Scam de Jour

The good old traditional scams, what would the world be without them

I'm a bit disturbed by your racist comment.
I'm sure that some gypsies are pickpockets, but it is an "equal opportunities" profession.

We shouldn't forget that Hitler had such a poor opinion of gypsies that an official figure of 600,000 died in the Holocaust.
Roma groups claim that it was actually over a million.

Hi T,

Thanks for the reminder.

>...I had been warned by the people in my French class about the gypsies.

I don't wish to be unpleasant, but as MP notes, not all Gypsies are thieves.

>'m a bit disturbed by your racist comment.
I'm sure that some gypsies are pickpockets, but it is an "equal opportunities" profession.

We shouldn't forget that Hitler had such a poor opinion of gypsies that an official figure of 600,000 died in the Holocaust.
Roma groups claim that it was actually over a million.<

Wake up and smell the coffee. I think this one is the worst case of "political correctness" ive read this year.

Sometimes its allowed to call a spoon a spoon.

If you aime for the nobelprize, you have to do better.

Gee, L

Are you claiming that all Gypsies are thieves, that all thieves are Gypsies, or have you just gotten up on the wrong side this morning?

I'll stay away from the PC part of this.

I hate to rain on your parade, but it seems to me that you spent way too much time interacting with this guy.

You're walking along the Seine, and a young man you don't know manages to grab your hand and slip a ring on your finger, hug you, and then the conversation continues.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect you are not from a big city.

Might be the wrong leg today

But still: it is a common fact that SOME Gypsies pull these trics. Its like then a blond girl visits turkey. Some men will make a big fuss about it. It is just a fact.

And of course are not all Gypsies thieves. Everybody knows that, that is just my point. We don't need to disguss the obvious

BTW, what "race" is a gypsy? Coming from the midwest, I understood the term to mean an itinerant person with no specific skill set, but would do odd jobs for money, sometimes including pulling scams. There is an actual race classification?

>BTW, what "race" is a gypsy?
"Immigrants" from India, arriving in Europe at about the 14th century. The others gave them that name.

If we're going to get politically correct about things, the term for the ethnic group originating from India and persecuted by Hitler is 'Romani' or 'Roma'. Apparently they don't refer to themselves as 'gypsies' so ironically, the continuing defense of 'gypsies' as being an ethnic group could end up being counterproductive, by associating the word 'gypsy' with an ethnic group when to do so is inaccurate.

Besides, people will use words for their own purposes - just look what happened to 'aspirin' when Bayer wasn't looking. Or 'decimate' - now used interchangeably with 'devastate' --- or 'issue' --- now frequently used as if it were synonymous with 'problem.' Point being, it is perfectly possible to use 'gypsy' to mean 'thief' or 'irreputable' without being a racist, since people don't examine the history of word origin and usage before using just about any word, not just this one.

Well, if it's PC to object to using the word "gypsy" as a term for pickpocket, then fair enough.

May I draw your attention to http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3527024.stm

"The pick pocket had NO luck with me because I had been warned by the people in my French class about the gypsies"

Reread the sentance but replace the word "Gypsies" with "Blacks" or "Jews". If you then find the sentiments offensive then maybe you would feel differently about calling this stance "politically correct".

Gypsies has traditionally meant the Romany people - still a discriminated against minority in parts of Eastern Europe.

I don't deny that there are large numbers of people in parts of Spain and Italy who appear to be responsible for a disproportional amount of reported pickpocketing, but part of that might be that they are more easily identifiable.

We were lucky to have been warned about the ring scam (by lovely Fodorites) before we went to France last spring because it was tried on us too. A quite average looking, nicely groomed middle-aged woman stopped and picked up a gold ring in front of us and turned to ask us "is this yours?". I could already feel SO hesitating -- not that he would have taken the ring, but ever the good samaritan, he probably thought he could help her find the owner -- and I pulled him along and explained the scam to him.

I would not, by the way, have picked this woman out as being of any particular ethnic group. She looked the same as any of the other office workers milling around us that time of day.

In English, the word "Gypsy" is actually short for "Egyptian". If you think that unlikely, within the past fifteen years I have heard the word "Egyptian" used in a context where most British people would say "Gypsy". "Gypsy" usually has a negative connotation over here.

The word "traveller" can mean many things in Britain, and is often used to describe groups who are not ethnic gypsies but who similarly travel from place to place and have done so for generations. Many are of Irish origin. However, I was surprised by a recent report about a group of "travellers" who were being moved off their camp site so that the 2012 Olympics could take place. They had apparently been there for over 30 years.

Another derogatory word in Britain is "Pikey".

texafornian- with all due respect, take a self defense class. You shouldn't have engaged in an exchange with this guy or let him get that close.

This is a venerable scam, well over a hundred years old.

This is from Dickens' "Our Mutual Friend"

('Now,' thought Mr Boffin, 'if he proposes a game at skittles, or meets a country gentleman just come into property, or produces any article of jewellery he has found, I'll knock him down!' With this discreet reflection, and carrying his stick in his arms much as Punch carries his, Mr Boffin turned into Clifford's Inn aforesaid.)"

We encountered this same scam 4 times in the course of one hour.
The 1st time we were looking in a shop window in the St.Germain area near the Seine and a man shoved a ring in my husbands hand, telling him he found it and it didn't fit him. My husband tried to hand it back to him but he wouldn't take it. The man started to walk away, then turned around and asked for money. My husband gave him the ring back and we walked away. The man kept following us. I'm a fairly meek looking person, but I turned around, looked him straight in the eye and very forcefully told him to stop and he backed away. Then we crossed the river and a woman coming toward us bent down and pretended to pick something up and held out a ring to us and said it was good luck. We briskly walked past her. Near the Tuileries another man started to approach us and I just put out my hand and said "No" very forcefully. Then about 10 minutes later we saw the same man with a tourist couple who were examining the ring. We always keep our money and credit cards in pouches around our necks and I think that, or a money belt, and just keeping walking, is the best defense against this sort of thing. And I was not shy in telling him to shove off.
It really struck us because we'd been in Paris the previous year and had not come across this at all and then to have it happen several times in one hour was incredible.

