Get a visa agent to do it for you...saves making any mistakes

Hi Patrick, I used Visas International. Not the cheapest way to go gut probably the easiest.

NP:

A US citizen doesn't need a visa for Ukraine. For Russia and Belarus, I used the above...very efficient and easy to deal with. In the SSR days of 70's and 80's I once found out I was on a "no entry list" after arriving, but I was well-prepared...and after an anxious grill/show/tell, the surly inquisitor actually "welcomed" me...

I found so many changes on my return visit in '08, it was quite overwhelming. Since Ukraine and Belarus pix are rare on this forum, here are some,...if Belarus bores you, just scroll down to the "Welcome to Kiev" sign. If I can be of any further help, please indicate...I have Russian pics going back to the 70's as well as the pix from Viking Volga trip Moscow to St. P. in '08. I'd be happy to share, since I did not write TR's.

Best wishes for a meaningful, educational and excting journey, Patrick! I know it will be for you.
Stu Tower

http://picasaweb.google.com/stuarttower/BelarusUkraineKiev2008#

p.s. give yourself plenty of lead time for the Russian visa...

You can't give yourself too much lead time, you can't even file until 60 days before your arrival.

I'm not sure about "days in between", are those when you're not sure where you'll be staying or you'll be out of Russia? Both of my hotels made invites for me, covering all my days in Russia.

I think you need reservations for each night you will be in the country. We just sent ours in and got them back quickly - and it was in July. No visa service ro anything.

I'm trying to figure out why it is easier to send all the information to an agency that you'd be sending to the consulate and pay them extra to get it for you. I'd still be the one filling out the forms, getting the "invitations" or paperwork from the hotels, etc. What am I missing here and why is it "easier" and worth the extra money to have someone else as a middleman? Surely if something is missing the consulate would let you know just as the agency would. No?

Meanwhile I liked the idea of taking my passport in person in New York if that's possible. I hope to make a trip or two into Canada this summer and would prefer not to have my passport missing for a few weeks.

Interesting that you can't apply until 60 days before arrival. I sure didn't see that anywhere on the consulate site or other information -- including the directions from an agency which matches the information on the consulate site, although I did read you MUST apply at least 3 weeks before going.

By days in between, I meant that I'm undecided yet about going for a few nights to stay in a town outside of Moscow. I have 8 nights between when I fly into Moscow from St. Petersburg and the time I fly from Moscow to Kiev. I was thinking of not staying in Moscow all that time, but a couple of nights in the Golden Ring or somewhere rather than just doing that as daytrips. I will be IN Russia for 14 nights total, then Ukraine for 4.

I used a visa agency in Florida. They were the ones who said not to even attempt to apply until 60 days out. They also sent question-by-question instructions, and were available to answer my questions. For example, one question was list all the countries you've ever visited, then they give you space for about two words' worth. I've been to 20+ countries, what to do? They don't want attached sheets, it turns out, just list the most recent that fit in the space. I would have attached pages and gotten it returned to me had I not asked. I'm all for saving money, but it was helpful to me to have people to ask questions of and then do the dirty work for me here. I agree that it is quick turn around when done right; I got mine back within 7 days of sending it to Florida.

Given that each hotel you stay in is required to register you with the police, I think you'd need an invitation from wherever you stay in the Golden Ring (or wherever in between).

Amy:
I would call 60 days a sizeable lead time. I started the process six weeks before scheduled to arrive and got it back with over two weeks to spare. As I said in my post, I have an "SSR history" and I was relieved to see no hangups this time.

stu

Hi again Patrick,

I should start with the disclaimer that it was 10 years ago when I visited Russia so it's possible things have changed since then.

At the time I was uncomfortable traveling around Russia on my own so I went with a group tour. I gave Visas Int'l the name and date of my tour and they took care of all the paperwork for me except a short form with some of my personal info. I sent in some passport photos and that short form and they did the rest. I did not send in my passport. I applied thru Visas Int'l about 4 months before my trip but they probably didn't finish the process until 60 days beforehand as required. A few weeks before my trip they sent me a loose leaf visa which I used upon entry to Russia. They also did my Belarussian visa and it was a similar process.

For me this seemed easier than doing it all myself.

