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Rhine/Mosel - 5 days September

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Old Mar 8th, 2015, 04:13 PM
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Rhine/Mosel - 5 days September

Four friends, driving a car from Heidelberg, arriving at Bingen day one, in the morning, leaving Koblenz by train day 5.
This is our plan, what do you think?

Day 1: arrive Bingen from Heidelberg (1.5 hrs) for 9:30 or 10:30 am KD cruise to Boppard (?or St.Goar); lunch and afternoon in Boppard (or St.Goar?); train back to Bingen late afternoon. Drive car to Bacharach hotel for dinner and evening.

Day 2: drive to Trier (1.5 hr) in am, spend day here, maybe a walking tour, see the Roman ruins.
Late afternoon, drive to Cochem, check into hotel, dinner & walk about town.

Day 3: take cable car to castle in am, see falconry show and drive to wineries in afternoon
OR rent bicycles and tour wineries on bicycles for the day,
stay 2nd night in Cochem

Day 4: drive to Mosselkern early am, hike trail up to Burg Eltz Castle, tour, return down trail for lunch at hotel in Mosselkern. Drive north(1 hr) to Marksburg Castle in Braubach; tour castle. Drive to Kamp-Bornhofen (15 min.) for our last night at castle hotel Burg Liebenstein.

Day 5: after breakfast, leisurely drive to Koblenz, to leave rental car and board 2pm train for Munich.

Does this look like an okay plan? Do our driving times look realistic? Would you rearrange and/or change anything?

What do you think about the one full day in Cochem - we would like to do a bike winery tour - is it possible to do the Castle in the morning, then do a bicycle winery tour afternoon? or would it be better to do driving tour in afternoon if we wish to do castle in the morning... or forget about the castle and just do bike tour for the day. Where do we get info on biking tours in this area? Best to do on own, or hook up with a group (if possible)? Other recommendations?

Thx!
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Old Mar 8th, 2015, 06:17 PM
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Day 1 in Boppard: maybe take the chairlift and enjoy the view and a beer or whatever at Gedeonseck (not the establishment right next to the top of the lift) a short walk off to your right from the top:

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/3475980.jpg
http://www.boppard-tourismus.de/24-1-Sesselbahn.html

Day 3 - there's no cable car to the castle. There's a shuttle bus, or you can walk. It's not a bad walk up. There is a chairlift ride elsewhere in town. I would make a point of going to the castle for the falconry show and the view but with your other castle tours I don't think you need to tour this one. And if you check out the view from the castle, you don't really need to do the chairlift too:

http://www.burg-cochem.de/typo3temp/...a3f7291433.jpg

There are numerous wineries right in town - no need to drive anywhere. Here are two of them:

http://www.weingut-rademacher.de/en/
http://haxel.de/?lang=en

Day 4: You might castle yourselves out here. I'd be tempted to see Marksburg on Day 5. It's a 1-hour tour. There's no big hike for this one. And it's on your way to Koblenz. On Day 4... After Eltz and lunch, I'd suggest a stop in the adorable wine town of Winningen instead. It's also on the river road near Koblenz and on your route to Braubach:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com
/4120/4745527870_9850deb0ee_z.jpg
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/3475980.jpg

Sorry, don't know anything about bicycle winery tours or bicycle tours.
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Old Mar 8th, 2015, 06:20 PM
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Use this instead of the bad link in my post above:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4120/...50deb0ee_z.jpg
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Old Mar 10th, 2015, 05:16 AM
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Fussgaenger, thanks for your tips.

Day 1 - Is an evening in Bacharach enough?

Day 2 - Does it make sense to fit Trier into our travels (have heard so much about this city) - initially we were planning 2 nights Bacharach or Boppard (which became one night when we decided to fit a castle stay in at the end), 2 nights Cochem, but decided to change our route to fit in Trier and, other than the need to get an early start on the road from Bacharach, it seemed to fit well, as an extended route to Cochem.

