caseyhen

DH and I (fit, late 50s early 60s) are flying in and out of Berlin in mid-late August for a 16-day trip. I know, I know, open jaw is better but this is what we have, so no option to change. We've done our research - never enough of course - and considered what we enjoy, including a nice balance of countryside and cities. Here's what we have - last city is where we sleep...

Arrive Berlin 8 a.m., train to Dresden - Dresden
train on to Prague - Prague
Prague
Prague
Prague
train to Munich - Munich
Munich
day trip to Salzburg? - Munich
P/U car, drive through Bavarian Alp, Oberramergau - Mittenwald?
explore area - Mittenwald
to Neuschwanstein,etc. drive on to Rothenburg
explore area by car - Rothenburg
explopre area - /Nurnberg (drop car to get train to Berlin in a.m.)
train to Berlin
Berlin
Berlin
fly home

DH is inclined to drop Dresden stop, get straight to Prague, and add that extra day to the Bavaria portion of the trip. I'd also consider adding it to Muniich, which would give us enough extra time there to get out to Dachau as well.

Suggestions regarding keep/drop Dresden and about any other portion of the itinerary are very welcome. We have an apartment booked already for Prague (so hoping we could push it up a day if we decide to do that) and one for Berlin on the border of Mitte/Prenzlauer Berg. Both have washers, a big plus for me. I've had a much harder time finding a Munich apartment so may have to go with a hotel there.

We need specific guidance for how to spend our days in Bavarian Alps and Rothenburg area. If we have to choose, do you vote for Wurzburg, Bamberg, Nurnberg...I know they're all quite different and I think Nurnberrg is a must.

Thanks to all!

lavandula

Last year I did a trip that went roughly Vienna - Prague - Dresden - Weimar. I really liked Dresden and was glad I did it - although we were travelling with a child, and I wished we had had a little more time there. It's a very easy trip by rail to Prague, with some nice scenery. For an apartment with a washing machine: Apartments an der Frauenkirche. Located right in the tourist district. We stayed in the ones with the lowest standard (Muenzgasse) and they were still super - furnishings modern, very comfortable. Couldn't beat the location.
http://www.aparthotels-frauenkirche.de/

We also took a short trip out of Dresden and saw the Zeitreise-DDR Museum in Radebeul - a museum just of daily life in the German Democratic Republic. Great fun.

Lavandula

Ingo

It would help to know what makes your hubby wish to drop Dresden. What does he think Bavaria has to offer that he want to see/do more than the sights/activities in Dresden? Did you do research on Dresden and that didn't come up with exciting things to do for you both? Then drop Dresden.

Regarding Würzburg, Bamberg, Nürnberg - you would only have part of one day, right? And if the decision about returning the car in Nürnberg is already made then spend the rest of that day in this city - everything else would be too much of a hassle and waste of driving time.

Cowboy1968

If you want to make your trip most diverse, I would suggest to keep Dresden. It will add another distinctive flavor of archticture, history and cityscapes to your trip, in addition to the Czech, Franconian, and Upper Bavaria/Alpine parts.

Personally, I like Nürnberg the least of the three candidates you mentioned. The "historic" city center is more often ghastly new buildings from the 1950s- today than a decently restored ensemble of a medieval town. Though there are parts which look nice.

Bamberg would probably my favorite from overall appearance of an old town. But a bit too far away maybe from your routes.

Würzburg my second because of the Residence/Palace. Otherwise "downtown" Würzburg is quite okay but nothing spetacular.

Still I would not say that Würzburg was a must on that "exploration day" when you get to Rothenburg. As you will have a car, you may have more of it to use it to get to the smaller towns and villages in the area, visit monasteries and castles and spend time outdoors enjoying the nature.

wanderfrau

If it was my trip, I'd skip the Wurzburg, Bamberg, Nurnberg portion of the trip and save it for another time. Then you can add two more days in Dresden, and one more to Munich/the Alps. You won't see very much of Dresden in the short amount of time you have there. If you stay longer you'll get a chance to see some of the countryside along the Elbe.

If you must choose between Wurzburg, Bamberg, Nurnberg, I'm with Cowboy. Bamberg is my favorite and the best choice for an overnight, especially if you are a fan of more traditional gasthauses.

Michael

I would keep Dresden in the itinerary.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...30920764/show/

Aramis

Caseyhen;

I recall your earlier thread on this trip. Your DH must really not want to go to Dresden, because almost everyone recommended it for 2 nights, taking 1 night from Prague. It really does make sense to spend 2 nights after landing in one place (Dresden in your case) and since Prague is only 2 hours away, you can leave Dresden either early or late depending on how you feel about it after spending a day there.

