There is a system for dealing with inappropriate posts.

Posting in this manner is not that system.

Hey bbg,

Was someone rude to you?

If so, you may click on the triangle and report that post to the editors.

OK -- I am in the dark. You have only posted one other thread in the last four years . . and received more than 10 responses that were all • Appropriate, • Polite, • Helpful, and • Accurate. No one was the teensiest bit rude to you.

janisj, not everybody "gets" flanneruk's style, even when his answer is relevant to the question asked and, in my opinion, quite helpful.

Padraig: but even flanner's was gentle

I think every responder on the query about tube stations gave
concise, relevant and helpful information with no rudeness
demonstrated at all. It's a shame that perceived rudeness
can negate worthy responses...IMHO.

Maybe she was onTrip Advisor and forgot where she'd been attacked

Got my curiosity piqued, so I read the posts in question. The only post that could possibly be considered rude was Flan, and he was only stating his opinions emphatically by using bold text.

If one can't stand straight talk ----------

If there is, for example, a newbie, who wants to go to Italy, Switzerland and France in 10 days including air travel time, I get more than a tad perturbed.

Obviously,that person hasn't even tried to take advantage of the wealth of information that's available from the Fodor's forums, before they posted.

That really drives me somewhere.

I also try to point out ovsious shills. They're easily recognizable, and Fodor's editors are kind to remove their posts quickly.

I remember learning in a soft skills class I took from the NTL, you don't drive me crazy, I drive myself crazy about your actions.

Telling someoen making a foolish plan that it is foolish isn;t rude - it's HELPFUL. They may not perceive it that way due to their lack of knowledge - but that is a problem with their perception - not with the answer.

If someone were to call the OP an idiot that would be rude. Calling the plan unreasonable isn't.

If you find those responses rude - then I would suggest you may be too delicate to post on an open forum - where people often have differences of opinion - that they express vigorously - but without personal attacks.

Wow - if you're talking about the part where someone is advising that the most detailed information doesn't always work out successfully (seeking precision on this is a completely spurious, self-deluding activity) then you're having problems with the English language. I think you should be more considerate of people who spend their time to give you help.

It looks like people took a lot of time and effort into answering your question. It was an unusual one and every response was kind and thoughtful. In the world, not everyone will communicate in your exact language. Welcome to the internet and an international travel site.

It could be that you were anxious about being in a strange city and worried about your husband and the wheelchair, it seems like a lot to digest. If you had a problem with one post, it is perfectly acceptable to ask for clarification from that person?


All that taken into consideration do you honestly believe that starting this thread to people who have been nothing but kind to you is a good way to repay the favor?

I think it's rather cheeky to accuse an unnamed “someone” of rudeness and ask others to point fingers around the board at their board buddies. That seems much more the social blunder.

The person tried to put your mind at ease and I would think a simple thank you would suffice.
But now you've moved into, "gee I'm sorry" territory.

I agree with bambamsgrl. I have been posting here under the names janswitz, slojan and now my current since about 2000. I took a hiatus of a couple of years off when the board style changed. Now, I have been postin sporadically and have noticed a marked decline in civility.

I don´t see the need for lectures or calling questions foolish or stupid. If you don´t like it, don´t answer it. Period. It is possible to ask for clarification without bein condescending. It is also possible for you to have a different experience than another poster, and both of you be completely correct.

I agree with slojan. As per Fodor's suggested etiquette, it's not always easy to discern the intent of words on a page without the added help of facial expressions and body language, and impossible to know the personality type of some-one answering his/her question when the OP is not a regular reader of this forum.
Like slojan said, if you don't like it don't answer. Easy peasy.

Bambam, you were given an impressive amount of helpful advice with useful links - people went to considerable trouble to answer your question.

And your response is to complain of rudeness? Posting here is a voluntary activity - you have benefitted from the kindness of strangers and should recognise it.

I don't mind the rudeness. But I wish people here would quit snickering at my grape coloured fanny pack. I am now extremely self-conscious when I hook her up. If I get pick-pocketed it will be the fault of people here.