I have known people who applied for Russian visas personally. However, using an agency makes it easier.
You can get a lot of information how to do it in the official website of the embassy - http://www.russianembassy.org/Embassy_eng/Consulate/tourist_visa.html
The earliest one could apply for a tourist visa used to be three months and the latest is three days (but then it costs more). You could just indicate one hotel for Moscow and one for St. Petersburg in your application and then go to the towns of the Golden Ring from Moscow or/and to Novgorod/Pskov from St. Petersburg if you like, as long as the duration of your total stay in Russia does not exceed the dates in your visa.

For me this seemed easier than doing it all myself.

I did the same, P_M....(for both Belarus and Russia)..would do it again. Patrick, again, I strongly advise.
stu

I would also budget quite a bit of time to actually fill out the app. It took me over an hour...it's not as simple as the US Passport application. Have your resume handy for last jobs and dates, places you've lived and dates. It was the single most involved application I've ever filled out about myself!

We visited both Saint Petersburg and Moscow a few years ago. Did not use an agency. No problems whatsoever doing it on our own.

With over 20 visits, using an agency everytime would be too expensive. I only used one when a) it was a multi-entry yearly business visas and hence a company was paying b) could not get time off work to lodge the application in person. Otherwise I do all the legwork myself, including getting the letters of invitation from the hotels I booked. However now in the UK, there is no choice but to go through a 3rd party. If this is not the case in the US, I would give it a personal application a go, unless you are not near a consulate.

Thank you swisshiker and Odin. I guess I just don't understand the difference. If I still have to fill out the applicaton/paperwork and get the invitations to forward to the agency, why not just send them to the consulate? Is it easier to fill out the address of the agency on an envelope than it is to fill out the address of the consulate? And if I forget something or make a mistake, I guess I don't get the difference between the agency sending them back to me to correct or the consulate sending them back to correct. But maybe I'm missing something -- like the agency magically knowing the details and where I'm staying so they fill out all the details and their contacting hotels without my telling them. How could that be?

All the guides seem to suggest that the Russian Visa system is very good and very quick --whether they are dealing with an individual or with an agency. And certainly not having to go to an agency first should actually speed the process up -- not slow it down.

I already downloaded the application, and frankly it's a whole lot simpler than the typical information I have to fill out every time I go to a doctor!

I did use an agency for my Asian Visas, but only because they were coordinating getting three different ones all on my passport.

Patrick, ultimately it's your decision, obviously. I think good cases have been stated above on both sides of the equation. When I do this again next year, I'd do it the same way. Personally, I felt better that I had someone working it on my behalf. I had read on TripAdvisor numerous stories around the time I applied last summer of people applying on their own and not hearing, having thought their application was lost in a black hole, or they were getting conflicting stories depending on which consulate they went through (at one point there was a rumor of a "quota" being filled and no more visas being processed for a month). I was pleasantly surprised, when, as I said, the agency turned it around in a week, when people were lamenting 3 or 4 week waits themselves.

You must have some pretty thorough doctors if they make you fill out more than that! LOL!

The agencies can get the letters of invitation for you. It won't be from the hotel, it will be from another company, basically they are made up but they are official documents with the correct registrations. In part that makes it easier, however I've not found getting the invites an issue - the Russian Marriotts and Sheratons of this world are well used to providing this support. Last time I applied, I asked the hotel to send me the form to start the visa support process, they sent it over and I completed my details eg passport no/DOB dates of reservation etc and send it back, they then prepared the letters of invitation and sent back to me, it was in 2 parts. Need to check the details carefully as sometimes there are mistakes in dates or nationality (difficult if you don't read Russian, not for dates obviously. They got my spouse's nationality wrong so sent it back to be reissued). The letter of invitation is then taken to the consulate with the completed application form and any other supporting documentation (eg a travel insurance certificate for example), photo and whatever else they require as per the website. In my experience the consulate staff check the application and if there is a mistake they do not accept the application, working out whats wrong can be an issue, esp if they just throw it back and shout in Russian, then you are none the wiser on what to correct - if they accept the application then you are almost certain to be issued the visa. Again the visa should be checked, even if processed by an agency, as they too can make a mistake on the dates or other details. Indeed it is a risk either way, since the rules can change with the wind and without notice. If it is straight forward eg a US citizen applying in the US and a single entry tourist visa, I would give it a go. There is no right or wrong, just what one feels most comfortable doing.

