dwdvagamundo

In trying to put together our fall trip to the Netherlands, Belgium and France, we've discovered (or confirmed prior comments on this forum) that automobile rental companies charge a $500 "Drop Fee" if we pick the car up in Amsterdam and drop it in Paris. However, if we drop it in the Netherlands then train to France and pick up another car to drop in Paris, no fee will be due. Even factoring in the higher daily rental rate for the two shorter rentals and the cost of the train, we would save around $200 by taking this approach.

Two questions: We will be staying in Bruges the night before we would return the car. I did a quick search and found we could train to Lille from Rotterdam in about two hours. Anyone have a better idea of a an origin in the Netherlands or a destination in France?

Second, and most important: my spouse and I are around 70 and, while I've got no physical disabilities, she does, and she is worried about getting our luggage and ourselves aboard a train. We visited northern Italy around twenty years ago by train and at times this was a problem because the trains at times did not stop for long, the steps to the train from the platform were quite high, and no one was there to help with the luggage. This is the main reason we are renting a car rather than taking trains for this trip.

My spouse can handle train trips without luggage, and had no trouble with the Caledonian Sleeper a couple of years ago--but that one originated at Euston Station so we had plenty of time to get aboard. Any thoughts on this?

I realize we could probably avoid the "quick boarding interval"problem by returning to Amsterdam and getting a train originating there, but that would be at least another hour from Bruges (where we will be the night before). Any thoughts?

Thanks for any help;

PalenQ

Dordrecht is the closest main Dutch train station to Belgium and a much smaller station than Rotterdam and much easier to drive to - see if you can return the car there. Many Dutch trains IME are flat-floor entries these days- you may want to go to Rotterdam because direct thalys trains run from there to Paris -not from dordrecht.

Get cheap fares at www.thalys.com if you book eons in advance - it makes no sense to return to Amsterdam and that hectic main train station that would be more a hassle than Rotterdam plus car returns are a hassle there as is driving into the city centre - consider Schiphol Airport at a more convenient drop location and you can board the Thalys there as well.

but if just wanting to get to France to rent a car there then the Thalys trains only go to Paris - so from Dordrecht then it would be the best IME - take a train to Antwerp and to Bruges and onto Lille - if you want to start your French car trip from there.

You can also take trains from Brussels to Paris CDG airport to pick up a car and drive from there. Going into Paris and picking up a car would seem to be daunting.

With the added train fares and hassle consider paying the $200 and gaining a whole day and eschewing all the other trains and hassles. In fact that would seem to be the logical solution - pay the extra $200 and save time and maybe even money!

For loads of great info on these trains check www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

hetismij2

Where are you going in the Netherlands and Belgium that you need a car?

Certainly if you are only going to Brugge and other major towns cities in Belgium than you could use public transport easily enough, the same is of course true for the Netherlands.

International trains stop for a couple of minutes at stations giving you plenty of time to board with luggage. You will need to book your Thalys to Lille in plenty of time to get the best price

PalenQ

Thalys trains do not go to Lille do they? From Bruges to Lille there is I believe no reason to pre-book - flat fare on IC trains.

hetismij2

You are right of course. My mistake. All the more reason to ditch any car in the Netherlands and do Belgium by train. It seems daft to back track after Brugge.

greg

It seems the hassle is the result of bringing a car from Netherlands into Belgium. Is there a compelling commensurate reason to do this that justifies having to do a "major cleanup" afterwards?

The train logistics is here to stay and would follow you where you go. Consider that your last train experience was twenty years ago, in Italy. While rural lines in Italy is still like that, depending on trains, modern trains have gotten easier to get on/off. One way is to manage your load better. This would be tough if you have always traveled by car. But managing the luggage weight would benefit you not only with train travel, but at hotels without elevators, hotels in pedestrian only zone, etc. I don't carry luggage up and down train steps. My wife stands at the top of the entry step and I relay the luggage up/down from the platform. If you see the locals handle big luggage, this is how they do it. Even so, I keep the weight of any one item to be less than 20 lb.

dwdvagamundo

Thanks for all the help. We'd do it all by train except for my spouse's concerns about getting the luggage and ourselves on board. My experience with auto (and truck) traffic in the Netherlands was not such as I am looking forward to repeating (to paraphrase Peter Lorre), but also don't want to have a hassle at the stations. We can load our luggage onto the train once, but for several moves it's problematic.

Dordrecht sounds like a good place to drop the car and get the train. I'll check it out.

PalenQ

hetismij - are Dutch trains these days mainly flat-floor with the platform on entering or do you have to clambor up a couple of steep steps? curious as I don't really recall in particular - you will find luggage carts in all stations - free - just put a coin in and when you return to a rack by the platform where you take them you get your coin back.

Sassafrass

An different tack. Get some of those new IT luggage pieces. They are very cheap at stores like Rosses, Marshalls, etc. and weigh next to nothing. They are so super light, they feel flimsy, but seem to be holding up quite well, though DH stuffs his to the gills. We are also in our 70s with some mobility issues, but still find trains easier that driving, even though there are sometimes steps. Depends also on what you wish to see.