Day 3 - it looks like there are bike rentals by the train station in Cochem and I read where you can cycle part of the Mosel and take the bike back on the train(didn't know you could take cycle on the train). Looks like the first falconry show at Reichsburg Cochem Castle is 11am, latest 4pm, so thinking we could spend a good part of the day cycling/sightseeing/stopping along the Mosel and plan to get back in time for the falconry show, or alternatively, head out on cycles at noon with no time restrictions of when to be back in the afternoon. (too bad the falconry show isn't earlier in the morning!)

Day 4: again, would like earlyish(?sp) start for Burg Eltz - have read about coming out of the forested walking trail with the castle seeming to appear out of the mist (I know, depends on weather and time of year... but sounds so cool!); a stop in Winningen sounds like a good idea. And an earlier than later arrival at our castle hotel in Kamp-Bornhofen is appealing esp. since we have booked the half-board.

Day 5: Seeing the Marksburg Castle (which seems to be only 15 min. drive from our castle hotel), enroute to Koblenz seems to work perfectly as we don't need to be in Koblenz until 1pm to allow time for car rental drop-off by train station and board two-something train for Munich.
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Old Mar 10th, 2015, 05:48 AM
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You can hire a bike in various villages, often the tourist information stop for varying times, I'd go to google maps, zoom in on you villages of choice and type in "Fahrradverleih" and see what lights up. Tend to be the three speed back brake type which is great for the bike paths.

Note that you can use the train to get back to your car if the legs don't go round any more, tastings all over the place, you'll see signs
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Old Mar 10th, 2015, 05:56 AM
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bicycle-winery tour - is that a good idea?
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Old Mar 10th, 2015, 07:13 AM
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"Is an evening in Bacharach enough?"
Yes. Very small place.

"Does it make sense to fit Trier into our travels?"

It just depends on how important the Roman ruins are to you. They are pretty ruined. I enjoyed the Dom (cathedral) in Trier more than anything else there. If you don't feel like making the trek to Trier you'll find a couple of minor Roman remains in Boppard too:

http://www.boppard-tourismus.de/15-1-Roemerkastell.html

If you are into leisurely cycling you might just head from Bacharach straight to Cochem instead of Trier. If you don't have time to see St. Goar on Day 1, you can do that on Day 2 on the way to Cochem in place of Trier. The main attraction is Rheinfels Castle - you walk through at your own pace and enjoy the view, and you're done. You'll get to Cochem much sooner this way, I imagine.

Bike shops in Cochem:
http://www.cochem.de/tourismus/fahrradverleih

A lot of small B&B and apartment owners offer bikes, either for free or a small fee. You might look at that when you book in Cochem. To get the names of all the places with bikes, go to this page in German:

http://buchen.ferienland-cochem.de/i..._anzeigen_id=1

Then click on the bicycle icon and hit "Suchen" (search) and 3 pages of inns with bikes will show up.

(There is an English language alternative for the above site but it will NOT give you all the hotels - only those hotels that have bothered to provide English language text.)
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Old Mar 10th, 2015, 01:08 PM
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Here is what I would do.It is nice to have a plan but remember the only thing fixed is your 4 nights accommodations and your one meal at the castle hotel on day 4.

Day 1.I think you should start your KD cruise in Bacharach.You will still see best part of the river, eliminate the need to return to Bingen to pick up your car, gives you more time for off boat activities. The cruises from Bingen get to Bacharach in 45 min. Drive Heidelberg to Bacharach passing Bingen (1.7 hrs) for 10:15 am KD cruise to Boppard ; lunch and afternoon in Boppard . Train back to Bacharach afternoon- Options: Could stop in St Goar on way back from Boppard, could cycle Bacharach towards Bingen or St Goar in afternoon, could explore Bacharach.

Day 2. I think you should eliminate Trier. This will eliminate the issues of Day 3. Drive to Bernkastel-Kues in am,see the Marktplatz medieval street scene with its half-timbered houses.See the Spitzhauschen.
Drive to Cochem, taking the river route passing Traben-Trarbach, Zell, and other villages in time to visit the castle and the Falconry show. Check into hotel, dinner & walk about town.

Day 3. Cycle day.Rent at KD boat kiosk or get at Radsport Schrauth helpful service and advice on a cycle route. Could even cycle to Burg Eltz.

http://www.tompgalvin.com/places/de/...alz/cochem.htm

"The Mosel Valley is a wonderful place to take a bike ride. Cochem to the Berg Eltz can be done at a leisurely pace since it is entirely flat, and the scenery is absolutely fantastic."