I am not going to answer until 2014.

cold - now you've upgraded your bum pack and are calling it "grape" when formerly it was only pedestrian purple? I don't think anyone is snickering - we're all ROTFLOAO!!!

Be careful not to call it a fanny pack in the UK - fanny means something different here (hint, its on the other side of the body...)

Hi all,

>You have only posted one other thread in the last four years<

It takes someone 4 years to get around to complaining, and you folks want to respond in detail?

It'll be another 4 years before she tells you that you are very rude.

There are actually 2 threads--one pretty old. How odd that she thanked everyone for the information she got--which WAS very to her point--and then is all upset about it.
I might say that "spurious" could be an incorrect usage for describing the information request, but the information given was completely straightforward and helpful. LOL

Flanner was blunt, but absolutely correct and had the most useful information on that thread considering the problem presented. It appears the challenges that the OP was facing were based on the hotel's location which required underground travel with all of the caveats Flanner knowingly pointed out. The simple solution might have been to choose a hotel in a location that mitigated the OP's mobility problems.

Perhaps she is referring to other posts she has read and not to her own. There is an occasional response that is a bit strong, if not actually rude. In any case, she seems to have disappeared as so many who post such material often do.

"It'll be another 4 years before she tells you that you are very rude."

Would it kill us to have a little patience???? Sheesh!

(quite observant of you ira

<< I consider it rude to say that someone's seeking information is spurious and self-deluding >>

Flanneruk used these exact words in the OP's tube station post so she's stating that he is rude. The problem is that the OP did not really read what flanner wrote. If she had she would not have been insulted and she would have realized the difficulties.

Read my first post, above.

When we started parsing a two year old reponse as to whether it is rude or not, it is time to close down these boards.

So much whining.

Well, the one we are "parsing" now is about a week old. Maybe some better parsing is needed.

Tak a look at this heading.

Info needed re tube station in London


Posted by: bambamsgrl on Jun 29, 12 at 10:22pm Posted in: EuropeTagged: United KingdomJump to last reply


Add a Reply

Adu - The response is from June 30, 2012. Granted, it took her a week to complain but not 2 years. What 2 year old thread are you looking at?

My mistake.

Adu, that was a spurious and self-deluding mistake.

That seems to be very helpful Padraig.

I love the useful information that is generously provided by many users on this forum. However, you often see rude remarks come from out of the blue, even from users who are generally helpful substantively. I'm not sure what it is about this forum, but there is a really strange incongruity between the substance of the information provided as compared to the overall tone of the board. It's not enough to put me off from engaging in the discussion--I'm a lawyer, and used to some less than civil discourse from time to time--but it probably does chase some folks away who might contribute to the discussion.

I'd be more likely to be chased away by an excess of prissiness: that's a form of discourse I find intolerable, because it is fundamentally intolerant.

There are a handful of FodorGarchs, including some responding to this thread who claim they are in the dark about this matter, but who IME have at times been downright rude to a perhaps naive request - words I remember are such as

"your plan is more than idiotic"

"downright crazy"

and similar belittling statements that have brought the OP to tears at times

and on and on and it sometimes get to be piling on - others try to top the first blunt replay - I am not sure what this OP is talking about but I do know there is a pattern of rude IMO reactions to often first-time posters and I have complained on those threads time and time again about FodorGarchs who routinely do this.

And it is not just one or two.

And Fodors Forums suffer because such novice users do not come back and they - not FodorGarchs - buy the guidebooks, patronize the advertisers, etc.

Novies users know not how to push the button when they get socu boorish behaviour and the moderators do not seem to care much about it, albeit yes it is hurting Fodors a lot - the chasing away of novice users.

<I suggest that you go to Vienna instead. every station has a lift.>

Wow looking at the original thread - even one who I consider the kindest most gentlest of FodorGarchs can lapse into rudeness as well!

Paddy writes:
Adu, that was a spurious and self-deluding mistake.
____
Après moi, le déluding

I so agree with Padraig about the off-putting prissiness
factor - only I remove the 'r'.

