Salve, Laurie

Few suggestions:

See if you can book that Scavi tour for when you are sure everybody will be over their jet lag.

I think Orvieto may be too small to hold your group's interest for 3 days. it is a lovely town and a favorite of many but the honest truth is that this part of Italy is overloaded with gorgeous towns with lovely atmosphere, so I would not make a special point of lingering in it.

What I would suggest is that you add a day to Rome, and after your Rome stay, take a train to Orvieto to arrive there in the afternoon, pick up a car rental, put your luggage in the car, and take a moment to see the cathedral in Orvieto. And then drive to Montepuliciano.

I suggest you find an apartment on the periphery of Montepuliciano that gives you the best of the countryside views but also allows some of you sometimes to walk into Montepuliciano to shop, have a gelato -- etc. Make it "your" town. With your car, take trips to nearby places of interest -- the hot bath streams, the wineries, maybe the Etruscan museum in Chiusi (very well labeled in English, and not big, in a sweet town).

Spend several days there, drive to Siena, see the town, drop of the car, take the train to Florence for several nights. When your sister and daughter leave for the airport, you can pick up another car there if you like.

Or you could go back to Florence and catch a train for Naples and have more time in that area.

To reach Siena from Rome, the bus is better than the train (train requires changes). The bus departs hourly from Rome's Tiburtina station (on the metro line and is a major train/bus/metro hub) and takes about 3 hours.

http://www.sena.it/Home/78-1-en.html

From Siena, you can easily visit a lot of hill towns (Montalcino for Brunellos, Chianti area, San Gimignano for Vernaccia). There are a lot of day trips to both hill towns and wineries offered by tour companies from Siena or you could rent a car for a few days.

If you plan to stop in Orvieto, the public transport from there to Siena is not as easy. You would take the train from Orvieto to Chiusi (about 20 minutes away) and change to a train to Siena (do not get off at Torrita di Siena!)

Thank you both. Kybourbon do you think Siena is a good hub or do you like goldenautumn's suggestion of Montepulciano. Also do you think 2 days in Florence is enough? I think we may want to daytrip Lucca and/or San Gimignano....wineries, a cooking class...so much to do!

It really isn't possible to day trip to Lucca from Siena, with or without a car. If you want to see Lucca, it is easiest to do it as a daytrip from Florence, by bus or train.

San Gimignano without a car means a long bus trip from SIena or Florence.

Personally, I would not want that 3 hour bus trip from Rome to Siena, but I just don't like long bus trips. I'd almost rather take the 90 minute train to Florence and then take the bus to Siena from there, because it goes right through the scenic Chianti.

I just noticed that my fast typing managed to misspell Montepulciano no fewer than 3 times in a row! Apologies!

My preference for Montepulciano over Siena is based on its being slightly less mobbed by tourists and having more of a small town feel, with the beautiful views that make the Tuscan countryside more famous.

As for whether 2 days in Florence is "enough", you need to poll your group and get a sense of how many attractions they want to see. Like Rome, it is easy to spend a week or more in Florence and not complete the list of attractions any guidebook puts in its top tier. However, not everybody wants to go to museums, or go shopping, or visit more than one church. For some people, a day in Florence is fine.

I guess another choice would be to select a location outside of Florence and stay there for the entire 5 nights. Use public transport where available and rent the car for the balance. For some reason I am having a difficult time making a decision on this

THanks to all!

>>>Personally, I would not want that 3 hour bus trip from Rome to Siena, but I just don't like long bus trips. I'd almost rather take the 90 minute train to Florence and then take the bus to Siena from there, because it goes right through the scenic Chianti.<<<

It takes three hours to reach Siena from Rome whether you take a train, bus or drive. The bus is like a tour bus and your luggage is stored underneath. The trains are old and require changing in Chiusi. If you take the train to Florence and change, you get a better train at three times the price, but it takes longer to reach Siena and requires changes. If you continue on by bus from Florence, you have to walk from the train station to the bus station. It's simply easier/faster/cheaper to take the Sena bus for Rome.

