Railpasses and Italian IC Trains - Can Now Just Hop On!
Oct 31st, 2013, 12:38 PM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Railpasses and Italian IC Trains - Can Now Just Hop On!
One of gthe problems with using railpasses in Italy is that all but regional trains demand seat reservations before boarding and for many trains this means an extra 10 euro fee above using a day on your pass. But now Trenitalia has relaxed that rule in regards to IC trains - these now you can, with a pass (not with a ticket) just hop on and sit in any empty seat at no extra fee (or you can make a reservation for 5 euros I think)- IC trains are run similar routes to Hi-Speed trains but of course are slower and stop more often - but IME IC trains can be much less crowded than hi-speed trains and sometimes slower is better as IC trains take older routes, going thru cities like Orvieto, arezzo, etc while hi-speed trains often run on all new rights-of-ways with wind blocks, tunnels etc blocking the view - and the view itself could be better at speeds of 100 mpph rather than nearly 200 mph on hi-speed trains.
Slower IME can indeed be better and now those with a pass can just hop on IC trains at will.
So if you have a pass and taking an IC train you can just hop on it!
(This from a previous post on Fodor's by Man in Seat 61:
2) HOWEVER, one of the few 'improvements' I've seen for passholders is that last year (2011) Trenitalia REMOVED the requirement to make a reservation or pay any fee on IC trains if you have a railpass. In other words, if you have an InterRail or Eurail pass you do NOT have to make a reservation, you can just get on. The odd thing is, as all the seats are reserved but no reservation slips are used any more, you won't know which seats are free and may have to play musical chairs as people get on and claim reserved seats!>
So it may be hard to see which seats are reserved but I guess you can plunk yourself down in any empty seat and when the conductor comes by will steer you to one that is not to be occupied down the line.
Man in Seat 61 who occasionally posts on Fodor's has an excellent site that anyone planning a European rail trip will find very useful - www.seat61.com.
Slower IME can indeed be better and now those with a pass can just hop on IC trains at will.
So if you have a pass and taking an IC train you can just hop on it!
(This from a previous post on Fodor's by Man in Seat 61:
2) HOWEVER, one of the few 'improvements' I've seen for passholders is that last year (2011) Trenitalia REMOVED the requirement to make a reservation or pay any fee on IC trains if you have a railpass. In other words, if you have an InterRail or Eurail pass you do NOT have to make a reservation, you can just get on. The odd thing is, as all the seats are reserved but no reservation slips are used any more, you won't know which seats are free and may have to play musical chairs as people get on and claim reserved seats!>
So it may be hard to see which seats are reserved but I guess you can plunk yourself down in any empty seat and when the conductor comes by will steer you to one that is not to be occupied down the line.
Man in Seat 61 who occasionally posts on Fodor's has an excellent site that anyone planning a European rail trip will find very useful - www.seat61.com.
Oct 31st, 2013, 02:03 PM
#2
You need to provide a link from Trenitalia stating that (not a third party). I don't think I would rely on a post from 2011 since Trenitalia has made a lot of changes since then.
>>>or you can make a reservation for 5 euros I think)- IC trains<<<
3€ for IC trains, 1st or 2nd class with Global Pass or Interrail pass.
>>>or you can make a reservation for 5 euros I think)- IC trains<<<
3€ for IC trains, 1st or 2nd class with Global Pass or Interrail pass.
Oct 31st, 2013, 02:54 PM
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well Man in Seat 61 says that as of now railpass holders can ride without a reservation - www.seat61.com - I ssume Man in Seat 61 is as up date as Trenitalia - or more!
Oct 31st, 2013, 03:42 PM
#4
If that's on his site, then you should link it, but the Rail Europe website says otherwise.