So, just refining what I think you are listing here for nights;

Dresden 2
Prague 3
Munich 3 day trip Salzburg
Mittenwald 2
Rothenburg 3 drive to Nurnberg on last day to get train to Berlin
Berlin 3

An alternate, and my personal preference would be;

Dresden 2
Prague 3
Salzburg 2
Munich or Alps 3 day trip to Mittenwald/Garmisch/Neuschwanstein (meh!)
Rothenburg 3 day trip toBamberg/Wurzburg/Dinkelsbuehl/Nurnberg
Berlin 3

dugi_otok

Another input:
1.Dresden [arrive Berlin 8AM,train to Dresden]
2.Prague (or Dresden) [train from Prague]
3.Prague
4.Prague
5.Prague
6.Rothenburg
(night watchman tour)
[train from Prague to Nurnburg,drive to Rothenburg]
7.Rothenburg
(There is plenty to do in Rothenburg itself, but If you want to get out of town you can drive to Creglingen or to the Franconian Open-Air Museum in Bad Windsheim)
8.Fussen or Hohenschwanstein (or Garmisch/Mittenwald)
[Drive the not so Romantic Road from Rothenburg-possible stops Dinkelsbuhl*,Nordlingen, Donauworth, Wieskirche*]
9.Garmisch or Mittenwald
(Morning tour of Neuschwanstein and Hohenschwangau castles-pre reserve from home via internet will avoid the long lines)[Drive to Garmisch-possible stops Linderhof if not castled out, Oberammergau, Ettal]
10.Garmisch or Mittenwald
(Zugspitze if you have not been to the Swiss Bernes Oberland
11.Salzburg
[Drive to Salzburg via Alpenstrasse- could stop at Berchtesgaden if early enough]
12.Salzburg
(Sound of Music Van tour)
13.Munich or Nurnburg [Drive from Salzburg]
14.Berlin [train to Berlin]
15.Berlin
16.Berlin
17.Fly Home

We stayed here in 2010:

http://www.hoteledelweiss.de/english/garmisch.html

http://www.ente.at/

caseyhen

Wow, I love the forums. Aramis, you're right on, and through reminding me of your original suggestion, I was motivated to do a little more pointed research on Dresden, which I shared with DH on a drive home from NYC - captive audience and all. You, Ingo, Cowboy1968, and others (Paul, who has posted on other threads, for one) have given me just the information I needed. So...here is our itinerary with hotel reservations/ideas/questions, and a question regarding Bamberg:

Dresden 2 (yay! - considering Hotel Kipping since it's so close to the train station...it's a brief stay, and it sounds like Tram/walk into town is easy - I'm trying to avoid dragging bags on and off public transport as much as possible)

Prague 3 (have a wonderful sounding apartment in Mala Strana right on the river, just above the Charles Bridge, and was able to change our 4 night reservation to 3)

train directly to Munich, then

Munich 3 (need hotel here, may try to get something in the old center but nearer train station side, maybe Hotel Munchner Kindl or Pension Lindner or Pension am Jakobsplatz...would really prefer an apartment here, preferably with a washer, but not having as much luck finding a central apartment as I did for Berlin and Prague)

(While in Munich we may take a day trip to Salzburg by train, but can decide that then...would also like to see Dachau, perhaps. We will only really have two full days in Munich so we have some leeway in whether we want to stay put here more than venturing out. Would love to hear opinions, but this is not a big concern in terms of having to make reservations.)

rent car, drive through Alps, ending up in Mittenwald

Mittenwald 2 (staying at Gästehaus Edlhuber) - we will have the day we drive from Munich and a full day the following day to roam around the Alps by car! Hope to get to Oberammergau, Garmisch, maybe dip into Austria and drive by Plansee, etc. We've been to the Jungfraujoch in Berner Oberland, Switzerland, and up Mont Blanc, so Zugspitze doesn't seem to be calling our names. On our last morning, we'll head right out to the castles, spend as much time there and hiking thereabouts as we can, then drive on to Rothenburg on the A7, arriving around dinnertime - sound doable?)

Rothenburg 2 (may stay at Hotel Hornburg or possibly within walls at Hotel Gerberhaus, Hotel Spitzweig, Gasthof Goldener Greifen, or Hotel Altfrankische Weinstube am Klosterhof - getting responses from each at the moment)

drive to Bamberg, perhaps with a stop in Nurnberg or Wurzburg - still deciding which if either

Bamberg 1 - Drop rental car and spend late afternoon/evening in Bamberg (thanks Aramis, your idea again and train information was very helpful), then leave for Berlin mid to late morning by train.

Berlin 3 (apartment on the border of Mitte/Prenzlauer Berg, near Rosenthaler Platz station overlooking Weinbergspark.

So how'd we do?

Major question for today - don't see much information out there on Bamberg - Rick you-know-who doesn't even mention it. Any suggestions for hotels there and any specifics for places to go/eat/etc other than strolling around and seeing what looks interesting?

Thanks everyone...I'm almost excited now!

Next challenge - railpass or buy trip-by-trip tickets. The 92 day window is fast arriving! I may be posting questions about some of those details separately but also have seen in the past that there is wonderful information regarding navigating the train schedules already out there, so I'll do my searching before I ask.
N

Aramis

caseyhen;

Don't you just live it when a plan comes together?