Adu - you are so consistently witty - I love your comments. Do I remember correctly that you a Brooklynite?

<I suggest that you go to Vienna instead. every station has a lift.>

I believe the Vienna comment was a genuine attempt to be helpful by offering an alternate city that is more friendly to people who need help with stairs. The OP has never stated that she has made any plans (air, hotel, etc.) for London. Lots of people recommend places that posters have not asked about.

Adu is so much happier since they doubled the dosage.

So Victor Meldrew in the corner p***ed someone off by being condescending, welcome another day ending in "y" in this happy little institution.

Thank you Adrienne, born and raised in Brooklyn as was Mrs. Adu.
____

Cold

You should see how happy I am when they triple the dosgae. I might even answer someone politely if they ask are 20 cities too much for an afternoon.

...what twk said, but I'm not a lawyer.

"Even if there is a detailed guide available, seeking precision on this is a completely spurious, self-deluding activity."---------------

Let's re-word: "Even if you find these details, please remember that break-downs occur often enough that the info would be moot."

"Telling someoen making a foolish plan that it is foolish isn;t rude - it's HELPFUL. They may not perceive it that way due to their lack of knowledge - but that is a problem with their perception - not with the answer."------------However, nytraveler, wouldn't the word "unworkable" be more appropriate than "foolish"? Why make a person feel foolish when they are only inexperienced with travel?


I too wonder what prompted this, bambamsgrl? Since, as others have mentioned upthread, your particular instance occurred some years ago?

BTW, did you take that trip?

TDudette - Bambamsgrl posted on 30th June this year. Her previous posting was some time ago though.
I suspect her next one will involve an even longer time gap.

You do make good points about the wording of posts.

No body reads anything. The thread was started on June 29, 2012. Go look.

Read the OP's post on this thread and then read flanner's post on her June 29th thread. Connect the dots. This is the third time I'm explaining this and people keep perpetuating the rumor that the offending thread is years old. What gives? Who shall we blame for this? Where do we begin the beatings?

And I want a dose of whatever Adu takes!!!

And I want an aubergine bum pack to compete with cold!!!


</rant>

Adrienne I heard that puce is the purple shade of the season...aubergine is so June 2012!!

<<If there is, for example, a newbie, who wants to go to Italy, Switzerland and France in 10 days including air travel time, I get more than a tad perturbed.

I wonder why so many seem to take such posts so personally. To take personal offense to an unreasonable itinerary seems a bit odd.

<<Lots of people recommend places that posters have not asked about.

I will just speak about the times this has happened to me - and it is most unhelpful. If I was asking about England, why should I care how wonderful things are in Austria. How does this help me plan my trip England?! I would imagine most people have selected their destinations for a very good reason - or else they would be posting: where should I go? (Ah, another question fraught with peril on these boards).

I once did France, Switzerland then Italy in 3 hours.

Does that help at all?

I went to the Netherlands, Germany and Belgium in 3 seconds .

What perterbs me are people who use the word train (as in choo choo) as a verb. I'm training to Rome. Do those same people say "I'm carring to the mall?"

I want to car from Venice to Florence. What's a good rental company?

And jamikins - no, no, no to puce!! Not with my skin tones!

And I would love any good suggestion for places to visit. Even Canada.

hetismij1 - please tell us your secret for the 3 second trip to 3 countries - I want to take that tour!

And now back to the puppy cam.

For a lot of posters, being a trusted source of travel information is all they have in their lives. When their advice isn't accepted, they relive the wife and kids leaving in the middle of the night, the boss firing them, the car refusing to start, the poor refusing their money etc etc.

Sure people can be a bit grouchy here. But there are good reasons why.

Com'mon hets try to take this seriously for once.

Adrienne - it's called the drielandenpunt .

Lots of them, all over Europe - so perfect for ticking off those European countries .

Cold, that's how posh Canada is?

The poor refuse your money?

Adrienne I highly recommend Canada (as a cdn)!!

