ROME..Trip report with emphasis on food..January 2007

Yet again I am having trouble with the "Edit" function so forgive me...(please read reference to Ditirambo as being akin to the village in NYC, not the East Village)

Welcome home. My hunger pangs are now in full symphony!! Regarding the edit function, I've noticed that it doesn't work once my posts get over a certain length, altho I have no idea what that point is.

Great, ek. THIS is a truly thrilling sequel story (other than all those boring TV series!!). Can't wait for the next installment.

Nice beginning. I'm starving already!

Ah, StCirq! (Forgive me, ek, the question is Roman-food-related!) You never told us how your meal at Sora Lella's was, though I asked you on the very thread where I had given you the recommendation! I was so curious because some people on Fodor's reported on a recent negative newspaper (NYT?) report on that restaurant, but nobody could provide a recent personal experience... Would you, please?

Can't wait to read more!

ekscrunchy -
I'm looking forward to the rest of your trip report. I'm in the doldrums because this time last year we were getting ready for our trip to Rome. This will be a good antidote for my Romesickness!

Enjoying your report. Getting hungry...

Thanks very much, everyone. Sorry I am making you all hungry! I will be back soon with Scavi tour, food shopping at Via Andrea Doria market, and lunch.

Thanks for sharing, EK.

You had me at "glorious week!" I can't wait to read your full report!

ek, this is great. Waiting for more...

Ek, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. Laugh because I’m enjoying this so much; cry because I’m not in Rome doing and eating all these wonderful things.

More, more!

Ah, just in time for my April trip to Rome! Can't wait for more Eks. You were very helpful to me in my trip planning for Sicily last year.

Gail

I booked reservations for the 9:15 Vatican Scavi tour a few months in advance. The price is 10 Euro per person. We enjoyed breakfast in the lovely high-ceilinged lemon yellow dining room of the Senato, with its glittery chandeliers and intricate white woodwork. Breakfast is included in the room price. The cornetto and other pastries were excellent. The tables are piled with fresh fruit, eggs, the usual cereals, mediocre sliced hams and cheeses, etc. The orange and grapefruit juices are not fresh. The hotel provides daily newspapers in Italian (several) and English (IHT) as well as a few Italian fashion magazines.

Dawdling at breakfast, we missed our chance to take public transport to the Vatican (the famed #64 bus stops a few short blocks south of the hotel) so we walked across the Piazza to the taxi stand and piled in for the short ride across the river to St. Peters. The ride cost about 5 Euro if I am remembering correctly. (Traffic was light that morning; the ride back to the hotel cost about 10 Euro in traffic). At no time did we have any problems with taxi drivers in Rome. {One night, en route to a restaurant, the driver became a bit confused finding a small street (Via S. Vito), so if you are venturing somewhat off the beaten path, you might want to have a general idea of where you are going, or of nearby landmarks, so you can help direct the driver.}

We arrived with no problem at the entrance to the Scavi excavations and picked up our tickets. Much has been written about this tour here (in fact I do not recall reading about it anywhere else BUT here) so I will not go into details. Suffice to say it was an unforgettable experience that was both fascinating and emotionally moving. The group was small, probably no more than 10 people, and was led by an American who was teaching at a university in Austria but who visits Rome often to "help out at the Vatican..." He was informative and possessed of a sense of humor, poking fun at the printed regulation on the entrance ticket that admonishes tour-goers not to interrupt the guide for any reason. I was surprised, actually, to be as moved as I was and several members of the tour became overcome with emotion at the end of the tour.

Separate note: Two American members of our tour group were scheduled to take a private Vatican Museum Tour later that day. They invited us to join the tour as apparently there was space but we declined because of the cost, about 480 Euro.
We ran into this couple by chance at the Borghese Gallery the following day and they gushed about how fabulous the experience had been to be in the Museums with so few people around. Their guide's first name was Helen Donegan and I see that she has been mentioned here.


After the Scavi tour, we visited the tomb of John Paul II before heading into the Basilica. From the Scavi tour, you can access the Basilica without standing on the line that had begun to form outside by 11am or thereabouts. (This is contrary to what I believe I read on this site in the past.)

After St. Peter's, our next destination was the food market on Via Andrea Doria. So we set off along the perimeter of the Vatican to the Museum entrance, a walk of about 15 minutes. This large market is accessible by descending a flight of steps across the street from the entrance to the Vatican Museums, where there was no entrance line visible on the morning we walked by. Walk down the steps and you will be on Via Tunisi. Continue straight for a few blocks; this may take a while as there are several food shops of interest along the way. One of these is located at #47-53 and has fresh meats and cheeses and a variety of grocery items. From my notes, I see that I paid 6.90 euro for two three-packs of Callipo tuna packed in olive oil and one bag of farro. {The same tuna costs me $4.49 for a three-pack of small cans at home in NYC. I do realize that this is of interest to no one except myself so read on, please}.

By the time we reached the Via Andrea Doria and the market itself, it had begun to rain. Curiously, when I am shopping the rain drops appear to avoid me but my partner was getting damp and because he does not share my ineterest in sniffing out the best quality-price ratio on the dried procini, my time was more limited here than I had planned.

We spent about 40 minutes walking several blocks of the market, which stretches along the Via Andrea Doria. We saw no other tourists and a few of the vendors appeared surprised to spot such obvious non-residents at the market. This being January, highlights included artichokes, Sicilian blood oranges, puntarelle, and cardoons...all of which I love. Prices for dried porcini vary a great deal within the city; part of the price differential, of course, is the quality of the mushrooms (how intact they are) and their origin. At the market stall where I bought a bag (10 Euro for what I estimate is 250 gms) I was given a tutorial as to the difference between Calabrian and Tuscan porcini which stressed the superiority of the latter. Unfortunately, I could understand every three words.

For anyone interested in buying dried porcini in the US, this web site has some of the best prices I have seen; the porcini are from France and sell for $28 per pound.


http://www.1800gourmet.com/Product.aspx?ct=92&pid=3223

Looking at all this food was making us hungry, so we hopped into a taxi at the stand a few blocks north of via Tunisi, headed back to the hotel to drop off the farro and the tuna fish, and made our way across the Piazza to Armando al Pantheon....

More soon....

Although Da Armando al Pantheon sits smack in the center of the most touristed part of Rome, it feels very much like a local trattoria and was, in fact, packed mostly with what appeared to be local diners on the two occasions we ate here last week. Located a few steps from the Pantheon and a few additional steps from the hotel, it was a welcome beacon on what had become a fairly dreary day by early afternoon. Armando's, a SlowFood selection, is a tiny and cozy one-room restaurant run by a pair of brothers, sons of the original owner. Arriving towards the end of the lunch hours, we were lucky to nab the last empty table. (From here on, I vowed to make reservations for the rest of the week's Roman meals, a promise I kept with one dinner exception).

At the back of the restaurant there is a display of antipasti including seasonal dishes such as the artichokes and puntarella mentioned earlier. {Interesting fact: On the few occasions when I bought and served this green in a salad, I sliced in across the leaves. Wrong, wrong! In Rome it is sliced thinkly lengthwise and left to sit in a bath of ice water to curl up the leaves for presentation. Imagine..I learned something interesting and important within a minute of taking my seat!} Here lies another MUST: Take a look at the antipasti selection, if there is one, before you order. {Equally important, take a look at what others are eating..more on this in a few days}

On to lunch:

Antipasti:


Artichoke alla Romana. A smash hit that would prove to be the best version I sampled, and I sampled quite a few in one week. (The variations in this one simple dish are staggering, and I am not talking about Artichokes alla Giudia which is an entirely different, fried, preparation (I also sampled that a few times!!). A fabulous "stop-all-conversation-and-concentrate-on what-is-in-your-mouth dish."

Primi:

Farro. ( I am a big fan of this once-maligned historic grain, (emmer in English), and make it often at home. I had thought it to be a specialty of the Garafagnana around Lucca and also of Umbria and was a bit surprised to see it on the menu here. In addition to the farro soup, farro makes an appearance on Armando's menu as a "Polpette" with a Gorgonzola sauce.) My farro is pretty good, if I may say so myself, but of course Armando's puts me to shame. Another four-star success.

Stracciatella. Excellent classic soup with eggs.

Secondi:

Abacchio a Scottadito. Delicious Roman specialty. Deliciously oily baby lamb chops that "burn your fingers" straight off the grill.

Grilled Scamorza. We had this as a main course although it is probably more of a primi. What can I say? The best melted cheese you've ever eaten. I have only enjoyed this previously in a slightly fancier preparation at a restaurant in the Bronx, New York..maybe Eloise or Franco can tell us if it is a specialty of Rome..(??) It is not too dissimilar to a grilled cheese dish (provoleta) popular in Argentina so perhaps its origin is more Southern Italian. Enough debating..it was luscious!!

With a bottle of water, cover, and a half liter of the house wine, the bill for lunch was 49 Euro.

After lunch one of us retired to the room for a rest while ekscrunchy made a beeline to the Rome branch of the celebrated Florentine pharmacy, Santa Maria Novella.

More on my shopping expedition, and on dinner at Matricianella, soon.

Let's see, tuna fish or Armando's for dinner................ Great choice!! But please don't tell me the tuna fish is for the cats in "cat park", LOL!

Excellent report, ekscrunchy!

We will be in Rome in March and will be taking both the Scavi tour and the private tour with Helen Donegan. Did the couple mention anything specific about their tour with her? Was it the after-hours tour of the Sistine Chapel? There is very little information on this tour, and I would appreciate any insight.

Liz

Piu, piu per favore!

The tour they took included the Sistine chapel. I believe it started at 4pm on a Monday. She said there were more guards than tour-goers. She had a knee issue and went through in a wheelchair with the result that the others in the group went on faster than she did and she was left alone, with the guards, in the Sistine chapel for a few memorable minutes.

Dcd..I am not THAT crazy. (I do realize how the whole issue of buying tuna fish in Italy must read...you most definitely do NOT want to know about my earlier trips to Spain and the shattered glass jar in my hand luggage...) How did you guess I took a tour of the Argentina cat sanctuary (given every day at 4pm) ? I probably walked down there every night to take a look from the street. But they would get ShopRite brand, not Callipo!! And certainly not AS do Mar. (More on this brand of tuna later in the week; try to be patient for now......)

Thanks for reading! More soon.

ek, grilled scamorza (or melted mozzarella, as well) is a specialty of the Abruzzo region, not of Rome, but there are many Abruzzesi in Rome...
So sorry that I won't be able to follow for the next few days (leaving for a short trip), but when coming home, I'll have all the more to read, and I'm looking forward to it!

Thank you, Franco. I was sure that you would know the details. The grilled scamorza is an example of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. I tried to make a rendition once at home and it was a disaster. I put it in the oven for a few minutes, hoping to serve alongside roasted red peppers and black olives, and all I had was a liquid mess in my pan. I will have to dig up a recipe..perhaps it is coated with a light dusting of flour and done on top of the stove.

I look forward to corresponding with you when you get back..perhaps the report will be finished by then; if not, I will be laden with guilt!

Paying attention to this! We are going to Rome for our first time in April, so I'm reading this with great interest. Thank you.

-Bill

Thanks to everyone who posted comments; that is very gratifying. When I re-read the thread so far I found quite a few typing errors so I apologize. In the reference to the salad green, puntarella, at Armando's, it should read that the leaves were "thinly" sliced before being placed in an ice-water bath.

I will get back to this very soon....hope you are all hungry!

After lunch on Monday, our first full day in Rome, I walked the few short blocks from the Senato to the local outpost of the famed Florentine pharmacy, Farmacia Santa Maria Novella. While not as spectacular as the historic Florence original, the Rome branch, located on Corso Rinascimento north of Corso Vittorio Emmanuele, is a handsome small space, fitted with wooden cabinets brimming with all of the famous soaps, potpourris, remedies, and potions. For more on specific SMN products and some background on the place, see this thread which deals with the original Florence branch:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34736124

Unlike the usual situation in Florence, where there is often a long line of supplicants, the Rome shop was empty of customers on the afternoon I visited. The two ladies minding the store could not have been any kinder and more friendly. This time I had an idea of what I wanted (needed??) but had an animated discussion about which of their face creams I should buy, which entailed much dabbing, delicately sniffing, and commenting on the various possibilities. (I ended up with Idralia and the F cream, among other items).

One thing I was unprepared for were the prices. I completed an extensive shopping foray in the Florence store last January and, looking back on my report, I can see that the prices a year ago in Florence, and those today in Rome, are quite different. Instead of 22 E for a jar of face cream, I paid 38.50 in Rome. My questions is: Did prices go up THAT much in a year, or are the prices in Rome substantially higher? I would have put this question to the ladies at the store but I was in such a state of near ecstasy being there that it slipped my mind. One thing to keep in mind, of course, is that if you spend over a fixed amount in one store, I believe the current figure is 155 Euro, you will get a nice percentage refunded to you when you take the products out of the country. Make sure to ask for the relevant Detaxe papers when you make your purchase. And make sure to have the items available to present at the Detaxe desk when you depart.

After an hour (this shop invites lingering), I trudged back to the hotel, lugging two shopping bags filled with creams, candles and soaps including a small gift from the lovely salesperson.

While we are on the subject of shopping, here is something else I learned that week in Rome:
One of the many attractions of traveling to Italy in January is to partake of the countrywide sales on clothing and shoes and other items. Unfortunately, it is often difficult to ascertain the exact start date of these sales far enough in advance to incorporate into your travel plans; each local government sets its own start date and these can vary throughout the country. It can be sale time in Florence but not in Rome, for example. When we arrived in Rome, we were dismayed to see store windows empty of the huge "Saldi" and "Sconti" banners that announce sale time. We became more dismayed to learn that the sales would not start until the 13th, the day before we were to fly home. When I confided this disappointment to the salesladies in the SMN store, they gave me a tip. Although the sales do not OFFICIALLY begin until the offical start date, virtually all shops will apply the sale price to a customer who asks for it, beginnning sometime after Christmas. There is no need to fight the crowds (oh, yes, there are crowds..more on this later in the week..) during the "official" sales. Just ask for a discount and it will magically be granted. THIS is the kind of shopping advice I want to hear!

After a short rest back at the hotel, we set of about 7pm for a meandering walk through the bustling streets to our dinner destination (reserved earlier that day), Matracianella.

Dinner will be served shortly!

Here is the address of the Farmacia Santa Maria Novella shop in Rome, one of 10 branches in Italy; all of the products are manufactured in their labs near the Florence shop:

Corso del Rinascimento, 47 00186, Roma

You bring back many wonderful memories in this beautiful trip report, ekscrunchy. I had that same grilled cheese back in Ocotber in Armando. I LOVE that restaurant.

Hey EK! We just got back last night, and I'm still in a fog. Love your report so far as mine will not have the food emphasis. Look forward to reading more.

Thanks for responding about the Sistine Chapel tour... and I am continuing to enjoy this report!

Liz

Hey Sandi!!! Glad you are home safe and sound. Can't wait to read your report once you get settled. Stay tuned!!!

Hi, ek, I'm enjoying this. How wrong you are when you think nobody would be interested in the tuna! I brought back Rio Mare tuna in olive oil last March, and it was so good, I brought back more when I was just there after Christmas. Italian tuna IS different! And better. So do tell...have you had Rio Mare and is Callipo better? Enquiring minds what to know!

Also, do you know if the market on Via Andrea Doria is every day? Thanks, and looking forward to the rest.

SusanP..I am not certain but my guess would be that the market there is a daily event; not on Sundays, I imagine. If I am thinking of the same brand, Rio Mar is less expensive than Callipo and is sold in supermarkets. Honestly, all the Italian and Spanish ones packed in olive oil are great. I am partial now to the As Do Mar..I think the chunks are larger and less chopped up than the Callipo. On the can it says "trancio entero," which I would guess means whole slices. Flott from Sicily is another popular one. Sometimes the better grades from the same brand are sold in the glass jars but as I said, I have sworn off bringing the jars back after my bad experience in Spain when one of the Ortiz (probably my favorite brand of all) jars broke and the oil began dripping out onto the floor while I was going through passport control. Can you imagine how many times I washed by carry on bag to erase the smell? So far my vow to eschew the glass jars is holding but it is one day at a time!! I LOVE talking about this stuff...sorry if I go on and on.....

Susan:

See this for more on As do Mar:


http://tinyurl.com/3dvxxy

I just found your trip report - great details of which I'm thoroughly enjoying. Congrats on landing a great price on your stay at del Senato (one of my favorite hotels!)

DFM: Glad you are enjoying! That hotel is a gem!! Did you know they have a sister hotel which is much less expensive but not as well located, the Hotel Raffaello?

http://www.hotelraffaello.it/

More on the tuna, to prove there are persons much further gone than I am:

http://blog.red-bean.com/sussman/?p=9

I did buy the Rio Mare at the grocery store. After reading that article, now I suppose I have to find the As Do Mare! I assume you're going to tell me where I can get it? Following the link at the end to the "tuna prosciutto," that sounds wonderful as well, but $37 a pound!

ekscrunchy,

I have another question-- this time about the SMN store. We will be there in March, and I want to be aware of the "etiquette" for shopping there.

I have searched for posts here and looked at various websites... we are most interested in the candles, soaps, potpourri (and associated holders), and hand cream.

First, do you have approximate prices for the items mentioned above? I have found the USA prices at the NYC stores, but understand the Italian prices are lower.

Second, how exactly does it work? Do we only smell the scents at the front counter? How do we know what is for sale before heading to the counter?

Sorry for all of the questions. Neither of us speaks Italian except for the very basic phrases, and I never want to be the "ugly American."

Thanks. Liz

Liz, first tell me which SMN you will be visiting..in Florence or in Rome? There are not really any samples out..you need to have an idea of what you want before you go.

We will be in Rome, Florence and Venice, but I am assuming we should visit the SMN in Florence, correct?

I think I know what I want but will need to decide on the soap and candle scents prior to purchase...

Susan: As do Mar is a pretty popular brand; I am sure there are many sources but I found it at the supermarket on Corso Vittoria Emmanuele to the east of Largo Argentina; I am sorry I don't have the name handy but will post it if I find the slip. There are not really any supermarkets in the historic center of Rome that I could find apart from that one and a small one (open non-stop daily) on a street leading west from Piazza della Rotunda, Via dei Giustiniani. The latter market was smaller than the Corso one but neither are really terrific as far as buying the type of stuff I llike to bring home with me. I would keep my eyes peeled in the smaller alimentari for that brand if you want to try it. It is imported into the US but the prices are, of course, quite a bit higher. The smaller stores are a lot more fun. In most of them, they dole out portions of tuna from a huge open can so you can buy what you like; I see Callipo used a lot in this manner. Whew, just writing this is making me think of all the great stuff I did NOT bring home; I was a lot more circumspect regarding the meat issue than in the past.

According to Cadogan Rome guide, the Via Andrea Doria market is open Monday through Saturday until 1pm.

Thanks, I'll check it out. There is also a supermercato on Via Monterone, just east of Piazza Navona off Corso Vittorio Emmanuele. That's where I got the Rio Mare, among other things.

Ek, This is terrific - please, please continue soon!

Ek-Loving your report! As a foodie myself, I appreciate all the details. I've been dying to go back to Rome and spend an entire week there so this just whets my appetite!

Matricianella, a SlowFood pick, sits on a narrow street close to San Lorenzo in Lucina. I would guess that its tucked away location keeps it off the radar of many tourists, depite the attention heaped by the domestic and foreign press. Accolades and magazine and newspaper articles line the walls of the three rooms that comprise the restaurant; in good weather there are also tables outside.

Our meal here, the first of two that week, exemplified the differences in staff attention directed at first timers versus repeat diners. We were waited on by a young man who was attentive and friendly enough; the next table, obviously not first timers, were attended by this man aas well as by a senior staffer. It was fascinating to overhear the discussion that led up to the actual order taking. Questions were asked about what kind of mood the diners were in,what they felt like having. There were debates about what was best tonight, what had not been up to par on past dinners, and on and on. Truly this was fabulous to overhear even if I did not get the entire jest. To me it illustrates the benefits of patronizing a few good places and becoming known to the staff, rather than bobbing all over town in search of the one "perfect" place. (Something I tend to be guilty of....)
This was brought home to me even more stronly later in the week at lunch at Da Nerone.

Ok, back to the plate here. Most of the diners appeared to be locals, although I think that tourists are often placed in the last of the three rooms. We were in the middle room.

Building a restaurant list for my next visit from your suggestions . . .

And yes, frequenting the same places does garner a different kind of experience. On my last trip to Rome, I was recognized by waiters at two different restaurants that I've visited on a few previous trips. No, not by name, just by face--a second glance and "Oh! Welcome back" and then received another level of service and cameraderie.

sorry, hit the wrong button.....

