Esperanza77

Hello
For 5 days in March, which would you choose: Rotterdam with 2 day trips in Benelux or Madrid with a day trip to Toledo.

We enjoy architecture, walking, good food, people watching, contemporary art, and street art (a plus).

A few facts: we've been to Amsterdam before and did not care for it a lot. We've also been to Andalusia and loved it. Our favourite city is Berlin.


Thanks!

StCirq

That's a really weird combo, in my opinion. I mean, how do you even pair those things up? I love Rotterdam for all its newness and architectural funkiness and brave new worldness, but how do you pair that up with Madrid (which I personally detest), and just generally Spain and the `Netherlands are so freaking different. It's hard to tell where you're coming from, frankly.

You seem to have a very strange map of Europe in your mind.

quiltingmamma

I consider weather when I plan travel and in March, a lot depends if early or late March. Personally, the raw sea damp air you will get in Rotterdam holds little appeal to me. April or May is much nicer in the Netherlands. But if 'architecture' for you is modern architecture, then Rotterdam by all means.
Madrid and environs will be warmer, dryer, but despite street art, architecture is predominately old.

janisj

>>Rotterdam with day trips or Madrid and Toledo<<

I scanned the title quickly and read is as "Rotterdam with day trips TO Madrid and Toledo" and couldn't wait to see what sort of troll post it was

Anyway -- the two choices are so totally 100% different it seems an odd choice. If Berlin is your favorite city than that would seem you like modern, some history, a little edgy -- which would point to Rotterdam IMO. But then you say you enjoyed Andalusia which couldn't be more different.

So I don't think anyone here can help you decide.

March most likely will be colder/wetter in Benelux.

danon

Madrid is a fabulous city with everything you said you enjoy.
Toledo is ,as Fodorites often say about small towns, a " gem" .
It was the capital of Spain until the 15 hundreds...

outwest

I enjoyed our visit to Rotterdam but for five days I would choose Madrid with a daytrip to Toledo.

cdnyul

Go to Berlin.

kja

With 5 days, I'd choose Rotterdam, as I think the combination of Madrid and Toledo is better for at least 6 days (4 in Madrid, 2 in Toledo) -- and also because mention contemporary art, and IMO, the finest art in Madrid and Toledo is not contemporary.

danon

There is no " designated" time one is obliged to spend in any city or town.

btw, Reina Sofia Museum in Madrid has 20.000 works of modern art :

Spanish art and works by major foreign artists. Pieces by Donald Judd, Anish Kapoor, Bruce Nauman, Tony Cragg, Ellsworth Kelly and Julian Schnabel were all added, along with Picasso's 1928 'Figura' in addition of works by Miró, Gris, André Breton, Man Ray, Joaquín Torres García and others
Thr major draw for most visitors: the Picasso Rooms, divided into pre- and post-Civil War, with 'Guernica' in the centre.
Miró, Julio González and Dalí have rooms of their own. Paintings by Dalí include 'The Great Masturbator' and 'The Enigma of Hitler'. Several of the works by Miró are from his later life, the 1970s. The Spanish Republic (with works by Dora Maar and Julio González), surrealism in exile (with works by Buñuel, Picasso, Maruja Mallo...) "

kja

Of course there is no "designated" time for any place -- I simply stated the bases for my opinion about which option I would pursue. And yes, the Reine Sofia in Madrid has an outstanding collection of MODERN (not contemporary) art.

massimop

I know where you're coming from (figuratively speaking). I once was trying to decide between a short trip to Gdansk/Warsaw or one to Calabria.

Madrid ticks all your boxes, starting right at the airport. Weather is hard to predict but your chances of having nice walking round weather in Madrid in March is much higher.

Madrid has quite a variety of architecture of real note especially daring contemporary architecture (here's just a taste

https://architizer.com/blog/madrid-collection/

Madrid has terrific food, especially if you have a little money to spend but even if you don't.

massimop

http://untappedcities.com/2012/05/08...ban-art-scene/

danon

" yes, the Reine Sofia in Madrid has an outstanding collection of MODERN (not contemporary) art."

