Pulling Kids out of school to travel.

Someone (a teacher) once told me..."Take your subject seriously, if it is a serious subject, but take yourself with a grain of salt". The teachers who are giving you a bad time need to get a life. Take your kids and travel and enjoy each other's company and stop worrying about the school. You are their parents, you have the final say.

There was a very interesting thread this summer on much the same subject. A woman was writing about taking her step daughter out of school. It generated a lot of discussion--maybe someone remembers and can pull it up?

It's a great learning experience for kids to travel. But it's really hard to pull them out of school when they start jr. high-at least for my son it was. He missed a couple of assignments, the teachers made it his responsibility to ask for make-up assignements, he put it off, and his grads went down. This caused him to not be accepted to his choice high school.

High school is even worse. We are going in summer next year instead.

Being the Devil's advocate, I see two major points for the school's position: (1) when you take a child out of school, the school loses its state funding for each day the child is not present; and (2) teachers are extremely overburdened in most cases and to accomodate every student for optional missed days of assignments is extremely taxing.

This is your choice to have your kids miss 4 weeks of school a year and, IMVHO, it is a lot to ask for the teachers to work around your preferred vacation schedule. Just imagine if a teacher had 30 students, all of whom missed a month of school ... the work it would take to arrange make-up assignments and tests would be nightmare.

On the other hand, I wholly agree that you are giving your children life experiences that are without equal. Not that you asked for suggestions, perhaps a good idea is to meet with your children's teachers at the onset of the semester and look over each class' syllabus. Then you'll have an idea of what times are best/worst to travel.

Your daughters are very lucky to grow up with such an expanded world view.

TWICE a year? Once is more understandable as I know that many parents can not get their holidays always during school holidays.I know it is cheaper to travel in school term but don't kid yourself about it being the teachers who are penalizing your daughters.There are enough school holidays for it to be possible to avoid them missing 4 weeks of school every year.

Just a thought - why should the teachers make it easy for you to take your kids away from what, in essence, is their employment? It's more work and effort for them to give make up assignements and extra work to be done during the trip. And chances are it will never be done since most parents don't take the assignments seriously enough to make sure they get done.

It should be the student / parents responsibility to request work at least 1 month in advance of departure and to ensure that it gets handed in immediately upon return.

If you're going to let your child miss school then they have to know that that doesn't mean the get to skip the work.

I'm on the receiving end on the teachers side of this to have any simpathy for the parents or the students who get out of school to travel when there are definitely enough holidays already for that.

Let me clarify - they are NOT missing 4 weeks. On a 10 day trip, they miss 4 or 5 days. We do try to incorporate Monday holidays or Friday Teacher-in-Service days. On a 14 day trip, we still try to overlap with scheduled breaks but its not always possible so they may miss 7-9 days. For an average of 2 1/2 weeks missed. All 3 are "A" students and do not require much of any teacher's time...

They ALWAYS make up their and on many instances have been doing it while we were travleing. I request all work at a minimum of 3-4 weeks ahead but they can't do it or make it up if the teachers refuse to give them the assignements ahead of time or "won't accept it" upon their return.

I personally feel that they don't like to give up control.

The school year is mandated to be 180 days long. If you take your children out of school for 10-14 days at a time, twice per year while school is in session, and accounting for weekends, each of your children misses 16-20 days per year, or approximately 12% of the class year. When you take into account that a child may be absent up to an additional 5 days for illnesses and appointments, that percentage rises slightly higher.

Because of budget cuts, teachers have more students in their classrooms, and are correcting more homework. There is less individualized attention. Because you wish to take your children out of school, you are making a teacher's job even more burdensome. Why should a teacher be required to provide lesson plans in advance and alternate types of homework to cover missed classes?

I don't see anything wrong with the school system penalizing your children for vacations that are interrupting the school year. It is your decision to pull your children out of class.

However, if you don't like the school system's rules, you are more than welcome to home school them or enroll them in private school where there may be some flexibility.

If your children were furthering their academics at a college, I really wonder if you would continue to pull your children out of class for extended family vacations because you don't like to travel "when everyone else is traveling also". Possibly you wouldn't do this because you would be paying the tuition directly instead of as part of your taxes.

of course it is possible for them not to miss school- you just choose not to go during holidays. I also note that the two of you are self employed so don't have the argument that some have of their employers deciding when their holidays are. If everybody had your attitude how on earth is a teacher meant to cope? I am not against holidays taken in term time once every so often but twice a year? Teaching is not only about giving out assignments. Give your children an education by letting them travel AND by keeping them in school-you may be saving money but its at a cost your children are paying.

It doesn't really matter what others think about this subject, you are the parent. So perhaps your question is more rhetorical. As a parent, I have found that we often have to justify to others (or even to ourselves!) some of our actions. Just do what feels like the right thing to you (and your kids)...it's not like the 'wrong' thing would be that detrimental anyway in this case. You say your kids are exceptional students so now you just have to deal with the teachers' attitude towards missing school days. It is difficult to accomodate a child who has missed school and the schools purposely don't give out assignments before you go on vacation because they want to deter this from happenning. In affluent communities you see this more because parents have more disposable income and tend to travel more. When there are two working parents that both need to take time off of work at a 'convenient' time and make sure that the time coincides with the childrens' convenient time, planning can be impossible. We do what we have to do and if the teachers get upset, so be it. We shouldn't forget the ultimate goal of education, and that is to prepare children to be stable adults able to make smart decisions, feel comfortable in their skin and have knowledge of the world. We all contribute in a way to this goal, whether it be in the classroom or traveling to Costa Rica to see the rainforest. When my kids were younger, I would pull them out of school because I always used miles (that I earned through business travel) to book our flights and hotels stays and this was impossible during Spring Break, Thanksgiving and Christmas so I told the teachers that I couldn't afford to go on vacation during those times, therefore I was taking them out of school. Mine were good students too so this was not a problem. As they get older, I find that the work that has to be done to make up the missed school time is so horrendous that I have stopped doing this and just save the money to pay the premium to go on vacation during the 'busy' times. Our school refuses to give us the work upfront. Anyway, do what you (and your kids) feel is right.

