
Stu - once again, my thanks!
> Make sure that the WWII sites really interest you.
I'm decidedly torn. I'm sure I would find them very moving. I'm not sure I'm willing to give anything up to make time for them.
> Chateau in Angers is a ruin, and not nearly as interesting as the other 3 star Chateaux in the Loire (we've seen them all)
My goal in Angers would be to see the Tapestry of the Apocalypse. What were your reactions to it?
> You can never spend too much time in the Dordogne.
I'm getting that sense! And if I add a day there, I might be able to find a bit of time for Sarlat....
> Don't skip Beynac or Roque Gageac. You could forgo the chateau in Beynac - but not the village
OK! I will NOT skip these villages!
> When you start each day, see the "least interesting" site last in the day - so if you run out of time then you won't feel bad about missing it.
That's a lessen I learned the hard way on my 1st trip abroad! I try to balance my interests with what I can tell about the most reasonable route and opening hours, and I try to keep my priorities in mind so I can skip a site if necessary to ensure enough time at higher priority destinations. Doesn't always work, but I've managed fairly well in the past.
> We visited them both - and Thegonnec was the only one that "made it" into our Shutterfly album.
Glad to hear that - I was leaning to St. Thegonnec.
I'm so lucky to have the benefits of all your comments and advice!
Dec 21st, 2010, 03:31 PM
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Michael - messages crossing in hyperspace! Thank you SO MUCH for the links to your photos - they are absolutely wonderful and very inspiring! Loc Enval is tempting. I'm very excited about all the things I will see and experience on this trip, but I hate deciding what to skip when I plan a trip! And thanks for confirming that the Tapestries of the Apocalypse are worth seeing.
Dec 21st, 2010, 03:35 PM
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I'll agree with others that there are parts of the Dordogne and Lot where some days are crowded and also to skip Bourges to save time and add things elsewhere. But you've done a great job researching and picking a really interesting and varied itinerary.
It's always a risk but if you're willing to take the chance on a few of your crowded days maybe you could hold off on booking a room to allow yourself the flexibility of seeing what you want to see and not feeling rushed to reach a destination. You'll of course need to have a good guidebook for accommodation but you can also check with tourist offices (free of charge to assist with accommodation) and perhaps you'll also have internet access. You don't necessarily have to book last minute/same day but as you move along maybe you might have an idea of where you will be or what you will be doing 1-4 days in advance, at which point you could book. This means you can't always be picky about where you stay but I'm pretty sure that nowhere you stay would be horrendous.
Another thing you might consider is that perhaps in your Dordogne and Lot visit you pick a place to stay as a base for a few days and use it to make day trips. That way you've got secure accommodation and you can see as much or as little as time and your mood dictate.
In regards to seeing WWII sites and/or Quimper and Concarneau obviously that would require some itinerary revision. I'm a firm believer in seeing what most interests you so if you prefer to see those places in exchange for some things on your current itinerary then that's fine. But if you are happy with what you've planned then stick with it. You can't see everything that is worth seeing in these regions in 24 days so don't try.
On your days 11 and 12 I've got a few ideas. I like Fougères but maybe you could drop it. On Day 11 see the Mont in the morning and then go to Saint-Malo for your walk on the wall, visit Dinard for the view and end up at Cap Frehel and do the scenic drive along the coast before heading to Dinan for the evening. On Day 12 start with your visit of Dinan and then make your way to Ploumanach (and stay there instead of Morlaix as Stu has suggested). On your way you could drive the coastal road along the Côte du Goëlo and on the way drive down some of the small roads to the ocean where the map shows designated scenic roads and viewpoints and tiny villages and hamlets. Visit Paimpol on the way and also Tréguier on your way to Ploumanach.
Or, from Dinan drive along the coast past Paimpol and spend time meandering the small white roads on the northern part of this peninsula driving through small anonymous villages to scenic viewpoints along the cliffs. There are walking trails along much of the coast in this area. While here perhaps pass through the towns of Lézardrieux, Pleubian, Saint-Gonéry, Port-Blanc and Tréguier. Perros-Guirec is next to Ploumanach and worth a stop as well, as is walking along the coast in Ploumanach. If you have a Michelin map then near Ploumanach notice all the icons for megaliths and perhaps visit a few.
So on your day 12 drive from Dinan to Ploumanach there are lots of options and you can do whatever combo of these things is of most interest to you. You don't have to do them as I've laid out. Pick and choose what you have time for.
Lastly, I assume you have good maps of the scale of 1:200,000 for each region. If you ever want to get yourself lost driving then the Michelin maps have icons for all kinds of touristic and historic attractions that may not necessarily be in a guidebook. Things such as châteaux, abbeys, ruins, caves, churches, megaliths (especially in Brittany)designated scenic roads, scenic viewpoints and many others. And since you're traveling in May the days will be getting longer. You could have light until after 9:00 or 10:00 depending on what time in May you'll be here.
