nanaof4

I know there is a website that allows me to put in my itinerary and compare the passes vs. point to point tickets. I tried to do it on Rail Europe's site but it won't let me, saying the info is not available yet. My actual trip is in September but even when I put in dates for May it won't let me. I know someone on this forum helped me with this issue for my trip in 2011 and I would very much appreciate your help.

elberko

Is this it?

http://www.railsaver.com

PalenQ

Railsaver I believe uses full fare tickets to compare where you can easily book deep discounted tickets directly on sites of national railways - like www. bahn.de/en for Germany - in Switzerland a Swiss Pass, much cheaper than any Eurail Pass including Switzerland, is a great deal even if traveling only a few places - the only Eurailpass you would consider, unless traveling nearly every day by train, would be a Eurail Select Saverpass (if two or more folks gtrabveling together) valid in 3 countries - Switzerland, Austria and Germany - but a Eurailpass does not nearly cover as many things in Switzerland as a Swiss Pass would.

Swiss Passes pass not only on trains but lake boats (superb floats of placid Alp-ringed lakes), the iconic postal buses, city trams and buses and also gives free entry to 400+ Swiss museums and most importantly covers in full trains to many mountain areas that Eurailpasses either do not cover at all or just give a discount on.

Now if I knew exactly where in Switzerland you were going a Eurail Select Pass may cover everything you want - but if going to places like Zermatt, the Glacier Express or the fantastic Jungfrau Region - to me both the literal and figuratibvely highlight of Switzerland - Swiss Passes cover many trains Eurail does not.

There is also a Germany-Austria Eurailpass if traveling enough in those two countries - a Eurailpass lets you hop on virtually any train anytime (no surcharges in those countries) and compared to full fare tickets they can be a good deal if you want that flexibility - otherwise if you are content being locked in concrete and having to book weeks if not months in advance to get the limited in number discount tickets that could be the cheapest way.

Some great sites for loads of great info for planning a European rail trip - www.budgeteuropettravel.com (any questions ask Byron there - I have dealt with him for years buying passes and you will get the straight scoop from an expert IME); www.seat61.vcom - great info on discounted online tickets; and www.ricksteves.com.

IU would forget about railsaver.com - its only use really is that if it does say a railpasses is more expensive than you know a railpass is much more expensive - but the only way to compare fares is to compare real fares from the various national rail sites (www.bahn.de/en for Germany; www.sbb.ch for Switzerland and www.oebb.com (?not sure) for Austria. Figure in any foreign exchange charges your c card may impose for purchases in foreign moneys.

For Switzerland www.swisstravelsystem.com has a wealth of info on thatcountry's trains, buses and boats and aerial ca ble ways, etc.

kybourbon

>>>I tried to do it on Rail Europe's site but it won't let me, saying the info is not available yet.<<<

Winter schedules run through the second weekend in June. Summer schedules haven't been loaded yet. You will have to wait until they are to compare point-to-point tickets with a pass.

Railsaver used to let you compare (you would still have to wait until summer schedules are loaded) and you had to click "if less expensive". It only checks against regular prices and many countries have discount tickets on their own websites. Germany has discount tickets if you travel at certain times of the day, etc. and Switzerland has a lot of pass choices. There are also discounts for tickets between certain countries. It may be a mixture of some type of pass and point-to-point tickets is best for you depending on your itinerary.

PalenQ

With a Eurailpass keep in mind that if you are over 25 then you can only buy a first-class pass ifd it's a Eurail Select or Global Eurail and that IME of decades of riding trains in these country is a significant difference - 2nd class is not all that uncomfy but the big difference is that 2nd class may at times be chock full and first class in my many train rides with a first-class pass has always had many often empty seats - I can put my bags on an adjoining seat rather than fending for space in an already perhaps overcrowded high-up luggage rack and seat are bigger - two can easily always find two seats facing each other with a table in between them and rows of seats with just one seat in a row - an aisle and window seat both - 2nd class always has two seats in a row IME.

