My daughter is off to France for a semester in less than a month (her studies are for about 4 months). She applied to the French embassy for a student visa for 6 months, providing proof of the date she flies into Paris and out of Turkey (we live in Australia).
The French embassy in Sydney issued her visa. The date of entry is the date she flies into Paris. However, the end date of her visa is 2 weeks after her course ends, but 6 weeks short of the date she flies back to Australia.
The French embassy website states that for Visa errors (including incorrect dates): (a) do not call the embassy as visa issues are not discussed on the phone; (b) you cannot come to the embassy without an appointment, and these are not given for student visas; and (c) all dealings with the embassy needs to be done by email, and you must only email them ONCE only (more than one email will mean your question is not replied to). The problem is that the embassy does not respond to emails – 3 weeks and no response.
The rest of the family have booked (and paid for) flights to join her in France for 2 weeks (hopefully Brittany and Loire Valley) and then Turkey for 2 weeks. We are due to arrive in Paris 2 weeks after her student visa expires. (We did know at time of booking that this was going to be an issue.)
So we seem to have few options. The obvious solution is to abandon plans for travel in France and either go to UK or travel in somewhere like Croatia, and then on to Turkey. In other words, limit our travel outside the Schengen zone.
Now someone has suggested that she can in fact remain in (return to from say London?) the Schengen area for a further 90 days as a tourist (ie. without a visa). I have tried to look into this on the web, and whilst I am finding conflicting answers, things are really hazy. (All these problems could be avoided if the French embassy would just respond to our email).
My questions are:
(1) Is this possible, and if so, where do I get something concrete (proof) in case we run into an immigration official who may not have the same view.
(2) If it is possible, do the 90 days include ALL Schengen counties, or would France be specifically excluded (I have seen some things on the web that suggest this may be the case).
If anybody else has had a similar experience, or knows the Schengen rules, your input would be most appreciated.
Schengen Visa Question - Student Visa / Visitor Visa
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You can stay in the Schengen zone (includes all countries, not limited to France) for a total of 90 days out a rolling 180 without a visa if you are from certain countries (Austalia should be one). The clock does not start again if you leave and come back (i.e. going to London for a weekend would not get her an additional 90 days).
How this is impacted by a student visa I am not sure. Why not contact someone at the school and see if they know or can provide you with someone to contact.
My friend is South African and has to apply for visas to the Schengen all the time and just because you ask for a time period doesnt mean they will grant you the full period you ask for unfortunately.
I would try calling the embassy/consulate. My niece had problems getting her French student visa and did call the embassy (in NYC) several times and they were helpful to her on the phone and she did finally get the visa in time. One thing she learned is that each French embassy in the US has different rules about appointments and calling. I would try a phone call as you have nothing to lose.
Is Sydney too far away for you to go to the embassy in person and perhaps get to speak with someone?
The important thing is not to let the extra weeks roll on after the student visa has expired, but to leave France (and Schengen) for somewhere like UK so that she gets an exit stamp from Schengen - a rectangular stamp with a picture of a plane (or a train, a car or a ferry depending on mode of transport) and an arrow pointing out of a box, as in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passport_stamp), and then return to France after a few days (can be a day trip). Make sure she gets her stamps (she will get a Schengen entry stamp) as sometimes border officials when busy simply waive people through. Then, as stated, she will get further 90 days in Schengen (including France) as a tourist - so no further study or part-time work (if her student visa allowed it) is permitted. Then you can join her and return home together.
It's very important to leave Schengen first, as her expired student visa doesn't roll on automatically into a tourist stay (as some people think and post on internet - she would become an illegal overstayer).
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Thanks everyone. I will keep trying to make contact with the French Embassy. I will let you know if we manage to make progress. My research on the internet shows that this is quite a common question, and 50% of respondents say tourist "visa" (90 day rule) afterwards is possible and 50% say it is not possible. I have yet to find someone who has reported back with an official response, or someone who has reported back after the event.
Alec characteristically gives the most authoritative answers anywhere to questions like this.
I've never known him get it wrong. But you'd do everyone a service if you could feed your experience back here.
You're very unlikely to get an answer from the French Embassy (what part of "more than one email is ignored" did you not understand? One of the few things you can depend on with les grenouilles is that if they say they're going to be unhelpful, they mean it, and diplomats aren't there these days to sort out foreigners' holiday plans - though Oz and Kiwi ones do sometimes break that fundamental principle of their global trade union), and Alec's answer is very likely to be the closest you'll get to definitive.
I speak from experience of assisting people with immigration problems going back decades (voluntarily, not professionally).
I am thoroughly familiar with Schengen rules.
Your question is very common, and I have correctly advised people numerous times without any mishaps. If you don't get helpful response from embassy (I doubt you do, as flanneruk reminds us), alternative is to consult an immigration advisor familiar with Schengen rules, but this will probably cost you (though sometimes they give first phone/email/face-to-face consultation free).
Alec, I really appreciate your positive input. What you say makes perfect sense to me, and is what logic tells me is correct. Perhaps you can tell me this. If my daughter were to arrive back in France (say from England) and an immigration officer took a different view, does she have any avenues open to her at that point. My biggest concern is that we pay for accommodation (getting towards peak season so we cannot just hope for the best, and suddenly find we are having to make new plans on the run. Or, am I just being over-cautious and the risk as practically non-existent.
Thank you all for your assistance. Alec was accurate with his advice (thanks very much Alec). I thought I would share the my official findings with everyone.
Firstly, we seriously considered changing our holiday plans and visiting Switzerland instead. I contacted the Swiss embassy In Sydney by email (their websites states that they will only give visa advice by email). They replied within 24 hours and were very helpful. Their response was as follows: “…. it depends what kind of visa your daughter will receive from the French Embassy (we did advise that it was a visa D). If she receives a residence permit in France while she is studying there and she can prove that she has been living in France for a certain period, your daughter is permitted to stay in Switzerland as a tourist for a further 90 days without authorization.
Despite so many people advising that we would not have access to the French embassy without an appointment, my husband headed off one day to give it a go. With a sympathetic doorman, and a visa consular official just happening to pass at the same time, he was allowed to enter and was helped by a very nice lady in the visa section. She looked at our daughter’s visa (category D visa requiring her to get a residence permit upon arrival). She said that so long as our daughter left France and went to the UK for at least a day on or before the expiry of her visa, she could re-enter France again on a 90 day tourist visa. There was no issue with this and it commonly occurred. She suggested that it would be a good idea to have French immigration stamp her passport when she left France at the end of her stay (although not strictly necessary, ) but what was important was a stamp in the passport showing that she had been in the UK at least a day (i.e. she should ask the UK passport control to stamp your passport on arrival and again stamp the same page on exit as proof of being outside France which is their usual practice).