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San Francisco retirees would like to move to Paris for a year- crazy idea?

San Francisco retirees would like to move to Paris for a year- crazy idea?

Old Apr 28th, 2017, 11:45 AM
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San Francisco retirees would like to move to Paris for a year- crazy idea?

My husband and I are in our early 60's and would like to retire and move to Paris for a year (or two) in early 2019. We have lived in San Francisco for 35 years and would like a change. We both love Europe, and Paris especially.
I have researched visa, health care, and means testing requirements from the French consulate and we should be ok with that criteria, but I have read conflicting reports of being able to find an apartment in Paris. I wonder if my expectations are realistic in that we could find an apartment in the Paris center. I have also heard that you must have a local address before you can get a bank account, but must have a bank account before you can get an apartment!
I would appreciate any insight that folks that have been through this may have.
Thank you.
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Old Apr 28th, 2017, 12:06 PM
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You'll have to bring lots of money. Maybe look into companies that do corporate housing for expats?
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Old Apr 28th, 2017, 12:19 PM
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The problem with apts is for short term, vacation, rentals. You shouldn't have that problem.
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Old Apr 28th, 2017, 12:40 PM
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You need an immobilier, not an outfit like VRBO or AirBnb that specializes in short-term rentals. An immobilier will be able to steer you around the bank account issues (probably for a price), lease issues, and all the other bureaucratic nightmares that await you. You might start with De Particulier à Particulier, which among lots of other things, publishes booklets (in French, of course) to explain all the details and vagaries of buying and renting in France. The less French you speak and write, the more you can expect to be taken advantage of if you're not careful.

An apartment in "the Paris center" is going to cost you an arm and a leg, but perhaps you're aware of that.
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Old Apr 28th, 2017, 12:44 PM
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You will be able to find an apartment. However, you must have both an EDF (electric company of France) account and a long stay visa to be able to obtain a checking account. Legally, you are entitled to have a checking account somewhere but many banks will not deal with Americans due to the US FATCA laws.

You can wire money to pay for an apartment before you have a bank account but you will probably need to pay several months rent in advance. Exactly how many months rent you will be required to pay in advance will depend upon the landlord.

Fodors forums are really more for those who are visiting France, not those wanting to move to France. I recommend you take a look at the Expat forum for France:

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/fra...living-france/

This forum has answers to all of your question concerning long stay visa, insurance, drivers license exchange, and many other topics pertinent to foreigners living in France.

You should also consult, on a regular basis, the information available from the Association of Americans Resident Overseas:

www.aaro.org

If you are really serious, you should become a member of AARO. The information they can provide is invaluable.
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Old Apr 28th, 2017, 01:01 PM
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It really depends what "conflicting" reports about finding an apt. are. If you are referring to the illegality of vacation rentals, that's one thing. if you are referring to that fact that there are not a lot of vacancies and they are very expensive, etc., that is true, and I'll bet anything you aren't looking for a 1 bedroom in the 19th arrondisement. Yes, it will be difficult. Also, I imagine some landlords may not want to deal with one-year leases for Americans, but some real estate is owned by Americans or British, of course.

Perhaps you might state what your expectations are for someone to assess how realistic that are. I'm also surprised you haven't mentioned how well you know French. If fluent or at least pretty good, that should certainly help with the legal papers, etc. Not that there aren't plenty of expats in Paris who don't speak French hardly at all.

If you've lived in San Francisco, though, at least you should be used to expensive rental fees, although I imagine you are not renting any more. They aren't quite that high in Paris, though, as in San Francisco.
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Old Apr 28th, 2017, 01:13 PM
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oforparis, Good luck with this endeavor. Please let us know of your progress.
We are thinking of doing this also. There is so much work involved, it gets scary and overwhelming.

Sarastro, thank you for the links, very helpful.
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Old Apr 28th, 2017, 01:34 PM
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Encouragement only. I have no advice that would apply in your situation. I came here 20 yeas ago speaking little French and with excellent help from my French realtor, bought my apartment. No one tried to swindle me out of anything. Horribly jet-lagged at the closing, I fell asleep and that seemed to affect the proceedings not one bit. Mortgages were not available for foreigners so I paid cash. I go back and forth to Florida every three months so I've never worried about the visa situation. A bank account was easy as was setting up other credit. Maybe things are different now.

Go for it!!!!!! The hardest part will be deciding upon an area in which to rent. I picked for purchase, an outer arrondissment because I wanted to "live French." I'm not the least bit sorry I did. Good luck with your decision!!!
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Old Apr 28th, 2017, 01:52 PM
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I have friends who are US citizen that are living in Paris for a year.

Here is her blog and info on how they did it and how you can do it:

https://theworldinbetween.com/category/how-to/
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Old Apr 28th, 2017, 01:55 PM
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I've been living in Paris for 8 years and sold my apartment last December. It took me one solid year to find a long-term rental - and I wasn't being too picky about it.

I used "seloger.com" to find an apartment and just got lucky.

No rental agency would even look at my dossier because I am a retired American who only pays "taxe d'habitation" - even though I had a lot of money in the bank from the sale of my apartment. They all prefer French residents who work and pay income tax.