Anyway, we were in the center room. Matricinella is a handsome place plastered with, as I said, lots of articles and awards. The wine list is..well, there is no other way to describe it but to say it is a tome. A fabulous document that merits lots of time. {Note: We ordered the house wine; this is the usual policy of my travel partner}

I am dawdling a bit before getting down to the meal. Here is what we ate; you can see that we did not follow the traditional progression of courses (one of us was rather full from lunch):

Spaghetti with truffles..excellent (15 Euro)
Pasta special (Bucatini alla Amatriciana, with tomatoes, onions, guanciale (pork cheeks) red pepper flakes, a specialty of the Lazio town of Amatrice and a staple on many Roman menus) Excellent, if a bit heavy on the peperoncini for my partner...

The restaurant is famed for its fritti so we followed with a pair of plates:

Carciofi all Giudia..a perfect rendition of this fried artichoke

Fried polpetti..fried meatballs. These were dry and disappointing. I have never had this dish before so it may well be an impeccable rendition. I had seen a great-looking meatball dish pass by en route to another table; upon further investigation I learned that this is not a fritti but a meatball/arugula dish. I would order this next time.

I glass passito di Pantelleria

This is the one invoice that I cannot find so I have to guess that this light dinner cost in the range of 50 Euro for two of us. I have to withold comment about the restaurant until the next time. (We thought it was promising enough that we reserved a table for our last night, a Saturday.) Again, our experience perhaps illustrated the benefits of being a regular and being able to discuss the menu knowledgeably with the staff before ordering.

Another point (more on this later) brought home to me was: ORDER THE SPECIALS. For my secondi of our second dinner here, I strayed from this advice despite the urging of the waiter and was very sorry.... The pasta on the specials list (usually a piece of paper attached to the menu) is often house made while the other pastas may not be. If you look around you, you will often notice that the regulars will be eating the specials. Often they order without consulting a menu and, instead, relying on the advice of the waiter or owner. This is a very prudent policy to follow for first timers and especially once you have become familiar with a place.

After dinner we stopped for a gelato at Gelateria della Palma, near the hotel. (There are several branches of this great ice cream shop in the city)

(It would not be until the following night, at Trattoria Monti, that I discovered the ultimate gelato flavor combination which would become my very own signature cone on subsequent nights...you have to stay tuned to learn what it is...)

Thus sated, we waddled back to the Senato.

More soon...........tomorrow: Borghese Gallery; a pizza lunch; dinner at Trattoria Monti.

Excellent trip report so far! I'm really enjoying the in-depth restaurant comments as well as the great tidbit about a SMN branch in Rome. I had no idea, but I'm taking notes on all of this for my trip to Rome next May.

This is great, EK. I am also taking notes for our first trip to Rome in June.

Da Armando al Pantheon! This was the restaurant my sister and I went to, and I couldn't remember the name for my trip report a couple of years ago. You are a lifesaver. I had the lamb chops. Yum. And they were so nice to us.

Great report. It's nice to see Rome through the eyes of a serious foodie. (I am only semi-serious.)

How did you discover all the great restaurants? Our experience with food in Rome was quite different from yours (not in a good way) and I THOUGHT I had done my homework.

i love your review so far. please keep on going!

Ekscrunchy...

I am just "eating up" your report!

Love all the restaurant and meal descriptions...these will certainly help me with my planning for my week in Rome in December 2007!

Can't wait for the next installment!

bookmarking.. great information

Thanks again.

Missypie, I do lots of reading and asking around when planning where to eat. I got lots of help on the internet and from New York Times and magazine articles, and most important, from the SlowFood guide. That is only in Italian now but it is not hard to muddle through if you can read the names of the dishes and have some vague idea of Italain. For some of these I double checked guidebooks such as TimeOut and Cadogan. I am curious which sources YOU used for planning that led to less than satisfactory meals. And where were those meals? It is always good to know! (This will be helpful for next time!)

The next morning, Tuesday, we had reservations for the 11am-1pm time slot at the Borghese Gallery. I had somehow managed to miss the Borghese on previous visits to the city. What an oversight! I booked the reservation on-line about two weeks in advance of our arrival. The process is simple and straighforward.

http://www.galleriaborghese.it/borghese/en/einfo.htm

We took (another) taxi to the entrance of the park nearest the gallery, arriving about a half hour early.
You can wander through the gallery alone, with an audio guide, or with a "real live" guide. The price (5 Euro per person; separate from the admission and bookings fees) is the same for either type of guide. Although audio guides in many places are excellent, I like to be able to ask questions, so we chose the human variety.

There were only two other visitors in our group so we had what was essentially a private tour with a very learned young man who shepharded us through the Galleries with special attention to the Berninis. Something about the Borghese reminded me of the Frick in New York; although the space is grand, it feels easily accessible to the visitor. There is so much beauty arrayed here that 2 hours is barely enough to get anything more than a broad overview. The interiors alone, even if the rooms had been empty, are worth the price of admission. This is a must-see and a place I will re-visit on subsequent trips, perhaps with the audio guide next time. Thrilling.

After exiting the musuem at 1pm, we ambled through the gardens and down the steps and through the Spagna metro station, exiting on the Piazza de Spagna. Since we were booked at Trattoria Monti that evening, we decided to forego a large lunch. {Note: the money changing office facing you and to your right if your back is at the Steps offered the best rate on US Dollars that we found in the city center; the difference between the rate here and the rate at an office near our hotel was 10% and there is no commission}

We walked north along Via Babuino, window shopping. I stopped into the Prada Sport store to try on a pair of shoes and was offered the discount by the saleswoman even though the official sales had not yet begun (The shoes did not fit)

We stopped at Piazza del Popolo and took a seat to admire this beautiful square. Skip this next few lines if you are not a dedicated food shopper......Continue north through the Piazza, walk under the arch, and you will find yourself on Via Flaminia. Along this historic thoroughfare, once a principal entry point into the city, and on the adjacent side streets you can find excellent tourist-free shopping for all manner of foodstuffs in a variety of alimentari. (The famous one is Castroni at #29/30 but there are many others) I did some extensive purchasing on a prior trip and reluctantly passed up the chance to re-visit due to lack of time...

We had intended to visit the Santa Maria del Popolo church but due to ekscrunchy's poor reading of the guidebook (I had this church confused with the "twin" Santa Maria churches which close for lunch), we missed this important church and its treasures. Yet another to add to the long list of reasons to return soon.

Turning south, believing that the church was closed for lunch, we wandered south along Via di Ripetta. We considered having lunch at Buca di Ripetta at #36, which we had enjoyed on our last visit; this is one of a few inviting looking trattorie on this ineteresting street. (There is another good one a few steps away, Trattoria Al Gran Sasso).

However tempted, we trudged onward to Buccone. Run by the Buccone brothers and tucked into a 17th century palazzo, this enoteca had been a favorite from previous visits. You could spend an hour here just admiring the selection of wines arranged by region of origin. Buccone also serves light lunches at tables in the rear. Not wanting to burden myself with heavy bags for the walk home, I limited my purchases to one bottle of inexpensive Orvieto amabile (I believe that this is the original style of wine from Orvieto and that the dryer version came about more recently in response to international markets; this may or may not be true, I remember reading it someplace and did not investigate; I wanted to try the wine) and a well-priced bottle of olive oil with truffles. Unlike most "truffle oils," which are often truffle-infused grapeseed oil, this one actually has large pieces of black truffles floating in the extra virgin olive oil. Here again, vigilance paid off; I inspected the bottles on the shelf and sure, enough, the ones in front bore the 2005 harvest date (a year old!). Digging further brought forward a bottle of 2006 oil which I bought for about 10 Euro. This was the producer; the site is under construction):


www.collinatoscana.com


I also priced the traditional balsamic vinegar and found the price of 80 Euro for the gold-cap Modena extravecchio to be the lowest of all the vendors I found in the historic district. The prices varied a great deal from shop to shop. (Similar to this but not from Leonardi):

http://www.straubs.com/product.html?id=88&catId=60

Some information on balsamico:


http://www.avantisavoia.com/index.cfm/m/30/fuseAction/contentpage.main/detailID/41

Rather reluctantly, I passed up the vinegar and, instead, set out in serach of a snack a few doors south at a one of several Rome branches of the ever-popular Pizza Re. This is a large, bustling Neopolitan-style pizzeria at Via di Ripetta, #14, a few blocks south of the Piazza del Popolo. Their salads are good but the pizza is the thing here, of course. The menu lists more than 2 dozen varieties but we stuck with a simple 7.50 euro Margherita. I've never had pizza anywhere else in Rome, so cannot compare. I have visited Pizza Re several times and have never been disappointed with the food. (The service can be scattered at busy lunchtimes when the marble topped tables are jammed with workers and students from nearby establishments; just be patient). {Although Via di Ripetta is located just west of the upscale Tridente shopping zone, it is a refreshingly Prada-free thoroughfare with quite a few options for good eating.}

ek,
I have a question about enotecas. When we visit Rome in April we will be looking for olive oils to bring home. Would enotecas be a good place to look? Any suggestions or ideas on other places to look would be appreciated. Thanks again for your detail-laden report. I am really enjoying it.

-Bill

So EK, since you can't carry on that precious cargo did you just bubble wrap it and put it in the checked luggage I assume? Hopefully it all made it home ok.

Sandi, I did put it in the checked luggage. I brought a bunch of bubble wrap with me and a good thing, too, because while the shop owner wrapped it for me in a makeshift cardboard wrapping, I felt a lot safer with my own bubble wrap. I even brought two bottles of wine home with me that way; I could not bear to leave them behind in the hotel!

Bill, Yes, I would look in the enotecas, which often also have a good selection of bottled and canned food products. Along with Buccone, there is a wonderful enoteca on Via dei Prefetti at #15: Enoteca al Parlamento. There are so many good ones that you could spend days going from one to the other. And many if not most of them appear to offer some kind of snacks. Another food store/wine shop that gets tons of press is Roscioli, a beautiful shop on the south side of Campo dei Fiore.

Hi ek, loving your report (and thinking about mine which hasn't been written yet) and still thinking it's funny that we stayed in the same room! (Interesting that the price difference between Christmas and January was 85 Euro. Gulp!)

I have to add that we used the Senato's limo service and the drivers didn't say a word to us, so I think I'll try Rome Shuttle next time!

I definitely second the advice to make reservations if food is important to you. We didn't make a reservation for the last night and had trouble finding a place.

Franco:

Sorry, I just returned to this thread after a few days and just now saw your note to me.

Our meal at Sora Lella was excellent. I'll have to get out my notes and give you details, but I remember I had the menù degustazione and it was divine.

We also ate amazingly well at some little out-of-the-way places in Umbria. If i ever get around to it, I'll post a trip report and my pix (which include photos of just about every plate of food we ordered).

A few days before departing the US, I e-mailed the Senato and asked them to book a table for me for Tuesday night at Trattoria Monti. This restaurant, owned by a family from Le Marche, specializes in the food of that region and has gotten much publicity over the years as an off-the-beaten track find with a great price-value ratio. Given the recent articles in the US press about it, I was a little worried that it has devolved into a tourist "scene."

We easily found a taxi right outside the hotel (there was often one cab waiting there although the stand is across the piazza). As soon as I told the driver the street, Via San Vito, he asked me if this was near Santa Maria Maggiore. Of course I did not know and had to fumble for my map (Note: I would recommend carrying a map even if you will only be venturing out by taxi for a meal). Yes, it was near the basilica (and in fact, the mosaics are lit at night and you can view them from the street) so off we drove. We had a bit of confusion finding the street but in due time, entered the trattoria and my hesitancy was quickly dispelled. Since it was only 8pm, the place was almost empty. This situation would quickly change and throughout the night, group after group of hopeful diners (virtually all Italian) would peek in and request a table, only to be turned away. One (non-Italian) woman protested upon hearing this unwelcome news, "But we took a taxi all the way here!!!" Well, I have news for you, lady. Next time, before you hop into a taxi and trek across a few neighborhoods, you might think of calling the restaurant first to reserve a table.

The restaurant is comprised of two adjoining pastel-walled rooms. Lighting is very good and contemporary art adorns the walls. Tables wear white starched cloths and the overall air is more upscale than the "typical" Roman trattoria. {Of course the food here is, as I wrote, not Roman but from Le Marche.}

The welcome here was very warm and the food was, with one exception, superb. I have to take a short break now (dinner tonight will fall far short, I fear!!) and will come back with details of the meal......

This was our meal at Trattoria Monti, Via San Vito,
13/a:

(please excuse the spelling errors, especially in the Italian):

Flan de Cipolle Rosse con Crema di Gorgonzola.
"Wow!" is the note scribbled on my little writing pad. I read somewhere that the chef uses a particular type of red onion for this dish. A perfect example of taking a few simple ingredients and creating something the far exceeds the sum of its parts. This was a mound of beautifully browned onions with a slight char that had been pressed into a flan dish, extracted, and set in a pool of light sauce with a Gorgonzola base. One of the best dishes of the week. Prize to anyone who can provide a recipe for a similar dish. Thanks to anyone who can tell me the origin of this type of dish..(Franco?? Eloise??)

Tagliatelle with porcini. This long pasta dish was disappointing and I am not sure why; lack of salt, perhaps. It tasted flat to me. The mushrooms were dried and I think these are best used not as a main feature of a dish but as a compliment for flavoring.

Special of rigatoni with tomato and broccoli sauce. Wonderful. The broccoli florets were chopped into tiny pieces and incorporated into the tomato sauce long enough to be fully cooked and lose their bright color. Lovely.

Eggplant parmesan. There are a lot of vegetable dishes on the menu so we figured that this might be a good choice and it was. One of the best renditions I've ever had. Individual portion served in a gratin dish with a wonderful char on top; they must have passed it through the broiler at the end. Wonderful.

Dessert, shared: Special of Amaretto ice cream slathered with dark chocolate sauce. I am still salivating when I think of this dish. And THAT would be my signature gelato combination for the rest of the week: Amaretti with chocolate.

Carafe of house Verdicchio (DOC) from Le Marche.

With water, cover/bread....54 Euro.

Even with the slip on the pasta, an excellent meal.

By the time we left, the place was packed to the rafters; I think there was one table of tourists and the rest of the diners appeared to be Italians.

We walked towards the taxi stand a few blocks away, passing the famous Agata e Romeo Restaurant and, outside a nondescript apartment building, this was scribbled in large letters in chalk on the sidewalk, facing the building so that the person who exited the door would see it at their feet:

Buon giorno principessa,
Si mi doni il tuo cuore,
Ti daro il mondo.

Well, I just thought that was THE most romantic thing I'd seen in a long time. With apologies for my erros in transciption and translation, it reads:

Good morning, princess
if you give me your heart,
I will give you the world.

With that thought, we popped into a taxi and sped back to the hotel.

Tomorrow..day trip to Orvieto.

{Regarding Orvieto. We did not book train tickets in advance since we did not want to be tied to a schedule. Late that afternoon, I had walked to Pantheon Travel, located a block from the hotel right off the Piazza della Minerva, and booked the tickets on the train next morning at 8:55. We booked one-way tickets, as the agent assured us we could buy the return with no problem at the Orvieto station and thus have flexibility on the time of return to Rome.
I learned that if you have tickets on an IC train and you miss the train, you can use your tickets on the next Ic or regional train; you only have to re-pay the 3 Euro reservation fee for the IC (Intercity; one of three types of Italian trains) train}

To be continued soon........

What an enjoyable trip report. Thanks so much for taking the time and effort. There are so many wonderful restaraunt and shopping tips that I am just going to print it out and take it with me in June. Ciao for now!

ekscrunchy,

After five days of great meals in a number of cities, my traveling companion sat back from his Red Onion Flan at Trattoria Monti and said, awestruck, "This is the best thing I've had all week!"

So many good, interesting choices on that menu--still it's hard not to order the onion flan each time . . .

So next time I'm there I'll know what to order as a first course.
I still remember that fabulous mango dessert I had there back in October. I can't really describe it, it was just divine fruit plus sauce and maybe cream? Wonderful place.

Thanks everyone. Ellen..I have to agree. I think it just might have been the best dish I ate all week and that is saying a lot.

Before I begin my small report on our time in Orvieto, here is a new book set in that town; I just noticed it in the bookstore but did not have time to really take a good look:


http://www.amazon.com/Lady-Palazzo-At-Home-Umbria/dp/1565124731/sr=8-1/qid=1169661005/ref=sr_1_1/002-4285746-0358430?ie=UTF8&s=books

Thank you so much for this fabulous report!

Now I will have to make time to enjoy some of your suggestions as well as my personal list of favorites this fall!

Yes, the report is wonderful and Yes, I love all the food facts, but I am blown away by the inscription on the sidewalk to "Principessa". So romantic!

Good job, eks!

Thank you for posting this fabulous and delicious report.

We use the same shuttle service and the drivers picking us up have taken the time to bring us to the keyhole or stop for photos. They are very kind and excellent drivers.

Ditirambo is one of our favorites, as is Settimios, just north of the Piazza Rotunda. For some reason we haven't tried Armando but have passed it many times.
Next trip we certainly will.

I'm taking notes about your other recommendations. We have referred to Maureen Fant's book in the past and now will add your list and comments.

The Farmacia branch in Rome is more expensive than the one in Florence. According to the woman helping us in Rome, it is the cost of "shipping" it to Rome that increases it.
This, however, certainly wouldn't account for the increase you experienced.

And the Borghese is still my favorite. We have been there 6 or 7 times because a trip to Rome doesn't seem complete without a visit to Bernini's masterpieces.

Oh, and thanks for the link to the porcini!

Looking forward to more.

Thanks to you both. Iloveitaly, that is most inteeresting about the SMN pricing. I was so thrilled to be in the store that I did not pay all that much attention to the prices until after the deed was done; of course a shopper's oblivion is aided by the fact that no prices are posted either on the products or on the product list available at the store. (At least I got some $$ back from the de-taxe) Almost double in one year from the Florence prices to the ones in Rome for the Idralia face cream. Hmmm.

I also like the Fant book although I always double check her recommendations with other sources. I used Sandra Gustafson on previous trips but do not really look at her book anymore although some of her recommendations are spot on...even after all this time.

Wednesday morning we took at taxi to Termini Station in time for the 8:55 train to Orvieto. The station is large but well laid out and easy to navigate. The price of the tickets, Rome-Orvieto, was 15 euro purchased at Pantheon Travel; Orvieto-Rome was 13 euro (2nd class) purchased on the spot at the Orvieto station. For the extra 2 euro it was well worth buying the outgoing tickets at the agency in order to avoid the long lines at the Termini ticket counters.

When we left Rome it was clear and sunny and it was interesting (and discouraging!) to see the climate change only a few minutes out of Rome. The train took a bit over an hour; regional trains (this was an IC train) take longer. It was overcast in Orvieto and colder than in Rome.

We arrived at Orvieto station and took the cable car up the cliff to the town. From there, a bus make the circuit to the main square of the historic center of Orvieto, stopping outside the Duomo. The cable car ticket includes the bus. The tourist office faces the Duomo and this was our first stop for a map and inquiries about which restaurants from my list were open that Wednesday. We were relieved to find that SlowFood (and Faith Willinger (Eating in Italy)) pick Trattoria dell' Orso was, indeed open. The tourist office is the place to buy tickets for the Duomo's San Brizio chapel and its delicious Renaissance frescoes. (The Duomo is free; the chapel requires a special ticket not sold on site)

It was well worth the train trip to see the amazing striped Duomo and the chapel; we spent some awed minutes here before heading out and into the heart of the town. Orvieto is much smaller than I had envisioned. Therre are quite a few pottery shops along the main street. Exiting the Duomo facing you off to the right a bit is a shop with very lovely hand-painted ceramics; we spent some time chatting with the daughter (in law?) of the owner-craftsman and were tempted but declined to buy in the end.

We wandered around for an hour or so before heading for the Osteria dell' Orso, located on a small street running off the Piazza della Repubblica.

back in time for lunch...

Trattoria dell'Orso is exactly the kind of restaurant I was looking for way back then. (See related post, which veers off slightly from its original line of questioning...)

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34895007

This trattoria, tucked into a small lane running off the Piazza della Repubblica, Via della Misericordia, 18-20. (phone. 0763-341642; closed Monday and Tuesday), consists of two deeply hued rooms adorned with interesting art. The restaurant is a labor of love for Gabriele, who does the cooking, and Ciro at the front of the house. We were the first diners inside that January day and were greeted enthusiastically by Ciro. He speaks some English. I don't recall a printed menu. We decided to put ourselves sinto his hands and were pleased with the results on the table. In between attending to the table, Ciro sat with us and chatted about his upcoming vacation in Brazil and various other things.