The bus between Florence and Siena does not take a scenic route through Chianti. It takes a four-lane divided highway and isn't really at all scenic.

Montepuliciano is at the southern tip of Tuscany so not as convenient to see some of the places you mentioned. It also doesn't have the public transportation options you listed or as many day trip tour companies if you decide not to rent a car.

It really depends on which hill towns you want to visit. I'm not a fan of Lucca, but some people seem to love it. I wouldn't waste your short time in Florence (you really only have 1 1/2 days when you stay somewhere two nights) visiting anywhere else.

You really can't do it all in such a short time. You only have 2 1/2 days for the Tuscany portion so you need to prioritize.

Perhaps each of you should pick a must-see place in Tuscany and work your itinerary around that. It seems your sister has already picked Siena.

Thanks again. I like the idea of picking the must see places of interest to all 4 or us. We can then craft the 5 days around those towns.

The reason I don't like bus trips is that you can't comfortably get up and walk around. The trains also have tables, food service and wi-fi.

There are only a few locations in Tuscany where you can use public transportation for day trips to small towns and then otherwise fill in with a car rental. Siena is definitely one of those locations, but even there you are limited without a car.

it is actually not difficult to drive in Tuscany except in Florence. The rural roads are enjoyable. What I think you need to decide is whether your group would like an essentially small town-ish experience of Tuscany, immersed in the views of the countryside (for which you definitely need a car) or whether your group would do best with a livelier hotspot of shopping and sights, and some options for public transport to other sights.

If it is the latter, Florence itself makes a good stay for some people, because public transportation takes you to a lot of places, and the in-town options are endlessly interesting. You can book forays into the wine country, or just take walks up in the hills (a 15-minute bus ride away).

Siena is a robust town when it comes to in-town interest, but there are fewer public transportation outings available. But there is a car rental office in town, plus loads of commercial tours fanning out to small towns and wineries.

A place like Montepulciano only works if you would like, above all, to taste something of the tranquility of Tuscany's hilltowns without isolating yourselves on an actual farm. If you think your group would be charmed by a smaller town atmosphere, in a place where it feels time has almost stopped, and can handle heading out into the countryside everyday for mini-adventures in a car, then that can be a special experience of Italy.

But group dynamics are all different. There are some trips in Tuscany I would take with my sister than I don't think would work with my husband's family.

But if you are nervous about driving in scenic Tuscany, don't be. it is not difficult. You park outside the small towns (or Siena) and the rural roads are easy. You just don't drive into Florence.

We stayed outside of Siena in Tuscany at the Frances Lodge (not in the town of Siena) and took many day trips from there. We picked up a car as we left Orvieto. If you do have a car, be sure and see the small magical town of Civita di Bagnoregio on the way out. It looks like a Disneyland town from afar, it's that picturesque.

THanks everyone. I am thinking now that we should base in Florence for the 5 nights. Most say you lose a day relocating. I'm now thinking rent an apartment in Florence for 5 nights. Spend a couple days in Florence, 1 daytrip to Siena and then 2 days pursuing whatever catches our fancy. We could arrange a tour to vineyards and countryside etc. This may be the better use of our days. I guess now I should research Florence apartments. I've begun looking on homeaway.com

Sounds like a plan. Also look on booking.com for apartments. You can use their search feature to specify you want an apartment and they have good user reviews and you can book online.

http://tinyurl.com/c7uafwp

Just as an aside, I too have noticed "most say" that you lose a day relocating. I have NEVER "lost" a day of travel in Italy switching locations. I have never figured out what other people are doing that is causing them to lose so much time.

In my original suggestion to you about getting from Rome to Tuscany, I suggested that you spend the day in Rome until 2pm in the afternoon. You'd arrive in Orvieto around 3pm, pick up your rental car and see the cathedral, and then take a 1 hour stunningly scenic drive to Montepulciano. Sure you need a taxi ride to the station in Rome and to spend some time in a rental office, but all the rest of the day is seeing fabulous things.