Just for the record, texafornian, you would have encountered this scam in any other big city in Europe. Thousands of those gold rings are found every day.

This scam seems to be so prevalent now, I wonder if anyone ever gives cash for the ring and thinks they have made a good deal?

I think allowing a strange man to hug you on the edge of the Seine was not a good idea. Or even touching him to give him cheese!! I think you took a big chance letting him get that close to you, in a way you were lucky that is all that happened.

The gold ring scam has become extremely common in Paris over the past few months; I see it almost every day when I'm with visitors.

The correct response is to ignore the person with the ring. I'm afraid the original poster here did almost everything wrong (except from the point of view of the scam artist).

And, I'm sorry to say, Gypsies have a culture built around shafting the rest of humanity. It's not politically correct to admit it, but it's a fact. That's why so many societies try to kick them out. The Gypsies have all sorts of justifications for their activities, but none of them bear close examination. Most of the scam artists of the type described in this thread are Gypsies. Refusing to talk about something doesn't make it go away.

Or here is another look at "gypsies" without a distinct ethnic background.
www.smithsonianeducation.org/migrations/gyp/gypstart.html

If it is "politically correct" or not to say it, gypsies are unmerciful in their thieving. I have had several near misses. The worst scare was an attack in Milan on my wife and small daughter.

For your own sake learn to recognize these people and stay 10 feet away. Just scream and point at them if they come after you. Another defense is to travel with another person. It seems that they usually pick on the solo.

chartley, wherever did you come up with that bit about Egyptians? And while there are (fewer now, but still some) indeed gypsies in Ireland, they are not of Irish descent but rather of the same Roma tribe.

Everyone knows that ALL Gypsies are thieves.
Sending them to concentration camp was a bit harsh though..

Why oh why would you let a stranger take your hand, slip a ring on your finger, and hug you? Why let him even get close enough to do that? Why talk to him in the first place?

They should have warned you, in your French class, not about non-existent "gypsies", but about this very common scam. And about the hazards of letting anyone hand you something (i.e., a rose) or put something on you (a "friendship bracelet").

Just say Non! And walk away.

texafornian, Thanks for your post. Just maybe, someone reading it didn't know about the ring scam and your post can help them.

All these postings recently about scams really interest me. It starts to sound like getting scammed/pickpocketed, etc is a regular part of traveling to Europe. I have traveled to Europe many many times and have never had an experience like this. Neither have any of my friends or family. So I guess my question is, are some people just unlucky or do these scammers just have a particular profile that they look for?

I wouldn't say I am hypervigilant (or even vigilant) about watching out for these scams nor do I use any special travel gear - I don't wear a money belt or the like, just my regular bag that I use at home. I don't think I'm usually mistaken for a local either. Having said that, I can't imagine allowing a stranger to put a piece of jewelry on me (at least not under the circumstances described in the original post ) and forget about a stranger giving me a hug.

I'm guessing that maybe a dozen people have posted here in the past 6 months about being scammed. If we assume that anyone who is going to post at all, would tell us if they were scammed, this seems like a very low number of all the hundreds -- perhaps thousands -- of European visitors who pass through this website in 6 months.

Although I've read about this scam about a dozen time here on Fodors, I've never, ever been the victim of it (probably because when I'm walking in Paris I don't look like a tourist, I'm trekking along at a locomotive pace, and have a don't mess with me look on my face), but it seems it happens all the time.

How on earth did you actually let it get far enough that you were hugging some stranger on the banks of the Seine? Good God!

I'm not even interested in getting into the "gypsie" controversy...

We encountered the 'young woman with a piece of cardboard and a slightly darker complection' scam in the Latin quarter of Paris a few years ago.
Due to prior warnings on this website, we new to laugh and walk away.
Please continue to post your experiences.

St. Cirq,

I live in Paris, too, and I've had this tried on me several times. Even on really residential streets in the 16th where no tourists wander. I've taken to just laughing at them as I keep on walking.

I have to say I usually don't get bothered much because, like St Cirq, I have a "don't mess with me" walk and I think being a native NYer I tend to exude this air of "I know where I'm going, so go away". However, with that being said, all of this jogged my memory of my last trip to Paris with Mom in September '06 and I do recall now of a man approaching us on the Champs Elysees with a gold ring he had just picked up off the ground. I remember saying "Non" and shaking my head in disbelief as I ushered Mom away. I mean who in their right mind would engage with a stranger about a ring that was not theirs? Obviously, I thought so little of it that it took your posts to jog my memory.

My point is this....keep posting these warnings when they happen to you. People can be so naive and I think these posts do more good than harm.

Hi S,

>the term for the ethnic group ....associating the word

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsy

A lot of people, perhaps the majority, if they saw something valuable lying on the street with other people coming from the other direction, would probably step on the item and stand there with their foot on top of it until nobody was around. The thought of picking the item up in front of complete strangers and saying "look what I just found!" is positively ludicrous.

I guess, I'm not in the majority, but I have seen items on the ground and picked them up and asked if anyone near had dropped it.

I'm not one to talk to strangers like that. I just keep walking. And to let a stranger get close enough to "hug" me...well...NOT! I've been going to Paris almost annually since the mid 70s and have seen/heard about all types of scams, but have not fallen for any of them. I guess it takes some street smarts. Happy Travels!

If it's any help, the ring always seems to be the same: a rather wide, plain ring with a slightly rounded surface and a manifestly cheap look about it (how anyone could mistake it for precious metal, I don't know—it looks about as precious as the cheaply-plated stuff you see in most belt buckles).