It's always a risk but if you're willing to take the chance on a few of your crowded days maybe you could hold off on booking a room to allow yourself the flexibility of seeing what you want to see and not feeling rushed to reach a destination. You'll of course need to have a good guidebook for accommodation but you can also check with tourist offices (free of charge to assist with accommodation) and perhaps you'll also have internet access. You don't necessarily have to book last minute/same day but as you move along maybe you might have an idea of where you will be or what you will be doing 1-4 days in advance, at which point you could book. This means you can't always be picky about where you stay but I'm pretty sure that nowhere you stay would be horrendous.
Another thing you might consider is that perhaps in your Dordogne and Lot visit you pick a place to stay as a base for a few days and use it to make day trips. That way you've got secure accommodation and you can see as much or as little as time and your mood dictate.
In regards to seeing WWII sites and/or Quimper and Concarneau obviously that would require some itinerary revision. I'm a firm believer in seeing what most interests you so if you prefer to see those places in exchange for some things on your current itinerary then that's fine. But if you are happy with what you've planned then stick with it. You can't see everything that is worth seeing in these regions in 24 days so don't try.
On your days 11 and 12 I've got a few ideas. I like Fougères but maybe you could drop it. On Day 11 see the Mont in the morning and then go to Saint-Malo for your walk on the wall, visit Dinard for the view and end up at Cap Frehel and do the scenic drive along the coast before heading to Dinan for the evening. On Day 12 start with your visit of Dinan and then make your way to Ploumanach (and stay there instead of Morlaix as Stu has suggested). On your way you could drive the coastal road along the Côte du Goëlo and on the way drive down some of the small roads to the ocean where the map shows designated scenic roads and viewpoints and tiny villages and hamlets. Visit Paimpol on the way and also Tréguier on your way to Ploumanach.
Or, from Dinan drive along the coast past Paimpol and spend time meandering the small white roads on the northern part of this peninsula driving through small anonymous villages to scenic viewpoints along the cliffs. There are walking trails along much of the coast in this area. While here perhaps pass through the towns of Lézardrieux, Pleubian, Saint-Gonéry, Port-Blanc and Tréguier. Perros-Guirec is next to Ploumanach and worth a stop as well, as is walking along the coast in Ploumanach. If you have a Michelin map then near Ploumanach notice all the icons for megaliths and perhaps visit a few.
So on your day 12 drive from Dinan to Ploumanach there are lots of options and you can do whatever combo of these things is of most interest to you. You don't have to do them as I've laid out. Pick and choose what you have time for.
Lastly, I assume you have good maps of the scale of 1:200,000 for each region. If you ever want to get yourself lost driving then the Michelin maps have icons for all kinds of touristic and historic attractions that may not necessarily be in a guidebook. Things such as châteaux, abbeys, ruins, caves, churches, megaliths (especially in Brittany)designated scenic roads, scenic viewpoints and many others. And since you're traveling in May the days will be getting longer. You could have light until after 9:00 or 10:00 depending on what time in May you'll be here.
Dec 21st, 2010, 03:52 PM
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I don't think you need a full day for Mt St-Michel; half a day is adequate, as long as you get there early.
Do put the megaliths in and near and should definitely stay in your itinerary. As for the castle, the best thing about it is the formal gardens in the moat.
Be sure to look at the Michelin green guides for driving itineraries, as they're very good for estimating time required.
Do put the megaliths in and near and should definitely stay in your itinerary. As for the castle, the best thing about it is the formal gardens in the moat.
Be sure to look at the Michelin green guides for driving itineraries, as they're very good for estimating time required.
Dec 21st, 2010, 04:47 PM
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I would agree about not needing a whole day at The Mont but if it is a very important visit for you then take all the time you need. I'm assuming your plan is to spend the night there on day 10. The best time to see the Mont is at night when the tourists have gone and it is all lit up and magical. Also the best time to walk the narrow crooked paths to various terraces and to walk along the ramparts. You can see everything there is to see on the Mont in the evening and in the morning all that is left to see is the abbey. This could take as little as an hour or as much as 3+ hours depending on your interest and/or if you are doing a tour (audio or guided).
I love staying on the Mont overnight (despite it being overpriced) and I'm sure you will too. If you are spending the night there that is certainly one place you want to try to book as far in advance as possible.
I love staying on the Mont overnight (despite it being overpriced) and I'm sure you will too. If you are spending the night there that is certainly one place you want to try to book as far in advance as possible.