The restaurant is featured in a lovely book about Umbrian food that would be worth investigating:


www.appetiteforumbria.com

We will have to put this restaurant on our list of places to return for our time here was short due to the train schedules. By this time we had decided to take the 2pm train back to Rome rather than waiting until the 4pm train so we only had time for one course each. I had the spaghetti with truffles that I had been longing for. My long-suffering partner chose the cut pasta with a sauce of cinghiale, wild boar which I don't think is actually wild but that is another issue. (That sold in the US is certainly farmed) Both were excellent. Ciro tried mightily to get us to change our minds and stay for what promised to be a delicious guinea hen dish but with great difficulty, we tore ourselves away and rushed back to the Duomo to catch the bus and head back to Rome. I apolozige that, after all that agonizing, this is not much of a review of Trattoria dell Orso but suffice to say I would not have any trouble recommending this outpost of regional cuisine to anyone heading for Orvieto. Someday I will get to that faraone and whatever else Gabriele is cooking that day.

Cost: 2 pastas, wine, water, cover, coffee...33 Euro.

I forgot to write that the pasta with cinghiale sauce was excellent.

After lunch we scurried back to the station via bus and cable car and took the 2pm train back to Rome. When you exit Termini station, you will find many buses waiting in the piazza in front of you. We bought bus tickets inside the station (1 euro; good for transfer) and hopped on a #64 bus which took us to Largo Argentina in just a few minutes.

Largo Argentina is the site of a vast Sacred area filled with the largest expanse of fully excavated Republican ruins in Rome. It was discovered during the 1920s when the area was being cleared for a residential building project. Visible today are the remains of four temples as well as a 12th Century church built on the site whose walls bear beautiful frescoes. According to what we were told by our guide, this is the actual site of Julius Caesar's assassination. Largo Argentina today is the site of Rome's most famous animal sanctuary and its denizens..hundreds of cats, prowl the ruins and the grassy areas around them.

The story of Rome's abandoned cats is a sad one and tremndous credit goes to the people responsible for founding and running the shelter which sits at the bottom of the steps at the corner of Via del Torre Argentina and Via Florida. Free tours of the ruins begin from this point at 4pm daily and culminate with a visit to the sanctuary, where a donation is suggested.

For more information, see the web site:

www.romancats.com

I regret that we didn't go see the cats at Torre Largo Argentina (except from a distance)...it was a case of it being "too close to home." We were staying nearby, so we always passed by early in the morning or late at night.

Some of the cats at the Largo Argentina are "adoptable from a distance".

We have "adopted" Alcatraz, a beautiful, friendly kitty and stop in to visit him each trip.

You can also adopt one in reality and bring it home with you if you wish.

!!! We are paying 340 EUR in September at the Albergo del Senato for a superior double overlooking the Pantheon. But, everyone who has stayed there seems to love the hotel, so I am hoping it's worth it! Our other option was the Eden, which we were getting a good deal on for 348 EUR..but people seemed to have very negative reviews.

Ekscrunchy, thank you so much for your posts. I look forward to logging in every day to read about your adventures and all the great things (and great food) that are in store for me in September.

greene, you're not the only one who has noticed the wild fluctuations in the Senato's prices. We paid 310 Euro per night for room 603 during Christmas week but I just saw on Trip Advisor that someone stayed on the 6th floor w/Pantheon view the week before for only 160 Euro per night, and ekscrunchy had our room for 225 Euro in January. Timing is everything??

It was still worth every penny!!

Greene, that is really really expensive. I think the location is far better than the Eden, that is for certain.

Iluvitaly, I commend you for doing such a good deed. We went downstairs into the shelter after our tour and met a few of the feline residents who for various reasons (not acclimated; sickness or injury, etc) remain inside rather than out among the ruins. The sickening thing is that one of the cats outside was recently kidnapped with a snare around its neck by a band of beggars, according to the notice on the fences outside. The place really brings me to tears. Donations are requested and we complied but you obviously went a lot further.

Love the report!

Love the report too. Euro 350 a night for a hotel is too much! Lucy

Another day, another meal. Thanks, ekscrunchy.

ggreene, the only time I stayed at Del Senato I wasn't footing the bill. We stayed in a junior stuite with Pantheon view and I really liked it. Would I have liked it for 340E/night? That's another matter altogether. Ultimately, though, it depends on how much that money means to you. There certainly isn't a shortage of very nice hotels in Rome. Have you looked at anything other than the Eden, the Locarno and the Senato?

Leely,

We haven't looked at too many other places, because we got great reviews of the Senato and the Locarno, and we had the Starwood deal at the Eden. We have definitely decided against the Eden due to horrible reviews on tripadvisor and this forum. The Senato just sounds so amazing, but I agree, it seems like they quoted us a very, very high price. Maybe because they know it's for our honeymoon? Or because it's high season?

I think a hotel would have to rain chocolate cookies from the ceiling for me to like it at 340E/night. But I'm a cheapie!

Great location...hmm. What about the Minerve? What are they running for your dates?

Also search here for Rome hotels and see if anything appeals.

Greene, honestly I think that price is too high. Yes, you have the view, and the people are charming, as is the whole property. But you are not going to be sitting in your room staring at the view enough to warrant that high a price. And I am sure there are other hotels with lovely views of piazzas. Remember the rooms at the Senato are rather small. We paid 225 Euro and I thought it was high but worth it for the view. But you are talking about so much more than that...have you written to them directly and asked about the price?

It is hard to believe Greene can not find nice places cheaper in september. May be the dinner table brag value is playing a role in selection. Ekscrunchy your reports are as crunchy as your name. Keep them coming.

Thanks, Rhapsody..will get to the rest of Wednesday very soon...the more I write the more I long to be back in Rome!

Here is another related book, on the food of Rome; I don't own it but have heard the author speak and he sounds credible:




http://www.amazon.com/Cooking-Roman-Way-Authentic-Trattorias/dp/0060188928/sr=8-1/qid=1169903367/ref=sr_1_1/002-4285746-0358430?ie=UTF8&s=books

After the tour of the Torre Argentina site and a visit to the cat sanctuary, we wandered north towards the hotel, browsing in one or two of the food shops along Via di Torre Argentina. (These shops are very convenient to the Albergo del Senato; we would buy supplies here later in the week for an alfresco (yes, in mid-January!) picnic on the hotel rooftop; there is also a small alementari right on the Piazza della Rotunda)

By this time, I needed a jolt of energy. Happily, the world-famous Sant Eustachio cafe was just off our direct route back to the hotel on the piazza of the same name, so we stopped in for their celebrated Gran Caffe at the bar. I can't say I've ever had better coffee and we would pay a few more visits before the week was over. They also sell their coffee beans and various coffee-related candies and accoutrements.

When we finally made it back to the Senato, we realized that we had not made dinner reservations, thinking that the large lunch in Orvieto would suffice for the rest of the day. Not a chance. So about 7pm, I asked the front desk to phone a couple of places to reserve a table. No luck. Everyplace on my various lists that was within an easy walk of the hotel was booked until at least 9:30. That was just too late for us that night, so we accepted a recommendation with some trepidation from Luca at the front desk and he booked a table for us at the Sant Eustachio restaurant, not to be confused with the Cafe on the same small piazza.

The Ristorante Sant Eustachio (the address is Piazza del Caprettari, 63; adjacent to the Piazza Sant Eustachio) looked like the kind of place I would normally avoid. It was a bit too gussied up with white tablecloths and "decor." It is difficult to explain, it was just a feeling I had. Things began to look up when I noticed that most of the patrons at the other tables were speaking Italian. A number of the diners were wearing suits and appeared to be businessmen.

And on to the meal, which was quite decent:

The restaurant is known for its fritti, according to Luca at the Senato, who counseled us on what to order, so we obliged with an order of mixed vegetables and fried mozzarella. Crispy zucchini flowers and cheese were very good but the oil did not seem totally fresh to me.

Carciofi alla Romana. The waiter acted disappointed when I ordered this instead of the carciofi all Giudia, which is fried. So he brought me two artichokes, the Carciofi alla Giudia as a gift of the house. He was right; the artichoke alla Romana was so-so, not even close to the goodness of the one at Armando. But the artichoke alla Giudia? It was smashing! Excellent!

For main course, my companion chose vegetable soup, sopa de verdura which he pronounced as very good, and I agreed.

Spaghetti alle vongole. Spaghetti with the tiny clams, a dish often found on Roman restaurant menus, although I am not sure where the clams actually come from these days. Never mind whether or not they were vongole verace...the dish was excellent.

With the usual water, wine, and cover, the total came to 50 Euro. A place to keep in mind if you stay at the Senato and do not want to walk far. They have shaded tables on the piazza out front but these were not in use on the night we were there. Not wonderful but surprisingly good.

After dinner, we wandered through the streets to the historic Giolitti gelato and pastry cafe on via Ufizzi Vicario. And here I inagurated my new favorite flavor combination: Amaretti with chocolate. Be careful: the panna man has a fast hand and if you don't stop him he will slather your cone with fresh whipped cream. (I was not fast enough!) Giolitti is one of several excellent gelaterias near the Albergo del Senato. The others include Gelateria della Palma, which has a few outposts in Rome.

Tomorrow: Private forum tour with Sandi_Travelnut and her husband followed by lunch on gnocchi day.

The next morning at 9am, we joined Sandi and her husband, Michael for a private tour of the Palatine Hill and Forum with licensed guide Francesca Caruso.

chris.fra@mclink.it

This proved to be one of the highlights of our week.
Sandi has already given the details better than I can in her report. We had made several previous forays to the Forum, during which we wandered about clutching a guidebook, trying to make sense of what lay before us and, at times, straining to hear the commentary of other English-speaking guides.

This time, our experience was completely different. Francesca presented the Forum in context and, without spitting out a lot of dry facts and dates, she wove a spell of what life was like during the period.
I was sorry whe the tour ended, about 1pm. We paid half of the total cost, about 70 Euro, and it was well worth the price. Francesca is the leader of many of Rick Steves' tours in Rome and is highly qualified and personable. Her English is impeccable.

The day before, we had phoned for lunch reservations at Da Nerone so, after the conclusion of our tour, we walked from the Capitoline Hill, stopping to visit the tomb of the Unknown Soldier at the Victor Emmanuelle "wedding cake" monument, past the Colisseum and up the steps and to the Via della Terme di Tito, where Hostaria da Nerone has occuped #96 since 1929.

We were looking forward very much to sampling two dishes that we had enjoyed at two previous meals here a few years back. One of these was gnocchi, so we schduled our lunch for Thursday, the traditional gnocchi eating day in Rome. Da Nerone serves gnocchi two different ways, alla Romana and with a tomato and meat sauce, "al sugo."
The other dish that I had enjoyed twice in one week here was the spaghetti with clams.

These dishes would serve as our main course for this light lunch. Nerone features a long, two -tiered antipasti display from which I selected artichoke alla Romana for an appetizer.

I was disappointed with the artichoke. This was partly my fault, because noted to myself when I selected it that it looked just like the ones bathed in sufnlower oil and sold at many alimentari. (They are also easy to find here in the US at Italian food shops, as they are imported into the US in bulk) Sure enough, I tasted it and knew I had made a mistake in ordering.

En route back to the table from the washroom, I noticed two gentelmen seated before two sublimely delicious looking artichokes. Wait a minute!!! I immediately asked the waiter about them, only to be told that yes, my artichoke was indeed marinated in sunflower (girasole) oil and it was the one listed on the menu from the antipasti bar. The gentlemen were eating Carciofi all Diavola which is not on the menu and which is cooked in olive oil.

Another lesson was brought home to me: LOOK AROUND AT WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE EATING BEFORE YOU MAKE YOUR SELECTION. If you don't see something on the menu, ask. And do not necessarily think that the selections on the antipasti bar are the best things to eat before your meal.

The meal continued with the gnocchi al sugo, which my partner deemed not as good as he had remembered. And my spaghetti con vongole had far more clam shells than actual tiny clams, although it was tasty enough.

I am sorry to say I have to give a thumbs down to Da Nerone, although those artichokes all diavolo looked outrageous. Next time we will take our Thursday gnocchi, and all that goes with it, someplace else.

After lunch, we wandered back to the hotel where one of us opted for a rest and ekscrunchy set out for the bright lights of the Via Condotti and the Via Fontanella Borghese shopping areas.

Ooops. I totally goofed. Too much time has passed since my trip that I am forgetting one of the highlights of the trip.

At Da Nerone, I wanted to try the pajata that Franco had been enthusiastic about. So we ordered a half-portion (easy to do in most restaurants; another thing to keep in mind if you want to try many dishes) of Pasta with pajata. (For more on this see the discussion on the Rome: Easy Side Trips thread).

Pajata is the intestine of a suckling lamb and an example of the popular Roman dishes made from the "Fifth Quarter" that had their genesis in poverty; these were the bits of the animal not used in more sumptuous dishes. (Oxtail is another Roman example). The animal retains the mother's milk at the time of slaughter and this turns to a delicate cheese-like substance when cooked.

THIS DISH WAS WONDERFUL. Very delicate meat melded with the cheesey milk and served over a cut pasta in a tomato-based sauce. I loved it. Not in the least bit off-putting for the squeamish. One of the best dishes of the week and I don't know how I'd forgotten it momentarily.

If you want to read more on this, you have to scroll down in this thread:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34895007
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34895007

Lunch at Nerone cost 37 Euro with wine.

This report is exactly what I need for my trip....

Thanks and please keep posting..

Sudhin

Ek's posts are addictive and she is doling it out in little doses!

Ek, Your enthusiasm has convinced me. The next time I'm in Rome, I shall have pasta with pajata. That and coda alla vaccinara, thus doing my duty by the quinto quarto.

I'm sorry your lunch at Da Nerone was otherwise disappointing, but it confirms my own experience there. Maureen Fant, who lives near it, and other regulars may eat well there, but it seems to be an iffy proposition at best for the rest of us. Fortunately, there are many restaurants in Rome that have consistent standards for everyone.

bookmarking -- I love your restaurant information!

bookmarking ,

... plus we are headed there on Wednesday for a four day getaway... I will provide some more feedback on any experiences mentioned here plus others.

Ekscrunchy has done a wonderful job of sifting, sorting and tasting. We ,too, try to cross multiple sources of trusted info to avoid disappointment.

Viva Ekscrunchy, Italia, e SPQR !

Eloise you are right. Too many other places to investigate. And I cannot say I wasn't warned. I read a couple of less-than-positive comments on various food talk sites about Nerone. And when I told our Foro guide, Francesca, that we planned to have lunch there, she told me that she has not returned there due to a negative experience during a meal with Rick Steves, of all people. She told me that she felt the owners were less than forthcoming about the pricing on the antipasti "buffet."

Well, I heard "Rick Steves" and gave an inward shudder and pressed on. It turns out that I should have heeded her advice, but that is all in hindsight. Live and learn. Maureen Fant really plays it up in her book, which is where I read about the place years ago. Well, goodness, she lives in the neighborhood! Not that Nerone is awful. Not by any means. It is just as you said, there are so many really excellent places; I will not be returning. But that pajata was REALLY good!

1. GREAT report!

2. Bookmarking.

3. I'm going to Rome in October. When should I book the Scavi tour?

Grazie!

Monica

Try booking it now. I got the tickets a couple of weeks after I first contacted them but that was for January.

I am glad you enjoyed the report so far, Monica. I've long enjoyed your writing as well. Stay tuned...

Thanks. I just sent them a general email. I'm waiting to hear from a friend who might join me in Rome, but as soon as I know I'll book it!

Do you think it's a good idea to do both the Scavi tour and the Vatican museum in the same day?

Monica

The Scavi tour only takes 1.5 hours. You could take a lunch break between it and your Vatican tour. It's not an exhausting tour, not a bunch of walking.

Thanks for the information!

Monica

Hello ek, I'm back (what a silly sentence, everyone can see that I'm back...). I've spent considerable time on catching up with this wonderful report, and enjoyed it very much - this kind of detailed food report must be one of the greatest inventions ever made on Fodor's! I'm glad that you've loved pajata, and surprised that you didn't try it at Checchino, but who knows what's coming else? Maybe you've saved Checchino for a day towards the end of your week.
I'd just like to add two cents here and there:
- Castroni... theirs is the best risotto rice I ever came across - especially their Riso Carnaroli! I never come back home from Rome without a few packs...
- never heard of the cipolle rosse dish, sorry
- Orvieto: the wild boar, in Umbria, is certainly wild, no doubt
- Missing a recommended faraona dish in Umbria is a profound gastronomic error, sorry that I have to say that ... much as I love Rome, but having to choose between Umbrian faraona al salmì (for example) and two more hours in Rome, I take the faraona, that's a no-brainer for me. One of the truly great dishes of this planet...
- Sorry to learn about your S. Eustachio restaurant makeshift. Does that mean that even at Osteria dell'Angelo, there was no place available that night? Or didn't you have Angelo on your list (which would be a terrible pity, that's exactly your type of trattoria, and one of Rome's best, and most constant, kitchens anyway)? I'm asking because I've never had problems to get a table at Osteria dell'Angelo, and even without booking ahead I've never had to wait for more than 15 or 20 minutes.
- Finally, sorry that I have to correct a small detail: pajata is the intestine of suckling veal, not lamb.

I'm looking forward to the rest of the story!!

And St. Cirq, thank you for confirming that Sora Lella is still a great place - it would have been a pity if things had changed, though I couldn't quite imagine (the cook-owner is there for 30 or so years).

Franco, I know I am in the doghouse with you. Not only did I not make it to Checchino, but I also missed Osteria dell Angelo. I must seem like a terrible ingrate after all of the help you gave me. My feeble excuse is that on several nights we just did not want to take a taxi. Goodness, that IS a horrible excuse for missing all of that fabulous food that was waiting just within reach. I have no defense.

I knew when I did it that skipping the faraone in Orvieto was a mistake. Guilty again. I feel like a total washout right now.

On the veal/lamb issue, I was parroting what I had read, that pajata is traditionally made with veal but now is made with lamb due to the mad cow issue. No doubt that has all been resolved.

And again on the boar..another of my errors.

On the bright side, I hope certainly to return to Rome before too long. And you can look forward to a report soon on the coda which was greatly enjoyed closer to the Pantheon than I might have desired. So there it is.

On another bright side, I just took a book from the library that I think would interest you if you do not know it. It is the most impressive "La Terra Fortunata" by Fred Plotkin and is a well researched volume, with color photos, on Friuli-Venezia-Giulia.
Do you know this book, written by one of my countrymen who possesses a real fondness for the area. Unfortunately, and somewhat shockingly to me, it appears to be out of print but might be in the library or on a used book shelf somewhere.


On the cippole rossse dish note, I would have thought this was something from close to Tropea. Eloise has tracked down the recipe; I think it is posted above or on a related recent thread. (see "New Tuscan Cookbook" thread). I also found a Confettura di Cipolle Rosse in a book entitled "1,000 Italian Recipes" by Michele Scicolone.

So, Franco. My plea is "guilty as charged." Sentence should be remedial time in Rome and additional Italian regions. I may have to call Eloise to be my attorney and plead my case with you!

Be back soon...

Oh, ek, don't hope Eloise will defend you - I'm absolutely sure she will agree with the severe penalty I have for you:
go back to Rome soon, try more restaurants and specialties - and come back with a new great food & trip report like this one!!

Thanks ekscrunchy. I've made note of some of the places you tried and will be better armed with a nice list of places to dine and browse the next time I'm in Rome...whenever that may be!

Thank you for describing your trip in such luscious detail. Makes me want to take your restaurant list, go to Rome, and follow in your footsteps.

Eks - what a yummy report! I wish I'd tried more things now. But what I did try and loved beyond measure was our dinner at Osteria dell Angelo. It was perfect. And smelled good to boot! When I woke the next morning my hair smelled like the amazing bruschetta they'd grilled over the open fire.

My DD's favorite part were the big rugby guys who waited on us. She wanted to stay and have more wine without us! I've heard her tell the story of Osteria dell Angelo to several friends and each time they grow more handsome. But the food... I have no idea what anything was but all was delicious.

I absolutely love food reports (with some travel stuff thrown in between meals) -- thanks so much for doing all that hard work of eating all this food for us and reporting the details.

Franco, the guilty party accepts the punishment!

I am glad you are all enyoing; it was no trouble to do all the research at the restaurants (!!) Now I am even more annoyed that I skipped Angelo. I would love it if my hair smelled from the wood fire the next morning!
I vow to complete my sentence which involves a return to Rome in the specified amount of time.

ekscrunchy, I just came across your delicious report and want to let you know how much I'm enjoying it but I'm too hungry now to write more. I'll add it to my Italy file. Thanks!

ek, would you please share the doghouse with me? I was outright shocked when reading your statement about pajata di vitello o di abbacchio, and just had to research it, which was easy enough: I simply called Checchino ... and shame on me!, you are absolutely right: they are STILL doing it with pajata d'abbacchio. Incredible but true, the Italian Ministry of Health has not yet agreed pajata di vitello to return to commerce - though they have been promising it for years now. I could have sworn the problem has long been resolved, and in fact, last week, I've been in - guess where - right, in Venice, and talked to the barista at Al Volto about quinto quarto delicacies (yes, they have some in Venice, too, though they don't call it the quinto quarto, which is of course a Roman term) - and he, too, said with utmost conviction that pajata di vitello is back to Roman butcher shops.
Which is not entirely wrong, anyway: the guy at Checchino immediately said it IS being traded again, but not officially, and against the law, so they can't prepare at the restaurant (which he deeply regretted - no doubt he eats only pajata di vitello at home). And in the countryside, I've seen on Italian foodie forums, it has already returned to the restaurant menus, as well as to some not-so-famous Roman osterie (of course, only for the patrons...).
The point is that Roman pajata buffs despise pajata d'abbacchio for pasta sauces; they insist it's good only when grilled, but rigatoni con pajata MUST be made with pajata di vitello... unfortunately, I'm not able to judge myself, having eaten both types of pajata, but clearly not often enough.