Hotels generally only issue an invitation for the duration of your reservation and don't cover days you are not staying with them. Some will say that you need only one invitation and you automatically get 30days on the visa - not sure if that is correct or not I'm afraid.

We received our invitations directly from the hotels. Simply requested them and shortly thereafter received them. The dates of the invitation specifically stated we were arriving on such date and departing on such date. No extra days were allowed.

Living in Texas, we don't have a nearby consulate. So we just mailed everything off to the specific consulate handling Texas.

That was it. Can't exactly remember how long it took to get the return envelope from the consulate, but knowing how I usually do things, it was way ahead of time.

In answer to the question "Why use an agency?", here is a post I made on the France forum: If you live in France and want to travel to Russia, it may be worthwhile paying through the nose to have an agency get your visa for you. This is my sad conclusion after trying to get a tourist visa for an upcoming trip to Moscow. As I always do when applying for a visa, I printed out and very carefully followed the instructions on the website of the Russian Embassy .. assembled all the requested documents... and arrived a few minutes before the embassy opened. All to no avail. On my first visit, there were already several dozen people ahead of me in line... after 2 hours in the rain and cold I was still outside, and the guards announced that they were not accepting any more applications that day. Returning the next day -- much earlier -- I managed to get inside after only an hour's wait. However, the clerk refused to accept the application because, among other things, I had not submitted a duplicate of the application form (even though the website said only one copy was needed), the official invitation from my Moscow hotel did not include the exact job title of the person who had signed it, and ... my personal favorite, the white border around my photo was not the exact same width on every side (and no, of course they would not let me use a pair of scissors). I hasten to add that not all Russian embassies are this bad: I have gotten visas previously from their embassies in the U.S. and Finland, and British friends who will be traveling with me got visas in London with no difficulty. Unfortunately for us Parisians, the apparatchiks here seem to have been trained at the Franz Kafka School of Tourism.

OK, here's my update.
Although several here warned about using an agency so as "not to make a mistake" that really made no sense to me. If you make a mistake on the Russian form, wouldn't you make the same mistake on the same form you fill out for the agency? What kind of mistake? Forgetting my birthday? Copying a passport number wrong?
But I really didn't get a full warning how bad the consulate is in NYC. I'm in NYC for a month, so today I went armed with my forms, my invitation letters, my cashiers check, etc. They take applications from 9:30 to 1. I got there (thanks to what I was beginning to think was a bus strike) at 10:15. There are only two lines -- one is for those applying for or picking up their visa. The other line is for Russian Nationals with passport issues. There were only about 20 people in line ahead of me, so I thought that seemed good. At 11:40 (an hour and 25 minutes after arrival) I was the second person in line at the door. The sullen guard came out twice more and took three people at a time who were picking up completed passports -- but no new applicants. At Noon, the gal ahead of me asked him if they were still taking applications. No response. He REFUSED to acknowledge her existence. At 1 PM he came out and got three more people for picking up. Again, the woman asked -- this time he said, "no, no more applications today". He couldn't have told us that an hour earlier?

Meanwhile I heard a lot of stories in line. One guy is an office assistant for a law firm who was there to apply for three workers visas. He said he often goes and they don't open until 11 or so then stop taking applications after the first 5 people go in. He'll go back tomorrow, but doesn't care since he's paid to do this. Another guy said it was his third time there.

So today I sent my stuff off to VisaHQ in Washington. The Fed Ex round trip cost me $39 (sounds outrageous since I didn't even do an expedited or an insured delivery!) And there is the $49 fee to the agency. So I was trying to save $88 by doing it on my own. Now I know better. So altogether the Visa cost me $228, instead of $140 if I had been able to do it myself.

What is also interesting is that VisaInternational insists they can't send the TOURIST visa application until 45 days before your entry to Russia. I even emailed them to confirm and they confirmed that yes 45 is the limit for TOURIST visas. Visa HQ said they can do it up to 90 days ahead, that only Business Visas have the 45 day limit. Another agency online says it's 60 days. The official Russian Consulate site gives NO indication of when you can send it. Wouldn't it be nice if someone could figure it all out and get consistent answers for people?

mlaffite, it sounds like the NYC consulate has hired the former French consulate employees!!!