You might possibly find a bank that will set up a "garantie bancaire" - a year's worth of rent set aside in case you can't pay your rent - but you can't count on it.

You might consider using a US based agency to help you with your search, but there will be a hefty fee involved.
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Old Apr 28th, 2017, 02:00 PM
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If you are looking to purchase an apartment, most banks and agencies will be happy to take your money - but I would not attempt to buy an apartment if you have no idea of the taxes, building charges, notaire's fees...
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Old Apr 28th, 2017, 03:08 PM
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What a wealth of information! Thank you so much, I gleaned more from this board than hours elsewhere.
My husband speaks a bit of French, but I am dismal after many attempts (most recently we were in a Paris restaurant and I ordered Duck Confit and the waiter brought me café, we both had a good laugh). We would take classes to bolster our French in the intervening year.
We plan to rent out our house in SF, but expect that not to cover the expense of renting in Paris. We have rented apartments in Paris on a short term basis before, so I when we started talking about moving I looked at Paris vacation rental sites again. I thought "that doesn't seem so bad". Then I looked at long term rentals and I was shocked - so there goes the 2 bedroom flat in the 6th!
I will check out the links you have so kindly provided, and go on from there.
Thank you all again for your thoughtful replies.
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Old Apr 28th, 2017, 08:38 PM
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We rented an apartment the first two years we lived in Paris. We didn´t have a lot of difficulty finding one but we did pay one years rent in advance.

The question that quickly arises is are you going to attempt to find one on your own or are you going to use a realtor? If you are not relatively fluent in French, or even if you are, using a realtor can greatly simplify things. Realtors will charge you at least the equivalent of two months rent. Another advantage is that the realtor will handle any problems that arise such as apartment maintenance and help manage your expectations.

The next question is will you look for a furnished or an unfurnished apartment? An unfurnished apartment usually means that even the kitchen walls are completely bare and you will be responsible for installing cabinets and fixtures. But there is always IKEA, and soon COSTCO, to help with provisioning your apartment at reasonable cost.

What should you expect to pay? A lot less than what one pays for an illegal short term rental. In Paris I should think that you could find a good 1 bedroom for between 1500€ and 2500€ per month plus utilities. You´ll also pay the annual taxe d´habitation but within Paris, it´s not typically more than a few thousand euros. Ironically, outside of Paris in the suburbs, it´s a lot more expensive. These areas do not typically have corporations and large businesses contributing to their tax bases.

Realistically, I would allow somewhere around 30,000€ for the first year in Paris which would include paying a realtor, rent, utilities, and provisioning a basic kitchen. These are very rough figures but should give one an idea.

While this is a travel forum and what we are discussing is not really pertinent to travel per se, many contributors are interested in this very topic. I should think that many who visit Paris would be curious to know what it would be like to move here.
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Old Apr 28th, 2017, 09:14 PM
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Furnished rentals would be the easiest to acquire, and much less expensive than having to outfit kitchens, bathrooms, closets to your tastes.

If you have already rented short-term furnished apartments, this is what I'd advise. Many owners require unfurnished apartments to be returned to "their original condition" which would cost you even more money.

You can Google the arrondissements you are interested in to see what the notaire's prices are per square metre. The centre of Paris is very expensive, but the arrondissements right next to them will be less expensive.

There are rent controls in effect for long-term furnished rentals, though some landlords will charge 20 to 30% more than the law allows.

Some people have good luck with sabbatical homes - you might find a one-year rental from their website, but be cautious that the owner/tenant is not renting out the apartment more than 120 days of the year, which is illegal.
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Old Apr 28th, 2017, 11:17 PM
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You might research a home exchange. I tried a job & home exchange many years ago that did not work out but it was worth pursuing. I was in LA and the woman in England did not know how far that was from the Bay Area where her boyfriend had taken a job until I explained it to her. I would think San Francisco would appeal to a lot of people.
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Old Apr 28th, 2017, 11:54 PM
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I forgot to mention that in every case, the real estate agencies required 3 to 4 months' rent as a deposit. This is not technically legal, but that's what they required.

No agency has the right to view your bank information, just your last pay slips, retirement benefits and French tax info, if any.
The taxe d'habitation depends on the arrondissement and the square metrage of the apartment. Normally, it's around 2,000 EU or so for a 1 bedroom apartment.

It isn't legal anymore for agencies to accept payment for one years' rent in advance. Though owners can require a "garantie bancaire".
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Old Apr 29th, 2017, 01:56 AM
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More rental information here

http://adrianleeds.com/french-property-insider
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Old Apr 29th, 2017, 02:22 AM
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Garantie bancaire is usually the 3 months rent you mention.
That money goes into a bankaccount that is blocked and can only be released by the owner usually after the tenant moves elsewhere and the état des lieux (check if the appartement) is ok
If some damage are found money is taken from the garantie.
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Old Apr 29th, 2017, 02:23 AM
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It is a good idea to learn some French. Not all your neighbours will speak English fluently.
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Old Apr 29th, 2017, 03:56 AM
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Wow. Amazed that renting out a house in SF does not cover the cost of renting an apartment in Paris.

Try getting in touch with this woman, located in SF

http://www.parisflat4u.com
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