So, if you, ek, or anybody would like to punish me, as well, by sending me on a Roman food-finding mission, I, too, would be willing to accept.

Well, well, Franco. Let me move over to make room in Chez Bow Bow!

I am impressed with your dedication to ferreting out the truth. Indeed, this calls for a return visit so we can try both types of pajata and make our comparisons. We will need to complete many tastings, by the way.

NOW, what about the wild boar/cinghiale issue? Are these really wild in the sense that they run around in the forests and are shot by hunters and then sold to restaurants?

In Spain, I was shocked to learn that the partridge which is a specialty of Toledo is, in fact, raised on farms nowdays!! And I only found that out when I asked the quesion of a cookbook author who was speaking here in New York to promote her new book on the foods of La Mancha.

What if not enough boar were shot that day? Would Tuscans or Umbrians not have it on the menus? I have no real idea about this but I do wonder.....and I know just who to put on the case now!!!

Thanks every so much for your great company here...

Wow, you folks just blow me away sometimes. I am almost making flight reservations back to Rome on the basis of this report alone.

Thank you!

Ok, I'm doing my best to make up for my recent embarassing mistakes: Italy consumes about 11650000 tons of wild boar meat per year (the figures, from a web research, are not perfectly up-to-date, but should still be approximately right), of which only 1650000 are "di allevamento italiano" (raised on farms), and 1500000 tons are imported (partly really wild, partly raised, no doubt). The nice rest of 8500000 tons is real Italian wild boar "di caccia", and the forests of East Umbria are full of cinghiali. I dare guessing that raised wild boar isn't being sold anywhere in Italy but in supermarkets, and no good restaurant or trattoria would buy any meat from any supermarket - they'd of course get it directly from their "cacciatore di fiducia", the huntsman in whom they trust.
This would be the moment to tell what I've learned in Venice, from the above-mentioned Al Volto barista, about meat quality and butchers in Italy, but I don't want to restart our how-far-do-we-manage-to-get-off-topic game...
Rather: I swear to be silent until ek presents us with the next installment - we're hungry for it!

...and yet, I'm violating my oath since I notice I haven't given a complete answer to the wild boar issue: how much the hunters may have shot that very day is not the problem - you'd be VERY unhappy if you had to eat wild boar shot the same day! Remember, this is about meat, not fish - meat has to be hanged for several days (ideally, for three weeks), and can be kept frozen without losing much quality for months. For wild animals, there are seasons (or rather, on the contrary, closed seasons) - for the rest of the year, you're eating frozen meat.
Italians are mad about hunting, not quite as mad as the French, but still mad enough. And btw of hunted wild animals and Roman food, the owner of Pommidoro (one of Rome's famous old osterie, still on my to-do-list, unfortunately) has a reputation for preparing only wild animals that he has shot himself.

Franco you continue to impress me. A bit more research and I will let you out of Chez Bow Wow. That is fascinating about the wild boar and I commend you for your diligent research. I am only sorry I did not tuck a few sausages into my luggage. ( I was very good this time...no meat at all)

Ok..here is the rest of the day on Thursday with emphasis on food...

After returning to the hotel for a moment, I walked to the Piazza della Minerva where the cheerful Bernini elephant sports an Egyptian obelisk on its back. I spent some time in Santa Maria Sopra Minerva which was built by the same architects as the Santa Maria Novella in Florence but conceals one of the rare Gothic interiors in Rome. This church, a bit off the typical first-time tourist track, contains treasures that include 15th Century frescoes by F. Lippi, Michaelangelo's "Christ Bearing the Cross," and the tomb of Fra Angelico.

I continued walking to the Campo dei Fiori, peered into the wonderful Norcia meat store, Viola, and strolled along Via di Governo Vecchio looking for Da Baffetto, reputed to offer some of Romes' finest pizza. (It was shut tight; perhaps they had not yet opened for the evening,) and peeked into Marmi, a shop piled high with alabaster obejcts and beautifully shaded fruit ranging from bananas to pomegranate carved from marble. Prices ranged from 13 to 25 euro per piece of fruit. This shop has several outposts in Rome:

www.marmiline.com

Then back to the Albergo del Senato to pick up my sidekick and back to Armando al Pantheon where we met Sandi and Michael for dinner at 8pm.

It felt good to be back in a place that we knew and the staff were so welcoming. Armando consists of one room and the atmosphere is homey and bustling.

This was our dinner during this second visit of the week:

Carciofi alla Romana...Best in Rome, second time

Spaghetti alla Carbonara. Wonderful dish typical of Rome; 1/2 order.

Faraone (guinea hen) with porcini and olives. This dish is a specialty of the chef, who follows an old Roman recipe. I wish I could enthuse about it but it was not among my favorite dishes. Tasty but the bird did not yield much meat. Franco I KNOW I should have ordered this in Umbria.

Coda alla Vaccinara. Here I raised my glass and made a silent toast to Eloise and Franco, who helped me so much in the planning of this food extravaganza. THE CODA WAS GREAT! Large sections of meaty oxtail in a rich, winey sauce. Not at all difficult to eat as the meat just fell off the bones like any great braised dish. It would also be amazing over a short cut pasta. One to try at home although I have little hope of coming close to the richness of flavor.

Just thinking about this, and the pajata that I enooyed earlier that day and which I think I liked even more, is making me very hungry. (Tonight's meal Chez Ekscrunchy is dried whole wheat pasta with Italian sausage, Swiss chard and pinoli which I toasted earlier. ..not that anyone asked...)

With a liter of house wine, the total was 54 Euro. We had a delicious meal and a lively evening talking about a wide variety of topics (music took first place) with Sandi and Michael.

After dinner, a stroll to Giolitti for my signature amaretti with chocloate cone.

OMG - I am ready to quit my job, cash in my savings and jump on the next plane to Roma! Armando al Pantheon is a wonderful, warm, cozy, food to drool over delight! Had a memorable lunch there last Oct. Wish I had known about the oxtail - next time for sure!

Franco wrote:

> Italy consumes about 11650000 tons of wild boar meat per year

I'm not sure about that number. There are 60,000,000 people in Italy so that works out to about 380-400ish pounds a year per person. That means the average Italian eats over a pound of wild boar a day. I don't even think that I can consume that much.

Ok, back into the doghouse: artvark, you're of course right - please read kilograms, not tons! I wanted to convert it into tons in order to make reading of the figures easier, but then forgot to cancel the zeros after pasting the original figures. Otherwise, the figures are precise.

Almost unbelievable but it is now Friday, our second to last day in Rome. Today is the day for a little bit of shopping.

As I mentioned earlier, the official sales begin tomorrow the 13th, but I have had it on good authority that if you ask discreetely, the shops will give you the sale price for a few weeks before the actual sales begin. In my experience this was true. I had already made my two big purchases at Tods: A pair of shoes (this brand is very comfortable for me) and a pocketbook. They took 40% off each purchase and I will get a tax refund at the airport. The sales help in this shop are truly kind and very patient, and I even got some complicated fashion tips regarding which color to wear with which, tips that I promptly forgot....(no blue with black was the only one I remember and plan to ignore because I happen to like navy and black together)

The entire week a strange (to me) phenomenon appeared on the streets of Rome. In every shop window, large sheets of tissue paper sheathed much of the glass. Because the paper was so thin, you could read that behind it, there were large letters announding "Soldi" and percentage amounts: "40%....50%"...and so on. I had already made my reconnaissance of various possible spending sprees, so planned on Friday, the day before the actual sale, to complete my rounds and pick up a couple of items here and there.

WRONG!!! We hit the streets only to find that many shops were, indeed, "closed for inventory" on this day before the sales! We could see the sales help inside, rearrangig merchandise and changing price stickers. Frustrating!! (Although we did find quite a few stores that were open, mainly in the Condotti district)

So I would have to fight it out with the other mad shoppers tomorrow, when the sales "Officially" begin. No problem, I planned to be up early and waiting at Cenci (a medium-sized upscale "Department" type store near the Pantheon; akin to Paul Stuart in New York; they have a branch here in New York on Park Avenue) for the doors to open. It would take me but a minute to scoop up those leather sport shoes that I'd had my eye on. More on that tomorrow.....

We spent the morning wandering around with me trying to convince my partner to enter one of the open shops and try on a pair of pants, a sweater, anything....!! But there are such great deals here!!!!
My attempts were rebuffed. I wandered along Via della Croce, one of the Trident streets with a good selection of food shops and a small outdoor market on most mornings. Tempted to buy a load of blood oranges but I held myself back since we were leaving tomorrow. (I had some in the room already from the Via Andrea Doria market; they are in season now) Along with the fod shops, there are some lovely men's small men's shops on this street; each one, it seemed, sported corduroy pants in a range of colors, along with the usual classic winter wear.

I spent some time in Nanni, which has offered "Specialita Alimentari Italiane ed Estere" at #25-26 Via della Croce since 1940. Since the unfortunate incident with the glass jars of Ortiz tuna at the Madrid airport a few years back, I have been in recovery from my food-shopping-in-foreign-cities addiction so I had to hold myself back. So I limited my purchases to a few boxes of Latini pasta, both durum and farro varieties. I was helped in my quest for reformation by the fact that prices for many items were quite high given the poor state of the dollar; many items inn thee stores are available to me for not all that much more money at my Italian merchants back home. This undoubtedly was due to the fact that I was shopping now in what must be one of the most expensive areas in all of Italy to shop for food: right in the Trident/Spanish Steps area of Rome.

One of the things I did not buy that I regretted (actually there were quite a few) was bottarga, which is the cured pressed roe of mullet used in pasta dishes, and sold for high prices back in the US. A shameful lapse on my part....

http://www.bottarga.info/

ttt

ek - it's not that we didn't notice yesterday's installment! We're just sitting there with knife and fork, napkin tied around the neck, and waiting for lunch!

Good morning, Franco. Please forgive the shameless "taking to the top" of my lengthy missive...inexcusable self-promotion.

I see that you are hungry. Today we are not taking lunch in a restaurant but have decided to lunch alfresco on the small terrace of our hotel room overlooking the Pantheon. So, after our return from the Via della Croce, a bag filled with Latini pasta and a few tubes of tomato paste in hand, we wandered over to the small alimentari on Via di Torre Argentina. ( I cannot find the name, but there are a couple of shops clustered along this street south of the Pantheon).

Here we purchased mozzarella di bufula (I know, not very Roman); a local cow's cheese; and a nice serving of prosciutto. I asked the shopkeeper if he had prosciutto di Parma and he (somewhat dismissively) said "no," he sold local prosciutto. Next stop was a nearby bakery for a few rolls and a heavenly eggy cake studded with dried fruits and sold by weight.....


We took this small repast (along with several packages of farro....not to cook at the hotel, of course, but to take home to the US) back and snacked in the room, along with a few pears that I had purchased at the open air market close to the Piazza della Rotunda and which I had discovered only that morning. (I am not sure I could find this market again; it is very close to the square and has a nice selection of produce). The pears were an elongated shape that I have never seen outside France and Italy..

After the snack, we went upstairs to the roof of the Albergo del Senato and spent some time admiring the skyline and taking some sun and a few snapshots. It was difficult to believe that this was early January! I was in shirtsleeves. Oh how I adore Rome!

After lunch, we wandered over to the Campo dei Fiori area. For the first time, I had a look at the famous Dar Filletaro a Santa Barbara (officially known as Filetti di Baccala). This is a hole-in-the-wall eatery famous for its fried fish tucked into an atmospheric square off the Campo. Although it was shut tight in late afternoon, I placed it on my list for next time, as it appears to be a haunt of serious eaters and was quite atmospheric in a rought and tumble way.

The focus of this picturesque little square, which looks like a move set, is the Santa Barbara dei Librari church which dates back at least as far as the 14th Century and is a real gem with a beautiful Venetian plaster altar. Santa Barbara, the patron saint of the Italian navy, was a 3rd century martyr who was beheaded by her father who, in turn was struck by a bolt of lightening.

After the church, I did some window shopping on the Campo at Antica Norcineria Viola and Roscioli, two gorgeous food shops (Roscioli also sells wine) that I think I mentioned earlier in this report.

And then it was time to amble back to the hotel and prepare for dinner, which was set for 9:30 at Colline Emiliane, an outpost of Bolognese cooking on the Via di Avignonesi.

Oh, ek, I'd never say it's inexcusable topping your own thread - especially with such a wonderful thread as this one (I'm even doing the same with my far less amusing threads!)
I just wanted to, ummm, NOT to urge you, of course, but to INVITE you to share your lunch with us. For me, as well, shopping cheese and prosciutto and fruits and so on is an essential part of travelling, so I think this lunch "at home" was a great idea.

GTG plans?

I’m back too. Unlike some people who shall remain nameless I was not in Venice - for the second time in two months. Grrr!

Ek, Only one day left in your report! I’m going to have severe withdrawal symptoms.

However, there was one sentence that struck me: “On the bright side, I hope certainly to return to Rome before too long.” May I suggest the end of May? I’ve been mentally compiling a list of restaurants, and I’m at about seven or eight establishments that require closer attention...

ek, I'm still reading too, and guess what? I just found out my mom is coming to Germany to visit us for 2 weeks in June and we are hopefully going to do a little mom-daughter trip to Rome together! So I am going to bring all of your awesome restaurant reviews and we are going to have a FABULOUS time!!

topping because it's wonderful, ahhhhhhh.

Thanks to all who have stuck with me so far.

Eloise, that is so tempting. Will you be there in May? I would not be able to go back so soon, though, but one day we will coordinate and do some serious eating together...

Dinner to be served very soon.....

Friday night we left the Senato, turned right, and then right again onto the Via Pastini, which is the Pantheon-Fontana di Trevi route, for a lovely nightime walk along this pedestrian street, lined with small restaurants and crowded with tourists and locals even in January.

After a few blocks we entered the Piazza di Pietra and my mouth dropped open. Not for food this time. The dramatically lit, colonnaded wall of the vast Temple of Hadrian (2nd Century) looming over this piazza was so unexpected that we literally stopped in our tracks. Amazing. I had never seen this before in all the time I had spent in Rome over the years. Do not miss this sight at night!

A bit further on, I made a slight detour to read the menu at Al Moro restaurant, which has received so much press here in the US over the years, most recently in an article in the New York Times by Mimi Sheraton, and another in Gourmet magazine. Prices are higher than the places we had been enjoying; the menu looked great, of course, and the patrons I saw entering the place were very well dressed Italians.

After a few more steps we heard the sound of rushing waters which meant that we were close to the Trevi fountain. Entering the piazza from the narrow street, the floodlit fountain is a breathtaking no matter how many times you have seen it in the past. This, too, is best viewed at night in my opinion. Oh, I love Rome.

After some oohing and ahhing, we walked on, eventually finding the long, narrow Via degli Avignonesi, close to Piazza Barberini, and entered Colline Emiliane at #22 just in time for our 9:30 dinner reservation.

Eloise, the nameless welcome you back. And where have you been?

ek, it's sheer virtuosity how you're tantalizing us - almost each time, you're stopping just before the meal is served, and leave us salivating. As Eloise said, we'll miss the experience as soon as your report will be complete.

Before we sit down at Coline Emiliane, I wanted to let you know, Eloise, that I have taken the new Jamie Oliver "Jamie's Italy" book out of the library. The photos are truly beautiful and there are a number of recipes that I would like to try; the vegetable dishes in particular look interesting. Most of the recipes appear more complicated than those in the Batali book that I like so much (Molto Italiano). The recipe for Panzanella, for example, runs two full pages of closely spaced type.

Oliver's writing style is not to my taste and the book could do with a lot more research. Note this, in the long recipe for Pasta alla Norma:

".....This is a classic Sicilian pasta dish that everyone on the island grows up eating (I haven't got a clue who Norma is but I am sure she is a good old girl...") Excuse me.....?????

Also, he covers a very small portion of Italy; much of the book is devoted to things Sicilian; Puglia and Tuscany are also covered.

Not wanting to keep you all hungry, we will now enter Coline Emiliane. Consisting of two rather brightly lit and simply decorated rooms, the restaurant was almost empty when we arrived at 9:30. There were, however, many "reserved" signs on the tables and by 10pm, the place was full and people were being turned away at the door for lack of reservations. Except for one other table, all of the diners appeared to be Italians.

We each began with Tortellini en Brodo which was excellent. The portion was surprisingly large and by the time I finished it I was almost full.

Purely in the interest of research, I pressed on. The menu offered many of the classics we had enjoyed during our few days in Bologna last winter. One dish I have never sampled is bollito misto and this was, indeed on the menu. Instead of ordering that, however, I chose what I believe is the beef component of the dish, Manzo Lesso with Salsa Verde. Two large slices of boiled beef arrived with a dollop of delicious salsa verde (parsley, anchovy, olive oil.....). Although the meat was a bit dry on its own, when paired with the sauce in each bite it was excellent.

Wanting to enjoy his full complement of pasta, my partner ordered Fettucine with ragu and pronounced it wonderful.

With cover, water and a half liter of Lambrusco the total was 64 Euro.

Dessert was taken en route back to the hotel; we stopped at Giolitti for yet another round of amaretti with chocolate. No panna this time....

Tomorrow is our last day and I am already feeling sad at the prospect of ending this report, through which I am reliving a fabulous trip to glorious Rome.

Hello Ekscruchy,

Your reports (I admit I stumbled on to them only today and haven't read past the first couple days) are great.

May I ask two questions: a) Are you a chef? (I just find it mind boggling that someone can "understand" food so well), and b) how do you retain so much information? Do you write before/after you eat?

Someone has said (not me!) "to eat well in England, you should have breakfast three times a day". Reading your reports, I say "to eat well in Rome, print and follow ekscrunchy's reports". Fair enough ?

Okay, I am hungry after reading these reports of I-can't-even-write-and-definitely-can't-pronounce dishes so I will go and talk to my vegetables right now.

A proposito Spaghetti alla Norma, I remember to have once read that the actual name of this dish should be Spaghetti alla norma (not Norma), so nothing about the Bellini-Catania-Sicilia connection, but "normal" spaghetti, those which Sicilians once were used to eat "normally". Like Sir James, I must profess I have no clue, in my particular case no clue if this explanation of "alla norma" is true, but at least it's entertaining...

Franco, well I just may be I the doghouse again. Here I was being smart because I thought that EVERYONE should know that the dish was named after Bellini's heroine (which just may be my favorite opera). Of course I got this idea from Fred Plotkin who says as much in the Catania chapter of his Italy food guide.
So...you think that is just a romantic invention? I happen to love eggplant and adore this dish, not that you asked!

Comfy Shoes, I am not a chef. I cook at home but have always loved reading about food (and everything else) and trying different dishes. It sounds corny but it really is a window into a culture. For this report, I just saved the receipts; sometimes the dishes were listed and if they were not, I scribbled them on the back of the receipt. I have to tell you that I do spend a lot of time on a trip looking at menus posted in windows.
Also, I live in New York and we have so many restaurants featuring the cuisines of all over the world so I maintain my interest. And I am fortunate enough to have done a tremendous amount of traveling so that would have initially kindled my interest. The reading is the main thing, though. I take cookbooks out of the library and read through them and try new dishes...mostly Italian but sometimes other cuisines. If I have good results, sometime I buy the book. Currently I have no room on my shelves for anything else but that will not stop me, I am afraid! I am sure I gave you far more information than you asked for, but there it is..

Thanks, ekscrunchy. I guess like everyone else, I find that there are things I am deeply passionate about, and am very much into'em. I like good food but I am afraid I never spend so much care into thinking about them (I probably would by the time I end reading this lo....ng thread). I also come from a country with a very strong tradition of its own cuisine, and it is not italy or france. I wonder if there is some merit to the thought that if you grew up in multiethnic cuisine environment like the States, you tend to be more into food of a certain country because you chose to do so (like a hobby).

Anyway, all I can say is good for you, eat well, and wish you many many similar trips in the future.