For Dresden - Ingo is pretty much one stop shopping. Maybe if you shared your husband's initial reservations about it, Ingo could make some suggestions on how to best ensure that he ends up appreciating the nudges we have handed out. I don't know the Hotel Kipping but the train station is so close to the Altstadt that it would be cheap to take a taxi straight to your hotel.

Your Mittenwald portion sounds fine. I am not a Neuschwanstein fan, but you have given yourself the option of arriving early (do it!) and deciding how long you want to stay. It's a LONG walk up that hill.

Salzburg is my favourite "small city" in Europe. Munich, however, has at least 2 days worth of interest (says the guy who has been 7 times)

I have stayed at the Gerberhaus - lovely little place. Although it is on the main "road" into town from the South, it is away from the Marktplatz and just enough to make it a little less busy about. I have considered all the rest at one time or another, so just go with your gut on this one.

Bamberg - a place of personal pilgrimage for me and many other beer lovers.

http://www.bamberg.info/en/
http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/624

Check out the Hotel Brudermuehle, Hotel Weierich, and Barockhotel am Dom. They are all on the west side of the river, close to the Rathaus (coolest building in all Germany) the Dom and the area to be in if you have such limited time. Oh and "Schlenkerla" - ground zero for the pilgrimage;

http://www.schlenkerla.de/indexe.html

Not everyone likes Rauchbier (smoked beer), but it doesn't travel well so if you get an opinion from someone who didn't drink it around Bamberg, ignore it. Have it with the Bamberger Zwiebel.... aw geez there I go drooling again.

I am not familiar with the apartment you are considering for Berlin. It puts you about 1 mile from Museum Island, and a little less than 2 miles from the other main sites in Mitte; Brandenburg Gate, Reichstag, Gendarmenmarkt, etc. It also puts you only about 1/2 mile from Weihenstephaner am Hackeschen Markt, an outpost of a Bavarian pilgrimage site - the oldest brewery in the world and the finest wheat beer known to man.

I don't think that a rail pass will be the best option for this trip, but I am not a price and schedule expert. You have probably already discovered www.bahn.com

"almost" excited? I'm getting excited just giving this advice - Hamburg, Dresden and Berlin are on my schedule for June 15!

bettyk

Oh, we love Bamberg so I'm disappointed that you will have such a short time there. We have been several times and usually spend 2 to 3 nights there.

We enjoy the Altstadthotel Molitor for it's location, friendly staff and price. The rooms we've had are quite spacious as well. It is right around the corner from the Tourist Information Office as well as the Rathaus, shops, restaurants, etc.

http://www.altstadthotel-molitor.de/Index.html

The website is only in German but the staff does speak English and will respond to your email in English. For add'l info on the hotel in English:

http://www.booking.com/hotel/de/alts...FQdeTAod-R8v2Q

caseyhen

Thanks Aramis and bettyk for your Bamberg hotel suggestions. All of the hotels mentioned look wonderful, but we've run into an unexpected snag in our plan. All of these hotels - and just about all others that are within the central area - are sold out. It looks like something must be happening in Bamberg that weekend. Just our luck. I've written the three hotels you suggested, Aramis, to see if there's a chance they can offer us something even though they're sold out on sites such as booking.com. At times I've found that there are rooms available that aren't posted on those sites. Fingers crossed. Plan B would be to stay a third night in Rothenburg, maybe driving around on that second full day - possibly visiting Wurzburg/Bamberg and driving back to R'burg to sleep that night. Then we'd have to drive on to Bamberg the next morning to drop the car and get the train to Berlin.

Ingo

This itinerary sounds very good. Good hotel choice in Dresden - the hotel gets excellent reviews, really close to the train station and quiet location.

When driving from Munich to Mittenwald I recommend monastery Benediktbeuern, the lakes Kochelsee and Walchensee and from the latter the cable car up to Herzogstand. One of the best panoramic views in Bavaria!

Instead of visiting Würzburg on the way from Rothenburg o.d.T. to Bamberg I'd rather explore the surroundings of Bamberg - Basilika Vierzehnheiligen, Schloss Pommersfelden, Kloster Banz.

caseyhen

Bingo! Scored a room at Hotel Weierich, just when it looked like there wasn't a room left in beautiful downtown Bamberg. On to make our selection in Rothenburg - we have offers from Hotel Hornburg, Hotel-Gasthof Goldener Greifen, and Gästehaus am Klosterhof (Altfränkischen Weinstube was full and offered us a room there)all in the same general price range. Since we're driving in, I'm inclined to go with Hotel Hornburg, just outside the walls. We have horror stories (comical now) from driving in Lucca, our other favorite European walled city. I could be convinced to choose one of the others, but it sounds like we really can't go wrong with any of them.

And I think we'd better nail down the Dresden reservation tonight as well. Ingo, I was excited to get your approval of our itinerary. We must be on the right track!