What a pain in the butt, Patrick!! Thanks for the update.

You can certainly send it to the embassy or consulate yourself. (You can;t go in person - they don;t operate that way.)

I think a log of people use services since they are afraid of some of the horror stories of the Russian government losing or misplacing or delaying things. The times I went (we had to have hotel invitations for every night - and hotel code info was inserted in the number/letters on the visa) we got the passports back in about 3 1/2 weeks.

Sounds very similar to applying at the London consulate. Personal applications are no longer possible, but in the days when it was, the line was all the way around the building. It would open at 0900 or 0930 and close at abt 1230 except wednesdays and public holidays of the UK and Russia (so in May it was practically closed the whole month), people would start to line up from about 5am to be sure to get inside and lodge the application. If you were unlucky and arrived at 1030 thinking you have plenty of time, you'd be mistaken as they only let 5-6 people past the gate into the building where there was another line by each window. If you were unlucky to have a visa company person in front of you with 50 passports and applications, by the time you got to the window, they would tell you they are closed and pull the shutter down right in front of your face. If you did manage to get to the window and they found something wrong with the application, the whole lot got thrown back and something shouted at you in Russian, which is not understandable so none the wiser as to what to correct on the application. You'd have to go home, correct whats wrong if you know whats wrong and repeat the process of lining up.

But you do get to meet interesting people in the line, some for instance who are clueless and think they can pick up a visa without any supporting documentation and others who do a half completed application (oh i need a photo didnt know that) and others who would do the coffee run.

Several consulates are like this, its not just the Russian one.

"You can certainly send it to the embassy or consulate yourself. (You can;t go in person - they don;t operate that way.)"

I'm not sure what you're saying, here, nytraveler. I think you posted your thoughts completely backwards? You CAN go in person, but like I found out, they are difficult to deal with. But you CANNOT send it to them. From the official Russian consulate site:

"Attention:In order to streamline and improve the visa obtaining process as well as for security concerns the Russian visa section is no more processing visa applications by mail, starting from June 1, 2010.
In the meanwhile the applicants unable to be present in our visa section in person are strongly recommended to rely on the services provided by the local travel agencies."

That is a frustrating experience for sure. I'm using the same agency I used for my Russian visa again for my trip to China. I liked having them to call on when I had a question, and also like that someone else, not me, is reviewing my application first, then going through the hassle themselves. They do this for a business so I'll leave it up to them to burn their time and energy to do it for me. But logistically speaking, I'm no where near either a Russian or a Chinese consulate so I don't have many options.

Go to Ukraine- close enough and no visa.

I wonder how well we treat the Russians who want visas to the US?

rs899, I will be going to Ukraine also, but are you suggesting to skip Russia as Ukraine is "close enough"? You're kidding right? Where is the Hermitage Museum (one of the greatest in the world) in Ukraine -- for starters?

Getting a visa for some countries can be an expensive pain in the butt, as Patrick has experienced. However it would not put me off going to a place that I really want to see. I would not trade for anything the experience of walking in Red Square for the first time or seeing St Petersburg. It was worth it.

I think it's the same Visa system for most countries. When my daughter was getting a Visa for Spain, she was told she had to go to the consulate listed for our residence (it was in Chicago). She was able to get permission to go to the Boston consulate since she was in school there. It took multiple attempts to make an appointment (they don't let you just show up) and it took multiple appointments. Same attitude as you experienced at the Russian consulate.

"I think it's the same Visa system for most countries." Alas, no. Some countries are much worse than others. Russia and the 'stans (formerly part of the USSR) may be the worst, with China and India close behind. Last year I found getting a visa for Syria, for instance, much simpler, and for Asian countries I often just get them on arrival. It is more expensive for US citizens, since US visas are so expensive (and such a hassle - you MUST show up in person no matter how far away the embassy is.)

Sounds like kybourbon's daughter was applying for a student visa, different process than for a tourist visa - which is not required for Spain for US citizens in any case.