You are very welcome. I think you are right about the food as a hobby idea. I wish you lots of good eating and great travels in the future.

ek, I simply don't know which of the two is the true pasta alla norma story. (Norma is a great opera, I agree - but who can sing the heroine today? Let alone Pollione? A few years ago, I would have loved to hear Eliane Coelho and Giuseppe Giacomini, respectively; but they've both retired in the meantime, and Coelho has never sung Norma, as far as I know, while Giacomini has only done it as a young tenor, when he was far - FAR - from being the world's greatest dramatic tenor, as in his later years. You see? I always manage to push your threads off-topic...) Back to pasta alla norma, it might as well be alla Norma - it was by no means uncommon in the 19th century to name new dishes after new operas (e.g. salads "Zelmira", "Matilde di Shabran" or "Salammbò", all named after long-forgotten Rossini works).

And a proposito eggplant, if you happen to long for a recipe for ravioli with eggplant stuffing, just advise, it's a great dish...

Franco, you never cease to impress. The last Norma I saw (please do not shudder) in person was Shirley Verrett at the Met. I wonder if you have read Fred Plotkin's Italy tome..the Gourmet Traveler book. I am asking because of the way he fuses opera and food..

I am not ambitious enough to make ravioli but thank you for your kind offer.

By the way, I was just at the sale of cookbooks and kitchen equipment at the James Beard House in New York. the last thing I need is more cookbooks but of course I could not hold myself back. One of the books I considered but did not buy was by Ada Boni; you may have seen this large format book on various regions of the country. I am curious about Ada Boni. Is she or was she a prominent cook in Italy?

Now I am totally veering off into uncharted waters but to show you my lineage regarding opera, here is a film featuring my cousin as interviewer:

http://www.amazon.com/Opera-Fanatic-Stefan-Fedora-Barbieri/dp/6305332800

Oh my god! it's really a small world! So Stefan Zucker is your cousin... that film that you've linked above is wonderful, especially Leyla Gencer's acid-tongued, spot on comments on her former colleagues. I'm a great admirer of Stefan Zucker's Bel Canto Society, of which I have several videos in my collection... and some of your cousin's own singing, as well... I don't absolutely share his love for Corelli, though, I must admit!!

Sorry, I've never heard of Ada Boni, but I'm no cookbook expert like you, ek; and I haven't read Plotkin's book so far, of which I do have heard, though.

I can't believe it! Franco tell me I am not hallucinating!
Yes, he is my cousin..actually he was my mother's cousin..he is the son of the brother of my grandmother. The film was wonderful, even if there were a number of mean-spirited reviewers on Amazon. Now I must try to see it again, as I do not have the video; I will ask my sister if she has a copy...

That is pretty amazing! It just goes to show that kindred spirits will always find each other.

I wish I had more to contribute on opera... I did interpret for the Vienna State Opera when they came to Expo 67 - does that count?

As for Ada Boni, she wrote a cookbook called “Il Talismano della Felicita” that was, as far as I can gather, a kind of “Joy of Cooking” for Italian brides some decades ago. I’ve seen an English “adaptation” of it in second-hand bookstores, but I haven’t bought it. I do have an English version of “Italian Regional Cooking,” but I don’t find it very user-friendly. I would say you were wise to pass it up.

Eloise, of course it counts. Welcome to the Fodor's Opera Club!

Yes, Eloise, welcome. I am so glad you agreed that I was right to pass up the Ada Boni book. The recipes did not, indeed, seem user friendly. And the book was a little bit tattered and more important, the introductions to the chapters did not seem to contain any information that we have not each rad before. I did snag Nick Stellino's Family Kitchen which has a very good recipe for Peperoni Farciti alla Partenopea, which I would call stuffed red peppers with mozzarella, capers and olives. Stellino is a convivial Sicilian-American who has a show on PBS.

Interesting that each of us loves opera. Can that be a coincidence?

Will be back soon to finish....

Saturday: Our last full day in Rome, before our return flight to the US the next day.

Having previously scoped out the offerings at Davide Cenci, an large upscale clothing and accessory shop at Via Campo Marzio, 1-7, we planned to be at the shop in time for the 9:30 opening. As I previously mentioned, Cenci is a large two-floor store that sells the clothing, shoes and leather accessories of many Italian and foreign designers. It appeared to me to be patronized largely by locals, unlike most of the upscale shops of the Via Condotti area. In addition to brands like Ralph Lauren, they sell famous Italian designers such as Prada and Tods in addition to less well-known labels and their own classic line.

Approaching the shop, just north of the hotel, we were startled by a long line of people traling along the street ahead. A sinking feeling overtook us when we realized that these people were not waiting for concert tickets. They were waiting on line for the Cenci store to open! The line snaked south from the entrance on Via Campo Marzio (the Roman Campus Martius, field of Mars) turned the corner and trailed west along the Via Uffizi Vicario. Photographers from the papers were out in force, cameras clicking away. I could imagine the headlines; " Saldi Crush Tramples 22: American Tourists among the Flattened."

There was a frisson of anticipation in the crowd; everyone was eagerly scrutinizing the windows and plotting out their assault on the store; only a limited amount of shoppers were allowed in at one time and many of these people had been on line since 7am!

Although I soon realized the ridiculousness of wasting time in Rome waiting to enter a shop, I soon got into the spirit of camraderie; it was fun to be among these die-hard bargain hunters. After about an hour, we were allowed into the store and, as imagined, it was a madhouse and a sight to behold that brought me right back to S. Klein's bargain tables where I used to trail along with my mother as she rummaged for $8 cashmere sweaters many years ago.

I quickly pounced on a box of my coveted black leather Prada sneakers which were marked down by 50%. (The fact that they may be just a tad too small is something I realized only later after the frenzy of the morning. I am sure they will stretch with wear..must stay optimistic...)

We were quickly out of the store and into the streets which were now almost teeming with shoppers laden with multiple bags from various merchants. We wandered over to the Spagna area for some great people watching. I did not have the energy to do any more shopping (for anything other than food, that is..) Every shop was plastered with large letters trumpeting "saldi" and "sconti" with the percentages: 40%, 50%, 60% discount.

Most of the shoppers were Italian but we noticed lots of British shoppers, too, and a surprising number of Russian speakers as well. Absent were the large numbers of Japanese that had been here during our last visit to the Rome saldis a few years ago.

By this time it ws time for lunch so we headed back to the hotel for another alfresco snack of local cheese, prosciutto, bread, and fruit in view of the Pantheon outside the tall windows. (The rooms at the Senato have mini bars where you can store small perishables).

From a few days we had been gazing out at the skyline and wondering about an unusual twisting spire rising to the west, so after lunch we set off in search and found our way to the Palazzo della Sapienza, home to Rome's old papal university at #40, Corso della Rinascimento. Ensconced in the courtyard of the palace, adorned with Modigliani's bronze Tete de Cariatide, is the 17th century concave facade of the church of Sant'Ivo by Borromini topped by that arresting carved spire we had spotted from our window. Another amazing Roman juxtapostion!

.....to be continued..

Ek, shopping is fun, shopping is great, but we are eagerly waiting to hear where you had your last dinner in Rome! (I know, it’s also a bit of a downer - the end of a glorious week, the end of a terrific report...)

On coincidence: “In the magical universe there are no coincidences and there are no accidents. Nothing happens unless someone wills it to happen.” William S. Burroughs. No, I have not read Burroughs; I googled for the quotation.

Eloise, I do apologize for taking so long. We are returning to Matricianella for our last dinner in Rome. Very soon.

I love the quotation. I tried two Jamie Oliver recipes this weekend and results were mixed. I am returning the cookbook to the library.

The crowds at the Davide Cenci sale were equaled only by the crowds at the cookbook sale at the James Beard House on Saturday.

I'm looking forward to your report on your second dinner at Matricianella. I've eaten well both times I was there; I love their fritti. Over on SlowTrav, two frequnet posters, one of them Maureen Fant, were terribly down on the place after they shared what they called a terrible meal a few years ago.

That's such a great idea about checking out a cookbook from the library before you buy. I'm always curious about new cookbooks then regret some of the purchases.

Thanks for the idea!

bookmarking

Later in the afternoon on our last day, a Saturday, we took the bus from Largo Argentina to Piazza della Repubblica, near Termini station, and walked the few blocks to Santa Maria della Vittoria. This Baroque church holds Bernini's masterpiece, Ecstasy of Santa Teresa, which depicts the saint in a swoon after being pierced with an angels' arrow.

Then it was time to head back to the hotel, pack some things, and head out for Matricianella. We had reserved a table here after an excellent dinner earlier in the week.

Our reservation was for 8:30 and when we arrived the restaurant was almost full. The temperatures were in the high 50s so the outdoor tables had been set up in front beside those giant heaters used in outdoor cafes.

And now without further dawdling, here is what we ate that night, along with prices to give an idea of the breakdown of a meal for two:

Bread..1.50

1 liter water..2.50

House wine..4.00

Daily Special:
Bucatini alla Matricianella (this was their version of Bucatini all'Amatriciana, the classic Lazian dish of bucatini with a sauce of guanciale (pig jowl); tomato; onion; garlic; and dried red pepper. {The name of the original dish comes from the town of Amatrice, in inland Lazio}. This was excellent and I would consider it a must if you want to explore the classic Roman repertoire......8.50.

Daily special:
Tonnarelli ai Carciofi. Wonderful pasta dish with artichokes. Excellent...7.00

Secondi:

Daily special..Eggplant Parmesan. Not as good as the same dish at Trattoria Monti, as it lacked the slightly burned bits at the edges. Excellent just the same....9.50.

Scallopine al Limone. I wanted a fairly light second course and had not yet sampled any veal. I asked the waiter his opinion and he made an ever-so-slight face and pointed me towards the SPECIAL of abbachio with an egg (??) sauce. Of course, ekscrunchy did not follow her own advice, which was to stick with the specials. And to ignore the waiter's subtle clues...inexcusable. This dish was disappointing. The veal was all right but the lemony wine sauce was ok but not memorable. Very disappointing. I could have kicked myself for choosing this for my Roman finale. 11.00.

Total....44 Euro. Well worth it, even with the slip on the veal.

Matricianella, Via del Leone, 2-3-4. Closed Sundays. A SlowFood pick.

After dinner, we stopped for gelato before heading back to the Albergo del Senato for what would be our last overnight in Rome.

eks,
How was the Matcianella version of all'amatriciana different from the traditional or could you tell? I ask because it's a favorite, and one of the few things I make--rather well--at home. Of course I have to substitute for the guanciale.

Sorry for misspelling Matricianella. Getting a little ahead of myself.

And thanks for the report. Love all the detail.

So sorry to learn that your final dinner has been less memorable. Lamb with egg sauce, yes: abbacchio brodettato, one of the hallmarks of Rome's cuisine; I'm being lazy now, and instead of translating Sora Lella's recipe for you (given that I don't even know whether you really want to have it), I'm just posting this link: http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,1977,FOOD_9936_13080,00.html

Leely, the version at the restaurant seemed to me to be the traditional one with another spelling. I've never made it at home but am considering doing it soon. Guanciale is now fairly easy to find here but pancetta would do the trick, too. It really is a good dish.

Franco, thank you for the recipe. So even with all of that preparation and all of the great tips and advice, I managed to goof up! You must think I am a doozy for ignoring your recommendations for Sora Lella, Checchino, and Osteria dell Angelo!
Maybe it was a subconscious wasy of insuring I would HAVE to go back to Rome!

Certainly it was! See above: you instantly accepted the penalty of having to go back soon and do further research work (and a new gorgeous trip/food-report).

Hello out there, nobody is posting - does that mean we have to get by with the fact that this gorgeous report is finished now? No more lunch on Sunday?
And if so, where and when are you travelling next, ek? Guess I've become an ekscrunchy food report addict!

Franco you are too sweet!

The next day, Sunday, we had a flight back to the US about 2pm, so after breakfast we did our packing. I had neglected to arrange a return trip to the airport, so we phoned them (Rome Shuttle Limousine) from the hotel with only about two hour's notice. No problem. At the appointed time, a new Mercedes pulled up outside the hotel, with Rossi Massimo (Massimo Rossi??) at the wheel. We had a good drive to the airport, with Massimo/Rossi pointing out various sights such as the building where Roberto Benigni lives. He (M/R) told us that he had once been a regular driver for the actor. He was a great driver and seemed like an all-around good guy; here is his number:

339-345-2144

We arrived at the airport very quickly, this being a Sunday without traffic. The ride cost 35 euro.

I spent the time before the Alitalia flight looking around at the food items for sale in the duty free shop (Long discussion about the merits of buying Ligurian olive oil with 2005 and 2006 olives has already been posted....). Did not buy anything. For those interested in Limoncello, the Rome airport stocks many varieties at prices much lower than here in the US. Prices on Aperol are very good, too.
Last January I purchased new oil by Frescobaldi (makers of Laudemio oils) at their airport wine bar/shop; either this was at the Milan airport or it was in another terminal in Rome. Look out for it when returning home, as it has great prices on olio nuovo in the winter.

And then it was on to Alitalia bound for New York and the conclusion of this fantastic week in Rome. Flight (economy) was fine; plane had individual video screens in seats in front of us that really help pass the time.

Next....begin preliminary research for the next Italian food jaunt. Contenders at this time are:
Naples/Campania coast; Veneto/Friuli; Turin/Piedmont or Milan/Piedmont. Sugggestions are most welcome..

Ek, I’m glad Franco coaxed the end of your report from you, and I’ve taken note of Rossi/Massimo’s telephone number. (Incidentally, what did you decide on the thorny tipping question? And there’s been no report on the results of your research into Roman waiters’ attitudes on tipping/chatting etc....!)

Ummm. With the caveat that I don’t know Piedmont, my order of preference would probably be Piedmont/Turin (which sounds interesting, and I dislike Milan), Naples/Campania, and Veneto/Friuli.

For more information on Piedmont than you’ll know what to do with, check out SlowTalk. The owner of a B&B in Acqui Terme (upscale but her ideas of decor are not mine) has given oodles of in-depth information on Piedmont - to the extent that I voiced a mild complaint and got royally flamed for my trouble. Another one there is the chap who owns Villa Sampaguita. They both post here as well - the Sampaguita owner is the one who engaged in the memorable debate with Franco about truffles. He also started the screamingly funny thread (sorry, Franco...) “Who is Franco?” Their posts on SlowTalk are more informative than the ones here, and hers tend to be better than his.

Ek and Franco, we’ve come to the end of this terrific report, but I for one greatly enjoyed the “how-far-do-we-manage-to-get-off-topic game”! So do tell us, Franco, what you learned about meat quality and butchers in Italy. But please, only if it’s not going to ruin our illusions and appetites!

And going bravely off topic, I post for your edification a link to a review of Mozza, Mario Batali’s pizza outpost in LA:

http://tinyurl.com/yt5jn3

Pictured is the most absurd perversion of pizza I’ve ever seen. I don’t know LA; is this some SoCal trend that I’m too unhip to understand?

And Ek, in return for your report on “Jamie’s Italy” (yes, he does seem to go in for the “Gee, I’m just an uneducated lower-class Brit” shtick...), here’s a brief report on “In a Roman Kitchen” by Jo Bettoja, an American long married to the owner of the Bettoja hotels; she also had a cooking school in Rome at one time. Good, by and large, as far as I can tell, but - the woman puts heavy cream in half her pasta sauces! Even in carbonara, which is a big no-no in my books (she does say that “some disagree about whether it is appropriate”). To me, heavy cream is so totally un-Roman. The other recipes - antipasti, meats, vegetables, and desserts - seem good. There’s even a recipe for the beef garofolato Franco mentioned elsewhere. It’s longish but on a slow day I can copy it for you if you like.

I’m hugely disappointed, of course, that you won’t join me in Rome at the end of May! Franco, is there any chance that you might be in Rome then?

Eloise, I am indeed sad, both not to be able to join you in May and also to have to come "home," so to speak.... One of these days we WILL have dinner in Rome.

I want to thank you for the post on Mozza in LA. I am laughing at the conceit of the whole thing. You probably are already familiar with Obika in Rome, which was that city's first (and for all I know, still the only) "mozzarella bar."

http://www.obika.it/it/roma.html

I actually thought of eating there one afternoon (we eventually decided to buy our own mozzarella and have lunch in the hotel room...). I first heard about Obika from Mario Batali, maybe on his show or in an interview. You know, we can almost place bets on what will be the "next new big thing" in food... Meanwhile we are poking fun and they are laughing all the way to the bank!

I have read many, many of the posts by the owners of the two B&Bs in Piedmont. They seem to be the main posters on that region and I wish I could read comments by other travelers who have been there recently.

I have been twice to Naples and even went to Teatro San Carlo (listening, Franco?). But both trips were brief and so long ago that I barely remember anything other than the shock of having the waiter in a pizzeria pour olive oil on my pizza. I was scandalized by this at the time. But the question there is, what to combine Naples with to complete one week? I am not sure I really want stay on the AC coast next time (I am probably the only poster on Fodor's who is not enticed by that prospect..) ; I was thinking maybe Naples followed by a few days in Sorrento with a day trip along the Drive. (??) I will post all of this in a new thread one day soon.

Eloise, did you happen to see the new tv series on the Travel Channel about Italy? It is called Top to Toe and is hosted by a Venetian with lots of shaggy gray hair. I saw it for the first time last night and while it covers way too much ground in an hour to be really informative, the photography was really good. They covered Padua and Vicenza and Verona and Turin and Milan and more in an hour!

Eloise thanks for the "In a Roman Kitchen" book tip. I am wondering if this is the book I spotted a few weeks ago in the bookstore with a shrink wrap over it..one of the only books you could not actually look into, for some reason. Will have to try to have another look. The book on Le Marche food also looked interesting; maybe I can get that one in the library.

Also, do you know the author Carla Capalbo? I have never read her but she has books on the foods of a few regions of Italy. I was wondering if you thought she was worth checking out....

I forgot! The tipping issue! I am embarassed to say that I have absolutely nothing to add. We tipped a little virtually everyplace and I think we gave a few euro (maybe 2) extra to the drivers of the airport cars because they were so nice. We will have to revisit this discussion. In thinking about Rossi/Massimo, I wonder if the price might be even lower if he does not have to pay the agency a fee but is dealt with directly. He haded me his card when I asked, not the card of the Rome Shuttle Limo office so I wonder... Here is a second number for him: 3207410073. Under his name it says "Autista" with a drawing of a vintage car.

Sorry to disappoint you, Eloise, but I won't be there, too - I have actually decided to go to Greece, and that's where I'll be in late May...

Ok, if ek permits that we're (once more) hijacking one of her threads - here we go: meat quality in Italy! No, it's not off-putting, not at all; at least not as far as Italy is concerned. It's another question whether you'll want to buy meat at home in the future (just kidding).
Well, that barista at Al Volto broadly lamented the meat quality in Venice (which is absolutely unjustified - I, as a stranger, know at least three really memorable butchers there). But his main argument was so stunning that I couldn't quite answer back: for him, a butcher is ONLY reliable if he himself raises ALL animals he is slaughtering - a butcher who dares buying anything from the slaughterhouse is NOT a butcher, according to this Venetian gourmet! He even disapproved (with considerable displeasure) of another Venetian butcher who still raises his own cattle and pigs, but sells meat of horses raised elsewhere... Can you imagine? These are the moments offering true insight into the terrific quality of cooking in Italy - which is no big surprise, with ingredients up to expectations like these. Yes, of course, this brave barista still knows a butcher who is rasing everything he's selling, and he'd never buy anywhere else. (Of course, I asked him for the address. Of course, I'll try this butcher's meat next time when coming to Venice. Of course, I'll report here.)

ek, hello - I had already started typing when you posted (obviously, I'm typing slowly today - hopefully, I'll make fewer mistakes than usually). As for Naples, I won't be very helpful (I happen to hate Naples), but if I may suggest a rest-of-the-week destination, I'd say: southern Lazio, especially if you go in summer. Ponza island is the one and only place where I really enjoyed a beach in my life, it has one of Italy's best pasticcerie/gelaterie, and this pasticceria is preparing the very best espresso I've ever had. And on the mainland, this part of Lazio seems to be very interesting for foodies; in our long "Rome visit - easy side trips" thread, I've mentioned one glorious restaurant in Pontinia, and my old Gambero Rosso edition mentions several simple, rustic trattorie in that region that sound very appealing.

Franco you are always full of ideas. The problem here is that I do not travel in the summer. I was thinking sometime in early 2008, hopefully before Easter.
NOW, why do you hate Naples? I have to admit that the crime issue has put me off a little since I had my "bad" experience in Palermo two years ago...am I just being a baby?