>I'm not in the majority
Well, you are with the majority here. I sounds quite strange to me that there would be people that actually are willing to keep precious things they find, which others have lost somewhere. Although, I confess, I might be to lazy to pick them up and bring them to the lost and found.

For some reason, I'd be tempted to follow this guy around, and every time he pulled the trick I'd go up to the people he was scamming and tell them something like "hey, how come you found another ring. Are you going to ask them for money also?". Call me perverse...

Judging by the number of reports of this scam, someone must be falling for it if they continue to do it.

Michel Paris- I have more fun things to do in France than follow a scammer around. I am a slow traveler but that sounds like a bored traveler.

Just back from Paris, and we were also approached (twice) by the "ring people."
I hadn't heard of this scam, and the first time when a man picked up the ring and handed it to my husband, we didn't have any idea of what was happening. The ring looked cheap, nothing like fine jewelry. The man walked away, but of course returned within a minute or two to ask for money ... we handed the ring back and told him we weren't interested. Second time it happened was a day or so later, and it was a women who "found" the ring. By then we knew what was up and waved her away before she even engaged us.

My question is: Is this scam merely to try to get some hapless tourist to pay for the ring? Or is it for an opportunity to get close enough to distract someone in order to pick their pocket?

Just wondering, because I can't imagine anyone wanting to pay another peron for that ugly brass ring, but the man who accosted us never even tried to get close enough to touch us.

Of course, my husband is a fairly large and imposing loooking guy, so maybe we didn't seem like good marks?

>Is this scam merely to try to get some hapless tourist to pay for the ring? Or is it for an opportunity to get close enough to distract someone in order to pick their pocket?

Either/or or both.

We just returned from Paris and saw this scam five or six times. We kept walking, pretending not to hear.

The last day I spotted two nefarious looking men coming toward us ten yards away. When they got very close one of them "picked up" a ring. I said, "Pfftttt!" without thinking and continued to walk on. From behind us we heard a loud, "Pffttt!" It made us laugh.

Good thing they ran into you & not me...or we'd have been seeing if he could swim (in the Seine).

We spend four to six weeks in Paris each spring and have seen or have been subjected to almost every kind of scam. Although I have found people with their hands in my pockets, been cornered and shoved in the Metro and approached by many "ring bearers", the worst situation is when the Metro is on strike. In the crowds the young Gypsy girls surround tourists and almost fight for purses. If it was not so bad it would almost be comical. Be alert, know who is behind you, forget being PC and profile people. This way you can enjoy Paris.

I think my husband may be partly responsible for the proliferation of the "ring scam." Last year he saw a woman (said she was Bosnian, by the way) pick up a ring and he gave her a thumbs up and a smile. Of course she was all over him like a fly on pie, saying she didn't need it and calling him "Papa." Being the kindly, albeit naieve, gentleman he is, he wound up giving her 50 Euros (!)"for her babies" despite my protestations. This September it was tried on us no less that four times. His photo is probably displayed in the thieves gallery.

It would be dangerous to harass a scammer. You don't know how far a crook is willing to go. I've seen people near Grand Central Station (NYC) wait for airport shuttles to arrive, negotiate an upfront taxi fee, hail a cab, open the door and lean in (as though speaking to the driver), step back and let the people get in and then hustle away before they realize the taxi driver has not been paid for the ride.

Point them out to a cop and keep moving.

I've gotten close to strangers near the Seine. I mean, I don't travel to talk to myself all day. A man approached me hauling a suitcase and a map. He appeared to be African but spoke great English and never once addressed me in French. He asked how to get to his hotel and showed me the address; I cracked out a map and gave him some alternate ideas (suggesting a taxi). We were head to head but not super close and all my stuff is still here.

Money belts and all that are too much trouble for me. I don't worry much about having my pocket picked at home in NYC, so I don't worry about it abroad. (Though I've never been to Rome.)

Well, I live in a much smaller place
than NYC but I DO worry about having
my pocket picked when I'm travelling
so I take precautions.

Why? If it were to happen at home it would be a hassle but I could go home and eat. I could go to my bank and cancel my cards and take out cash because they know me. I could walk across the street from my bank and get a replacement for my driver's license... but if I lost all my money, cards and ID in Paris or Rome I'd be screwed and my holiday possibly over. And if my passport and airtickets were gone...
an even BIGGER problem.

So hassle or not, I use a money belt
(actually more of a shoulder holster
thing) and exercise caution.

Rob

We (my wife and I) had a good laugh after reading your posting about the ring scam. We had pretty much the same experience in Paris this past September. I ended up throwing the ring against a building wall to get the guy to quit following us, he finally picked it up and went on his way. Next time we incounter this scam I vow to throw the ring under a bus... at least he will have to buy a new ring to stay in business...or do you suppose they stole the ring too? Paris is still my favorite city in the whole world.
Even during this scam, I never felt threatened..just mildly amused. You can't cheat an honest person.

Not sure if it is a scam, or just someone trying to "beg" for money, but while in Amsterdam this past September, I was standing at a tram stop near Dam Square. I pulled out a map. (Before anyone berates me for pulling out a map and looking like a lost tourist, I don't make a habit of it, and was just double checking what I had already looked at in my hotel room. Sometimes, that's the better alternative to REALLY being a lost tourist)

Anyway, this guy walked up and started pointing on my map where we were, asking where I was going, etc etc. I informed him that I was doing fine and didn't require any assistance. He then told me that he was helping lost tourists and asked for some "spare change." I politely informed him that just because I was looking at a map didn't mean I was lost and he had told me nothing I didn't already know and I did not have any "spare change." He didn't look very pleased, but he walked away. End of incident. I didn't encounter any other "scammish" type activity during my week in Amsterdam.