Wow, I have never heard of such problems....nor so much misinformation.
There are two ways of getting a legitimate visa support set of documents, from a hotel which is registered to host foreign guests(federal registration is like bonds provided by tour operators in most countries, a guarantee of financial responsibility to the deliver what they promise)and from a Russian Tour Operator who is registered the same way. As it stands, the one who provides the visa support document is legally responsible for the visitor's stay, and registers their visa, provides assistance if there is trouble, for example a lost passport or illness, and must confirm the visitor leaving within 2 days of their departure.
Major hotels usually offer the visa support for free but some, particularly the many mini-hotels found in St Petersburg and Moscow usually charge a fee. It costs nothing to create the document, just filling in a few lines of data about the visitor and dates of stay.

The application is very simple and short, 16-18 lines for all but a few countries which have imposed complex intrusive applications for Russian citizens, the US, Canada and UK primarily, have to fill out a 2 page forum that asks about prior jobs, weapons training etc. The difference is they really do not care for the details, just make sure each question is answered somehow, even if only "N/A". Very very seldom is anyone turned down.
What to take:
1. A passport style photo(any properly sized and neutral background photo of the standard passport style are accepted. I usually just go to Walgreen's on my way to the consulate and get two photos for $6 in 5 minutes. I have also taken them myself and printed on my inkjet printer. Some consulates are picky about the home printed images since they are easily Photoshopped and run if they get wet.
2. Completed application form, type 95 used for decades for most countries other than the US, Canada or UK.
3. A postal money order or bank cashier's check made out to the Russian Consul General. The fee is based on how much that country charges Russian citizens so for the US is $140 for 7 day processing. Most EU counties have a 50 euro maximum based on a 2 year old visa agreement with Russia. UK is not part of that agreement.
Faster processing can be asked for, for a higher consular fee.
4. The two part visa support document, usually sent by email attachment and printed out at home for Tourist Visas. Longer visas such as business visas require the original document, or the invitation sent by Telex directly to the consulate. That is the easiest, because you do not have to do anything, just show up with the application, photo, money order and ...
5, Your passport that is valid for 6 months after your expected exit from Russia. A full page will be used to paste in a visa.
If handing it in personally, they consular officer will look over everything to see if there is anything missing and then give you an appointment stub that is your claim ticket to pick it up 7 days later. That is it, nothing traumatic or scary that people are warned about. It seems that people love to scare others about things neither knows anything about.

Russian Consulates in some countries now have farmed out applications to visa services. The 3rd party does not process anything, and has no authority other than to bring bundles of applications to the consulate. These visas services can't legally get you an invitation or do much of anything the promise. The consulates are not part of immigration so couldn't care less where the invitation came from but immigration does. Last year many people were tracked down with visas which were obtained by fake visa support documents. I got caught in that roundup and if I did not have resources there it would have been much more expensive to get resolved, hiring a lawyer, appearing in hearings and fines, over a 2 weeks period. My mistake was needing a visa quickly so bought a visa support document from a well known large visa service. It turns out the business which supposedly sponsored me was a vacant lot in Moscow. In the past and since I always got legitimate visa support documents from Russian registered hotels or tour operators, or a work permit/work visa.
A visitor who is not aware of the law would have been much more inconvenienced if caught with a 3rd party generated visa support document.
There are hundreds of visa agencies that have sprung up in US cities that have consulates, and from my inside experience can say they are all charging vast sums for almost nothing. The only legal service they can provide is transporting your application a few blocks to the consulate. When I return to San Francisco a couple times a year and go to the Russian consulate on Green Street there are a half dozen of the couriers each with bundles of from 20 to 200 passports, which that charge $30-450 apiece for "handling". It is really a racket. A few years ago FedEx delivery and return was the normal way of getting a visa from a distant city.
A few laws have changed. Almost all consulates around the world allow applications only from citizens or legal residents of the country being applied in. So for me, every time I need a visa I have to go back to the US to apply. Gone are the days of taking a bus ride to Finland in the morning and returning by 5pm with a new 1 year business visa.