****Here’s a list of trains that require travelers with a rail pass to buy a seat reservation as well:
In Belgium/France/Germany/the Netherlands: Thalys
In France: TGV and some Intercités day and night trains
In Germany: ICE Sprinter
In Britain/France/Belgium: Eurostar
In Greece: InterCity Express
In Italy: Frecciarossa, Frecciargento, Frecciabianca, IC, EC and Italo
In Portugal: AP and IC
In Switzerland: Glacier Express, GoldenPass, Bernina Express, Chocolate Train, Wilhelm Tell Express
In Spain: AVE, Euromed, Alvia, Altaria, Alvia, Arco, Avant, Diurno, Estrella, Talgo and Trenhotel
In Sweden: all SJ High Speed and night trains, and through journeys to Copenhagen
In Finland: Allegro and Tolstoy
Your rail pass is not valid for travel on the Italo trains within Italy or the Thello trains between France and Italy servicing such cities as Paris to Milan, Florence or Rome. You’ll need to purchase a train ticket for travel on these trains. And you will not have to add this date to your rail pass.****
http://www.raileurope.com/rail-ticke.../pass-faq.html
****Here’s a list of trains that require travelers with a rail pass to buy a seat reservation as well:
In Belgium/France/Germany/the Netherlands: Thalys
In France: TGV and some Intercités day and night trains
In Germany: ICE Sprinter
In Britain/France/Belgium: Eurostar
In Greece: InterCity Express
In Italy: Frecciarossa, Frecciargento, Frecciabianca, IC, EC and Italo
In Portugal: AP and IC
In Switzerland: Glacier Express, GoldenPass, Bernina Express, Chocolate Train, Wilhelm Tell Express
In Spain: AVE, Euromed, Alvia, Altaria, Alvia, Arco, Avant, Diurno, Estrella, Talgo and Trenhotel
In Sweden: all SJ High Speed and night trains, and through journeys to Copenhagen
In Finland: Allegro and Tolstoy
Your rail pass is not valid for travel on the Italo trains within Italy or the Thello trains between France and Italy servicing such cities as Paris to Milan, Florence or Rome. You’ll need to purchase a train ticket for travel on these trains. And you will not have to add this date to your rail pass.****
http://www.raileurope.com/rail-ticke.../pass-faq.html
Nov 1st, 2013, 01:03 AM
#5
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rail Europe is a subsidiary of FRENCH Railways, so not necessarily the best source for Italian info.
I must admit I have worryingly failed to find the info on Trenitalia.com itself (not the best-organised site there is) but it certainly shows Italian IC as reservation 'recommended' or 'optional' on the official InterRail website http://www.eurailgroup.org/Rail%20Pa...%20Passes.aspx and on http://www.interrail.eu/trains-europ...y/trains-italy
I must admit I have worryingly failed to find the info on Trenitalia.com itself (not the best-organised site there is) but it certainly shows Italian IC as reservation 'recommended' or 'optional' on the official InterRail website http://www.eurailgroup.org/Rail%20Pa...%20Passes.aspx and on http://www.interrail.eu/trains-europ...y/trains-italy
Nov 1st, 2013, 05:24 AM
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In Switzerland: Glacier Express, GoldenPass, Bernina Express, Chocolate Train, Wilhelm Tell Express>
well this is incorrect IME - Golden Pass trains do not require reservations - at least on most (if not all) of its segments - so much for using that source as reliable.
well this is incorrect IME - Golden Pass trains do not require reservations - at least on most (if not all) of its segments - so much for using that source as reliable.
Nov 1st, 2013, 05:42 AM
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I must admit I have worryingly failed to find the info on Trenitalia.com itself (not the best-organised site there is) but it certainly shows Italian IC as reservation 'recommended' or 'optional' on the official InterRail website>
curious as to what prompted you to say this in the first place - just the Inter-Rail site- you say "Trenitalia remeoved the seat requirement' - what was this based on if not Trenitalia as you seem to say?
curious
curious as to what prompted you to say this in the first place - just the Inter-Rail site- you say "Trenitalia remeoved the seat requirement' - what was this based on if not Trenitalia as you seem to say?
curious
Nov 1st, 2013, 08:22 AM
#9
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 8,378
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Switzerland:
Golden Pass and Wilhelm Tell Express: no reservation needed.
The latter is just a ordinary Interregio train with many intermediate stops(neither the most modern rolling stock nor dining car) with 1 (one!) panoramic first class car. Reservations make sense for this wagon only.
Italy:
Whenever you have no seat reservation and whenever it's possible, ask the train chief at the platform, before boarding the train. He knows best in which wagons are available seats.
Golden Pass and Wilhelm Tell Express: no reservation needed.
The latter is just a ordinary Interregio train with many intermediate stops(neither the most modern rolling stock nor dining car) with 1 (one!) panoramic first class car. Reservations make sense for this wagon only.
