heeney

http://www.theolivepress.es/2007/11/...-bullfighting/

Since I will be in Spain (Madrid, Seville, Barcelona) in the next two months, and since it is my first time, part of me feels compelled to visit a bullring and see a fight.
But since I have no desire to see a bull killed (though I understand and respect the culture of it) I was tempted to see what they refer to as "recortes". Apparently this is a Basque style in which the bull is not killed. Is anyone here familiar with it? Where, when, and how would I be able to attend one? I googled it but I'm not finding much.

Thanks again!

heeney

topping...

Any input on this?

stfc

OK, I'll bite. I am at a complete loss to understand the attraction of bullfighting. It sits as a festering sore on the backside of one of Europe's otherwise most delightful and civilised countries. I once found live coverage of a fight, taken through to its terminal conclusion on a Spanish TV channel in a hotel. I sat through it to confirm my views, or otherwise. They were confirmed.

Quite what the attraction is of goading and teasing a magnificent animal, already physically weakened deliberately, is beyond me. It was attacked continuously, streaming blood from its shoulders where it had spears stuck into it, by a team of men, some on horseback, dressed like escapees from a gay pride march. It became more and more wild and distressed until the final sword thrust killed it. It was going to die from the moment it came into the arena. Culture - my a**e.

That's my opinion for what it's worth. If men want to show bravery and skill to a crowd I can think of more convincing ways - boxing or wrestling for example, at least they are all volunteers.

I believe there are bull fights where the animal doesn't die in the Basque area, and in France somewhere. Still wouldn't go near them. There, that should set off a few Hispanophiles.

StCirq

Well, I'm not much of a Hispanophile, but the OP wasn't asking for your opinion, he was asking for information.

I haven't seen a recortes, but I've been to see les razoteurs in Provence, where they don't kill the bull, either. I found it a fascinating way to spend an afternoon, a unique slice of local culture.

Robert2533

Recortes are games that are played by teams from different villages or areas and involve vacas (bull cows) and a bull, a toro brava, the fighting bull. Vacas are also used in bullfighting and are just as dangerous as the male bull, so the games can get interesting at times, especially when you understand that the vacas have played the games before and are quick to learn how a person moves and can often anticipate that move. A few players get tagged every now and then by the vacas, which can be very dangerous, as the horns are not padded.

Recortes predate bullfighting, back to the time of the Greeks, so you can see that the games have been around for a long time. The games are more popular in the north, Navarra and the Basque country, but there are teams from several other locations in Spain that compete. The final game usually pits one lone player against a fighting bull.

You'll usually find Recortes at most festivals where bullfights are held, or at other special events or festivals held around the country.

longboatkey

In all types of Corridas de Toros, at a minimum, abuse the bull. Some forms to death.

hopscotch

I had a good time watching bull fights for an afternoon in southern France. I can't remember the name of the city but it was either Nimes or nearby.

The fighters took down about 6 of the beasts that afternoon. That is mercy after stabbing them in the back and teasing them. Then the bravos strut around the arena in their tights, bowing to the clapping crowd. I guess that it not too civilized, but it is part of civilization.

stfc

hopscotch - my case rests.

hopscotch

stfc,

No debate. I'm just reporting what I experienced.

But, there is a difference between sitting in a hotel room watching it on TV versus sitting in a sunny stadium with cheering fans. That's where the blood hits the dirt.

I have been to one boxing match. The bullfight had a more civilized crowd than the boxing match. Have you ever seen people standing up in an arena screaming their lungs out "Kill him!" It is pretty frightening. That was in Detroit.

zelphiacat

When I was living in Portugal I went to a bullfight (they don't kill the bulls there). I very much enjoyed the experience of the crowd and the pagentry, but I did not care for the actual bullfighting part. Even if they don't kill the bull It's not much fun at all to see them torture it.

stfc

The bottom line in all these responses is that the bull is tortured in some way - that is my point. I see no pleasure in watching that.

What I saw on TV was as a result of boredom, channel-hopping. I didn't pay to see it and could have switched off at any time. I stuck with it to see if I had been mistaken in my opinions, but sadly I wasn't. I didn't pay to go and see it deliberately as a form of entertainment.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a vegetarian, animal rights type. I have no problem with rodeo(I would like to see that one day), horse racing or hunting. I do have a problem with a fine healthy animal being crippled and then goaded until it is killed, with no chance even of getting away. That's not sport, it's uncivilised cruelty, a close relation of the Roman circus. None of the responses I've seen here so far would tempt me to change my mind.

And for the record I don't like boxing, but if two opponents want to knock six bells out of each other that's their privilege. They both get a say in the matter.