Well, first of all, I think there's not really much to see, i.e. not much of great importance, and much as I love food, my primary interest in travelling is art & architecture. And in terms of atmosphere, it simply failed to attract me, to put it mildly. I'm not an anxious traveller, but Napoli is one place where I felt really, really unsafe. Palermo, for me, is a safe haven as compared to Napoli. And safety issues apart, I simply thought it was disgusting. Four inches beside their main sight, the Castel Nuovo, they had a huge car scrapyard when I visited... I know, in the meantime, the scrapyard is gone. Maybe I should give Naples a second try?

ek, loved the report. I'm sorry there's no more! Of course, you've brought out lots of other good info from Franco & Eloise. I've added your restaurants to my list for my next trip.

Ek,
Thanks so much for providing so many details. I made many notes for our trip next month!

You are both welcome. Yes, it was Eloise and Franco and others who added so much to the lively discussion. I am sad that the trip is over but have no doubt that we will soon find other subjects to enthuse over and debate!
Soon I will start thinking about another trip to Italy and we can delve into the foods of a totally different region!

Did someone mention my name?

Indeed, Ek, from all I can gather, Mozza is making money hand over fist. So, I suppose, is Obika, which I’ve read about and seen but never gone into. The cheese I’m planning to sample in Rome this time around is burrata. Obika probably has it, but I’ll get it at Volpetti or some such place and consume it in my room.

If you find a non-shrink-wrapped copy of “In a Roman Kitchen” and like it, you might want to order it here: http://tinyurl.com/yqfmx8. All of $6.98, and I can’t imagine that shipping from MD to NYC would cost a great deal. To Canada, shipping is a minimum of $15, so I generally order 15 books at a time to “amortize” the shipping.

I’m with you on Naples - and the Amalfi Coast. So there are two of us at least. And perish the thought of Sorrento: at least two or three more British pubs than I care to see in Italy - which is none!

There’s a discussion over on SlowTalk about the Italy Top to Toe program. I didn’t see it; I don’t have a specialty-channel subscription. Carla Capalbo’s books are frequently mentioned there as well, but I’m afraid I don’t know them myself.

Note duly taken of Rossi/Massimo’s second telephone number. I don’t see myself calling from here to reserve his services for Fiumicino to Rome, but I’ll definitely keep him in mind for Rome to Fiumicino. Actually, not merely keep in mind, but written down. I have three pages of notes - and counting! - on things I plan to see and do - and eat! - in Rome. I’d hoped to augment them with a useful guide to tipping, based on the latest research... Ah well, such are the disappointments in life.

Franco, that’s all right. While I’m enjoying Roman cooking, I’ll think of you choking down moussaka... Meow! (I don’t know why you bring out the worst in me; possibly because you are - most often, not always - impeccably polite and courteous.) Seriously though, I hope you have a wonderful time in Greece. I loved the country back in the early 70s, when there was not a single jewelry store in Fira on Santorini. And I visited Akrotiri (which I see from posts here will likely remain closed this year) a year or two after Spiros Marinatos started excavating there and saw some of the frescoes that are now in the National Archeological Museum (or have they been moved back to Santorini?) in situ. But the last time I was in Greece, over 10 years ago, it was wall-to-wall jewelry stores in Fira, and everywhere I went - limited somewhat by the fact that I don’t drive - was so over-commercialized that I vowed never to return. The list of countries I will not return to grows and grows; the list of countries I will return to shrinks and shrinks. “I grow old... I grow old.../I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled”...

Your barista at Al Volto sounds like a bit of a fanatic, frankly. Nonetheless, I look forward to your report on the remarkable butcher. But please, nothing about viande chevaline. You know me, I’m not a very adventurous eater. The French, of course, as I am well aware, would never consider cheval adventurous. I didn’t think there was much of it eaten in Italy, though, but I may be mistaken.

And consider giving Naples another chance. In art and architecture, it admittedly doesn’t compare with Rome - but what city does?

Wait, Eloise, don't go! Do I take your comments to mean you are giving me a thumbs up on Naples but not on Sorrento? Sorry to be so dense. And split the week between Naples and which other destination with access to the water?

I am going to whisper this here at the risk of getting attacked, but I really was not taken with Santorini. I was there for a week last year on a trip not of my own planning. You are not kidding about those jewelery stores in Fira, Eloise. I guess I would have felt differently about the place had we stayed in Oia. Franco we are depnding on you to sniff out the great Greek eats and report back...I found them difficult to track down...

Today I bought a new ingedient: Garum, which is a liquid extracted from anchovies. I am about to look into how to use it....please do not ask why I did not do this before making the purchase!

Ek, that's right: Naples yes (bearing in mind that it's a mad and chaotic city whose ideas of cleanliness are less than strict); Sorrento no, no, NO! Even if you could eat off the streets there (which you can't), I wouldn't suggest it; I found it very much a mass-market tourism destination. In addition to the pubs for the Brits, would you believe bacon and eggs offered for dinner (!) for the Germans?!? And I respectfully beg to disagree with Franco about safety in Naples. There are definitely places you should not go, but in general, I did not feel unsafe there in 1997 or 1998.

Where else in the area? There you have me... I'd go to Paestum, of course, but I can't see spending a week there. Nor could I actually envision a full week in Naples.

Or what about Puglia? It's being spoken of very much more frequently in the past little while.

About garum (not much because I don't know much): It's theoretically something the ancient Romans used to flavor their food. Waverley Root probably mentions it. I know there's one regional cuisine of which he says that anchovy juice is an almost omnipresent component, but for the life of me I can't remember which region. Not Lazio and Rome, in any case. Happy hunting - and tell us about the results! As a matter of fact, I think reports on recipes tried (with or without garum) would be a terrific way to keep this thread going...

Eloise, the barista a fanatic? Yes, at least, he's positively crazy. But that's exactly the secret of perfect food quality: PLENTY of fanatics are being needed to produce food like Italy does - the fanatics are in fact the reason why we love Italian food so much... yes, Italian food, and NOT Greek food, thank you very much for reminding me of one of the more pleasant aspects of my future Greek trip. (Another one, quite memorable indeed, is researching ferry schedules. Did anyone ever say Italy be a disorganized country?)
But please: eating horse meat is really as adventurous as eating chicken (and I don't speak of chicken penis). It's very similar to beef, only tastier. In northern Italy, horse meat is in fact as widespread as beef; even donkey is still to be found, be it stewed or - most famous - as a salami.

Btw, just in case that your remark about my being "most often, not always" polite was meant as a comment on my treatment of Ivan Gianni, the guy who yesterday capered every Venice thread in order to advertise his (obviously not even very professional) business, I agree that it hasn't been perfectly polite to call him a rompicoglioni, but given his chutzpah, I don't think you could actually call me rude...


But now for something completely different: ek, you have bought WHAT? GARUM? WHERE? This is absolutely exciting for me - one of my cooking passions is the ancient Roman cuisine, the cookbook of Apicius; you know that garum (or liquamen, as they much more often called it) was the main condiment in ancient (not only Roman, but Greek as well) cuisine? I'm doing with a home-made makeshift liquamen for so many years now, and you have actually found a place where to BUY it?? I can't simply believe it... (Of course, if you, or anybody, want to know how to use it, feel free to ask, hopefully, I'll have my polite day and give some Apicius recipes away.)

About garum-I have a cookbok called "A Taste of Ancient Rome" by Ilaria Gozzini Giacosa. Garum is defined as "fermented fish sauce". From what I've read about it, it's very similar to South East Asian (Thai, Vietnamese) fish sauce with is made from anchovies.

According to the book there were large garum manufacturers all along the coast of the Roman empire including Pompeii, Libya, and southern Spain-anywhere there was an abundance of fish and salt. Of course there were varying levels of quality of garum, the best from southern Spain made of Mackerel, but pretty much any fish, or even fish entrails (for low quality garum) were used.

Last year I did a dinner for 10 based on the recipes in this book. Rather than try to make my own garum, I used a good quality Vietnamese fish sauce and it was just fine. I'd be happy to share the menu I cooked if anyone is interested.

Yes, please! Bring on those recipes using garum. I did find a few on the New York Times site where there has been more frequent mention of this product than I would have thought. But the articles are "Select" and I fear that they will not post..we had some trouble with this in the past.

Ok, the garum. I did not set out yesterday to buy this. I went to a large Italian warehouse-type store that I do not often visit. (Buon Italia in Chelsea Market in New York). I was in search of Crema di Carciofi made with olive, and not sunflower, oil. I had just used up my last jar (brought back from Italy last year) the night before in a rather successful and sublimely easy-to-make pasta dish..more on this later.

No luck on the carciofi cream, but I did spot two bottles of garum. One huge bottle with a price (I had to look twice) of $95.00. And one smaller bottle:

Delfino Garum. Produced and made in Cetara, Italy by Delfino Battista. Wit his e-mail address if anyone is interested. Ingredients are listed as: "Extract of salt anchovies; oregan". This must mean "oregano," but why would this be in the bottle? The 100ml bottle cost $10.US.

Ok, experts...I will await your verdict and advice.

Eloise, I will return soon to discuss the Naples issue...the picture you paint of Sorrento is not a pretty one so I will scratch that idea!

Eloise,
Just browsing around, I looked at the SlowFood section on Campania. Interesting that there are a number of places in Amalfi but only one in Positano, which seems to be a popular base for people here. What do you think about the town of Amalfi? I was in this area so long ago that I really don't remember much..it would appear that most people go to the AC for the views..surely they are spectacular but is the all-around feel so oriented toward tourists that all sense of local atmosphere has been wiped away? (I liked Siracusa much better than Taormina, to give you an idea...)

I made a pasta dish with fresh thick spaghetti (sorry I do not know the exact name) from a great pasta shop in the Bronx. It is so simple that it might cause shudders (!!) among some of our friends..... First I cooked a bag of frozen artichoke hearts, set them aside, and dropped the pasta into the water. Then heated up the crema di carciofi (mentioned above) in a pan and loosened it up with some salted water from the pasta pot. When the pasta was ready, I transferred it into the pan with the artichoke cream and tossed this with the cooked artichoke hearts. I took the pan off the heat and added lots of chopped fresh mint and parsley and a bit of grated lemon zest. It was so easy.

This is not the one I used, but it looks similar:

http://www.operamage.com/prodotti_tipici_liguri/creme/crema_di_carciofi/crema_di_carciofi.html

Now, about that garum....

Hi ek,

I am following every morsel and really enjoying it all...but I REALLY sat up at the mention of the Crema di Carciofi...Being in a hurry the day I bought my bottle in Italy last fall, I thought I had the Crema and just saw I had the Pate....and yes, it is made with extra virgin olive oil. I would like to try your recipe as I adore pasta and artichokes..question, do you suppose the Pate can be used instead of the Crema??? I may have to thin it a bit?? I wonder if the difference is in the consistency and that the pate may have bits and pieces where the Crema would be smooth...any thoughts???

Well, ek, I want some of that pasta you made right NOW!

(I love artichokes)

Susan it was so easy! I wish I had brought home more of those jars! And the leftover crema is so delicious you can eat it plain on toasted bread.

Traviata..I am not sure about the pate. If it contains just artichokes and oil, and even if it has other ingredients, I would guess that you could loosen it up with the pasta water to make a sauce. And don't forget the lemon zest, as that really added a finishing touch to the dish.

For the artichokes, I liked the frozen ones but jarred one might also be also okay as long as they are packed in olive oil. I bought a jar of artichokes at Trader Joe's that were packed in sunflower oil and they were HORRIBLE! (I no longer shop there after several other bad experiences with their products; to their credit, they will return your money if you are unhappy)

ek,

Thank you...I checked the ingredients and they list the artichokes and oil and some pepper and lemon....not much else. Well, if it doesn't work, I can just sit there and spoon the pate right into my mouth straight from the jar....

Traviata, ek, SusanP and everybody else who loves artichoke cream: it's really easy to prepare it yourself!, and there's even a recipe on Fodor's (on "Franco's favourite Venetian food") - of fresh artichokes... I don't know anything about frozen artichokes (not even that such a thing exists), but if they're of good quality, you might substitute them for the fresh ones, but please: no canned artichokes, never mind which oil went into the jar... I know, cleaning fresh artichokes is not a pleasant work, but after your first 40 or 50 artichokes, it doesn't take so much time anymore

Forgive me that I'll postpone writing more about liquamen/garum - the Greek ferry schedules are torturing me, and I've a terrible headache today... but Kristina, of course I'd be interested in your menu! Though I must say the Gozzini Giacosa, for one, is a cookbook that's on my shelf, too, and I don't agree with her ideas about Roman cooking.
More to follow, perhaps tomorrow!

I am SO hungry!!
My husband and I will be in Rome mid-late July. He is always reading up on restaurants....wine...before we travel anywhere. This time, I want to surprise him and make reservations to celebrate a special occasion. Any suggestions?

FAAL, this very thread is full of suggestions!! Alternatively, look here: http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34895007 or here: http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34792415

Ok, leaving aside my ferry problem for a moment, I've done some research on Delfino's garum, and I'm stunned. This is no gourmet revival of an ancient preparation - it's a traditional local ingredient of a village named Cetara, guess where? There are no coincidences, told us Eloise: on the Amalfi Coast!! They obviously continued to make it since ancient times... that's Italy! (There are several ancient traditions obvious in several modern Italian regional cuisines.) And here is the most important garum recipe of Cetara, I've found it on the web:
Linguine alla colatura d'alici (that's how they call garum nowadays in Cetara)
10 black and 5 green olives, all stoned; half a clove of garlic; six walnut kernels; 0.1 litre of olive oil; 10 capers. Blend all these ingredients. (Personally, I'd blend all but the garlic clove, and chop that one finely with a knife, that's way better than putting it into the blender.) Add one tablespoon of colatura d'alici/garum and NO SALT! Sprinkle with lemon juice to taste, mix. Serve on 350 grams of hot linguine.
For you, ek! You're the only one of us who can prepare this dish - we others have no Cetara garum!

Hi franco,

I have loved artichokes from childhood and have many memories of my mother cleaning and cooking them. That is likely why I decided early on that I wanted to be the person eating them and not the person preparing them!!

leftover crema on toast...

OK, now there's something else I have to bring back! Do you know where I can get it? At a regular grocery store? I'll be in Venice, Bologna and, of course, Rome.

Traviata, I see... I'm used to this kind of reaction! I definitely seem to be the only person I've ever met who does NOT mind cleaning artichokes (at least, not to an extent that would prevent me from doing it). The solution, however, is easy enough: rent an apartment in Venice, and prepare your artichokes there - the stalls on the Rialto market are selling them ALREADY CLEANED (and yes, I prefer it that way, too).

Oh dear, I’ve arrived late at the party. Please, please, I hope someone saved some of the pasta with crema di carciofi for me...! One more thing to add to my ever-lengthening Rome list...

Ek, about Amalfi. First off, I have to admit that I was there on a group tour It was a cultural tour, a German “Studienreise,” so people at least had similar interests, but I still wouldn’t do it again... Anyway, it was so art-and-architecture oriented that we whizzed right by Positano and spent only a day in Amalfi and Ravello. As far as I can judge from what I’ve read about Positano, Amalfi is a little bit more of a “real” place. (You know my doubts about “real” places, but I think this might be one instance where I might go with “real” - or as real as any of the Amalfi Coast gets.) Amalfi’s cathedral (exterior more than interior) and the adjoining cloister are interesting. (You must have delizie al limone from the Pasticceria Pansa!) Ravello, about a half-hour up the hill from Amalfi, is very pretty, has two lovely gardens and splendid views. And the restaurant of the Hotel Villa Maria is good, or was in 1998. But then what? With me, a little bit of spectacular scenery goes a long way; I’m decidedly a city mouse, as I suspect you are. (A propos de rien: Ravello is, of course, where Gore Vidal lived for many, many years. My friend asked the tourist office where he lived and they quite happily told us. But discretion prevailed over valor.)

For what it’s worth, I’ve put myself into the doghouse for my contradictory remarks about Naples/Campania. First I urge it on you, then I tell you a week in Naples is too long...! Having given the matter a little more thought, I think I’d still go for it. Maybe five days Naples, two days Amalfi. Day trips from Naples to Pompeii and/or Herculaneum (you are probably aware, though, that the Circumvesuviana is a rather run-down commuter train...) and, as previously mentioned, Paestum (from Amalfi). Even if one or more of the temples is wrapped in scaffolding, the little museum is quite wonderful: It has that much-discussed fresco of The Diver and some good Archaic metopes. Paestum is also, I gather, deep in mozzarella di bufala country; you might be able to visit a cheese maker It would make quite a long day, though. In Naples itself, the National Archeological Museum is well worth a visit (I love the small little frescoes of Diana and Primavera/Flora; reproductions hang in my bedroom), and the Capodimonte Museum has a good collection. Spaccanapoli is fun - but “Attenzione alla borsa!” I honestly think that with a little bit of extra caution, you can escape unscathed. The cloister of Santa Chiara with its majolica tiles is a quiet oasis amid the chaos, and I suppose the Veiled Christ of Sansevero should be seen - more as a tour de force than as a work of art; I found it quite drippy and sentimental. Lots of churches and the cathedral with the blood that liquifies, so we are told. But enough of culture and on to food. Sfogliatelle! And torta caprese (chocolate and almond) at Caffe Gambrinus! (Do you see a theme emerging here...?) And I think you have to choose your hotel quite carefully, for location and to get some peace and quiet. The tour actually put us up in a four-star on Piazza Garibaldi - gasp! horror! It was not at all bad during the day; I admittedly didn’t go out late at night.

What is on the menu tonight? And where do I line up?

Ok, here's what I made. I must preface this with the fact that I "adapted" many of the recipes so that they would be more appealing to my dinner guest's palates.
In attendance at the party were 5 couples, including the friend who gave me the book and begged me to cook from it and my sister-in-law who is a Classics professor at Northwestern. So, there was much discussion about Ancient Rome in general, the TV series "Rome" and the authenticity of the recipes.

Assorted Olives and Bread

Moretaria-Cheese (goat) round with herbs (mint, coriander, fennel, honey and garum)

Arugula and Watercress salad with fresh lavender (oil and vinegar dressing)

Barley Polenta-Corn was not introduced until after the discovery of the "new world", but barley was often cooked like a porriage or like creamy polenta. I added raisins and pine nuts, "just because".

Carrots with Cumin sauce

Squash Alexander-butternut squash with dates, pine nuts, cumin, mint, coriander, garic, honey, vinegar, olive oil and garum.

Minutal Matianum-Pork Stew with Apples (this was really good!)

Savillum-ricotta cheese cake, sweetened with honey.

Patina de Piris-Pear Patina-This is hard to describe, but somewhat like a pear custard baked in a casserole dish.

Much wine was consumed and good time was had by all.

ekscrunchy,
I'm helping my inlaws plan their first trip to Italy this May and this thread it AWESOME! Thank you so much for your detail. I only wish I was going with them...I offered to be their personal tourguide if they bought my ticket but they aren't biting!

Kristina that menu is very impressive!

Eloise, thank you a million times for all the help you have offered, now and in the past. I will do some investigating; I think your idea is a good one. I love your, "attenzione alle borsa!!" comment. I am going to come back with heaps of questions, so watch out. Now, tht spaghetti with artichokes is getting cold but we can heat it up for you; I kept aside some of the pasta cooking water just in case!

Oh, one more thing: I remember seeing the Gore Vidal house in an article in the newspaper. It was up for sale and there were photos of the interior and exterior. Quite a palace. Do you think I should start a new thread with discussion of a possible future trip to Campania? We can intersperse our food chatter..??

Franco, I hope the Greek ferry schedules are not getting you down. I must have missed the planning of the Greek trip..can you divulge where you are headed? I hope lamb will be on the menu. One of these days you must get yourself to those lamb eating parts of Spain north of Madrid!

You are quite the sleuth, Franco, tracking down Delfino in Cetara! The bottle I bought looks like it was purchased on the site..it does not even have a commercial-type label attached, jsut a little card attached to the neck of the bottle by a string.

The garum recipe is going onto my kitchen counter (with the other scattered recipes!!) to be tried very soon.. I am expecting a new delivery of pasta from that place in the Bronx (Borgatti Ravioli) this week so will keep the recipe handy. I would guess that this ingredient is not so hard to order. Here is Delfino's e-mail address for those who might consider contacting him:

DELFINSRL@tiscalinet.it

There is no web site listed on the bottle.

Franco, shudder to think that I mentioned jarred artichokes. On second thought, you are right, the flavor is not so great even with the olive oil. From Taormina two years ago I brought home artichoke hearts that were vacuum packed in a plastic container. I was so pleased with my purchase but when I opened them I was horrified. They tasted awful..drenched in preservative. Sure enough, I checked the label and they were packed in sunflower oil with some kind of preservative (citric acid?) added.

Well..breakfast is waiting...I wonder if I should sample some crema di carciofi with my toast? Seriously, that product is so good...I am kicking myself for not buying it in Italy recently.

I think it is widely available, Susan. My bottle comes from Chiusanico (Imperica)..Franco or Eloise can tell us where that is...
I am sure I bought my jars in a supermarket..maybe that Billa market in Venice...

ooops..the crema di carciofi is from Imperia, not Imperica... On second thought, I think I will save it for later in the afternoon and not sample for breakfast!