Well, two years ago in Georgia (USA), a guy approched me asking "Spare a dime for a brother".
My answer was "I think I'm many things to many people, but I don't think I'm your brother". . Smiled (he smile too), I gave him a $ and walked away. It's not a scam, it's someone begging for money. The $ didn't hurt me and maybe it even helped a little bit... There's a huge difference between (non-commercial) beggars and scammers!

Interesting we have a guy pulling a scam and we have the fact that he was a Roma. How do we know he was a Roma??

Anyway glad to hear that no one got hurt. And let us face it some of the best times I've had on holiday have just been with a sudden meeting, a sudden exchange of niceness. Holidays can be about seeing new things.

My husband gives money to beggars on the street at home too. I prefer to give money to the local food bank. Different methods.

Actually we were quite amused, I wound up giving the young girl 3 Euro, she evidently didn't think this was enough and asked me for more money. I told her that I thought her "story" was worth....amusing....but that was all she was going to get, give me the 3 Euro back and you can have the ring back...no ...she walked away....
I've gotten more than my 3 Euro worth telling the story.
In reality I give money to s"treet people" often...no need for a l"arge organization to take their share...direct to the end user"

Hi Everyone. I just watched a French film tonight Les Amants de Pont Neuf (The Lovers on the Bridge 1991) with Juliette Binoche and Denis Lavant, directed by Leos Carax. It is about two homeless people who live on a bridge and fall in love, and there is lots of scenes of them ripping off tourists. Putting some sort of drug in their drinks and robbing them. I just thought it was interesting to see things from the perspective of those living on the streets. Interesting film, good acting, good scenes (Ahh, Paris!), but not the best story.

daka, particularly in Europe, there often is a "large organization" behind these beggars, one that you would never donate to willingly, I'm sure.

As I learned recently to my dismay, even a longtime Parisian can be pickpocketed. It happened in the RER station at CDG Terminal 1 when I was returning from a trip. I generally don't open my purse before going through Paris metro turnstiles because I have a Navigo pass that works automatically, but because the airports require additional fare, I had to get a ticket out of my wallet, while juggling my suitcase and carry-on bag. There was a man standing near the turnstiles, and I briefly thought this was a bit odd, but then noticed that several turnstiles were out of order, so I figured he was just confused and trying to find one that worked -- in fact I motioned to him to point out one of the working turnstiles. Well, you guessed it, moments later I discovered that my wallet was missing from my purse! I feel pretty sure he was the culprit, though I never saw or felt a thing. Oh well ... that's the first time this has happened to me in 8 years in Paris! Still a huge pain, though.

We were near the Picasso Museum yesterday-Nov 15th when a young dark woman approached my sister and did the 'ring scam" on her. My other sister and myself said come on! but she still gave her money. After we got back to our apt and I showed her the Fodor site on scams she felt silly.
However later we were ourside the Musee Orsay and an elderly woman bent over and begging and we gave her a little money just cause it was so cold and she was working hard begging. (later in the night we figured she probably will be upright and tapdancing.)

No doubt. A tiny old lady, swathed in layers of many colored scarves beat the living crap out of my suitcase when I refused to step out of her way in CDG. The area was nearly empty and I was standing against a structure. There was no conceivable reason for her to steer her cart right up to me and ask me to move instead of going right around me. When she started shouting and ramming my upright with her cart I was totally startled. It became a scramble of trying to pull my bag out of the way and spinning around to make sure there was no "partner" emptying my open purse.

The day I arrived in NYC in 1997 an old lady roughed me up on Mott Street. Little old ladies are really strong.

Belledame wrote: "It became a scramble of trying to pull my bag out of the way and spinning around to make sure there was no "partner" emptying my open purse."

That's clear-headed! You deserve never to be pickpocketed.

Okay, I concede that nobody deserves to be pickpocketed, but some people deserve it less than others.

One year, alone in Avignon, while strolling the Place de L'Horloge, I came upon what liked like an organ grinder with a tiny dog sitting on top of it wearing a denim jacket.
I stopped and snapped a photo of it when suddenly this young gypsy girl came running from out of nowhere, saying: aha, you took photo now you must pay me. I was startled and not liking her attitude and left several centimes on the cart which she threw back at me. Later I was to see photos of her and the dog in a few travel books. I wondered how much she demanded they pay her.

I have written this before but we watched a little old lady (and her cohorts who were younger) work the railroad station in Florence.

The well dressed women and men would pickpocket and then discreetly hand the money to the little old lady pushing a cart. She was the mobile banker.

The legit venders (such as snacks and magazines) knew full well what they were doing. Even the police were not fazed when they saw the team working.

We sat there waiting for over an hour for our next train and could pinpoint the whole scheme. There was no one to tell about it because they all seemed to know already.

1. I LOVE it when they try the ring scam. The ring always looks so cheesy -- more like a curtain ring than anything precious.

2. I'll happily give money to panhandlers, never to the scammers and hucksters, eg: "I'm just 5 euros short on the train fare."

3. All-time favourite scam, from my distant youth: Outside Naples, a car drives up -- "Hey-a, I'm a Namericana citizena and I jus' been robbed. But I'll sell this genuina Rolex watch jus' for the cost ova gas to get to Thamericana navy base in Livorno...."

4. Driving out of Rome -- we are stopped at a stoplight, where a tragic-looking gypsy girl makes piteous gestures and leans beseechingly over our windscreen. I shake my head.

Without departing even momentarily from the Mater Dolorosa act, she mutters "Stronzo!" -- i.e. "Asshole!" -- and wanders off.

Those incidents are so amusing, tedgale. The curtain ring!! lol

tegdale, very funny! Especially #3, ROFL. Oops, are acronyms abbreviations still allowed here (sorry, Robes)?

Sorry, should be:

tegdale, very funny! Especially #3, ROFL. Oops, are acronyms abbreviations still allowed here? (Sorry, Robes)

Mark

I got approached with the same scam in the Tuileres on my way to the Louvre. Thank gooness I just kept walking. Lesson: never stop. I'd rather have them think I'm rude.