Start day 1 in Vancouver, but jump on the ferry to Victoria at the end of that day. The next morning leave Victoria to drive to Tofino for the afternoon, then head to Campbell river to fly to Calgary via kamloops, but just for coffee. After a morning in Calgary head to west Edmonton mall for an afternoon of shopping. Fly from thereto Toronto for a blue jays game then you must stop in Montreal for two days and do a day trip to Quebec city before flying home...

Will try to think of some good day trips and restaurants to recommend!!

"Where do we begin the beatings?"

Wow! I didn't know there would be beatings!

"whipping" or "chaining"?

hetismij2 - that's so cool.

jamikins - don't worry about the resto recommendations - I don't think they'll be time to eat a sit down meal!

me thinks you are toooo sensitive..

i think wanting to know exactly how many stairs is a bit unreasonable.

everyone was just trying to help you.

your questions would best be put directly to the tube authority by phone or mail it seems to me.

No one was the teensiest bit rude to you.>

Depends on your perception of rudeness or not - again I find the following at least a teensy bit rude:

<I suggest that you go to Vienna instead. every station has a lift.>

<I suggest that you go to Vienna instead. every station has a lift.>

Wow looking at the original thread - even one who I consider the kindest most gentlest of FodorGarchs can lapse into rudeness as well!>>

i confess - that was me.

[thanks for the compliment, Pal!]

perhaps it could have been more felicitously expressed, but it was an attempt, albeit a little curt, to be helpful - when we were in Vienna, i noticed that every underground station did in fact have a lift. a joy for the disabled, elderly, those with children in pushchairs, etc.

the OP might have thought at the time "that's not very helpful, we're going to london" but in a year or two's time, when they have recovered from the hell of trying to negotiate London, s/he might think - someone said that there are lifts in Vienna - why don't we go there?

advice, like a dog, is not only for Christmas!

Let's not get bogged down with this exact OP and what was posted - it is mild rudeness as FodorGarchs can be - the point is there have been many threads were folks were downright rude with comments like 'you're insane to.." "more than idiotic" - actual paraphrases of quotes I've seen many times, including from some above who feign innocence - one new OP yes say one FodorGarch's bluntness brought her to tears.

I take umbrage at these onslaughts of rudeness to new posters (to veteran ones know - it's like water off flanneruk's back but to newbies we should be very polite - yes some of the itineraries they pop up with are more than ridiculous but we can say that in a nicer way and not chase them away.

And this overt rudeness has happened many many times in the past.

We all benefit from Fodors - let's keep that in mind and Fodors benefits from FodorGarchs' vast vast bank of European travel knolwedge and experiences - yet Fodors no doubt gets more bucks from new posters - they buy the books, respond to banner ads, etc that FodorGarchs rarely do - so such rudeness to new posters really hurts Fodors all along - one reason I think there should be a zero tolerance of overt rudeness, which there has not been in the past.

Again the Lounge is different and veteran posters as well - it is just the new or first-time or few-time posters that I think we should treat with kid gloves.

I know I am in the minority in this feeling but will continue to point out and lambaste over rudeness as I have routinely done in the past- on too many occasions to count.

Someone thought Annhig was kind and gentle?

I agree with PalenQ. This is, or should be, a forum to help with travel plans, not to ridicule or shame a poster who posts a mostly unworkable plan. There are kind words in every dictionary and they should be used to redirect the poster to better choices. Why should this be difficult? Are we so smug, seasoned travlers that we are, that we can't stoop to answer entry level travel questions and be civil about it? Or, are we attempting to be oh-so clever in our negatively worded advice? The Lounge is a better place to be witty, catty and critical -- not here.

crckwc - ok - a challenge for you.


suppose there is a thread that starts : "am i mad to try to see Rome, Venice and Florence in 4 days? - I land in Rome at about 9 am Day 1, get the train to Florence late on Day 2, spend Day 3 in Florence and then get the last train to Venice to spend Day 4 there, then go home. Is this too much?"

is there a tactful way to tell the hypothetical OP that they are bonkers?