In response to Leslie- I actually did miss 3 weeks of college my sophmore year to accompany my family to the mid east. Still graduated cum laude 2 years later. So, YES, I would take my kids with me even then!

Sounds like you aren't really interested in what peoples' views are. You are just trying to justify WHY you are doing it! Its cheaper.

I think of my kids' school as a community to which we and they belong. Like any community, it can only function well if everyone does their best to work together. When one or two or several members of the community choose to disregard the rules or norms, they are essentially saying they are better than the rest, or deserving of special treatment. A handicapped member of the community might be entitled to such treatment, but not, IMO, just those folks who choose to flout the rules.
I think it's hard enough for teachers these days to deal with basic issues of safety and discipline and order in the classroom, not to mention that I think the hard work that teachers do just teaching is underrated in this country -to ask them to make special concessions to people who have decided their children don't need to be in school at certain times is not fair. What if a third or half of parents did that? How could the school achieve its goals?

Just to be clear, I'm not arguing that travel isn't valuable for young and old alike. Or even that an occasional missed day for travel isn't acceptable.

I also don't think traveling when everyone else is traveling is so awful, since (1) presumably you're referring to European travel, and European school schedules don't always coincide with U.S. ones at all, and (2) I've never noticed (and I've traveled for years and years with my school-aged kids in Europe) we had any particular frustrations being in tourist locations during my kids' school break times or summer.

I took my kids out of school in the elementary years--but once you hit middle school, and especially high school, I can't imagine missing. There's just too much to make up. Besides, aren't your kids in sports, music or other activities? Those, for the most part, correspond with the school year. My son couldn't go on a trip this fall break because of football--there are only 10 games so if he misses one that is 10% plus if he missed practice that week, he would not be allowed to play the next.
We love to travel, but now it takes place during school breaks. When the kids are gone, I look forward to wonderful trips with cheap tickets!

I dont likt to travel to Europe in the summer either, but is a sacrifice that I do for my grandchildren, because I understand how important is to have a good education and how hard it will be for them to catching up with the school assignements.
Every time I go back to Europe I always take one with me.. I have 3 grandkids, but one is only 20 months old, anyway I told the little one that when she is at least 6 or 7 years old, she can also accompany grandmama abroad.

Normally I would be sympathetic to someone doing this a couple of times TOTAL during a child's school years. But you seem to be doing it twice a year on a regular basis. That is pretty selfish, IMHO, as you are asking everyone, including underpaid, overworked teachers, to accommodate you simply for the reason that you don't like to travel with the masses. It makes me wonder about the values you are teaching your "exceptional" kids--specifically, a "me-first, MY time is so much more valuable than YOURS" attitude.
Based on the tone of your posts, I get the feeling you give the schools a lot more grief than they give you.
The school has NO obligation to help you out twice a year, virtually every year, just so you can enjoy your holidays at a more convenient (for YOU) time. Teachers have to make do with taking their holidays during the peak summer period; don't expect a lot of sympathy for your demands.

We have taken our kids to Europe on vacations the past three years and are planning another trip this coming year. The kids are now 16 and 13 and are both fantastic students. They love history, the arts and travel. That being said - the most school that they have ever missed for a trip is 2 days! Sometimes we start the trip a day or two before the school vacation. I think that it sends a wrong message about the value of school and education to simply pull the kids out of school for a trip. What would a classroom look like if everyone just took off when they felt like it? Often my kids have projects with other kids - how would that work out? You would end up penalizing other kids just for your vacation. I agree that travel during Christmas and Easter can be expensive; so we have done all of our traveling during their winter vacation in February! It may be chilly, but we are not pulling the kids from school, fares and hotels are cheap and sites are not crowded! This year it does not look like we can travel in February, so we will just have to pay more and go in the summer - it is not an option for us to pull the kids out of school.

Me detects a bit of envy, hmmmm??
You all seem to be giving maryintwin quite the hard time...

My children are grown and my wife and i traveled quite a bit with them when they were younger and many times had to remove them from school for longer than average time periods, and they all turned out to be well educated, productive, contributing adults.

I fail to see how one child missing even 6 days makes things more difficult for the teachers.

It is inevitable and every year the flu virus or strep throat or chicken pox, or whatever hits the schools and you may have HALF the children out for a week or more and they are all leaving and returning at different times and all needing to make up work, etc, etc. Those children are definitely NOT all "A" students and therefore will require more of the teacher's time and help to catch up and yet some of you argue that one good student missing class is going to cause a major upheaval....

On the contrary, if the teachers are so overwhelmed, overworked and underpaid I think they should be glad to have one less student in their class!

Certainly not envy on my part.I have been on holiday in Easter,summer and in our school october holiday. I note this is your first post Fancyfree - are you related to Maryintwin by any chance? Not her twin are you- I only ask as you write in a remarkably similar way!!

Well, look on the bright side. Your school's insistence on fixed hours of operation that make no sense to you will be an excellent preparation for that most wonderful and exasperating of countries, Italy.

Remember the unofficial motto of this board: We don't travel to learn about life, we live to learn about travel.

Bon voyage.

Maryintwin,

While I think your post is really a rhetorical question, and you're not interested in others' opinions, here's mine anyway. I wholeheartedly agree with Susan56 and StCirq. I strongly believe in the education factor associated with travel, but not at the expense of their school education. My children are also A students, but the most time I have ever pulled them out of school for a trip was 1 day, and that was when they were in elementary school.

While it would certainly be cheaper to travel in the off season, I think it sends a wrong message that school is less important if I would take my children out of school for travel. We still have the option to travel during their holidays, which they have quite a few!

The entire learning process at school is not simply book work and made-up assignments; it's an interaction between students and teachers, which cannot be duplicated by doing work outside of school. As to the poster that said that a child misses school due to the flu and other illnessess, that is right. Think how much school a child would miss if they left school to travel AND they got sick, which is not an unlikely possibility. My kids have learned to take school so seriously, they now refuse to miss school for travel.