Dec 22nd, 2010, 08:08 AM
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I wouldn't miss the tapestries in Angers. But I'd also make time to go see the Musée Jean Lurçat there to see HIS take on the tapestries. Both very impressive. His other museum is outside St-Céré in the Lot.
I would definitely not skip Beynac or La Roque-Gageac. And keep in mind the Hundred Years War history, and what was happening on the north and south sides of the river - that's why you want to visit both Beynac and Castelnaud châteaux, assuming you're interested in the history.
Le Village Troglodytique de la Madeleine is an easy skip. You just walk down a path to the river and see the same types of abris you see pretty much everywhere else. Far more interesting, if you have the time for it (unlikely) is the walk up into the hills over St. Léon-sur-Vézere to the "hidden" door where you can enter and walk into an abri much like the one at La Roque-St-Christophe, but smaller - and usually have the place all to yourself.
I sincerely doubt you'll need a full day for Le MSM - it's just not that big. A half-day would probably be more than adequate. And I'd recommend that half-day be at the end of the day because it really is so much more appealing when the crowds have left. I also agree you could skip Fougères, though I do like that town (as well as Vitré). Also agree about Quimper - not a must-see IMO.
I would definitely not skip Beynac or La Roque-Gageac. And keep in mind the Hundred Years War history, and what was happening on the north and south sides of the river - that's why you want to visit both Beynac and Castelnaud châteaux, assuming you're interested in the history.
Le Village Troglodytique de la Madeleine is an easy skip. You just walk down a path to the river and see the same types of abris you see pretty much everywhere else. Far more interesting, if you have the time for it (unlikely) is the walk up into the hills over St. Léon-sur-Vézere to the "hidden" door where you can enter and walk into an abri much like the one at La Roque-St-Christophe, but smaller - and usually have the place all to yourself.
I sincerely doubt you'll need a full day for Le MSM - it's just not that big. A half-day would probably be more than adequate. And I'd recommend that half-day be at the end of the day because it really is so much more appealing when the crowds have left. I also agree you could skip Fougères, though I do like that town (as well as Vitré). Also agree about Quimper - not a must-see IMO.
Dec 22nd, 2010, 09:14 AM
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>>I sincerely doubt you'll need a full day for Le MSM <,
I agree.
We got to MSM around 8:00 am & visited the sections below the Abbey - before the crowds arrived. We got in line for the Abbey around 8:45 - 15 mins before it opened. We toured the Abbey with head-sets for around 1+ hrs, then returned to the section below the Abbey - it was a mob scene. We checked out a few other sites (perhaps Archeoscope), but decided to "pass" on them. By 11:00 we were ready to flee the mobs - shuffling down the streets shoulder-to-shoulder instead of a normal walk was very frustrating. By that time, the merchants had loaded the streets with trinket displays - toothbrushes with every child's name on them, soup bowls with names, barrets, postcard stands, etc. My FIL was with us and had just seen a Rick Steves show about MSM, so he wanted to have an Omelette at Mere Poulard (very bland). While we were sitting at Mere Poulard, about 20 other patrons (many groups - not just 1 group of 20) came into the restaurant, were seated by the hostess, read the menu, and about 15 of them got up & departed the restaurant without ordering anything.
This was in June '01 & was our 2nd visit to MSM. Mt wife was also there when she was a student in Brittany in '66 - on the 1,000th year anniversary of MSM. She purchased a poster commemorating the event, which we have displayed in our living room)
Stu Dudley
I agree.
We got to MSM around 8:00 am & visited the sections below the Abbey - before the crowds arrived. We got in line for the Abbey around 8:45 - 15 mins before it opened. We toured the Abbey with head-sets for around 1+ hrs, then returned to the section below the Abbey - it was a mob scene. We checked out a few other sites (perhaps Archeoscope), but decided to "pass" on them. By 11:00 we were ready to flee the mobs - shuffling down the streets shoulder-to-shoulder instead of a normal walk was very frustrating. By that time, the merchants had loaded the streets with trinket displays - toothbrushes with every child's name on them, soup bowls with names, barrets, postcard stands, etc. My FIL was with us and had just seen a Rick Steves show about MSM, so he wanted to have an Omelette at Mere Poulard (very bland). While we were sitting at Mere Poulard, about 20 other patrons (many groups - not just 1 group of 20) came into the restaurant, were seated by the hostess, read the menu, and about 15 of them got up & departed the restaurant without ordering anything.
This was in June '01 & was our 2nd visit to MSM. Mt wife was also there when she was a student in Brittany in '66 - on the 1,000th year anniversary of MSM. She purchased a poster commemorating the event, which we have displayed in our living room)
Stu Dudley