So when comparing railpass prices to ordinary ticket prices compared them to first-class tickets because if you are comparing them to 2nd class fares then that is like comparing apples to oranges IMO.

PalenQ

With a Eurailpass keep in mind that if you are over 25 then you can only buy a first-class pass ifd it's a Eurail Select or Global Eurail and that IME of decades of riding trains in these country is a significant difference - 2nd class is not all that uncomfy but the big difference is that 2nd class may at times be chock full and first class in my many train rides with a first-class pass has always had many often empty seats - I can put my bags on an adjoining seat rather than fending for space in an already perhaps overcrowded high-up luggage rack and seat are bigger - two can easily always find two seats facing each other with a table in between them and rows of seats with just one seat in a row - an aisle and window seat both - 2nd class always has two seats in a row IME.

So when comparing railpass prices to ordinary ticket prices compared them to first-class tickets because if you are comparing them to 2nd class fares then that is like comparing apples to oranges IMO.

Man_in_seat_61

In a nutshell:

Western European train fares now work like air fares.

For example, Paris to Amsterdam varies from 35 to 130 euros, depending how popular that date or train is,and how far in advance you book.

A Eurail pass is the luxury gold-plated option. It may possibly save money over the 130 euro full-price, it gives unrivalled freedom and flexibility IF you are willing to pay for it.

But the idea that you are 'saving money' with a railpass is outdated. You are in fact paying top dollar.

And remember there may be extra reservation fees to pay. From Paris to Amsterdam, the fee is 39 euros in 2nd class, actually MORE than the cheapest fare (which will INCLUDE a reservation) that can be bought direct online in advance with no booking fees.

If you just want cheapness, you can go online and buy the 35 euro fare direct from the relevant operator, this blows passes out of the water price-wise.

The only issue is finding which website to use for which route or train. I've attempted to do that at www.seat61.com/Europe-train-tickets.htm

Sites that claim to show point to point fares versus railpasses for US visitors often only show the full-price fare.

Here in Europe, we no more expect to pay the 130 euro fare Paris-Amsterdam, than you in the US really expect to pay the $2500 full-flex economy rate from JFK to London Heathrow! In fact, I bet most New York-London airline passengers don't even realise how high the air fare would go if they bought their air ticket to Europe at the airport an hour before take off! It's irrelevant for most people of course, as they go online to the airline a month or more ahead and typically pay $500. Trains now work the same way!

PalenQ

ttt

PalenQ

Man in Seat 61 misses one big point - some of us demand flexibility to hop which trains we want when we are there and not lock ourselves into some non-changeable non-refundable ticket that to secure, as they are sold in limited numbers, you must book often months in advance - fully flexible tickets can cost a ton so if wanting flexibility as some at least do that is one perk for a railpass in most countries (except Italy, Spain and France where you must have a seat reservation to board - except for on some French TGV lines these reservations are easy to get just before the train so you still have flexibility to decide once there what train I want to take and not be trapped by the 'I gotta be at the station at 8:57 or else' syndrome.

The mantra Man espouses and many others here is that cheapest is always the best - well not for me and some others at least - flexibility is a key to me and a railpass vs fully flexible tickets often is a great deal - even compared to 2nd class tickets whereas railpasses are usually only first class if over 25.

And I've seen cases where a series of discounted online 2nd class tickets nearly cost as much as a first-class pass with no flexibility. Check out the difference between online discounts and a pass - if it is not that great go for the pass with flexibility and also first class seating - significantly more relaxed than 2nd class IME.

And even making a series of online discounted tickets can be tricky and time-consuming and you have to have all your dominoes in a row because if you can't get the discount on one long segment then you'll have to pay full fare and that can cost a ton, etc. The deepest discount tickets have to be booked as soon as they come on the systems to guarantee so if your trip is three weeks you have to make the first train reservation 3 months or so from that date but cannot make the others until they come on - so you make the first few but find the last few are not available.