Italy:
Whenever you have no seat reservation and whenever it's possible, ask the train chief at the platform, before boarding the train. He knows best in which wagons are available seats.
Nov 2nd, 2013, 05:17 AM
#11
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It was originally a press release from Trenitalia, I think, an actual announcement when they made the change.
The trouble is, of course, that if they DID decide to revoke this, they wouldn't issue a press release, it wouldn't be 'news', it would just quietly disappear, leaving incorrect info all over the place on the web.
I'm a believer in 'positive negative information', as in "We used to have this offer, but we stopped it". However, as you'd expect, most commercial entities tend to expunge all mention of an offer when they withdraw it, leaving the poor traveller who has used the offer before, or heard of it somewhere, going round in circles trying to find it.
The trouble is, of course, that if they DID decide to revoke this, they wouldn't issue a press release, it wouldn't be 'news', it would just quietly disappear, leaving incorrect info all over the place on the web.
I'm a believer in 'positive negative information', as in "We used to have this offer, but we stopped it". However, as you'd expect, most commercial entities tend to expunge all mention of an offer when they withdraw it, leaving the poor traveller who has used the offer before, or heard of it somewhere, going round in circles trying to find it.
Nov 2nd, 2013, 06:38 AM
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I guess again the only way to know is to try it - or call some train station in Italy and ask that question.
No other source can be totally reliable as Trenitalia can always change policies - what is actually being done today in Italy is what counts. I would hope that the Inter-Rail site did just that but the Eurail site - used by RailEurope should also be up to date as RE used the Eurail site which is the equivalent on the Inter-Rail site and has nothing to do with RailEurope but I think from the Eurail Committee sitting in Utrecht, Holland (or was) - which bargains with individual railways and sets policies of use.
But those two sites conflict in this.
No other source can be totally reliable as Trenitalia can always change policies - what is actually being done today in Italy is what counts. I would hope that the Inter-Rail site did just that but the Eurail site - used by RailEurope should also be up to date as RE used the Eurail site which is the equivalent on the Inter-Rail site and has nothing to do with RailEurope but I think from the Eurail Committee sitting in Utrecht, Holland (or was) - which bargains with individual railways and sets policies of use.
But those two sites conflict in this.
Nov 2nd, 2013, 07:59 AM
#14
The Flessible fare wasn't listed for the current schedule. Essentially the Base fare took on those characteristics.
For PalQ and his IC train question. I found this in Trenitalia's T&C and prices which of course is only in Italian.
Translated by Google translate:
The owner of Pass Pass national and international dedicated to foreign customers can travel without any formality Express trains, IC and ICN.
To be assured of the place or to travel on other trains or with night services must purchase a ticket Global Pass, the amount of which is reported in Section
5 of Chapter 4 - Price List.
Excludes service levels Executive and 2 ^ P
remium and the cars Excelsior and Excelsior E4.
At Global Pass ticket conditions apply
Base of use of the ticket. There is no provision
Global Pass ticket without warranty of the place.
#7 and you need to remove the footnote and separate the sentence after the period after ICN or you will get something different that doesn't quite make sense.
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms-file/a..._Nazionale.pdf
Price - page 3 #5
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms-file/a..._Nazionale.pdf
For PalQ and his IC train question. I found this in Trenitalia's T&C and prices which of course is only in Italian.
Translated by Google translate:
The owner of Pass Pass national and international dedicated to foreign customers can travel without any formality Express trains, IC and ICN.
To be assured of the place or to travel on other trains or with night services must purchase a ticket Global Pass, the amount of which is reported in Section
5 of Chapter 4 - Price List.
Excludes service levels Executive and 2 ^ P
remium and the cars Excelsior and Excelsior E4.
At Global Pass ticket conditions apply
Base of use of the ticket. There is no provision
Global Pass ticket without warranty of the place.
#7 and you need to remove the footnote and separate the sentence after the period after ICN or you will get something different that doesn't quite make sense.
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms-file/a..._Nazionale.pdf
Price - page 3 #5
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms-file/a..._Nazionale.pdf
Nov 3rd, 2013, 07:00 AM
#16
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hat's off for wading thur the rather baffling trenitalia.com. I have a friend with a railpass going to Italy next week and riding IC trains so will give a first-hand report on this kind of debacle - even if rules say it IME sometimes conductors may not!
Again thanks for all that work.
Again thanks for all that work.