Happened to us not once, but twice on our walk along Seine from Louvre to Pont Neuf. Fortunately, we'd read about it beforehand and loudly waived them off. (This was Oct.18th)

P

tedgale,

Great post. I had number 2 pulled on me in Amsterdam Centraal Station. It was a great sob story and I paid. The next day the same guy came up with the same scam. I told him which train to catch, but there was no schedule to *ell.

Well at least they tried to put a romantic twist in their scamming; it was in Paris after all.

We were in Graben,Vienna last September and a youngish pretty woman came to us carrying a young toddler who looked very sad & listless. Both of them had such deeply moving and heart tugging expressions. She asked for money for her sick kid and lingered for a long while pleading. I almost felt guilty telling my friend that I bet she rented the little boy for the day as they didn't look related. Sure enough a few minutes later we saw the same toddler running around among a cheerful group of gypsies including the sad young woman.

I couldn't help thinking that they must see it as an art to act/fool people for money. I saw her the next day doing the same thing with an even younger toddler. What's amazing was how good the young toddler was in acting so sick & listless in an instant. He looked like he's just over a year old.

They were trying to use the same "trick" in Munich too, but child protection services intervened. They managed to stop the abuse. In the end, no mother wants her child to be taken away from her, just because someone did this stupid "begging scam" with the child. I wonder why it's different in Vienna? It would call CPS and tell them about it.

Yeah I was wondering about that too, perhaps because they are still new. I've never experienced it in my previous visits to Vienna.

Well, today my sister who was RING scammed 2 days ago at the Picasso Museum , was approached at the Seine by a swarthy man holding out the "gold " ring he found. She reached in her pocket and pulled out her own "gold " ring , told him she hadfound it -did it belong to him? He made a face, muttered something we couldnt understand and huffed off. We laughed our heads off.

We just returned from a 2 1/2 weeks trip to France and spent the last 5 days in Paris. I encountered this scam 3 times. The first was on the Champs Elysees when my friends had just walked a few steps away while I waited against a wall for them to return. They were not more than 20 feet away and was approached by a man with a gold ring. I could not understand what he was asking as he kept handing me the ring but as my friends approached and began to push him away, I got really scared and felt VERY stupid and vunerable that I had let me get that close to me. I realized while we were at the Eiffel Tower my friend walked just a few feet away to look for someone and I could feel and see several guys moving towards me. I was floored my friend had just stepped away and as soon as I yelled for him. They scattered. But the worst experience happened after we left the Opera district and were strolling beside the Louvre. We were approached by a woman with a gold ring who, after we told her to leave us alone, followed us yelling and screaming. When we turned around a short time later we noticed she had stopped a young couple who seemed as though they had been reeled in by the scam. We approached the couple and told them to get away from her and that they were being scammed. After they walked off she tried very hard to get them back but they thanked us and moved on. As we window shopped our way down the street she came back with a friend and tried the same thing not recognizing that she has already approached us. When it dawned on her who we were, she spit in the face of one of my friends and ran off. It was truly disgusting!! Although I regret her final act I have no regrets helping out the couple and ruining her attempt to extort money from them.

I had a similar experience in Paris. The gentleman said he had just found the gold wedding band he handed me and said he was hungry. I figured it was a scam, but I decided if it wasn't the real thing at least I would have done a good deed. So I gave him the equivalent of about 6 dollars and put the ring in my pocket. When I returned home, I took the ring to a jeweler who told me the ring was 18k gold and worth between $350 and $550. The next time I go to Paris, I'll look for this generous man and give him a lot more money.

And speaking of "gypsies," our family had a terrible experience 8 years ago when approached by one at the train station in Paris. She kept grabbing my sleeve to try to get me to give her money, and finally I pushed her
away. She then proceeded to put a "curse" on my year-old granddaughter. Fortunately I'm not superstitious, so this experience has remained with me as an interesting story and nothing else.

As I left my office near the Champs Elysées the other day to go on vacation, a young man found a ring on the sidewalk just behind me and asked "Did you lose this?"
"Do I look that stupid?" I replied.
He laughed and winked and went on his way.

I think it is people who become flustered who become scam magnets.

I am so happy I read this before I went because the same thing happened to us. I lived in NYC for three years, Wash DC for 6, and now live in Geneva, and in none of those places did I see the amount of scam artists - even in the most touristy areas. At the base of Eiffel, I watched family after family get approached by them (ill refrain from using the controversial word for them used earlier), ask each if they spoke english, and if the poor people replied yes they would shove a paper in their face no doubt with some pity story and follow the tourists around until them gave them money. And, as predicted, we were offered a "gold ring" along the Seine. I wonder how many a day get duped by these people. I had a wonderful time in Paris only bc I know to simply ignore these advances, but its a shame to think it probably ruins a lot of vacations. Can't believe, however, that so many posters allowed themselves to get so close to strangers.

I bought a gold ring from a woman trip before last for 1.40 euro. She was disappointed but took the money. I saw her again near the Chapelle Expiatoire that same trip.

THIS TRIP I saw her near rue Jacob. She showed me the ring, I pulled out my camera to make like I was taking a photo of it and got a photo of her holding the ring! AHA!! I'd kept the ring from last trip slung onto a strap on my purse and showed it to her saying I'd gotten it from her. She backed away and kept saying "non, non". I don't think she realized I captured a pic of her.

Saw another different lady in Montmartre at Place des Abbesses. I was touring with Michael Osman, he saw her out of the corner of his eye, grabbed the strap with the ring and showed it to her so she backed off. Tried to take a photo of her, too, but she moved away too fast and I only got the back of her as she melted into the crowd.

Met a guy in the line at CDG as we're leaving Paris. He met 5 different people running the scam in one day, all in the area around the Louvre. He was amazed at the number in one short day!

