Scotland Highland Help!

It would be better to do the Conwy(Wales) part before Stratford, oitherwise you are doing a big backtrack. By "keswock" I assume you mean Keswick in the Lake district.

From Oban take a trip to Mull and Iona. Iona has the Abbey where many of Scotland's early kings (including Macbeth) are burried. Dunstaffnage Castle is just a few miles outside of Oban.

Conwy has its own castle, city walls to walk, a Tudor merchant's house and lots of odd bits of history. Beaumaris is a wonderful castle complete with moat. Great photo ops during your visit. Caernarvon has its wellknown castle and some Roman ruins. Penrhyn Castle is a nineteenth century magnates castle fantasy. Interesting collection of toys. All within easy drive.

Harlech is a bit farther afield. I took the train from Conwy to Penrhynhyndeudraeth and changed (short wait) for train to Harlech as I was tired of driving. Harlech overlooks the sea from a high cliff and is a great view from below and the sea is a great view from the castle. A steam railway is used on part of the train trip. On the way back from Harlech, I stopped at Blenau Festiniog (where you change trains)and visited the slate mine. There is a decent road to Harlech and there are lots of interesting spots along the way.

The really tough day will be Oban to Keswick--over 200 miles, if I read my map correctly. Much of it on Motorway but even that can be dicey with traffic jams or raodworks. Check Michelin.com and add some time as they tend to be optomistic.
There are people here who will chime in with better estimates than I as they have probably done that drive or enough parts of it to know what to look for.

How many nights are you spending at each place?
The drives from Oban to Keswick (I presume) and Keswick to Stratford will take at least 4-5 hours for someone who is used to driving in British traffic conditions, so by the time you stop for lunch and check in and out of hotels, most of your travelling day has been used up. You will also have to retrace your journey to travel to Conwy from Stratford. If you are only going there to see a castle you may as well spend longer in Ediburgh and see the castle there and maybe take a trip to Dirleton Castle near North Berwick which is a ruined castle where you can wander round without many restrictions.

"Is this trip too ambitious?" Yes.

Conwy to Stradford makes more sense.
Is Oban worth seeing? My impression from the guide books is that the Highlands aren't to impressive. Am I way off?

Yes, Peter, you are way off. Oban is lovely; it tends to be a way station rather than a destination. It's also a slightly odd place to go to see Loch Ness from. Doable, but odd.

This may sound like a stupid question but what do you think of as a castle?

"My impression from the guide books is that the Highlands aren't to impressive."

OMG! Just OMG -nothing else to say.

"Am I way off?"

Yes.

"Is this trip to ambitious?"

Yes.

Other random thoughts (other than OMG)

• Oban is not a base for "Loch Ness, etc."

• You have 1.5 days in Edinburgh, 1.5 days for Oban and everything else you might want to see in Scotland, no time at all in the Lake District, and less than a full day in Wales. Does that look like it makes sense?

• You say 2 days in Wales/fly home from London. North Wales is a half day drive from Heathrow.

• Sit down w/ a guide book - but NOT the one that said the Highlands aren't impressive - and a map, and rethink everything. from

I'm in a shame spiral

Should I skip Wales and spend more time in the highlands? The Rick Steves book seemed to love Wales (3stars) compared to the Highlands (1. Star).

Sorry for probably pretty dumb questions....

"The Rick Steves book . . . "

That is ALL you needed to say (in fact I suspected you meant a RS book). Trust me --he may provide good info for other parts of Europe, but for the UK he really is a putz (nicest word I could think of - and I've met the man -- twice).

Distances look short but travel takes a LOT of time. How many actual days between your arrival and departure (give us the dates), and which airport are you flying out of?

Flying out to edi on June 23 and out of Heathrow on July 3rd.
This is a trip for our daughter who always wanted to go to Scotland. She loves history, castles etc. She has been to London before and Windsor castle. A stop at Stradford upon Avon is a must to see a Shakespeare play too.
Thanks for any and all help
Peter

Castle? What sort of castles?

I'm assuming Conwy may be there for the castle. But there's also a classic castle in Edinburgh.

As for the Highlands, well, it's a matter of taste. See if this helps make a difference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGDFZfgNYlo

Thanks for the video. The Highlands seems very nature centric .I guess what lent me towards Wales is that the guide book called it one of the most beautiful places in the UK. They made the Highlands seem like hours of driving amongst the hills . Is this off?

You guidebook sounds very strange. Can you not find a real one that will give you more information? The Highlands are usually regarded as the most scenic part of Britain. But don't go if you don't want to. You can have a great time in Wales as well.

But you can go driving for hours amongst the hills in Wales too. What exactly were you expecting?

Your current plan doesn't involve hours of driving in the hills - but it does include hours of driving on motorways.
I know which I'd prefer.

I think you need to borrow or buy another guidebook, and also decide on what exactly your priorities are.
Also define a castle - do you want intact castles that you can walk around and see rooms, or do you want ruins?