Thanks, ek, I'll look for it. Sounds so good...

http://www.frantoiobianco.it/ita/creme.htm
http://www.intuneweb.com/anticofrantoio/form.htm

EK, I just wanted to agree with Eloise about Sorrento. I think it is definitely the wrong place for a foodie like yourself. Its main advantage, IMO, is that it is easy to get from there to other places you might want to see in the area like Capri and Pompeii. We were there for 5 days and only found one restaurant we really liked (La Fenice). A lot of restaurants were closed when we were there off-season, but even in November the town was jam-packed with English-speaking tourists. There is no doubt that you would eat MUCH better in Naples, although the city itself is very much a matter of personal preference. I thought it was fascinating, but my husband hated it. And honestly I don’t know if I’d want to stay in Naples -- we only visited for a day to see the museum.

Thanks for all your great Rome recommendations. We hope to get to Trattoria Monti later this month when we are in Rome just for a couple of nights. Have you ever eated at Ristorante Melarancio?
http://www.ristorante-melarancio.it/index_en.html
Their sea bass with paper-thin potato crust is one of my all-time favorite meals. (The web site doesn’t give the complete menu, and it isn’t shown there.)

NonnaFelice: Thank you for the tip on the restaurant. I don't know it but will save the information for next time. Even thought I thought I did lots of research on eating in Rome, there is just so much richness there that a week was barely enough time to even scratch the surface, not only with food but with everything else that that city has to offer...it is a place that I hope I will be fortunate enough to revisit many times.

Glad to hear you second Eloise's opinion on Sorrento. Pubs and chips do not sound so appealing... I will get busy soon with my research on a possible trip to Campania; this would not be until the first part of next year, unfortunately.

I agree with what Eloise wrote earlier. Spectacular scenery is great but I do not want to base a trip around it. So many people here seem to focus on Positano; that is great for honeymooners and people who want to swim and do the resort activities. But I can relax at home! Also all of the trekking up and down the steps seems like it would wear thin after a day or two. {Is Amalfi also built into the hillside??) Since I will not be going in beach weather, I would like to be in a more accessible spot than Positano, I think. I really have not given this any thought yet...still considering other options. (Italy has so much to offer...I now understand how some people have given up on all other countries and just keep returning to Italy year after year..)

I am torn about Naples. I have been there twice and do not remember being afraid both visits were brief and a long time ago and from what I hear, safety is more of a concern now. I have to say that my feelings are colored by a bad experience I had in Palermo two years ago..although I was not hurt it has made me a little more hesitant to travel to a destination that has such a reputation for petty crime. On the other hand, maybe I am being a total ninny..after all I live in New York so an not unused to big city situations....such a dilemma..we should all have such problems, right??

I think I should start a new thread.."help ekscrunchy plan her next Italian eating extravaganza..!"

Apropos of the artichoke discussion above, I just learned (from travel tv show on PBS) about an artichoke festival held very spring in the Tuscan town of Chiusure. I am not able to find details about the dates, however.....

Ok, this isn't going to be a posting; it's going to be a novel.

First, artichokes festival, Tuscany: "Chiusure in piazza", April 23rd to 25th. http://www.slowfoodcrete.it/index.php, for who can read a little bit of Italian.
Google reveals (always in Italian, though) there is a second carciofi festival there in November, when they're cutting what seems to be the "crosta di carciofo" (they have a different name for it in Chiusure: carduccio). That's a stem like a cardoon (the artichoke's nearest relative, and much, much worse for the one who must clean it) that has, as far as I'm understanding it, to be cut away in autumn in order to gather artichokes (the plant's buds) in spring. No, I've never eaten croste di carciofi, but reportedly, they're excellent, too.

Second, Imperia, that's the westernmost province on Italy's coast - Liguria, near the French border.

Third, Eloise with a German Studienreise in Amalfi and Ravello, that serves you right (for your rejoicing at the thought of me, eating moussaka - brrr). In revenge, I can imagine you visiting Ravello with a bunch of German Oberstudienräten, who all must have known their Richard Wagner by heart. (I guess I'm definitely falling from grace with Eloise now, but anyhow, already my donkey salami above may have been sufficient to achieve this state of disgrace, since she didn't even react to it. Or was it the "rompicoglioni" for that certain Venetian poster? Imagine, having been banned from Fodor's only on Friday, he's already back since yesterday, under a new screen-name...) Ok, to be slightly more serious again, Ravello is of course an interesting place for opera buffs, as well - Ravello's medieval Palazzo Rufolo, and it's sumptuous garden, were Wagner's inspiration for the realm of Klingsor. German Oberstudienräte apart, though, every opera lover should count this among the dark sides of his passion - Parsifal is certainly Wagner's worst work, both on the level of inspiration (the music living on craftsmanship only, plus faint echoes of long-gone creativity, a typical late work) and, above all, on the level of ideology, which features Wagner at his truly most disgusting in this work (worse, IMO, than even Siegfried or Meistersinger).

Fourth, Sorrento. What I'd like to file here is not a protest (Eloise and nonnafelice have been pretty convincing on that town), but just a reminiscence, obviously not relevant anymore… I have actually fond memories of Sorrento, and especially of eating in Sorrento! The town has a small second harbour in a separate small bay, a somewhat hidden quarter; and there, we found a simple but nice trattoria with simple but nice food, mainly grilled fresh fish, and nothing but fruit for dessert – but memorable fruit indeed! Theirs were the best peaches and the near-to-best figs I've ever had in my life. Ok, this was back in 1989, and I guess the trattoria won't be there anymore.

Fifth, Greece. Yes, ek, I'm going on a Greek islands tour this year: Athens & Attika, Dodekanisos, Cyclades. We had been talking about it here and there with Eloise, but you didn't miss much, it hasn't been a major issue.

Sixth, garum vs. colatura d'acciughe. Reading carefully again about the Cetara "garum", and thinking about it, it's certainly a heir to ancient liquamen/garum (to make that clear, too: liquamen is the usual Latin name; garum was the less frequently encountered name, it's the Latinized form of Greek garon, and the Greeks were in fact the inventors of liquamen/garon), and that's why oregano goes into it – liquamen was always prepared with some herbs. But it's also different: they're simply draining the liquid from salted anchovies, stored in cool dark cellars. So that's what we can have (in way too small quantities, of course) at home, too, when marinating our own anchovies in salt – after a few weeks, inevitably, a limpid liquid emerges, and that's the colatura, quite obviously. Ancient liquamen, however, was the product of fermentation; they would heavily salt the anchovies (or whichever fish they were using) and expose them (seasoned with herbs) to the summer sun in barrels until they were fermented. Surprising as this may be, the salt prevented the raw fish from spoilage. I imagine this product to have been quite salty… But there were many recipes for liquamen, and another, maybe less widespread, attracts me much more: putting the raw fish and the herbs into grape must, i.e. young wine; the fermentation, then, was the normal development from must to wine, and the result, I imagine: a fish-wine. That's how I'm substituting for liquamen in my kitchen: rinse salted anchovies thoroughly, chop them, cook them in mild white wine with sage and rosemary for just a few seconds, let stand in the refrigerator for at least a few days (no problem to store it for many months, it grows even better).

Seventh, Kristina – two of the dishes you've prepared for your friends are Apician favourites of mine, the Alexandrian squash, and the patina de piris. My problem with Gozzini Giacosa is that she is actually trying to adapt the recipes to modern palates, and I strongly disagree with that approach. I, for one, want to come as close as possible to the original flavours, be they however strange and alien to modern usages. And much as I like Nuoc Manh, the Vietnamese fish sauce, and closely as it seems to resemble ancient liquamen (both being fermented fish sauces, in any case), I doubt somehow that this is the taste that is required for Apicius recipes. I try to deduct the taste of liquamen from the (minority of) recipes that don't involve liquamen – that should give us a fair idea of how they were used to season their dishes. And those dishes are always delicately seasoned, perfectly equilibrated, and no hint of very strong or powerful seasoning. And given that, Nuoc Manh should be the real thing? The ancient Romans used to poach their meat, fish, vegetables, whatever, in nothing else than liquamen & oil, or liquamen, wine & oil, which means covering the main ingredient with mostly liquamen… which would certainly give a VERY strong taste, if we think of Nuoc Manh…

Ok, I don't want Fodor's server to break down from being overloaded by one single posting (this one), so I'm stopping here; if anybody is interested in further essays on ancient Roman cooking, just advise; you may have noticed that this is a subject inciting my loquaciousness…

Franco, I have just been reading a book on Cicero, plus watching the HBO series on Rome, so I am in the mood for ancient Roman trivia! Thanks for all those interesting tidbits.

Re Sorrento: I think ekscrunchy, like me, prefers to travel off-season. We found that there were practically no restaurants in Sorrento open down in the harbor area in November. It was a lovely place to walk, but very deserted off-season. One problem witih Sorrento is that it pretty much exists entirely on tourism, unlike Naples which has a life of its own. So if you go outside of the main tourist season, what we found were still lots of tour groups getting bused in for the cheap off-season rates, but many of the restaurants had closed for the season.

EK, I have heard that Carla Capalbo’s "Food and Wine Guide to Naples and Campania" is very good, and I am thinking of buying it for our next trip farther south in Campania.

Nonna, thank you for the information. There is something very dreary about a town which is battened down tight like you describe. I have to rethink this idea...I am wondering about Amalfi. Just the fact that there are a number of SlowFood restaurant recommendations in that town (and only one in the Positano area and I think, not many in Sorrento (have to check again on this last fact) )makes me think that there will be at least something going on in Amalfi the off-season, as I do not think that the SlowFood recs are geared to foreign tourists..could be wrong again here, though. I have some more thinking and planning to do, and more questions to ask.

Franco, you endlessly amaze. To imagine that you are actually making your own liquamen! And that you are able to offer a tratise on garum and colatura! Here is yet another coincidence of Eloise's..little did I imagine when I purchased the "garum" on a whim last week that it would spark such a fascinating dialog. Franco, opera cape and patent slippers aside, I am now utterly convinced that you are a culinary scholar, perhaps a professor of history with a specialty in cuisine through the ages. Given your interest in food and opera, I am almost convinced that you are Fred Plotkin! Since more than likely you are not Fred, howver, I am wondering again if you have any comments about his Italy for the Gourmet Traveler book, or any of his other Italian food books. There is one on Liguria and one on Friuli-Venezia-Giulia.

Seriously now, I grant you the liberty to "pat yourself on the back" for all of the information and ideas that you continue to contribute here. You certainly made me laugh with your comments to Eloise about her ordeal with the Uber Student Wagner mavens!

Eloise, where are you?


So what do you think..if you had a week to spend in any region and you preferred not to do much driving...??

Nonna..I am going to look at the Carla Capalbo book. I think she has a new one out; I remember seeing a notice about it recently. She also has one on Tuscany.

What do you all think of the Faith Willinger book on eating in Northern Italy? Eloise, forgive me if I asked you this a long time ago...

ek, sorry - I don't know any of Fred Plotkin's books, and since I should know books that I'm supposed to have written myself, I guess I'm not Fred Plotkin.

Making your own liquamen is indeed easy - a matter of 15 minutes, at the most. You know, should you ever plan on trying it, where to ask for recipes...

And I realize that I failed to add the most appropriate information on crema di carciofi: perhaps because this information is actually fitting into this thread's original topic, and I'm taking pride in being always off-topic... seriously, if you want to taste really, really excellent Farfalle con Crema di Carciofi, there is a (rather surprising) place to do so in Rome: Al Presidente, two steps from the Trevi fountain (so normally, a big no-no - tourists alert!!). This, very surprisingly, is a very good restaurant, though of course not cheap (rather, on the contrary), and I whole-heartedly commend their crema di carciofi.

Eks,

I was wondering whether you could recommend a good restaurant in Trastevere--either one that you have personal experience with or one that you have done research on.

I have to thank you for all of the great recommendations so far. My husband and I will be in Rome and Florence in Sept (which you probably know because you've already answered many of our posts) and we have religiously been printing out this trip report and the one from Florence, Tuscany. Thanks for all the advice so far and getting me addicted to this site!

You are very welcome, Greene. Unfortunately I have no recommendations for Trastevere but I would suggest looking at the SlowFood website and asking Franco here, who is not Fred Plotkin, by the way. I could look at my lists but having not tried the places, I feel odd about recommending them. Well, here is one SlowFood choice for that area that I happen to have on the list next to my seat here:

Dal Cordero, Pzza. Portuense, 4
I know there are others in Trastevere among their Rome listings. If you have trouble with their site, let me know and I will see if I can get the names for you.



Franco, I hope you are not peeved at me for my outrageous speculations. You are not Fred Plotkin; you are your own person and a fascinating one at that!
Thank you for the tip on the restaurant. I am happy that you are still willing to recommend places to me since I failed to heed your advice in Rome recently!
I LOVE anything to do with artichokes so will put that one on my list for certain. And I think I will attempt to make my own crema di carciofi soon; the only problem is that we do not get so many good fresh artichokes here although they are available much of the year. Frankly, they are a little bit of an aggravation to prepare but how can I say that with a straight face when you are toiling away in your own kitchen on all of these amazing recipes!

So please, no hard feelings..about Fred or about the opera cape idea....eks.

ps, Do you know any good places in Trastevere?

Peeved, not at all. I always enjoy our communications, honestly! As for your artichokes problem, the solution is quite easy: next time, you'll have to spend two weeks in Rome, and rent an apartment - one week of restaurant dining, one week of home-cooking... Needless to say that Rome's markets are full of excellent artichokes.

Trastevere: I have one and a half places to recommend. Le Mani in Pasta, in Trastevere itself; and beloved Sora Lella, which is only two steps from Trastevere (i.e., crossing half the Tiber until arriving on tiny Tiber island). For details, please see my Roman food thread (I don't want to write ONLY extensive postings here): http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34792415

Thanks to both of you! Franco, I am going to look at your thread right now.

Franco I am glad you are not "peeved at me for my inquisitiveness and for my outlandish speculations!
I am missing our chatter...just notice your comments about the restaurant at Ostia Antica.

Soon, I will begin a new thread in which I will begin to obsess over a new Italian destination. I am having second thoughts about the Campania idea....

Just to prolong the pleasure of our "conversations," I will ask you about bottarga. I have never tasted it and am tempted to give it a try. What are your thoughts? I can buy it here in New York; there are a few sources that seem to be not too outrageously priced. I have seen it here grated and packed in jars, and also whole and vacuum packed.

Is bottarga it mullet or tuna roe? Or both and if so, which should I ask for? And more important: 1.The taste. Fishy enough to repell certain persons who are not enthusiastic about eating fish?
2. Recommended preparations..simply shaving on top of pasta? Do you or anyone else here have favorite recipes?

Yes, what a pity that this report, and the according chatter, had to come to an end... and that Eloise doesn't show up! I wonder where she may be!

Bottarga is a name for the roe of several species, most important those that you mentioned: mullet (muggine) and tuna (tonno, as no doubt you'll know). They're as different as mullet and tuna are, and both are potentially excellent... BUT: bottarga quality differs widely - two problems are common: too much salt; or a dull, fusty taste. It's normally, but only as a very general rule, preferable to buy whole pieces and grate it yourself.
Good bottarga is really excellent, so please, if you shouldn't be lucky on the first try, give it a second, and a third - you'll just need to try which one is the best.

Answering your two final questions is easy: 1. yes, 2. yes. Very fishy. And simply shaving: mix cooked spaghetti with butter (room temperature, 1 to 1.5 tablespoons per person), sprinkle with minced hot peppers (don't be stingy, it's intended to be a relatively hot dish), small quantities of pepper and salt, and finally, with the bottarga. Serve on pre-heated plates.

Bringing to the top for recent poster..

Franco, thank you for the bottarga tutorial. You never cease to amaze. One of these days I am going to find an Italian ingredient so obscure that you may have to think for a full 5 minutes before answering!!

And where is Eloise?

Oh, you already managed to find that ingredient - the Cetara "garum"! That one took me quite a while to research...
Yes, where's Eloise? While she showed up here on Feb. 10th last time, she posted on slowtrav (a site that I thoroughly dislike, but knowing she's active there, as well, I paid a visit recently) on the 13th... I hope all is well with her!

Ok Franco..do tell...more about your opinion of SlowTrav...(???)

Well, while I think the "regular" site with all the travelers' reviews is a great source of information, I don't get by with the forum - for me, it's not only over-moderated, I also think the moderators are extraordinarily dislikable. They have a way of slating users with whom they don't agree that rubs off on the posters as well... no moderating moderators indeed!

Ek and Franco, you are too nice, and you are making me feel so guilty!

I’ve been lurking, on and off, but not posting. Why? Because it’s been below -15 C for weeks and weeks, which has made me extremely grumpy. Whenever I started a post, it came out very mean-spirited and disagreeable. I know, I can be sharpish at the best of times, but this went beyond sharpish...

Please do keep up the conversation, and when (if?) it thaws, presumably so shall I and I shall rejoin the human race.

P.S. I agree totally with Franco about the moderators at SlowTalk. A fairly clear distinction emerges over time of sheep vs. goats, of those on the inside and those banned to the outer fringes.

Eloise, mean-spirited can be ok, too! Even the best of us (!!) are guilty of that and I certainly can't blame you with that kind of cold outside. And here everyone is crying about the cold when it is a balmy 15 or so today!! Anyway, I like reading cranky comments once in a while; I certainly make more than a few on this site... And cranky or not, we've missed you!

I have to take a look around the SlowFood site just so I can see what you are both referring to. The only area I have really looked at is the restaurant review section and I did not find many of the reviews to be discriminating enough. (Now who is being mean spirited!!??)

Ah, Eloise, I'm relieved that you are well (ok, apart from being grumpy - which is perfectly understandable with temperatures like those...).

BKM

Franco (and Eloise..where ARE you?), imagine my surprise when I opened a mail order food catalog tonight and noticed this:

http://www.zingermans.com/Product.pasp?Category=&ProductID=P%2DCOL&Target=&ShippingAddressID=

Yes, it seems to become famous - no doubt thanks to our discussion on Fodor's
Just that it is not true that the method of producing the modern colatura is more or less the same as for ancient garum; we still have to get this point accepted, too...

yum... thanks.

...and thanks to our expert here, we already know that the methods are different!

EK, I'm leaving in 2 weeks for Italy and will only be in Rome for 3 days (dinners). You're report was sooooo helpful!! If you only had 3 restaurants to go to, which of the 3 you mentioned would you say were a must? We're staying near the Termini station. Can't wait to go to the SMN and will definately scope out Pizazza di Pietra. Wish I spoke some Italian!!

I just had to say - I thoroughly enjoyed your report(s) and printed them out to get restaurant ideas for Rome!

Dear ekscrunchy--my mouth is watering after reading your restaurant descriptions. We had settled on Trattoria dell'Orso in Orvieto, but according to their website, they are closed Sundays. That is the day we will be in Orvieto for lunch. Do you (or anyone) know of any good restaurants for lunch that will be open on Sundays?
Thanks for any info you can share.

Ek, this is fabulous! I am the last one at work tonight, sitting here reading your report! What a great storyteller you are!

I second Diamond's question, if you had to choose 3 restaurants for a 3 night stay, which would they be?

Thanks@

topping for John Mango..

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Ek, I have just finished reading the entire trip report. Thanks so much for taking the time to write with such wonderful detail. I am going with some friends for a week in October and I look forward to trying many of the restaurants that you mentioned.

Bookmarking for my November trip.

Glad you found it useful...there is some wonderful food awaiting...happy eating!

ekscrunchy,

Would you consider Armando al Pantheon a splurge or special dinner? Or how about Trattoria Monti? Your descriptions of both of them sound great.

I'll be in Rome for 4 nights and have pretty much figured out where I want to dine for 3 of the nights.

Thanks!

Monica (F))

Enjoying your fabulous trip report so far - I love the food descriptions.

I have not finished reading all of it but wanted to share a few bits of info-

The English language version of the Slow Food guide has been published (Osterie & Locande d'Italia: A Guide to Traditional Places to Eat and Stay in Italy). I got mine on Amazon.

Also for those of you who have Plotkin's Italy for the Gourmet Traveler, a new version has come out. I ordered it but 99% of it is the same as the old version.

There is a cookbook now out of print which may be available on used markets - Biba Gaggiano's Trattoria Cooking which has a list of many excellent restaurants in the back. This is a book I use often - in the kitchen and in planning travels in Italy.

Thanks again, eks.

Monica, it depends on what you consider a splurge, but I ate at Armando al Pantheon twice in July. Appetizer, an entree and a half, dessert, small water and 1/2 bottle of wine was just over 40E. The second time, an appetizer, entree, vegetable, water and 1/2 bottle wine was 30.50E. Not really overly expensive.