I feel as if my kids have the best of both worlds -- an important understanding of the value of school AND the love and experience of travel (during holidays). Just my 2 cents.

Susan

I have been an observer on this message board for several weeks while planning a trip to Italy but I had to speak out because of how one sided most of the posts have been. I just wonder if maryintwin were to home school her child, would the majority of the posters be adverse to the family interrupting that "school schedule" to travel where ever, whenever??

I think children can learn to both, respect the instituion of traditional education but also challenge the conformist way of thinking - just because someone says "you have to" and "that's the way it has always been done" doesn't mean that it works for all.

If maryintiwn's actions are hurting no one, and her children continue to perform well, why should anyone disagree?

Hi
In my humble opinion...
Life is for learning and school can wait.
If my kids could learn in 2 weeks what the teachers say they will miss, then school would only last about 6 months.
Enjoy your holidays and enjoy the family time it gives, no one can replace that special time, school can wait.

Muck

You are absolutely right; it is her personal choice how she raises her children. I responded not to give her a hard time, but to answer her post, which asked whether there is any better education than what is gained from travel. My answer is that travel is important, which is why I travel with my children, but as a supplement to school, not at the expense of their school education.

We are not criticizing, only answering her post. If she is not interested in other people's opinions, then don't ask. But the bottom line is that each family has priorities, and each family needs to choose what is right for them.

Susan

I am sorry - what is the question here? Your girls are A students, they make up their work, and again they are A students - so what's the issue? If they were C and D students and you're pulling them out of school maybe there would be a problem..but it seems to be working for you so enjoy it.

The ISSUE is that the schools make it so hard on them. They make it so difficult by penalizing them.

Traveling is educational in some respect, regardless of what age you are.

As long as you aren't asking for things the teacher to do things differently for your kids, then it shouldn't be a major deal. On the other hand if you're asking the teacher to go back and grade their makeup work after he/she has already finished that workload or if you're asking them to hurry up and generate assignments ahead of schedule for the exclusive benefit of those who want to travel now, then that's asking a bit much, I think.

Not sure resisting requests to increase a teacher's workload so that people can vacation when they want is realistic for an overburdened public school system, but you might have more cause for a hearing if you're paying for private education. But if you know you're not going to get preferential treatment and choose to travel for your own convenience, then I do think that should be your choice.

Further to Clifton's post, in all the private schools I know, including the one my kids attend, taking time off from school days for vacation is prohibited for the very reasons outlined by various people on this thread already. So, paying tuition doesn't get you more "privileges" with respect to making your own decisions about when you can take your kids out of school - in fact, quite the opposite. It ensures that there is a mechanism for penalizing you if you do.

It's a rare privelege for anyone to be able to experience the world's vastness and the cultures herein. I consider travel an integral and invaluable part of one's personal education and believe that those parents who are fortunate enough to be able to afford to share with their children the wonders of the world should be allowed to do so no matter what the timeframe. School is no more or less an important aspect of life than something as rewarding as travel, and educators should be supportive of parents attempting to provide their kids with something extra in the way of exposure to the rest of the world. Why should a child be penalized for this? Why should a school be penalized monetarily if the child is still handing in the work assigned? How do you figure the teacher spends more time handling this situation? As far as I can see, the teacher's work for that child is just postponed. If the parents give the school adequate notice to provide the upcoming assignments and the child hands in the work upon returning to the classroom, then maryintwin should have the right to schedule her family's vacations as it suits her.

Good grief. It is not a penalty. It is an SIW.

OK, this is my last post on this topic, but I can't resist.

School is not, if it's a good school, just a matter of doing assignments and handing them in. My 8th grader and 11th grader have long-term project commitments that involve working with other students over time on things like: building a submarine in groups, preparing a joint French oral presentation, choral society where they are working toward a statewide competition, creating pieces of a quilt that they will eventually weave together, study groups for the SATs, varsity and junior varsity teams that require 100% participation whether you are playing in the game or not. That's just the in-school stuff. Outside school they have other things they take part in that require weekly or more commitments. I fail to understand how anyone cannot see how taking a kid out of school twice a year for even 2-4 days, never mind for the longer periods the original poster stated, affects these things. Kids don't learn in a vacuum. In any good school they are involved in projects that involve a LOT more than just doing work and turning in an assignment. Other students are affected. Other team members are affected. People giving them music or art or sports or other instruction are affected.

What do you mean "the teacher's work for that subject is just postponed?" That's only the tip of the iceberg! What about all the other students/team members/extracurricular activities personnal who have to accommodate selfish parents' requests?

As someone else mentioned, for elementary kids this might work, if the school allowed it - and even then I would never expect any kind of special accommodation. But for middle schoolers and high schoolers, kids who are active, good students are involved in far too many activities for parents to consider disrupting the school year, or their extracurricular activities, to take them on vacation to Europe, when it's just not THAT bad traveling with the masses on normal time off. And since no one has addressed the issue, I'll mention it again - European school hoidays don't mesh with our own for the most part, so the whole traveling with the masses issue is bogus to begin with.

SIW = Self Inlflicted Wound

Private schools do not have any more flexibility than public schools. My son has attended private schools always. Currently he is in a private high school that is very small and the policy is that the principal must approve of the absence first. If it's approved the child has to have all of his teachers sign off and make arrangements for make-up assignments and tests.

This has been a very interesting post to read. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I do, however, believe that travel is a truly educational experience and that whenever one gets the chance to go somewhere they should take full advantage of it. We do tend to travel in low season. The places that we have wanted to go are affordable then. We do always try and coordinate the best we can with school holidays, days off, etc. I must say, that when I travel half way around the world I am going to stay longer than my childs week vacation. I don't consider this being selfish on my part. Life is for living! You never know what tomorrow holds.

Travel properly done is an educational experience. So is school. The education you get through travel is not better than that in school--it's just different. To me it seems rather short sighted to take kids out of school to travel in the off season just because their parents don't like crowds.