You say you want to see a Shakespeare play in Stratford. Have you looked to see what, if anything, is on during your time in the UK. Maybe, if that is a high priority, you will have to re-jig your trip around when you can get tickets.

Are there many castles in Wales? Yes. Are there more castles in Scotland? Definitely - no matter your definition/mental image of a castle. Wales is wonderful. Scotland is even more so in a lot of ways.

You could have a great holiday in Wales -- but since you land at EDI, I personally don't see the point.

Start over. What you want is Scotland, maybe Stratford upon Avon and London. It is easier to get to Stratford by train from London than by car or train from Edinburgh. What I would do is visit Edinburgh for a couple of days,pick up a car, spend a few days touring a small part of Scotland, drop the car and take the train or fly to London for your last couple of days. Visit Stratford from London. Whether as a day trip or an overnight depends on if you want/can get tickets to an evening performance.

Oh -and go to your local bookstore - find the UK travel section, go to near the end of the shelf(s) where the Scotland - specific titles are (don't go to the very end or you'll be back in Wales), and pick up a new guide book. NOT one w/ Rick Steves name on it . . .

I was going to suggest doing Stratford form London maybe with an overnight to take in a performance at RSC, but janisj beat me to it . I believe trains depart from Marylebone Station.
Wales is great but Scotland better IMO and you don't have time for both.

There are plenty of good guidebooks. My favorites are Footprints and Lonely Planet. Peter Irvine's Scotland the Best is excellent too.

Look for the DK book on Scotland. The pics should put paid to the notion of the Highlands as overrated.

And if you like castles, you're really going to the wrong side of the Highlands. There are some nice ones west of Loch Ness, but more gems are east of it. Aberdeenshire is filled with castles and on the way there from Edinburgh (or back), you can see Scone Palace, Glamis Castle (HRM's childhood home), and with a bit of a detour Stirling and Blair Castles.

"And if you like castles, you're really going to the wrong side of the Highlands."

Since peterad is (hopefully) tearing up the first plan - he isn't on either side of the Highlands just yet.

Once we have him convinced, we can help w/ the itinerary/castles to visit.

I am really really appreciative of everyone's input. I am tearing up my original plan and I do want to stay in Scotland for the entire trip except for Stradford. Any input would be great. Is the Island of Skye a worthwhile stop? Are the fodors or frommers guides any good ?

Thanks!

FODORS GUIDES ARE UNIFORMLY EXCELLENT!!!

And now that's out of the way (where IS my freebie?) . . . If Fodors has a photo-heavy travel guide for Scotland (I think it does), check that out. Those compete with the DK offerings and tend to be good. Personal preference is to get the photo-heavy guides to see what I should look for and then backtrack for info on the 'web instead of reading all the blahblahblah in Frommer or regular Fodor.

Towheaded PBS guy from Seattle area is nearly all blahblahblah, but he's useless for Scotland. Has an anti-Anglo thing going on in his moppy head.

Fodors and Frommers are basically the same. Both good but my favorites for the Highlands are Footprint Scotland Highlands and Islands, and The Rough Guide to Scottish Highlands and Islands Handbook. For Scotland in general Peter Irvine's Scotland the Best is excellent followed by Frommer's and/or Fodors.

To get started...www.visitscotland.com

And, VIP, a good map.

yes -Skye is worth a stop, but not if you only mean a 'stop'. It is a very large, very rural island w/ amazing scenery and very slow roads. One needs a minimum of 2 nights on Skye since it takes hours to get there from just about anywhere else.

Before you decide on Skye or not, decide where else you want to visit and figure out the logistics.

Another good website for research is http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/

No, pressure, eh, Peter?

I still want to know what sort of castle you like. We have a HUGE number. But something like:-

Fly into Edinburgh, spend three days
Drive north (insert details later- but include Bannockburn, Skye (sigh) and Culloden), spend 4 nights
Fly to London
Train to Stratford (nb spelling) over night, train back to London.

In the Scottish bit, you could get the Wars of Independence, the '45, Edinburgh Castle, Mary Queen of Scots, Holyrood House, Dunvegan Castle, Brodie, Cawdor, (nb MacBeth- Thane of Cawdor, and believe me, you will find some blasted heaths), and Urquhart Castles, Fort George, the Clearances, and a pile of pre-history.

Would that do?

I like Cadogan's guide for Americans- not many pictures, but lots of quirky stories. I wouldn't use Scotland the Best as a starting point. Decide where you're going then check out what's great round about that.

Fodor's EXploring Scotland is the picture guide- closest to the DK, I think
Drive to Conwy spend two days and head home from London

Thanks for all the great tips! We decided to extend our trip to July 4th so we can maximize our Scotland experience . I do adore castles in all stages; we loved Neuschwanstein but also loved walking amongst the ruins adjacent to Adare manor. All the other historical stuff would be important too. I will visit my B&N and pick up a new guide tonight!