Dukey1

Its called the one without disability issues loads all the luggage onto the train and then both people move it down the aisle to the racks.

PalenQ

IME anyone struggling with boarding trains with luggage will be helped by helpful locals - you can count on that IME!

dwdvagamundo

Dukey1--that works if we have time to do this--each of us has a checked suitcase and a bag, and my "carryon" bag is stuffed with stuff. Some of the Italian trains did not give us much time to get on board.

Sassafrass--if we were in the market for new luggage, we'd do it, but ours, which we've had for years, is very light until filled with clothing and books.

menachem

Uhm Dordrecht is not a good station to change trains if you have mobility issues at the moment, as the elevators are out of commission a lot and there are no escalators there. There's a tunnel underneath the track so any significant change means you have stairs.

Platform 1 is where the fast trains stop, so you'd be sorted there, but if they have line changes, you might end up at another platform altogether.

Rotterdam is the better choice.

But the best choice IMO is to ditch the car, lighten your load and go by train.

Sassafrass

The books will surely do it weight wise. I love reading and guide books, but have stopped carrying many, just can't handle that much stuff anymore. I have more photos than anybody would ever be interested in, so stopped carrying a camera. Art supplies still add weight, but my biggest weight now-a-days is medicines. LOL.

A few years ago, hopping up and down steps was not even a thought. Now a few pounds on the suitcase makes a difference. Our luggage was perfectly good, but DH got the IT anyway. It is cheap enough to consider.

Best of luck with your decision. Glad you are still traveling anyway.

PalenQ

I also love carrying guidebooks but now photo copy the relatively few relevant parts of a fat guide and take them along and toss them out as I go. My local library has all the major guides - check em out copy the relevant parts and travel light - of course now I phones have changed the info gathering but I'm still in the dumb phone age.

dwdvagamundo

Menachem--

Thanks. I'll go with Rotterdam. Your suggestion of ditching the car altogether would mean multiplying the train boarding problem by several moves with luggage, as we're planning to stay in five places in the course of a three week vacation, which means four moves with luggage. I hear you about lightening up, but if we could, we'd have done it. That's a subject for another whole thread.

Sassafrass and PalenQ--it's not the travel guides, it's the books we buy at the various places we see. We don't take many photos, and those we do take would not be as good as those in a guide to, say, Versailles or Amboise Chateau, and would not have the commentary. So we come back with quite a load of those guys. We don't take guidebooks anymore--we know what we want to see before booking the trip, and when these places are open, and don't (generally) try to eat in pre-selected restaurants. Last year we took Michelin Green Guide for France, but did not find it that helpful. So this year we're just going to wing it with Tripadvisor, Googlemaps, and Yelp apps, and prepurchase tix to the "must sees" if we feel we need to--e.g. the Louvre this year or Versailles last. If there is a particularly good walking tour in a guidebook or one I've found elsewhere (e.g. the maps to Samuel Pepys' London in the back of his Diary volumes), I'll copy those and carry them, then throw them out when I've used them.

I do copy out all the booking info and throw them out page by page once we've checked into the hotel or picked up the car.

Thanks for all the help and wishes. We're looking forward to it.

PalenQ

IME it is not easy driving into Rotterdam to get to the train station - a huge town with lots of traffic but yes since the Thalys trains only serve that and not Dordrecht it makes sense. the Rotterdam station was completely rebuilt in the past several years so maybe car access is better than when I was last there.

menachem

PalenQ it is: because all building work has stopped.

dwdvagamundo: are you dropping off the car in rotterdam? which rental company are you renting from? Hertz has an office on Weena, one block from Rotterdam Centraal.

There's also an Avis office nearby, On Kruisplein.

Both these offices can be easily reached by way of Weena. That's an easy route into the city (Rotterdam has a rational city highway system, made possible by being ground central to a German bombing raid in 1940)

Oh, and there's an Europcar not too far away as well. (Walenburgerhof)

give me a shout out if you need assistance. I'm serious.

Sassafrass

Oh, I also like some of the guide books to local sights that you only find there, especially those for places like Pompeii and Rome that have all the beautiful overlays. Love looking at them and reading them for years, and fun on the coffee table for guests.

After your trip, do let us know how it went, even if you don't do a trip report.

dwdvagamundo

menachem--thanks again. We haven't gotten a car yet--haven't even booked flights; we're thinking AVIS at this time so I'll print your info out and take it along.

We do have lodging reservations which is different from our usual procedure of booking flights first. There are quite a few flights a day to/from Atlanta on Delta, so I'm optimistic we can get seats on our preferred days or a day or two before or after if necessary).

If airfares don't come down we'll not go. They're around $1400 for the fall even though fares for travel through May 15 are around $1100 and Milano is under $1000. So far, looks like the airlines are trying to soak up any savings we'd get from the stronger dollar. We just went to Europe last year and are considering it this year only because of the dollar; usually we'd wait a year and go somewhere in the Americas instead.

Sassafrass--we love the overlay books that used to be available for Rome and other classical areas--haven't seen them for a while. I'll let you know how it went when we get back (if we go)--as the song says, it's a long, long way from April to September.