>> am tired of the schools making it so difficult for us to travel by penalizing my children by refusing to let them make up the work or not even telling them which assignments/tests they will miss.<<

Though I definitely agree that traveling is a great educational experience, it seems a little self-centered to me to expect teachers to cater to a few kids because the parents aren't willing to deal with the sacrifice that come with being a parent.

What if all the kids in the class decided to make their own schedules and expect the teachers to simply give them the assignments in advance, what kind of mess would it cause. Unfortunately, there are always people who think that they are special and must be treated differently, and the most unfortunate thing is that the selfish traits are being passed on to their children.

As a teacher, even though I am not obligated to, I have prepared work for a number of students that were going on vacation (both short term and long term). The amount of time and effort it takes to prepare work for one student is significant. In the majority of cases the work has not come back completed. When they return I have to reteach the material which affects everyone. Please remember, your child isn't the only one that is missing school.

In addition, you won't believe the number of people that pull their children from school for 3, 4, or 5 months to travel to their homeland. While in the "old" country they rarely attend school or do any of the work suggested. When the children return to school they are at a significant disadvantage and because of district policy they are not retained. Off they go to the next grade with huge gaps in their learning. What a disservice to the kids.

As a parent I have infrequently taken my children out for a couple of days with the understanding that my kids are responsible for making up the missed work (I work part time so I'm not missing my work). Travelling is a great experience and sometimes days must be missed. If kids are pulled out on a regular basis, I believe it sends them the message that school isn't that important. In our work lives we can't miss as much work as we would like to travel. Teaching responsiblity and commitment is part of parenting.

When our children were younger, we would take them out for a few days but usually around the scheduled holidays. Now that they are in high school, we don't take them out unless its a famiy emergency like a death in the family. Even when that occured, our older son was penalized for not being present during discussions and received zero's on participation - the administration upheld the teacher citing "academic freedom" to grade as she chose. needles to say, our younger son doesn't attend that school now. With the honors and AP curriculum and fast pace, its very hard for even exceptional kids to miss - you can't duplicate the class comments, teacher emphasis or lab environments that are missed. I think missing 20-28 days a year is pretty high for any child and that's assuming there are no sick days. If there is absolutely no way you can schedule travel without taking the kids out, then I'd cut back to one trip a year - otherwise, adjust your expectations - convenience is not the main reason to travel.

I'm with you, maryintwin. My daughter was an excellent student and when we had the chance to travel to interesting places with my husband's job (which was a couple of times a year) I also took her out of school. The teachers never gave me a hard time because they all believed the education she would be getting in her travels were invaluable. They never complained about preparing work packets and gave her enough time to turn it back in. Yes, a couple of times I had to fax things back, but I didn't mind. I guess we were fortunate to have teachers that understood the importance of an exceptional education.

Unfortunately, "exceptional education" is taking a back seat to standardized testing which, in part, is supposed to hold teachers accountable. Also, more and more businesses expect schools to graduate students who are "business-ready" and who have learned at school the skills they will need to be successful in the business world. None of this is "education" to my way of thinking, but it is the reality in schools today.

As many other posters have noted, the age and grade level of children is critical when making this type of decision. So, maryintwin, how old are your daughters and what grades are they in?

I agree with travelingteacher.
If your children are good students, that's nice, but you are asking the teacher to spend time on your children that could be better spend on those that really need the teacher's time. I live in Belgium, and the schools here very strongly discourage you from taking children out of class. In The Netherlands parents even receive hefty fines for doing so. Funnily enough, my daughter was just telling me about a girl whose parents took her out of school a week before summer holidays, because the mother had had a breakdown and needed a holiday. The girl was crying because she didn't want to miss the last week of the school year. The teacher said the mother has a nervous breakdown every year before the holidays. Sometimes its not the children's but the parents interests that are served by taking them out of school.

As a teacher, might I suggest to maryintwin that they get a copy of the school district's student handbook, which should contain within the polices for absences, make-up work, the time allowed for make-up work to be turned in, etc...
For example in an excused absence situation, the student has the responsibility for asking for the make-up work. The work is required to be turned in on the following schedule: one day missed, one day to turn it in; two days missed, two days to turn in in; etc....
For an unexcused absence, a 0 will be marked for any work missed.
I assume the parents would talk to the school administration prior to the absences, it is mandatory for students to attend school. It would be up to the school district to decide if these vacations were excused or unexcused absences.

While I concede that it is annoying that the world doesn't always make life easy for any of us, I don't think you can hold the school accountable for the laws of supply and demand in the travel industry.

True, to some extent school boards have tried to circumvent the problem of everyone being off at the same time by arranging for staggered holiday periods. Under this system, this given geographic region's schools are off during week X, that region's schools take their spring break during week Y, and so on.

However, were it possible for schools to arrange it so that no more than, say 20 per cent of the nation's students were on holiday at ANY given time, such that NO week was ever a 'peak' travel week, this would also mean that no week was ever an 'off-peak' week. Consequently, the cost savings that you enjoy now would be largely eliminated.

In point of fact, far from penalizing you, the school by providing incentives to keep your travel competitors in school while you go on vacation is acting, howosever unintentionally, in your financial best interest, and thereby facilitating as much as discouraging your travel.

Took my son to England and he had to miss 4 school days. His teacher told him to write an essay on England. Travel can be the best education there is !

Dear maryintwin:

Here's my 2 cents: we leave for Europe the last day of the fall semester for the entire length of the Christmas holiday vacation. So they miss one day of the semester. By the last day all the semester work has been completed and we get a jump on leaving town.

The holidays in Europe are far less corporate than in the U.S. with people more involved with each other than materialism. In addition the crowds at the major attractions don't compare with the summer and prices can be softer.

Sure it would be great to spend even less money and have less crowds but
logistics would not allow my two children to be absent more than a few days from school.

If your children are involved in dance, gymnastics, sports, spelling bee, drama, etc. how do you justify the dollars you have spent to enroll in these activities?

How do your children complete history day or science day projects? How do they feel about not being with their friends for sporting events and school field trips?