You can see the photos here:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/tp/1b3d8d/

I was in Paris with my mum in Sept 06 and didn't come across the ring trick. We did however, come across the guys at the bottom of the funicular to Sacre Couer who wanted to perform some string trick. I said 'no', avoided them and kept going on my way. Mum or I would not engage with such strangers anyway, but I think it freaked her out a bit.

I've heard of problems in Florence, Italy and a work colleague had his backpack taken in Spain recently, which I've heard is common for bag slashings. I haven't been to these places though.

In 06 I did notice a beggar in Scare Couer church doorway and one in Venice, but they weren't trying any tricks, just sitting down with a plate begging for money.

The best thing is to be assertive, say no and physically avoid them if you see them coming.

Call me po-faced, but if I dropped a piece of jewellery and somebody pocketed it and sold it to a tourist, I'd call the finder a thief and the buyer a recipient of stolen goods.

I was in Pigalle in May and saw a woman sitting on a sidewalk with both legs gone above the knee. Nothing was covering her stumps. It was as shocking as the time on Houston St. NYC when I saw a three-legged dog wretchedly limping along.

Amputee beggars like to show their stumps in the months of good weather.

Withered limbs are also a treat.

When we were in Florence last month, we saw a woman who was definitely 20-something, but good at faking being a crippled old woman (including babushka hiding her face). (I was not fooled.) We passed her one day near our hotel and the next day we saw her on the other side of the street. At that point, two police officers came by and were very assertive and loud in telling her to get up; I reckon' they knew her well, and she them, because she got up like a 20-something and quickly headed off down the street, no evidence of crippling in sight.

Eiffel Tower this past May. A rather feckless scammer 'finds' a gold ring and tries to draw my attention to it. Having read the Fodor's forums, I laugh him off and make a mental note of it for a trip report-to-come. Enjoy the Eiffel Tower and environs and walk back along the other side of the Seine. Guess who 'finds' another gold ring? Same guy and he has no idea why I start laughing. Truly Paris' most feckless scam artist.

Gypsies aren't theives. They did used to use the more Indian style of business of more buyer beware and bargaining. That got spun out of control into bigotry against gsypies as being theives and behind every scam.

These pickpockets were investiaged by one of the major news magazine programs (I don't remember which one, 60 minutes maybe) - and it was mostly sponsored by Russian mob groups. The children used were essentially forced labor.

Get a clue, be kind to the world, and think before you slander whole groups of people. In the past it's lead to violence by Europeans of unparalleled proportions.

Actually Europeans are extremely violent and prone to hypnotic suggestion by hateful leaders. This includes their descendents throughout the world.

Believe that and I'll tell you one about gypsies (Roma)...

That excuse that the word is now generic doesn't fly. It comes out of hate and slander and perpetuates biogtry. You can't tell if someone is Roma, certainly not now a days.

My Paris experience was a little different.

First my family were followed on and off the metro at 9pm. We got off at a random stop, and he did. We got back on the next train and he did. We finally pretended to get off and quick got back on as the train was leaving and shook the man. We're talking mid-40s parents, and two late-teen teenagers, and he never did more than attempt a casual chat.

Second I was masturbated on while sitting with my sister on the metro in a different incident.

Neither gave any appearance of being gypsies. Both were pasty white males.

Oh, and when we got back on the train the first time, it was back in the direction we'd come from - and he did too. Very weird.

Although "Gypsies" is not a single race of people. I think it's a far stretch to accuse someone of being Hitler like if they use the term. Would it be more PC to call the persons that try these kinds of scams... "LOW LIFE SCUMBAGS" Oh wait, didn't Hitler put to death 1000's of scumbags too? Never mind.

In the last two times we have been to Paris (2005&2007) We have not seen the "ring scam". We did have dark skined people at Sacre Coeur and the eiffel tower TRY to tie string around my wife's wrist. Twice we were asked if we speak English while they were handing us a a flash card with words on it? I don't know what those scams are about? I just told them NO! and they moved away.

In 2005 we arrived in Amsterdam about 11:00am from an over night flight. After checking into our hotel we took the tram to the dam area. We got off the tram about 3/4 of a mile from the central station because we saw a very busy open air market and smelled food cooking. After walking around the market we didn't find anything to eat so we headed back to the tram stop. My wife was looking at a tourist map when a very large dirty man came up to us and told us we would show us where to get the very best "weed" in Amsterdam. I told him we don't use the stuff and started to walk away. He stepped in front of us then this guy TOLD me to give him some money! I laugh at him and TOLD him he better step aside before something bad happens to him. He could tell I wasn't kidding. He smiled and said, You're Americans I love America. He had a very thick slovic accent. I said no we are Canadians! No, I can tell you're Americans? Again I said we're Canadians. He said if you're Canadians what is the capital of Canada and smiled. My wife and looked at each other like,"Oh crap"
My wife said Toronto! which was wrong. He told us it is Ottawa. We all laughed and he asked if we could please spare some change. Again I told him no but, I gave him four of my Camel wide light cigarettes. He said thank you and walked away. This all took no more then one minute. We still laugh about that encounter.

He said if you're Canadians what is the capital of Canada and smiled. My wife and looked at each other like,"Oh crap"


No comment is necessary

Sorry josser, I don't understand what you mean "No comment is necessary" This was our first visit to Europe and we were told that Europeans are kinder to Canadians than to Americans. I guess we should have done a little research on Canada. I only used the Canadians thing once.

As a CDN I think thats funny that you didnt know our capital

We're not Canadians.

jamikins

I wonder how many Canadians wouldn't know the capital of the United States.
I saw one of Pinchme's other posts and couldn't find a way to say politely what I thought of him.
His confession about not knowing the capital of Canada did the job for me

Funny, I just got back from my first time in Paris (only 2 days) and never got scammed. I live in NYC now so maybe I, too, have that "get away from me" look. I did see the guys with the bracelets on the steps of the Sacre Coeur... I even thought "what are you thinking!?" to a girl having a bracelet tied on. I shoved my hands in my pockets and when they wanted to know if I spoke English I looked like I had no clue what he said.