Getting a Russian visa is simple if to follow the rules for the type of visa you are applying for. The problems and inconveniences pop up only when trying to bypass the regulations and immigration law, such as using 3rd hand visa support documents., Yeah, it works most of the time but any reading of the law and you know you are doing it wrong. Tourist visas are intended for specific activities...tourism, which involved hosting/sponsoring hotels or tour operators. For longer, none tours activities, other visas are available, including Private visa...up to 90 days, business visas up to 12 months, student visas etc.
4 million people each summer come to my adopted home of St Petersburg and have no problems, the ONLY problems I hear about are on forums where people are trying to get around the visa laws.
If you have questions, just ask, there is little about St Petersburg that I do not know.

"Getting a Russian visa is simple if to follow the rules for the type of visa you are applying for. The problems and inconveniences pop up only when trying to bypass the regulations and immigration law. . ."

Sorry, amexpat, but I'd disagree with that statement based on my experience above. I DO call standing in line at the consulate for 2 and a half hours while they only let in 20 people and refuse to tell you an hour and a half before they stop taking applications (despite their official hours) that they will take no more, you must come back tomorrow -- an inconvenience. You can say such things are convenient if you want, but I will disagree with you.

Yes, some posters above did give some false information. If I gave any, I'd sure like to know what it is, although admittedly you didn't say that you were referring to anything I said.
But you do say that the ONLY problems you hear about are people trying to get around the visa laws. I was NOT trying to get around any visa laws and I followed everything you said to the letter. Yet I DID have what I'd call a problem by trying to go to the consulate myself -- which is NOT against any rules or laws.

Well, I just got back from the Russian Consulate in NYC and I can attest to the frustrating nature of applying for a visa. The first time I went, I got there 45 min before it opened, was 7th in line and waited 3 hours. When I got in there was no rhyme or reason to it and after 45 min was told to go to the window where I was told that the clerk was busy. Finally she took me, took one look at my invitation and rejected it, saying it was too faint to read (which it was very faint). The second time I got there an hour before it opened, was 3rd in line and got in right away. After waiting for 30 minutes inside it was all accomplished very quickly. I was given a date to come back to collect my visa. On that day I came an hour and a half before the pick up time (11) and waited until 12:30. The guard does not look at you or seem to have any interest in getting people in and out of there. Once I finally got in, there was another guard who had a box full of american passports. He gave me my passport, told me to check it and that was that! Still not sure why it takes so long!

"Getting a Russian visa is simple if to follow the rules for the type of visa you are applying for. The problems and inconveniences pop up only when trying to bypass the regulations and immigration law, such as using 3rd hand visa support documents"

Complete rubbish. Who on this thread has been doing that? Maybe it's true of your friends, but don't extrapolate to others. Russia and other CIS states are still mired in the red tape of the communist era, and their procedures bear no relationship to those of most other countries.

NeoPatrick-

Of course I was kidding when I suggested a trip to Ukraine instead- I need to visit the Hermitage , too, before I die.

Just to plug Ukraine a bit anyway- they had the same corrupt and bureaucratic visa rules and attitudes until about 2006 when they did away with visas for US citizens. I recall my Ukrainian wife slipping a US Grant to a Ukrainian immigration officer at Odessa airport because my visa "was not in order". I hope that one vestige of the Orange Revolution is not overturned by the present administration.

Neo,

Sorry to hear your visa experience was unpleasant, to say the least. I hope everything with the agency goes smoothly.

I will be looking forward to following you on your extended trip. We're in the midst of planning something similar for next year.

Happy travels!

This is a fabulous source of cash for the bureaucrats in Russia. It's no wonder why they won't give up this "Cash Cow" to the EU, US, or the rest. Too bad.

crusty, do you mean as opposed to the "fabulous source of cash" for the US? Aren't our visa fees similar or perhaps even higher?

An update. Today I got my passport with Visa back from Visa Services. It took a little over 4 weeks total from the time I sent it till I got it back. I still would have preferred to be able to get it myself at the Russian consulate and have saved $88. And as I said originally, I still don't know what kind of mistake I'd make on the form -- I certainly didn't make one on the form to Visa Services which was essentially the same as the one for the consulate.

But at least it's done and now I have my passport back.

I'm glad you have your Visa and you are good to go. Too bad it's such a pain in the rear to do it yourself. Enjoy your trip.