Actually, Reina Sofia features both modern and contemporay art. ,( contemporary
beginning in the 60s would make Picasso, Miró, Dali also contemporary artists)

" The conversion of the ‘Centro de Arte Reina Sofía’ into a ‘National Museum’ in 1988 was based around the objective of building up a Collection that brought all the various state collections of modern and contemporary art together in one place.
The groundwork was laid by the incorporation of the Collection from the Spanish Museum of Contemporary Art, which had been open from 1894 until 1988.This initial contribution grew with the addition of the Prado Museum’s 20th century art collection and groups of works by artists including Jacques Lipchitz ,Robert Capa Antonio Saura ,Gustavo Torner ,Brassaï ,Roberto Matta and Val del Omar "

massimop

Admittedly this bilingual guide to contemporary art in Madrid is difficult to read on a computer but it is comprehensive

http://turismomadrid.es/images/Conte...temporaneo.pdf

The more I think about it, the less it seems to me that this is an odd travel dilemma. Not only is it the case that it perfectly normal to want to see disparate parts of Europe, and to choose which order to see them, it's also the case that choosing between say, a week in Stockholm or a week in Rome means two very different experiences -- and questions like that come up all the time among travelers without people falling into a pearl-clutching swwon about how they can't process the question.

The history of the Netherlands is so complicated I can't quite keep it straight whether they wanted to remain with Spain or run their own show (and I realize there's probably no clear answer), but visiting Spain actually made me a lot more curious about the history of the Netherlands -- and vice versa -- and a lot of that history is played out in the art and architecture of both countries.

kja

I'm accustomed to current definitions of "contemporary" art, which start much later than the 60s. (What was contemporary in the late 1980s seems to me to be a different matter.) I hope this discussion proves useful to the OP in deciding whether Madrid, with the incredible Reina Sofia, meets their interests.

danon

"visiting Spain actually made me a lot more curious about the history of the Netherlands -- and vice versa -- and a lot of that history is played out in the art and architecture of both countries."


Spain and Netherlands have both "given " the world priceless works of art and some of the most memorable architecture.

Contemporary architects like Calatrava and Erick van Egeraat ( and others ) )continue to create
interesting and imaginative buildings around the world.

PalenQ

Brussels and Bruges and Gent and Antwerp are primo art and especially architecture museums (well Brussels is not all that apparent - but it does have pockets of say Art-Nouveau areas. And there are such sweet Dutch regional towns like Delft and Gouda and Leiden and Haarlem.... nearby- all and near Rottendam is also Kinderdijk - the largest grouping of behemoth wooden windmills in Holland -can take a boat there from Rotterdam or tram/bus and ferry:

https://www.google.com/search?q=kind...w=1745&bih=885

And all are easy day trips by train from Rotterdam- with some of the most dazzling architecture in Europe. And The Hague and Schevenignen also are neat. And nearly everyone you come in contact with as a tourist will speak rather good English IME - not so in Spain if that matters.

I think Rotterdam offers many more possible and different types of day trips- in two not one country.

Madrid and Toledo and Segovia and Aranjeuz Palace, 'the Spanish Versailles', etc. do too of course.

Now if not for that funky Dutch weather - often cool but not cold and dreary I believe but variable but for me would tip the nod to Madrid.

Trains are great in either place though Belgian-Dutch railways are much more dense, going everywhere - so are Madrids to the cities tourists usually go to. For more about trains and where to go check www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com -for fares and specials www.seat61.com - no need to book own tickets for the mainly regional trains serving those day trips where seat reservations may not even be possible and there is often a flat fare with little if any discount. Check however for day passes or longer. www.ns.nl -Netherlands Railways; www.renfe.com Spain and http://www.belgianrail.be/en/.

If taking high-speed Thalys Rotterdam-Antwerp-Brussels check for specials at www.thalys.com - seat reservations compulsory. More expensive than regional trains and of course spiffier and faster.

http://www.holiday-weather.com/rotte...verages/march/

http://www.holiday-weather.com/madrid/averages/march/

Now tulips according to this chart not uncommonly (but not commonly!) bloom in late March - if you can leave your choice till later you may be able to tell:

https://tulipsinholland.com/faq-tuli...flower-update/

IMDonehere

The charm and interest of Rotterdam is the modern architecture and some urban planning. This tragically was due to bombing during WWII. And yes, there are a number engaging and worthwhile towns nearby by train.

Madrid on the other hand has many world class museums, an entirely different cuisine, and it too, is close to many historic cities including Toledo and Segovia.

To me, it is a matter of your choice.

progol

Madrid and Toledo. Madrid is a grand city and Toledo is truly a gem.

PalenQ

Esperanza what dya think?