<<Fodors and Frommers are basically the same.>>

I'm thinking Doug Stallings just choked on his breakfast.

More excellent castles: Fraser, Craigevar, Dunrobin (an unknown gem), Drum. Brodie photographs well but there's not much to it. Cawdor is more interesting and more fun.

And if you can figure out a way to get there, HRM will not be in residence at Balmoral, so you can visit. In August, she goes there for her annual retreat.

Big Russ...yeah, expect to be banned any time now. This isn't the first time I've suggested that there are better sources. In fact I think I've done it twice just on this post. Accidently.

Shelia, I agree Irvine's is not the best book to begin with and initially found it a bit difficult to navigate, but it does have some great information as to the best castles, most interesting ruins, etc.

peterad, You'll find there are more castles than you can possibly visit in one trip. Have a closer look at the suggestions from sheila and Big Russ.If you decide to go to Oban/Mull there's Duart Castle,Dunstaffnage Castle and the ruins of Dunollie which are actually more impressive viewed from the town or from Oban Bay than from up close. For Skye Dunvegan Castle, the ruins of Duntulm just for a start.

Right near Stratford is Warwick Castle. This is not a pile of stones; it's more of a theme park. But it is a real castle, one that's furnished so you can see how people lived there. (I also liked Burg Eltz for the same reason.)

There are lots of kid-oriented activities at the castle, but I, in my 50s, still enjoyed it. www.warwick-castle.co.uk

Back in Scotland, if you go to (or leave) Skye by the bridge, you'll probably go right by Eilean Donan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eilean_Donan

And then there's Stirling Castle...and so on.

This forum once again delivers!

Thanks again and happy Valentine's day!

How about these - will they do?

Kilchurn http://tinyurl.com/7ocuxjw

Dunnottar http://tinyurl.com/6rwkkg3

Glamis http://tinyurl.com/7lk4sok

Stirling http://tinyurl.com/6vzaypy

Edinburgh http://tinyurl.com/7bs2nqr

Dunrobin http://tinyurl.com/6lsb6lv

Just a TINY sample to get you started . . .

This is an excellent thread...good humour from both the OP and contributors - loved Janis's first comments.

Yes, Skye is absolutely brilliant and I do hope you do a trip report.

oops - messed upon the url for Stirling

http://tinyurl.com/8878zwb

A trip report is the least this Yank can do .

Tapadh leat!

Well, jumping in here with some well traveled lasses and lads, so at some peril - I would emphatically say: Yes, the Magical Isle of Skye is worth the trip.

I loved Edinburgh (flew into London and hoped on a train and was there 4 hours later) - and the historic Castle there is simply amazing - (get one of the kilted ones to give you a tour). Suggest you get a hop on - hop off bus ticket to tour around Edinburgh - and the Cream and Green was very good, recommended by my bartender - and she was a hoot to boot.

Then after a visit to St. Andrews - not only the birthplace of golf, but where Prince Edward met his lovely bride at the University- it was off - via train - up through Harry Potter country (well - they filmed parts of it there) to Inverness and over to Skye.

Couldn't get a rental car - but got a taxi to my fabulous resort (just dumb luck - read about it in Frommer's) - at the south end, once voted the most "romantic" in the UK - and will get their web page. Fabulous restaurant and pub - and they recommended a great tour guide (which I usually don't do) and Mr. McDonald - naturally of the McDonald clan - was outstanding, and what an island - with both the Red and Black mountain ranges.

From the resort grounds - you look across the channel to the famous Eilean Donan castle and artists and photographers are always on the grounds doing their thing. http://www.eileandonancastle.com/

Hey - they were even distilling the great single malt Talisker there - but it has since moved off the grounds.

Here it is - the Eilean Iarman resort - where I met a grand Scotish gentleman at breakfast - who was in charge of all the game preserves - and he told me they actually have too many deer which are causing problems. He knew Sir Robert? - who owned the resort - and he had been fortunate enough to share in some of the owner's grand wine collection.

They had a lively pub on Sat night - with band - perhaps the only one on that end of the Island - and the locals invited me - the lone Yank - to a proper "Kaling" - birthday party - next door in the reception hall - where I watched some young Scottish lasses doing traditional dances (another band was playing), and everybody brought a pot luck dish (except moi - but I already had dinner, and they were super friendly. All in all - it was a great time - and great food (the visiting/replacement chef was from Paris while the regular chef was on Holiday) - great staff and locals company and good cheer. They even had a Gaelic institute on the grounds.

Actually - I found all the Scots to be quite friendly.

http://www.eilean-iarmain.co.uk/

That wasn't Prince Edward . . .

You went to a Ceilidh, which is pronounced sort of KAY-lee

peterad, I see you even have some Gaelic. Well done.

If you are asking directions in London this year, be sure to ask for Stratford upon Avon.
I think that there's going some sort of sporting thing going on in Stratford