I did catch a small kid in my pack in Milan and as I was checking the contents I watched him walk away. (Since he was walking, I was pretty sure he had nothing.) But then I saw his hand reach up for a purse a block away and I yelled "attenzione!" and the woman spun around and smacked the poor kid.

Alternatively, even though I do live in NYC, I'm never in Port Authority. I couldn't find this ticket counter and a fairly dirty man walked me to the counter and I gladly gave him $3 for a slice. I actually expected it when he started talking... he got me to my bus on time!

As a music lover, I always throw money at decent musicians on the street and never to anyone who just shakes a cup at me.

I have told that story to many of my family, friends and co-workers. Only one person knew what the capital of Canada is.

"saw one of Pinchme's other posts and couldn't find a way to say politely what I thought of him"

What other posts? Have I offended you in some way? Is it my poor geography skills or writing style? I can't figure out for the life of me. Why you would make such a broad statement as that? Please explain.

I'm not surprised that many don't know the capital of Canada. Just the other night a supposedly very bright person on Jeopardy called Toronto a province!

But I'm mainly trying to figure out why people from the US would try to pass themselves off as Canadians. What am I missing here?

I read about people doing it on Fodor's and on Frommer's. It sounded like a good idea in theory. So many American newspapers and t.v shows were talking down Europe and their non-support of Bush's war in Iraq. Being our first time in Europe we didn't know what to expect. I only tried it one time and it didn't work.
In retrospect, it's funny to us now. But back then it wasn't.

If I am in Europe and someone is being rude or unfriendly, I tell them I am Canadian. They lighten up.

If they are being overly friendly or just won't shut up, I tell them I am American. They move on.

We Canadians are secretly very clever. And every Canadian knows the capital of the US is Washington, or New York.

Skimming through this thread again I was reminded of the story of two professors from a famous graduate business school, you know -- the place where they give out MBAs.

The two were walking up Michigan Avenue when one suddenly stopped. His partner said "Robert, what's the matter?" "Look there Charles. Is that a $20 bill on the sidewalk?" "It looks like one, but it can't be." "Why not?" asked Robert. Charles replied "If it was a $20 bill someone would have picked it by now." They walked on.

I saw some of josser's other posts and I CAN find a way to say politely what I think of HIM.

Most of his posts are combative,negative or noneducational to a traveler seeking advice or suggestions. The true (Hit and Run) TROLL in every sense of the word.

I was born and raised in Ottawa, Canada. I'm there now, in fact.

It's not the capital of anything. It's a banal, provincial bush-camp masquerading as a "world-class capital". (Ottawans LOVE those cliches)

Seriously, it's a dump.

No-one should be forced to learn its name. I'm trying to forget it.

Only been back 2 weeks from our month in Savannah GA ...and in 2 weeks we're heading to Paris, Rome and Tuscany for March.

YIPPEE!

Ted I assume you jest - Ottawa is a very nice city and one I enjoyed greatly. Are you by any chance thinking of Newark?

Hey, I've been driving through "downtown Newark" for hours, looking for the exit. It's not that bad at all, at least it's better than Flin Flon!

Thanks Reisender – I live in Ottawa. It’s a very nice city. Some people come to think that Rome, Paris etc are better fits for their cosmopolitan talents.

I'm wondering too about Ottawa being a "dump". We spent three or four days there a few years ago and enjoyed it very much. London or New York it isn't, but there's good as well as bad to that.

> Seriously, it's a dump.

Tedgale, you might want to add an "IMO" in that statement somewhere. I was just there last weekend, and it's not a dump.

IMO, that is.

Bloom

Just about everything written on Fodor's is somebody's opinion, including the positive comments from the posters above. They are welcome to their views and I am glad, even proud, that they enjoyed my city.

But it's still a place that has lost no opportunity to embrace mediocrity; that has destroyed, in my lifetime, half its architectural heritage; that has supported urban sprawl and big-box madness; that equates liveability with great stretches of unused wilderness "green-space" yet neglects the texture of downtown spaces and neighbourhoods; whose street and other basic infrastructure are crumbling; and that has been both over-taxed and under-governed.

And yes, that's all hearsay.

If you're wondering why I live here:

Until last October, I lived here for my job. With retirement, I have no such need. We stay here, too, because it is 1h13 from our country property, which is a paradise. But increasingly this will just be a poste restante address for us, I hope.

Tedgale- my husband was interviewed for a job in Ottawa last week. Can you share any positives about the city? I really don't like the idea of moving to 'a dump'.

Bloom

Bloom – I will give an example of something good about Ottawa. In last year’s Stanley Cup final (hockey), Ottawa was playing Anaheim. Before the first game held in Ottawa, at least half to three-quarters of the 19,000 fans sang the entire US anthem word for word, to the point you could hear the crowd more clearly than you could hear the singer over the public address system.

I have been in arenas all over the world and never heard a crowd sing the other country’s anthem like that. We are friendly, respectful people here.

Good to hear, Colduphere.

I know very little about Ottawa, but the two things I like most about it are the National Gallery, and the Sens.

Though I'm mainly a Leafs fan, I've always liked and respected the Sens (except for that stunt Alfredson pulled last season), and was proud of how close they came to winning the cup last year.

Bloom

Well, I like Ottawa - I visit for a few days every year and always find lots of interesting things to see and to do.

1. It has a lovely setting. The stretches along the Ottawa River are extremely attractive in the months, regrettably few, when I want to be outdoors.

2. It is -- or at least used to be -- very easy to get out of. Gatineau Hills in 25 minutes, for example.

But lately the Queensway (E-W expressway) has become nightmarish -- fully stopped traffic at 3:30 pm, for example.

3. Some very smart people live and work there.

That pretty well exhausts my list, I'm afraid.