Anyway booking a series of online tickets involving various countries just ain't the piece of cake Man in Seat 61 and others make it sound IMO.

Price comparisons is not the only way to judge a pass IMO.

nanaof4

PalenQ, once again you have come to my rescue with your good advice. I guess I think like you sbout the advantage of the flexibility of a pass vs. purchasing discounted tickets way in advance to save a little money. In 2011 I did get a German rail pass, and then bought my Swiss tickets as point to point. I was pretty happy with how that worked out. At that time Rick Steves had a special on his website where I could buy I believe it was a 4 day flexi pass and get the 5th day free. As "free" is one of my favorite words I went for that option. Well, I'm a couple of years older now and that makes me even more inclined to consider the pass/passes once again. What I don't know is if I (and my friend who is traveling with me this time) should get a 1, 2, or 3 country pass and purchase the rest of the tickets point to point when we are in a particular country.

You said it would help if you knew the places I plan to visit, so here goes:

Frankfurt Flughafen - Bacharach
Bacharach - Cochem
Cochem - Freiburg
Freiburg - Interlaken
Interlaken - Lauterbrunnen/Gimmelwald
Gimmelwald - Lucerne
Lucerne - Innsbruck
Innsbruck - Salzburg
Salzburg - Hallstatt
Hallstatt - Vienna
Vienna - Nurnberg
Nurnberg - Rothenburg
Rothenburg - Frankfurt
Frankfurt - Frankfurt Flughafen

Obviously I wouldn't use a day of any pass for such short and inexpensive distances as Frankfurt to the airport or Interlaken to Lauterbrunnen. I would save my days for the longer distances.

Thanks for any help.

PalenQ

a quick look I would lresearch both the Swiss Pass and the Germany-Austira railpass to use as a tandem.

PalenQ

I would not buy a 3-country pass - the Eurail Select Pass for those 3 countries because a Eurailpass does not nearly have the same benefits in Switzerland as a Swiss Pass does. Swiss Passes will take you in full to Gimmelwald whereas Eurailpasses would only give you a tiny discount and since you may be going up and down that could add up - Eurail gives a 25% discount to Lauterbrunnen, Swiss Passes are free.

Plus per day the Swiss Pass can be much cheaper than a Eurailpass - the Germany-Austria pass is also much cheaper per day than a Eurailpass (thought the coverages are about equal in this example.

A railpass lets you hop on virtually any train in all three countries with very few exceptions.

Those are the only ones I would consider.

PalenQ

The Germany-Austria railpass costs:

5 days (out of a 2-month period, a flexipass - use the unlimited calendar day travel, which includes K-D boats on the Rhine any time over a 2-month period - 5 days p p on a Saverpass = $331 p. p.p. or about $66?day for fully flexible hop on any train anytime in either Germany or Austria or about 42 euros a day - use the pass for your long journeys and then for short trips buy locally or use the cheap Lander passes

a 6-day pass/2 mo costs $363 or $32 extra for the 6th day or about 23 euros per unlimited travel day over the 5th, the base or minimum number of days sold on that pass.

10-day pass $504 or about $50/day - passes per day get cheaper the more you use it.

For fully flexible hop on any train anytime - no advance planning a great deal IMO - and you can always IME hop on trains in either country and typically find lots of empty seats.

Mimar

SNCF, the French train company, limits the number of seat reservations for pass holders on a given train. So if you decide to hop on a popular train at the last minute, you may not be able to get a seat. Which, for fast trains, means you can't take that train.

PalenQ

Mimar - that is correct but it has no relevance to this discussion about train travel in Switzerland, Germany and Austria - you can, with very few exceptions, just hop any train anytime in those countries - giving the great flexibility that railpasses once offered on French TGVs (not on a given train - there are many non-TGV trains that do not require seat reservations and on which you can just hop on.

But for anyone pondering a railpass in France Mimar is correct - make any necessary reservations when you buy your pass as a condition of buying that pass. France is the only country I know of with a quota on railpass holder seats.