I'm not trying to be judgemental you have awakened my curiosity. As we both have children in school I'm trying to present problems that I would have in removing the children from class.

Great post!

==Mike

I will clarify and elaborate on many of the posts. I appreciate everyone's input and obviously many people feel very strongly about this. I was looking to see if many others received a lot of resistance from their schools, and if so, how they handled it.

Point 1: My children, who by the way are in 5th, 6th, and 8th grade, are not missing 20 -28 days of school per year as one poster suggested. Please see my previous post below:

****Let me clarify - they are NOT missing 4 weeks. On a 10 day trip, they miss 4 or 5 days. We do try to incorporate Monday holidays or Friday Teacher-in-Service days. On a 14 day trip, we still try to overlap with scheduled breaks but its not always possible so they may miss 7-9 days. For an average of 2 1/2 weeks missed. All 3 are "A" students and do not require much of any teacher's time...***

All I am asking is for the teachers to provide their assignments in advance - and since all but 1 or 2 of them have been teaching for many years, they already have their lesson plans drawn up and follow the same ciricculum each year. And since I insist that all my daughters work be completed UPON RETURN not even 2 days later, I would like the teachers to accept their work and use it to determine their grades.

As far as outside activities - all 3 girls are involved in individual pursuits ie; horse competitions, singles tennis, language & music instruction so no teams are being adversely effected by their absence.

As one poster (FancyFree) noted - would the situation be any different if each of my children were to miss 6-8 days of school because of an illness??? And fortunately, none of my daughters has ever been absent more than 3 days for an entire school year beacuse of illness.

Our school breaks do not appear to be as long as many other's on this board. If they were, that would make a huge difference. Our school system tends to lean towards "mini breaks" with a Friday & Monday off on either side of a weekend. The only break we have that is extended runs from Dec 23 - Jan 2.

If my children's grades were to begin to suffer or they began to complain about missing school, then I would definitely reevaluate the whole travel issue. But as of now, they are all still straight A students and all in advanced classes. I believe that alot of their ability to excel has been made possible throught travel and learning how to manage their time and seeing the world as a "whole" not just being wrapped up in the tiny microcosim that is their school.

We have had the good fortune on many occassions to work with educators/teachers who are fully supportive and totally enthusiatic about the invaluable experience of travel for students. But there are always those who for what ever reason, seem to need to make things WAY MORE difficult than need be. Both for themselves and the student.

Almost without exception - all the parents have I spoken with in our community, be they PTA members, parents of my daughters friends, associates my husband & I work with, neighbors, etc. agree that we are fortunate to provide our children with such a broad and multifaceted education. NONE has ever expressed (at least not to me) the feelings that we are disrupting their own child's classroom, disregarding our parental responsibilities, or creating disruption in the "Educational Community". In fact, probably 60% pull their children from classes at least once each year.

I will restate: MY frustration is with the few teachers who seem to have a major chip on their shoulder and penalizing my children for missing classroom days - -NOT THE WORK- just the time in the classroom. I guess it will be the price, although now in retrospect, small price, we will pay to enlighten our children.

OK, now I'll play devil's advocate.

Suppose the two weeks your child is out of school is the two weeks that the math teacher has planned for square roots -- principles and learning? Are you going to be teaching your child all that during the two weeks vacation? When he returns, and is two full weeks behind all the other kids who are now working on advanced problems and exercises in that field, when is your child catching up? Will your child be able to continue with the other kids in class when he hasn't been taught the basics in the same way?

Or suppose it is the introduction to the use of gender in French class? You may think your child is getting some language training on vacation, but when and how is the child actually going to be able to catch up with the class on those two weeks of work? Will the teacher taking all that time to bring your child up to speed be losing time that should be advancing the rest of the class beyond that point?

If school was nothing but each child sitting at his own desk, doing his own work, with little relating to an entire class learning something together, there would be no problem in his doing his assingmnents while on vacation. But it is usually NOT the way it is done in classrooms.

Sure your child gains an education in other ways while traveling, but it is not in the same things the school and the teacher are struggling (and I do mean that literally) to teach all the students at the same time.

And let's face it, now. Most schools have many opportunities for vacations. Aren't you being selfish in your reasons why you don't want to go along with their schedule? I'd understand if the school only allowed two weeks vacation in the whole year, and your employer only allowed two weeks and they weren't at the same time. But it doesn't seem to be that at all, now does it?

This is an interesting thread. Speaking from both a teacher's and a parent's perspective, I see both sides. I have in the past provided work for students who missed (elementary) school due to traveling, and I never gave any parent a difficult time. Maryintwin, I think you do have to understand that it is very difficult to provide work in advance even when the curriculum is well planned out. As a teacher, you never know when a class will have difficulty with a concept, and more time is spent reteaching than was expected, or things move more quickly than expected and the class is ahead of schedule. Either way, your child is off track. The school is not obligated to provide you with work because technically these absences are unexcused, and I think you will find this the case more and more as your children get into high school.

I also have a 6th grader and an 8th grader, and they are straight A students. I am no longer teaching, so we have the ability to travel at any time. Our boys have made it clear to us that they do not like to miss school, however. They are well traveled, and I feel fortunate and blessed that we can take them to many interesting places, but we limit our travel to school vacations.

Patrick, there are many students the ages of maryintwin who are home schooled all the time. Maryintwin seems like an intelligent person. I don't see that there would be a problem with her helping her children in introducing things like square root, etc. On our trips my daughter and my husband would sit down and do math and science and I would do English, history and language. It's really not a big deal. She was always an honor student.

To all you people/parents who are SO concerned about rocking the boat, challenging the system, thinking outside the box, daring to be different, charting your own course...

...your kids will be WORKING FOR maryintwin's kids one day.

My kids go to different schools with different vacations. We only take one major family trip a year (never more than a 10 day trip). We are at a point where at least one of them will miss 2 or 3 days of school. I have to be honest, my kids don't even want to miss school. I don't have a problem with them missing a few days here and there, and would certainly plan ahead with their teachers to keep them up to date, but my own kids are the ones who are most unhappy when this happens. This spring my daughter will miss 2 days, that's the best we could do. She's in the smaller school with the smaller class sizes. It's much easier to deal with her teachers than in my son's case it's another story.