Hmm. Okay, thanks Tedgale.

My screen name is derived from the expression "Bloom where you're planted." If we end up relocating to Ottawa, I'm determined to do that.

Bloom

I grew up in Canada and we had to learn everything about the U.S. geographically, so I feel pretty confident that I could challenge an American to a dual -- and I now live in the States, and hate being asked "what providence are you from?" gawd.

Anyway, Europeans, at this point, do have less trouble with Americans - - as a matter of fact, last year in Dubrovnik, several shops had signs in the windows - "no Americans" I went in and asked about it, and they said that it's been too recently they've had bombs rain down on them, and they don't appreciate us doing the same to innocents in Iraq. Wear a Canadian flag, and memorize "Ottawa"



oh, and vote the neocons out in November. That will up our stock value around the world in a hurry.

Bloom - we would love to have you. Maybe we could work a trade - we get you and central Ontario gets Ted.

Actually, I know Ted and he is a good person.

Nancy - a duel between Americans and Canadians re knowledge of each other. That would end quickly. How many Oklahomans know what a Nunavut is?

Colduphere, how do you know me? I'm unfamiliar with your screen name and don't believe we have met in person.

I even clicked on your name to see if we have contributed to the same threads. But your contributions are mostly to Lounge topics, eg.:

"What's the view from your house?" and
"Would you change anything about your wedding?"

...unless you count Europe posts such as "Netherlands hygiene"

None of these being QUITE my line of country, I'm wondering -- quite uncritically -- how we're acquainted. Esp. as I'm on Fodor's about 1/10th as much as I was 3-4-5 years ago.

SCENE:
Bank Street in downtown Ottawa
TODAY - Saturday afternoon, Feb 23, '08, 2:15 pm

I am walking home to the Glebe from my gym at the Clarica Centre on Bank Street. Bank Street north of the Queensway is a scene of mild, and occasionally profound, human misery.

I am passing a modest-looking middle-aged couple and overhear the woman say to her husband:

"Ottawa sure has changed. It used to be classy. Not anymore! Now it's...it's A DUMP!"

I burst out laughing.

"Don't EVER say that on Fodor's! You'll get stomped." I say to the surprised couple. We smile ruefully and continue on our ways.

In all seriousness, tedgale, I've never heard of Ottawa spoken of in such a derogatory way. My knowledge of the city is extremely limited, so unless the job's a no-go, I want to learn as much as I can about the city.

When I asked you why you thought it was a dump, it was with sincerity. I welcome all opinions/insight about Ottawa...including any negatives.

Bloom

ps- the scenario you recounted in your last post...that didn't really happen did it?

1. Yes, it absolutely did happen this afternoon. Word of honour.

2. OK, it's not like this was a toxic waste dump peopled by mutant sex-killers. When I say "dump", I don't mean it's unsafe here or that your health will suffer. Just that I find it -- as others evidently do not -- disappointing, smug, self-satisfied, banal and SO grim architecturally.

TG

Met at MSSD, both ran on canal, male, initials GB

OK now I'm intrigued. MSSD closed down 24 years ago!

Curiously enough, I ran in to my old MSSD boss Rick Van Loon, lately President of Carleton University, at the NAC last night.

I'll start working through my MSSD mental honour-roll for a name:
Gordon Smith
Bruce Rawson
Marilyn Watters
Barry Carin
Jean Pierre Kingsley
Scott Serson
Ron Doering
Jim Miller
Jim Martin
Richard Stursberg
Kathy O'Hara
Michael Sabia
Francine Bertrand
Merielle Bradford
Lynne Elliott-Sherwood
Laurette Goulet
Ray Protti
David Good
Ken Stein
Dann Michols
Brenda Lundman
Nate Laurie
Jane Heintzman
Cecil Rabinovitch
Paul Becker...(was that the name of that fat man who went to jail for fraud???)............

TG - I will call if you are in the book. I was over at your place with J Fil-- and R She--- but you are right. Long time ago. Maybe you have moved from the nice place in Sandy Hill. No use boring readers here anymore.

I'm not in the book but I am on facebook with a wide-open page that lists my email address, which I will give here too:
galeedward@gmail.com

Coldupher, Tedgale,

We're all intrigued . . . please let us know "the rest of the story." It's pretty cool when Fodorites know each other.

Inquiring minds want to know . . . I could probably think up a few more cliches if it would help.

Thanks,
Sandy (in Denton)

Sandy

Ted and I worked in the same Canadian government department for a few months in 1984. They closed the department and we scattered in different directions. But we both jogged along the Rideau Canal at lunch for years and would periodically give each other the joggers wave (joggers do that in a daze almost not knowing who they are waving at).

The coincidence is doubly remarkable:

I'm now retired, as I mentioned, and work out regularly -- well, obsessively -- at my gym, as mentioned above.

A couple of weeks ago, I was walking down the very street mentioned above, on my way home from the gym, when I recognized colduphere.

Hadn't seen him in years. I once was a marathoner but don't run much now (bad knee).

I did not speak, as I did not think he recognized or remembered me. And indeed he may not have recognized me -- time plays cruel tricks with one's appearance.

Next time I'll stop.

Col & Ted,

Thanks for filling us in . . . isn't life interesting? This is another reason to always do good, you never know who is watching and will remember you!

Sandy (in Denton)

A few weeks ago on the news (either CTV or CBC) I was rather dismayed to see a story aboot Ottawa having the reputation of being the rudest city in Canada.

Due to fine Ottawan Fodorites like Colduphere and tedgale, I know that has to be wrong.

That's pretty cool that you two know each other. Except that it's made me paranoid about having vented about people in here.

e.g. My Inconvenient Goof rant.

My landlord told me he used to teach computer courses. When he dropped by the other day (for the 385th time this week), he stood in front of my laptop for some time.

Guess what page I had open on my screen.



Bloom