Day 4. Burg Eltz if not seen on Day 3. More cycling? A Mosel cruise? More Rhine? Marksburg?

Day 5: after breakfast, leisurely drive to Koblenz, to leave rental car and board 2pm train for Munich.
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Old Mar 10th, 2015, 05:00 PM
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Wow - you fodorites are a wealth of knowledge and amazingly helpful!!

Taking the Rhine boat cruise from Bacharach makes a lot of sense. Will check out the Roman ruins in Boppard.
Too bad we couldn't rent a bike in Boppard and cycle back to Bacharach and leave our bike there...

Will consider the alternate suggestions vs Trier...it would add more flexibility to our days for sure.

We have already booked a hotel in Cochem - the info says it is located right by the pedestrian area, next to the chair lift and hiking paths, 600 metres from Cochem castle, and one of the reviewers said the train station is just down the road (I know to take all this info with a grain of salt...) - no mention of having bikes available but will have to ask - and I do remember reading somewhere that one can rent bicycles near the train station. Thanks for the list of cycle shops! Do you know if one needs to reserve a bike ahead of time from one of these shops?

I just took a look at some of the Cochem pictures from above website - I love the "municipal taxi" train! Very cool!
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Old Mar 10th, 2015, 05:32 PM
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"Taking the Rhine boat cruise from Bacharach makes a lot of sense."

Have to disagree with the advice dugi has given on starting there.

That would shorten your 2.3-hour cruise to Boppard to a 1.5-hour cruise. If you need to save those minutes, OK, but that is NOT the best 1.5-hour cruise - you will miss out on some very good scenery. If you have to cut a segment, cut the somewhat less impressive St. Goar - Boppard segment and cruise from Bingen to St. Goar (1.5 hours.) The whole Bingen - St. Goar trip is VERY good - here's some of what you will miss if you start in Bacharach...

Burg Ehrenfels and Mäuseturm: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ngen_Rhein.jpg

Rheinstein: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Rheinstein.jpg

Burg Reichenstein: http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/12154619.jpg
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Old Mar 11th, 2015, 04:24 AM
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Thanks for pointing that out and again, for the pictures.
Bacharach does seem to make sense from a driving point of view, but wouldn't want to miss the river views from Bingen.
All thoughts appreciated!
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Old Mar 11th, 2015, 09:05 AM
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"The Mosel Valley is a wonderful place to take a bike ride. Cochem to the Berg Eltz can be done at a leisurely pace since it is entirely flat, and the scenery is absolutely fantastic.">

enitrely flat - no way Burg Eltz sits high high above the Mosel Valley - biking up there from the river would be very strenuous for some - now it is totally flat to Moselkern from where you can take a foot path twisting up thru the forest to Burg Eltz - one of Germany's most famous castles - once pictured on the 500 Deutsche Mark banknogte before the Euro came in.

Burg Eltz and Marksburg (burg= castle; berg= town) are about the only two wholly intact autyhentically old castles on this part of the Rhine and the Mosel - most others having been knocked down thru eons of war in this strategically important militarily area.
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Old Mar 11th, 2015, 12:01 PM
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it looks like there are bike rentals by the train station in Cochem and I read where you can cycle part of the Mosel and take the bike back on the train(didn't know you could take cycle on the train)>

Yes most local trains take Bikes for a fee but after Cochem there are few rail stations on or near the Mosel as the train tracks inland from there - Zell, a sweet wine town and famous for Zeller Black Cat wine that was a rage in the States a few decades ago - does have rail service as does a few other towns. Boats I understand will also carry bikes. Usually in Germany you load your own bike in the baggage car I believe. But always ask at station beforehand - Cochem's train station used to rent bikes but fussganger has given you a complete list - hotels may have bikes too as the Mosel is one of the premier biking venues in Europe with bike paths hugging at least one side of the river the whole way to Trier.
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Old Mar 11th, 2015, 03:56 PM
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"Yes most local trains take Bikes for a fee but after Cochem there are few rail stations on or near the Mosel as the train tracks inland from there - Zell, a sweet wine town and famous for Zeller Black Cat wine that was a rage in the States a few decades ago - does have rail service as does a few other towns."