"To all you people/parents who are SO concerned about rocking the boat, challenging the system, thinking outside the box, daring to be different, charting your own course..."

how is mary's pursuit of personal interest outside-the-box thinking? face it, given the options available, mary is not so concerned about the quality of her kids' education as she is about the quality of her vacation.

Maryintwin: Fifteen or twenty years from now ask your daughters their opinion on how you handeled this situation. I am willing to bet their reply will bring a smile to your face.

Mary's raising 3 girls and probably feeding a husband, too? Mary DESERVES a quality vacation, badly!!!! If the daughters don't mind, GO, GO, GO!

Bravo!!! go for it.
I am pulling my teenagers as well for a Southern caribbean cruise Jan. 2004 -missing a total of 4 days in school but I know they will treasure these moments where they'll celebrate 16th&18th birthdays and my special 43rd!! so triple celebration for 2004 aboard the Constellation.
Stealing from the famous.....
"Learn as if you are going to live forever and LIVE as if you are going to die tomorrow".
so ENJOY LIFE!!

To uuhhhh: So you're saying that someone who takes their children who are exceptional students to Europe is not interested in the quality of their education? Hmmmmm that sounds strange, doesn't it. I would say that someone that has students that are not excellent and doesn't take them to Europe doesn't care about the quality of education they get. Also, in that statement you're saying that home schooled children aren't getting a quality education.

enjoylife
nobody would probably have any concerns in your case- we are not talking just 4 days in a year. In Marys case

"We pull our kids out of school usually 2x a year for 10-14 day trips."


Also nobody is disagreeing that trips to Europe are not educational. In Marys case she and her husband are both self employed and can therefore choose their holiday times and she chooses to take her kids out of school to save money.To do this every year is just plain selfish.
If a new thread was started asking if trips abroad were educational there would not be this amount of difference in views.

not saying that at all, Ann....... what i am saying is that mary has the flexibility to do otherwise, but chooses to take her kids out of school. she's sacrificing those days in school for a shorter line at the Louvre or a guarantee of a chaise lounge at the beach.

Mary1, I disagree with your following statement: "In Mary's case she and her husband are both self employed and can therefore choose their holiday times and she chooses to take her kids out of school to save money."

This may be true is some cases, but I feel self employed people are also subject to the schedules of their employees and their clients and customers. If you happen to have a seasonal business it would also dictate when you could take your vacation time. I have found that sometimes people who are not self employed think that self employed people have the freedom to to do with their time as they wish. While self employment may allow you more options on how to spend your time, it also comes with more responsibilities. One of the responsibilities that I feel most self employed people have is that they are not allowed the luxury of a 40 hour week.

uuhhhh: A shorter line at the Louvre means twice as many museums and sites they can see. Which means more education.

I don't think Mary really wanted contrary opinions, just some people to support her in her idea that she is right. I value education very highly and think there is no reason for such self-centered behavior. I also think it teaches the children bad values. I admit there are very bright children who are probably not going to suffer from missing so much school every year in comparison to avg. students.

However, it is just unreasonable to expect the schools and teachers to cater to one person who is doing this solely out of personal selfishness and personal convenience. I wouldn't think it so bad if this happened for one special trip in 4-5 years or a very special family event that could not be changed. But just to take a personal vacation twice a year?? All of the excuses about how vacation travel is educational is a bunch of hooey. that doesn't excuse it or justify doing it--and that isn't the reason mary is doing it anyway.

Mary simply wants to go when crowds are lower. Money isn't the issue, people are jumping on that but I know in other posts these trips involve stays in expensive lodging and let's be serious, no one who takes that much vacation every year, including trips to Europe, is exactly a welfare recipient or someone who is in any financial bind.

I think this teaches the children that they don't have to cooperate in society or compromise and they whatever they want, they should get regardless of what trouble it causes for others. Of course it causes work for the teachers to prepare special plans and then handle the assignments on return out of normal schedule. This is poor preparation for the real world. I know when I was in graduate school, there were very few allowed excuses for missing classes and exact dates assignments were due. If you missed them, you got zeroes and since there are fewer tests and homework in grad school, you could easily go down a grade or two in the class and even get put on probation if you did that a lot. If I had asked my profs for several weeks off, and to turn in assignments late or miss tests because I wanted to take a vacation when crowds were less, they would have thought I was not a serious student(and they certainly wouldn't have allowed that).

We all have obligations in our roles in society, wether work or school. Children should be taught that, not to be spoiled exceptions to everyone else. That is not going to serve them well in this world.

I travel a lot in the summer to Europe because I enjoy it and my vacations aren't ruined--and I have a choice. There is no necessity for this, that's the point. Mary never said this was a monetary issue, I think some assumed that (other posts have made it clear money is not tight), she just said she wants to avoid crowds. In any case, nothing costs more in summer that I've noticed except air fare.

Mary1 - please see several of my posts correcting the idea that my daughters are missing 20 - 28 days of school. A 10 day trip, when planned around a Monday or Friday when there are no classes scheduled results in 4 missed days. So to say that my girls are missing almost a month of school is QUITE the exageration.

Ann, now you're arguing that more museums (or margaritas) is a BETTER education than one in the classroom.... maybe, but that's different from your original, and certainly not one that mary is making.

"We HATE to travel during designated school breaks because that is when everyone else is traveling also." that sounds to me as if mary just doesn't want to be bothered with too many other people around.

"I think this teaches the children that they don't have to cooperate in society or compromise and they whatever they want, they should get regardless of what trouble it causes for others." As long as Mary's girls can write a better sentence than this, they'll be OK. Parents deserve to be selfish at least twice a year. I failed Junior Year of high school and today I have a P.H.D. Spare us the lectures on how you think someone else's kids will handle any situation.

Is a P.H.D. the same thing as a PhD?