To get from Montepulciano to Florence, I suggested taking a stunning one-hour drive to Siena, touring beautiful Siena for that whole day, then returning the car to the rental office, and taking a 1 hour train ride to Florence.

I'm not suggesting you now go back to that plan, but how the heck most other people manage to lose a whole day switching locations in Italy is a mystery to me. Even if you take the train from Rome to Florence, if you pack up the night before, settle your bill on the way to breakfast and ask the desk to arrange for a taxi to the station, you are on your way with less than a hour lost to logistics. I don't consider a comfortable Italian train ride with your family through lovely southern Tuscany "lost" travel time.

Anyway, I recommend you buy your train tickets to Florence in advance to take advantage of discounts and also because you are traveling around the 25th.

>>>You'd arrive in Orvieto around 3pm, pick up your rental car and see the cathedral, and then take a 1 hour stunningly scenic drive to Montepulciano.<<<

Not possible. The rental company will not be open at 3 pm.

>>>I am thinking now that we should base in Florence for the 5 nights. Most say you lose a day relocating. I'm now thinking rent an apartment in Florence for 5 nights.<<<

Unless you have a particular interest in Florence, you might still consider dividing your time. Many people find Florence too hectic. I've stayed multiple times in each of these cities so where you locate really depends on what you want to visit. If your visit doesn't include smaller towns, then I would leave Siena in the itinerary (or another hill town) and end in Florence. Florence will be difficult for getting in and out if you rent a car as you'll need to avoid the very large ZTL.

I've rented these apartments in Florence before, but it's a 15 minute walk from the train station and about that distance from the center. It's just a few minutes walk to many things in the Oltrarno.

http://www.residenzailcarmine.com/

If you stay in Siena, there are a lot of wine tours offered to places like Montalcino, Chianti, etc. Most hotels will have brochures for the various day tours.

In Florence, the wine tours lean more towards the Chianti area because it's closer. There are all budget ranges. Caf tours seems to have the most reasonable if you don't want to splurge.
http://www.caftours.com/

Once again thanks. I am going back to plan A. I imagine I can rent a car in Siena for a day if we'd like. I think the bus from Rome sounds very good. Can we purchase bus tickets ahead or when we arrive in Rome? If we leave Siena early in the day to travel to Florence, we will have almost 2 full days there.

The bus company for Rome/Siena is Sena. You can buy online in advance or when you get to Rome. The bus departs Rome Tiburtina station (it's on the metro line and also a major bus hub for Rome so can be reached by various means of transport). I always notify my credit card company in advance when making these types of purchases so they don't block the transaction. I'm not sure how far in advance you can book (probably just 30 days). The Sena website will roll over to Baltour for the booking. You will have to change it to English again at that point. You will need to print each ticket. I've found Baltour very responsive answering e-mails in the past.
http://www.sena.it/Home/78-1-en.html

Sometimes there are discounts on Sena so check during booking. Here's some info about it.
http://www.sena.it/Terms-and-Conditions-for-Italian-lines/263-1-en.html

The bus between Siena/Florence is Sita (7.80€). These tickets can't be bought online in advance AFAIK. Buy them when you get to Siena. The earliest departure is 6:20 am (too early for me!). There's an underground ticket office at Piazza Gramsci (bus hub area at edge of historic center).

Validate bus tickets on the bus. Put your luggage underneath (they won't do it for you). I always keep an eye on the luggage bin until it's closed and at stops although I've never had a problem with anyone trying to take luggage.

There are several rental companies in Siena. I've only used Hertz there and their office near the train station (it's walking distance). They might have a location more convenient for you or try some of the other providers. One day rentals tend to be expensive (about the same cost as a three day), but you can easily find your way south to Montalicino/Pienza areas or a bit NW to San G, etc or Chianti.

check www.groupon.it for deals