Actually, there is no railway station in Zell.

From Cochem, the main train line hits 3 Mosel towns on the way to Trier - Ediger-Eller, Neef, and Bullay - before moving away from the river altogether. There is also spur line from Bullay takes you to other Mosel towns including Reil and Traben-Trarbach. So what this means is you can bike upstream along the Mosel a very healthy distance and still hit towns with rail stations, and still jump on a train with your bike.

However, I would strongly caution you to locate the station-towns I've named above prior to hitting the bike trail because the train cuts off very large river loops... From Cochem to Ediger-Eller, the next station, you'll spend only 4 minutes on the train... but on a bike you will pedal 21 km to reach Ediger-Eller!
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Old Mar 11th, 2015, 06:59 PM
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Again, you are all a wealth of information!
Does anyone know if it would be safe to lock up a bicycle in Moselkern, so that one can walk the forested trail up to Burg Eltz Castle?
I guess that is also assuming bicycle locks are provided with the bikes...
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Old Mar 11th, 2015, 07:04 PM
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Also, which would be the best route to cycle? South of Cochem or north? Which route would be more picturesque? It looks like there would be more villages to visit if we went south, (for a day bike ride)but it sounds like the ride north would be the easier ride. Anyone know if the ride south is a difficulty one?
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Old Mar 12th, 2015, 07:11 AM
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biking up the Mosel IME of years of doing that is that you may face a headwind as winds typically blow down the valley IME - but unless winds are strong the Mosel upstream from cochem - to Beilstein and beyond is a bit more gorgeous than going south as gthe river starts its sinuous loops upstream from Cochem.

Yes I would lock my bike at Moselkern without worry.

If you want a long bike ride you can take a train from Bernkastel-Kues back to Cochem too (rail bus from Kues to a town on the rail line several kms off the river - train tracks still go to Bernkastel-Kues (a lovely town) but passenger service was withdrawn years ago and a bus takes over - but do not think you can put your bike on buses so a short ride away - but it is a fairly long trip to Bernkastle from Cochem (though our bike trips did it easily in one day - we were going with the wind however).
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Old Mar 12th, 2015, 09:51 AM
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My daughter and I did some biking on the Saar and Mosel Rivers two summers ago (and the upper Rhine last summer). It's about an enjoyable way to see this area I can think of.

Be aware that there are some services that will transport your luggage from hotel to hotel for you, if you wanted to simply rent a bike and Trier and head towards Koblenz. I think it takes about four days to do the trip at a somewhat leisurely pace. A lot of people end in Tries-Karden, which makes it a 130 km/80 mile trip.

We took a train to Cochem and had a rest day followed by a short bike trip to Bielstein and back. This is only 12 miles round-trip, so not too hard. Time didn't allow us to bike the entire Mosel from Trier to Koblenz, but I sure wish we had, and it's on my list of things to do.

By the way, we started our biking in Saarlouis. The Saar goes through some more rural and less developed areas, but we found it very pleasant biking. Someone wanting a longer trip could start in Saarlouis or Saarbruken and bike to Trier, then down the Mosel to Koblenz, then up the Rhine to Bingen. Serious bikers could do this in four or five days. Fat, out-of-shape people like me who just want to tour probably should allow 10 or 11, or perhaps a full two weeks if you want to linger a day or two in a couple of towns. I know this isn't exactly what you're asking about, but just wanted to pass it on for those who might be interested.

It's a great area; I hope you enjoy your trip.
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Old Mar 12th, 2015, 09:56 AM
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PalenQ, let me test my understanding. Isn't Cochem to Beilstein to Bernkastle downstream, not upstream? Do you get headwind cycling from Cochem to Bernkastle?
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Old Mar 12th, 2015, 10:18 AM
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Getting to Burg Eltz from Cochem.

By bike- 18km bike ride to Moselkern. 6km (1-1/2 hr) hike thru the forest to the castle.

By car- You can drive to the castle parking lot about 1 mile from Wierscheim. This leaves you with a 10 min walk to the castle. there are also shuttle vans to the castle from the parking lot.
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