Monica,

At Armondo's I had the veal and roasted potatoes and my husband had the lamb chops. It was all very good, and with a bottle of wine and water our tab was 60 euro. We usually budget 30 euro for an average dinner price each, so this was definitely in the resonable range IMO.

EK, thank you very much, leaving soon and your report really helps with many details.

I'm not necessarily looking for a splurge but a good meal. Sounds like Armando's is a good place for one.

Thanks!

Monica

Glad you enjoyed..and happy eating!

Re: Armando's..it is a warm, convivial family-run trattoria where many, but not all, of the offerings are excellent. I would hate it if people headed there with expectations of having THE transcendent Roman meal..

Hi ek, how are you? I must take the opportunity to caper this thread since I see you're around: I've had a request recently here on Fodor's to open a thread on Istanbul! Well, I know the city quite well, but don't consider myself a real expert, and I promised I will try to write something, but hope that ek joins in and helps - my impression is that you know Istanbul REALLY well. Will you?

Ok, sorry - back to Armando's & related!

Franco..I have one foot out the door, so to speak, but just had to respond and say hello! I have missed you and I know I am not alone in this. I have not been here as much recently..but will be back more or less "full time" soon..more very soon..cannot keep my sister, and a good meal, waiting!!

Such sad news today in the world of opera.

As others have said, Monica, Armando al Pantheon is good but not a must-go-or-die place. My sister and I had an excellent meal there, but in Rome so much of this is what you order, often. I can't remember what my sister had, but I remember my lamb chops vividly. I am a sucker for lamb chops. Also, it's the kind of joint where, if you are there with your sister, they make you feel as if you are a couple of supermodels. Supermodels who must get every bit of meat off the bone.

ekscrunchy, in case you see this, I believe you are off to S. Africa sooner or later. What would you recommend for NY innovative Italian (not red sauce, please) for a funky, scene-hating but excellent-food-loving San Franciscan?

Well if Armando's isn't the place for a great meal, do you have any other suggestions?

Thanks!

Monica

Leely..Yes, I am off in about two weeks! I have already been asking my endless questions about dining there on the Africa board! If you do not mind eating at a counter, head for Desgustacion in the East Village...

Monica, you will have an excellent meal ...I think you can count on it. But I do not recommend the guinea hen, that was the only misstep there for me..

Indy..my report on two meals at Matricianella is below..

Leely & ekscrunchy:

...it's the kind of joint where, if you are there with your sister, they make you feel as if you are a couple of supermodels.

What a timely observation! My twin sister and I are going next month. We rented an apartment at nearby Pza Rondanini and had pretty well chosen Armando's as our "neighborhood hangout". We like to frequent one place...feel like regulars. The remarks here have pretty well sealed the deal...sounds perfect! (And if someone can make me feel like a supermodel, all the better. LOL!)

Thanks for the info.

Bookmarking and making a lot of notes! Thanks ekscrunchy and others

JeanneB...We are also renting an apartment next month at Piazza Rondanini. We're looking forward to eating at Armando's. We'll be there from Oct.18-25. How about you? Genie

I will be in Rome Oct 11-16 and found your wonderful discussion with Fraco et al. I was particularly fascinated with the prospect of having pajata and had put da Nerone near the top of my restaurant list. As I continued planning I encountered nothing but bad reviews of da Nerone and have just now refound your initial post which also says it was bad except for the pajata. Before I scratch Nerone completely, could you tell me whether pajata is a seasonal dish that I am not likely to find in October or if there is a good restaurant where I might find it?

Since ek doesn't seem to be around, I'm allowing myself to answer on her behalf... no, pajata is no seasonal dish, it's available all year round. I don't know Nerone, but I absolutely recommend eating pajata either at Checchino dal 1887 (the most famous place for that dish) or at Pommidoro, a place that I first visited last thursday, and their rigatoni con pajata were perhaps even better than Checchino's. Watch my "favourite Roman food" thread, where I'm going to post details soon.

Thank you very much franco--I've just added those to my list. Don't know where you live, but some dishes I love down here in South Carolina (especially things like chitlins and stone soup) are only available at certain times of the year when animals are traditionally slaughtered. My eating list for Rome is already much longer than I will ever get around to in 41/2 days. I leave a week from today, so I hope you have your new thread up soon so it will help me sort through what I have and get the food list down to something half way reasonable.

ttt

reposting for Phyllish..for shopping in Rome info..

eks, I can't remember where I asked the question, but wanted to thank you for the perfect rec of Degustation in NYC. It was exactly what I was looking for.

The hostess had me at "I love your scarf," and everything thereafter was equally as pleasant (and excellent!). My friend and I each had tasting menus with the wine pairing. We loved it--wonderful food, warm and low-key service. Many thanks.

Leely, I am so glad that you liked Degustation! I have not been in a few months and will have to get back there soon!

bookmarking for 30th anniversary trip in May 2008. Thank you for a fantastic report.

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Thanks, ekscrunchy. I've copied all 24 pages of your report

I know it will be a wonderful help in our fall trip!

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Here is the website for Armando al Pantheon:


http://www.armandoalpantheon.it/home.php

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Ekscrunchy, Hi I think I might have confused you, but yes I havent been to these boards for awhile and Im not very good at going back and forth, Okay I found this post about hotels in Rome and you have posted something about the Albergo del Senato. I made reservations back in October 2008 and they quoted me 295 Euro for our stay in July 2009. But the rates seem to have gone down considerably. I made the reservation directly with the hotel, because I read that was the best way to try to get a balcony with a view even if they dont guarntee a balcony. Anyway I am thinking if I should rebook under another name or just ask them for a current rate? I really do still want a room with a view and balcony, but should I try to get a better price?? I am in the middle of your trip report and it is so perfectly detailed I have gone back to it several times to write down all the restaurants and get a feeling of the best since we will only be there 3 nights. Thank you for your opinion.

When we went to Paris 2 years ago I really budgeted on the hotel and I was sadly disappointed and I dont want that to happen again. But I did save some money, but the memories are still very vivid

TT: Did you see a lower price on their website for your dates? If so, I would write to them and let them know. Emphasize the importance of getting one of the balcony rooms facing the Pantheon. (Remember, though, that the balcony itself is small. The view is the most important element here. I am not sure whether or not two people can sit in chairs outside at the same time).

Let them know how much you have been looking forward to your stay there, and that you booked so far ahead, but now see that they are giving a "small discount." The longer you are staying, the better your chances are, in my opinion.

I have never used a third-party website (Expedia, Venere, etc) to book a hotel because I feel (though not substantiated) that I will get a better room assignment. And I like to establish a relationship with the concierge so that I can book restaurants ahead of time. You could probably do this even with a third-party reservation, I suppose.

I am so glad you found the report helpful. Although I have not returned to Rome since I wrote it, I do have some updated restaurant info that I will share when the time get closer.

Are you going to book the Scavi tour? Is this your first time in Rome? Where else are you traveling?

I agree about the hotel budgets. If the difference is not substantial to you, it is often better to spend a few more euro and get someplace superb, or at least pleasant. I've stayed at some pretty terrible places over the years, but I do find that the entire experience of being in a city can be colored if your hotel is unappealing.

Granted, you can find nice properties at better rates than the Senato, but it IS a special hotel. Give it a try and let us know what happens!

eks, thanks for your input, yes I agree making reservations with the hotel if possible makes for more personal touch. so since I felt maybe I didnt want to bicker for a lower rate just in case they werent agreeable to this,like maybe room assignment, something like sending food back you never know happens.
Anyway I did reserve for Scavi and am super excited.I also tried to get Francesca (maybe it was another post who had taken your restaurant suggestions), but she is busy. So I am working on a guide at this point. I am doing something sacriliges for this forum, I am actually taking a tour, I mean a 10 day tour with bus and everything. My family thinks I am the tour guide and leave everything to me and well on our past 2 trips to Europe this was fine, but now I feel there is so much info that I honestly cant provide for both lack of time and desire. But the tour is only for 1 day in Rome and we will be there 4 days, so I was trying to set something up with a good guide for a few hours. Well I still have to sit down and write all the restaurant suggestions you have made. There is another poster who went with her mother during Xmas and used some of your suggestions. Thanks again

I know what you mean about being a guide! It can be exhausting.

Let me know what happens if you decide to ask the hotel for a reduction.

I am sorry Francesca is booked. But I do have a few other suggestions; I will give you this one first. Alan Epstein is the suthor of a terrific book about living in Rome.

The rates on his site are on the high side, but write to him and ask him about pricing.


http://www.astheromansdo.com/private_tours.htm

Never mind the bit about the rates on the site; I don't see them, so you have to write to him and ask.

ekscrunchy- I am still compiling my questions for you but going thru your trip reports has been way more than helpful. Was wondering if youve been to the rebirth of L'Impero -now Convivo?? Loved and miss the sublime polenta at L'Impero but had a burrata appetizer this week for lunch at Convivo and was stunned as had nothing like this before. In fact my only burrata experience has been at The Standard in Miami<g>. Absolutely amazing-- I am now wondering where in Italy to find the best versions of this amazing cheese.
We will be going South starting in Venice with stops in Florence, ROme and the Amalfi Coast in August.

Convivio is excellent! And the full dinner is a very good value, too. They are charging $58 for four courses and are very flexible about the courses. So you could choose an appetizer, two pastas, and one main course, for example, if you want to forego dessert.

While you can probably find burrata in the 3 of the cities you will visit, you will be astounded by the quality of the fresh cheeses in the Amalfi area. You can take a trip to a mozzarella producer south of Salerno (easiest with a car; see my trip report from last spring for details on the "caseficio" that we visited).

But even if you do not go that far afield, you can sample the cheeses on the Amalfi Coast. The town of Agerola (in the hills above Amalfi) is one of the cheese centers of Campania and the fresh cheeses can be found in many shops and restaurants on the coast.



I will bring up the report and add the information on a cheese maker in Agerola.

As usual, I read too fast and see that you already dined at Convivio. I did try their burrata and agree emphatically!

You probably know this if you live in NYC, but in case not, both DiPalo and Agata and Valentina, and probably many other places, receive shipments of burrata twice a week or so. Di Palo also makes their own. I've never bought it here because I never seem to be in those stores on the day the cheese arrives. But just wait until you taste those cheeses close to the source!

Yes I do live in the city and A & V are in my nabe. Love DiPaolo too but dont make it down there too often. my office is right around the corner from Tudor City and we snuck in there for a quick lunch for our anniversary his week. We actually Our waiter told us that the place has been getting huge raves and ironically it had just been written up in NY Mag for best fried potatoes of all things- we forgot to order those! I have read your rome and a.c. trip reports with relish. Ironically are also staying at the Albergo del Senato--

I saw that bit about the pecorino potatoes! That is one of the dishes I did NOT try.

I could not find a recipe for those,but did find this one from Chef Michael White; looks worth trying.


http://nymag.com/listings/recipe/spaghetti-con-ceci/

When looking online for a recipe, I came across this one which shares some similarity of technique with the sformato we loved at Trattoria Monti discussed above.



http://www.italianchef.com/sformato.html

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lbrawer on Jul 30, 09 at 02:35 PM
This is a re-post of an earlier comment in a different question-- any help would be appreciated!
All my must-do's eating wise appear to be closed in August (La Matricianella, Armando al Pantheon, Da Baffetto, Trattoria Monti, Felice e Testaccio and so many more!) However there appear to be quite a few good options left-- (Perluigi, Giggetto, Ditirambo, Dar Poeta, Antico Arco etc etc to name just a few).Note: NOT COMPLAINING-- am thrilled to be in Italy for our first trip WHENEVER!

I'm really stuck on the first night-- we are staying at Albergo del Senato and will arrive from Florence probably early afternoon. I was counting on a few hours walking around the Piazza Navonna and environs, a few gelati and then more simple dinner at Armando. So I'm just a bit confused--I had counted on staying in the neighborhood but am not coming up with any great options. Someone on Chowhound recommended L'Angoletto, there is Cul-de-Sac and I know several people have commented on Cafe St. Eustachio.
I should also mention that we'll be with two teenage sons who would likely be thrilled with pizza.
So-- any ideas would be most welcome- an option is to hike to Ai Marmi and just do the pizza. AM also really interested in Hosteria Romano which was just written up in the NY Times as well as Tratorria Da Gino which received raves on a few blogs.
Finally, is anyone familiar with Ristorante Santa Lucia in the Piazza Navona area? It was written up as a great find, and open for dinner on Sunday.
Thank you everyone for reading this long winded message.

LB: Do you mean the SlowFood Dal Cavalier Gino? This is a very traditional, cash only place within a walk of the hotel. But my guide has it closed in August. I am thumbing through a few notes and I am surprised at how many places close during this month.

I don't know Santa Lucia.

DO NOT DESPAIR. You will be able to eat well, it just takes more planning, and perhaps either a longer walk or a taxi ride at dinnertime.

What about sending an e-mail to the hotel, if you have not already done so, and asking for a few hints about nearby places that will be open during your stay. Then we can debate their merits.

Some ideas here?


http://rwapplewannabe.wordpress.com/2007/01/21/august-2006-rome/

Despairing but just a little. Yes, that's the one-- I have seen it called by both names-- I "thought" I had read that it was open but that may have been wishful thinking. Will check the link you sent.

Have not yet asked Albergo del Senato for ideas yet-- they told me a few weeks ago to send them my wish list but since then I shortened it considerably! I will try that tactic now--

Don't go to Santa Lucia unless you want to pay high prices and derive pleasure from the fact that movie stars eat there.

lbrawer- That's really unfortunate so many places are closed in August. However, Rome is filled with wonderful places, many of just off the usual tourist radar. If you are willing to walk around and take some chances, I know you will find something.
There's a place I read about on Chowhound called La Fiametta. It's supposedly nice, simple, and has excellent Eggplant Parmesan. I meant to try it when I was there last year, but never made it. I'm going back in October and hope to get there then. The best thing? They are open on Sundays! Address, Piazza Fiametta 10.
For gelato, I highly recommend Frigidarium which you can walk to from your hotel. It's right across the street from Da Baffetto.
I don't know if it will help you, but I have a trip report here with lots of food recs, as well as on my website with photos. www.wired2theworld.com

Finally, you might get more replies to your questions if you post them as a separate thread because not everyone is going to come and read this one, considering it's an older trip report (sorry ekscrunchy!)

eks- I just got back from Vietnam last week and used some of your recommendations. Thanks!! My trip report has been started over on the Asia board.

Kristina thank you. Your trip report was inhaled during my planning phase! It was wonderful. Will certainly look into la fiametta. A recent chowhounder posted a short list of what IS open this month . When I crack night one I'll feel on safer ground. Welcome back!

LB: We are in a similar situation. We are in Rome at the end of August and, after compiling a list of where to dine, most of those are "chiuso" in August. We may coast off of the names you posted.

EK: thank you for that link, we will have to look at that.

We may indeed "fall into some place" but with such good food options in Rome we are always better off with a place in mind to head to.

Lbrawer: I don't know what's going on. I'd swear I responded to you yesterday about CUL DE SAC, but I can't find my post.
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We liked Cul de Sac. Casual atmosphere, good menu selection and everything was good. I think they say "no reservations", but we dropped by late afternoon and they told us what time to come. Can't remember details, but we didn't wait long.

FIAMETTA: This may be my favorite...we've eaten there several times. Facing Hotel Geneo on Pza Fiametta, walk around the right corner and the resto is right there. Everything I've eaten there was piping hot and delicious. Little pizzas are fabulous. Once had a spinach crepe that was out of this world (maybe a winter thing). Supposed to have good steak, but we've never ordered it. Really, everything is good.

Here's a clue: You will see lots of "collars" here. I didn't know it was a Vatican favorite. Last year we were next to a table of 3 men, two of whom were in clergy robes. The civilian man was American and struck up a conversation. Then one of the bishops asked him to translate a question for us: how had we happened upon the "best restaurant in Rome"?

There are two rooms...ask to be on the left where the little bar and pizza oven are. There are tables outside, but we haven't been there in warm weather. Reservations a must unless your arrive early. They're also open for lunch.

Both of the above are very near your hotel.

Matricianella: Another to have on your list. This was the first place I ever ate in Rome. Classic Roman cuisine, all very good. Some reviewers say tourists aren't treated as well because it's a place for Rome regulars. We didn't experience that. Anyway, it's a little farther from your hotel, so keep it as a fallback. Also, very good gelato shop in the adjacent Pza San Lorenzo.

Oops. Sorry, just saw your note that Matricianella will be closed.

How could I forget another absolute favorite?!

La Sagrestia
Via del Seminario
(practically on your hotel doorstep!)
06 67 97 584

Another we've visited multiple times, both lunch and dinner. To me, this is the ultimate little Roman restaurant. From the pizza crust appetizers to the whole-fish entrees (try one), you can tell they're all about a "celebration" of food. Fun, almost boisterous, atmosphere. We've loved everything we ordered here....meanwhile drooling over whatever they're having at the next table!

Go!

OK, too many choices...too little time! We will be in Rome in September (Sun 20th-Weds.23rd.) If you could pick only six of your ABSOLUTE favorite restaurants what would they be?
eks-thanks for the link to the trip report from August 2006

Thank you ALL-- Ironically I had just stumled upon some other raves of La Fiametta and was so busy calling Venice (same situation for some of the places I REALLY wanted to go to- Vini di Gigio in particular) I never got back to the phone until, I guess after their lunch hour. Did OK in Venice though, all things considered, luckily.
Both places, in fact all mentioned above sound perfect.
One last question if anyone could please comment on is Gigetto vs Piperno? )(Artichokes a key factor )

Giggetto is a mid-market trattoria. Piperno is more expensive, more a special-occasion place and considered better by people who should know.

Artichokes are not in season in August in Italy, but places that specialize in them get them from somewhere throughout the year.

There is a new book on food and wine in Rome that has just come to my attention; I've read other books by this author and have high hopes for his latest effort:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1892145715/ref=pd_luc_mri?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

Thank you for your food report on Rome, eks.

Based on your reviews, Keith and I plan on dining at Ditirambo and Trattoria Monti (the onion flan will give me DREADFUL hearburn, but I just have to try it) whilst in Rome.

We also plan on dining at Buca di Ripetta, a suggestion from Bookie.

Thin

Thinster:

Buca di Ripetta is good, too. I will be eager to read about your escapades!

Another resource for Rome restaurant info:


http://www.romanelpiatto.it/Home.asp

Not to " rain on the parade" of good reviews for Ditirambo...but our last trip to Rome we tried it for the first time with great anticipation. Was very disappointing and it was our least favorite meal.

How in the spring can you have asperagas risotto made with mushy, canned, asperagas and be considered a good restaurant? Maybe we just ordered their non stellar dishes but nothing would make me want to eat there again.

Really liked Fiametta...went twice.

To each his own.

Just curious how you discerned the fact that they were using canned asparagus.

Hi eskrunchy (always enjoy your comments)

I always hated asperagas as a kid probably because my mother used canned. When I grew up and devleoped an interest in food and cooking I discovered the vast difference between fresh vs canned asperagas. The difference in taste is impossible to miss. Do you not know when you are served canned peas over fresh?
I do not mean to prolong this discussion but one of the other diasppointing aspects of the risotto at Ditirambo was how mushy it was. I have always been served it a bit al dente which is also how I make it. Maybe it is unwise to expect to get good risotto in a restaurant.

Fortunately Rome has many other very good dining options and that alone is a good enough reason to return again and again to such a fabulous city.

Well, it really doesn't matter because neither Keith nor I would ever order risotto with asparagus.

Jesus H Christ, I would be happy with just a bottle of Barbaresco with an Percocet chaser.

Living in the Valley of the Dolls,
Thin

Carol: I am sorry that you had a bad experience. I, too, am flabbergasted that a restaurant in Rome would use canned asparagus. After all, (fresh) asparagus is not expensive in season, and canned asparagus can actually be quite pricey. (I now have a few cans of white asparagus from northern Spain sitting on my shelf--I lugged them home from my last trip to Spain)

All I can comment is that in my experience, Italians often cook their vegetables much longer than is the fashion in some US kitchens...


I am not a big risotto fan, but I did manage to make a fairly good asparagus risotto last spring, with this recipe:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/02/dining/02mini.html



Thinster: Sounds good to me! Happy travels, and happy eating!!

ekscrunchy,
We are headed back for 2 weeks in Rome this October (and our first night we plan to eat at Ditirambo. It's usually a tossup between there, or Settimios near the Pantheon).

Is there a link to your report, or is there a way to print out your report, without all the other comments?
If you could e-mail it my email is nimshew1@aol.com

I remember reading this when you originally posted it and I was able to "favorite" it to my aol Rome folder. It is still in there, but, of course, it is refreshed each time I open it.

BTW, one of my favorite food books on Rome is D.Downie's "Cooking the Roman Way".
A friend has his newest book and is raving about the restaurant reviews.

Thanks~