They are your children, you have a right to do whatever you want. You are paying for the school either privately or with taxes, so again, you have a right to do what you want. Teachers know this comes with the territory, whether it be a suspended child, a sick child, etc. HAVE A GREAT TIME!

"Is a P.H.D. the same thing as a PhD?"

I think (and I know, who cares!) you're teaching your kids that the regular rules don't apply to them. Travel IS great for kids. Do it during vacations.

Obxgirl, the technical answer to your question:

P=pin
H=head
D=diploma

It's tactfully referred to as a P.H.D. in polite company, especially in the company of those who have a Ph.D.

LOL, Barzelletta! My husband has a PhD and whenever he does something really dopey, I ask "Are you a P-H-D or a big D-I-P?"

Grasshopper, how are Master Po and Master Khan doing these days?

maryintwin has said repeatedly that her children do not miss 20 to 28 days of school per year. Possibly, had maryintwin from the onset given us clearer facts, she just might have had more people agreeing with her. It took two days for maryintwin to provide us with additional pertinent details and inform us that her daughters are elementary/middle school aged. Many of the responses on this thread (prior to receiving that information) were geared to students in high school.

My opinion is that if maryintwin had initially provided us with the important facts at the beginning, the opinions may have been slightly more lenient. However, since maryintwin does not write clearly, I think that she should think twice about pulling her daughters out of school. In fact, I think it would be beneficial for maryintwin to enroll in a reading and writing class. Perhaps, she will learn to write more succinctly so that we can understand her in the future.

Hi Steve, Wrong Grasshopper..... My GH comes from Aesop.

Did Fodors somehow move some posts to the wrong thread? The above posts seem to be from a puzzle thread, and there are names of posters without text posted.

Never mind. Just a second ago there were totally different posts at the ren, really. They seemed to be from a puzzle thread, but some had two posters' anmes and only one message. Maybe it is fixed now.

Also, just a few seconds ago, that message above from Leslie was shown under the name of Annettex as the poster. Now it is Leslie.

Maryintwin, I agree that we need to perceive the world as a whole and not just our own tiny microcosm. However, your words and your goals seem to be at odds with each other. It is the larger world that recognizes school policies - as I pointed out in my last post, the periods outside Christmas and the annual summer break are often less crowded (at least with North American students/teachers and their families) not DESPITE the existence of North American-wide school holiday policies, but BECAUSE of these policies.

Consequently, the off-season benefits you seek are contingent, not on your behaving as a member of the overall school 'world' but as one who is happy to have such policies in force, providing they do not apply to you or to the (sixty per cent) of other parents at your own self-same tiny microcosm of a school.

Maryintwin, hell hath no fury like people who feel, rightly or wrongly, that they have been made chumps for having complied with a policy that has been inconsistently enforced. It is possible that this is what concerns your school, and unless you can find a way to alleviate their concerns about this, they will view your own disappointment and frustration as by far the lesser of two evils.

Somewhere back a number of posts was a comment that teachers who have taught a long time "...already have their plans made in advance anyway...." What sort of statement is that? As a teacher of 33 years, I do not have my plans made any further than a week out! I teach at the elementary level. A teacher who cares about the education of his/her students does NOT plan too far ahead because some children need more time to learn what is being taught. Some years children need 3 weeks on a unit and other years they need 4 weeks! And, if the educators are really serious about what they teach, they will be updating their own teaching styles/subjects through inservicing... which tends to make changes in one's teaching from year to year.
I have prepared lessons for students who needed to travel or be away from the classroom for various reasons. I always tell the parents that at the elementary level, a lot of learning comes from the interaction of the students in the classroom and NOT from the textbook lessons I might have them do during their absence.
Life is about learning, certainly. And travel is very eye-opening, I agree. But, part of going to school is learning the responsibility of getting up in the morning, having a "job" to do and being responsible for its completion. What message are we sending students by pulling them out of school for travel? School is not important? Their "job" isn't important?
I just had to add my 2 cents.

Leslie- I believe it was back on 10/22 that I clarified the number of days actually missed.

marytwin,

yes, I will back you up that you said how many days your kids missed early on.

However, I still think that it is showing your kids that rules only apply when they are convenient. Of course, they are your kids and it is your decision, but once you put it out on bulletin board, you know you'll get many reactions.

yes ,only after it was clear that the posts were against the amount of time off did the amount of days suddenly change. She was clear on the first post.

We just returned from Italy and had taken our 5th grade son out of school for two weeks for this trip. His teacher was cooperative and worked with him on what he should make up, etc. It was the trip of a lifetime and we don't regret pulling him out of school. A couple of points. 1. I think our teacher was cooperative because this was a one-time thing and not a common occurance. 2. Our son (a good student also) struggled to catch up with his class in several subjects. I would never do this to him past 5th grade. 3. There's a big difference between pulling a kid out for Europe vs. Disney World. Just food for thought....

"There's a big difference between pulling a kid out for Europe vs. Disney World."

yes, and the difference is Disney would be in the child's interest, and Europe is in the parent's interest.

Who could possibly interpret "2X a year for 10-14 day trips" as twice yearly for 4 days each????

I think the main point many people still miss is that if one child misses a couple of weeks of school, it is the other 20 to 30 children who suffer also, when the teacher must bring the one child back up to speed in the classroom while they must sit and listen to it all again while that child "catches up". Doing homework or being taught by parents is not necessarily the same as what the child would be doing in the classroom.

Okay, I can't resist to jump back into this discussion once more. I'm surprised at the reaction of those that you only live once, so go for it.... I would definately agree if this was the case of missing some school to take advantge of an opportunity to tag along on a father's business trip. In contrast, however, this is the case of purely selfish motives on the part of the parents to choose to schedule their family vacations during the school year on a regular basis.

Aside from this, the practical impact of making up a week's worth of missed schoolwork and homework seems difficult. Do they do the work before the trip? On the trip? How can it be done with the normal homework load? (My kids, who are in the 7th and 9th grade have a huge homework load on a regular basis.) If you really consider it, wouldn't it be more fair to your kids to travel at a time when they will not have the burden of trying to make up work and play catch-up when they return? My family will gladly stick with travel during Spring Break and summer vacation, thank you.

My Dear maryintwin....such angst in this string. Certainly not what I think you intended. Alas, I was a "victim" child...pulled out of school by my parents for the sake of travel...regularly. My one regret - I never once made it to the first day of the school year. On the other hand, I am a very successful corporate executive and in my mid 40's show no sign of harm from may parents choices.... except of course my passion for travel. Hey, who knew me better - they knew what I could handle as I am sure you know what yours can handle....do it....and don't sweat it!!

(you may want to just ask them about missing certain days...like the first day of shool....they will tell you)

You've suddenly made me aware of an even bigger problem, bellairegirl. Even if the child is able to keep up with something like three hours of homework per night during the trip -- when does the child also make up the 7 or 8 hours of class work per day? Are some of these people forgetting that things do happen at school and are just considering the usual homework load being all that is necessary to keep up? Or do some of these people really regard school as one big joke --7 or 8 hours a day when their child is learning nothing and that they really aren't missing anything by not being there? Is it any wonder it is so hard finding good teachers when so many parents have absolutely no respect for what the teachers do? When an "typical" parent thinks he can do just as good a job as a teacher in a spare hour or two per day while traveling, there is a very serious problem.

Patrick, that aspect of it has me confused as well. When my kids are out of school for a day because of sickness, I have to pick up their missed schoolwork and they have to complete all of it and the required homework (while being sick). To make up a week's worth of schoolwork and homework can be a significant load.

I have pulled my kids out (elementary school) once to visit DC & the White House, twice to visit relatives in Italy and once to go to Sedona. Do you know that when my husband was diagnosed and told he had less than 6 months to live, that some people at the school tried to make me feel bad for taking the kids out of class for four days? We thought it was going to be our last family vacation together. Thankfully it was not, but I am sure glad we went on holiday that year.

I personlly benefited greatly as a kid travelling with my parents. I learned more on my European vacations then I ever did in the class room. My kids love to travel and I always try to make it educational.

maryintwin, in my second post I was not inferring that you did not come forward earlier and state how many days you take your children out of school. However, I was being very clear that you did not provide the pertinent details about the grades your children are in and the extra-curricular activities that they participate in until much later. Those facts are important.

It is easier to take a child out of class for a few days when they are in elementary school and only have one primary teacher, whereas, in junior high school and high school, a student [usually] has a different teach for each subject.

I thought that a percentage of a student's overall grade included class attendance and class participation. When did that stop?

Okay, here's my final thoughts on this subject.

Not one person who has posted to this thread has said that they believe there is not educational value in travel; in fact, it's been quite the opposite. However, in planning family vacations on a regular basis, why do it at the expense of formal education? If vacations are taken during holidays there is no fighting with the teachers and the school system to make it work, no extra workload for the kids, no detriment to other kids who are in the child's class or team or club, and no implicit lesson taught that my personal choices should have priority over the rules.

While travel during the summer is slightly more expensive, it is no less educational or valuable.

Another point of view. Taking children out of school also makes them "different'and they miss out on sharing events and jokes with the other children and for some, trying to catch up with studies and friendships could be difficult. I was taken out of school twice a week for therapy up intil I rebelled in high school. It was so hard for me to keep up.

Maryintwin, I reread your post and I must be honest and say that you are being selfish. You are considering your travel comfort over your children's education and their teachers' difficulties in accomodating your travel schedules.

Once they reach jr. high it will become more difficult for your kids to catch up on missing work. And high school will be much harder. As someone else pointed out here, the students have different teachers starting in jr. high so it's a large job for everyone.

I would suggest you change your attitude and travel when everyone else is traveling and accept crowds and also look for a good travel agent/consolidator to secure better airfares in peak season.

Boy, do I love a good debate.

Calamari, you and others feel you had a competitive advantage endowed upon you as a result of traveling as children. Hey, that's great. However, as a business executive, you should be more aware of the realities of seeking investment than you have demonstrated.

As is the case for investors and businesses, it is up to the teacher to decide if the enterprise in question is worth the risks they assume in making an investment in it. This is especially true if the enterprise lies outside the investor/teacher's normal line of business. Furthermore, Calamari, as a business executive, you know well (or should) that different banks will evaluate risk differently, so why should teachers be any different? If they are conservative, i.e. risk averse, telling them how inferior is their normal line of business, or insulting their professional ability (as maryintwin did by declaring how little teachers contribute to her children's success) is not likely to make those teachers any less averse to investing their now-maligned abilities. Quite the opposite, I would think.

To paraphrase the proverb, don't bite the hand you complain isn't feeding you enough.

Francophile - 2 of my children are in Jr. High and in previous travels they have not had difficulty making up the work. Because of my business - travel in summer is not a realistic option and as stated in an earlier post, we only have one long break per school year.

Patrick:
Generally on a 10 day trip there are 2 weekends and where I live, children don't generally attend school on Saturdays & Sundays.
Here is one of my earlier posts:

Author: maryintwin
Date: 10/22/2003, 04:12 pm
Message: Let me clarify - they are NOT missing 4 weeks. On a 10 day trip, they miss 4 or 5 days. We do try to incorporate Monday holidays or Friday Teacher-in-Service days. On a 14 day trip, we still try to overlap with scheduled breaks but its not always possible so they may miss 7-9 days. For an average of 2 1/2 weeks missed. All 3 are "A" students and do not require much of any teacher's time...

don't understand the argument about your business being the reason why summer isn't a realistic option- I thought you bought and sold houses. The busiest time for this is spring.

Actually Mary for Real Estate the busiest is time is between May And Labor Day

I think it depends on age, grade, and marks. We regularily did this when our children were in elementary school-for Disneyland and for cruises (usually Dec. 14ish). We have done it a few times in junior high. They miss next to nothing in elementary. If we plan it properly-they miss little in high school that cannot be caught up before or after the trip. Having 30 children in a class slows down learning for most students. This is why they are able to catch up so quickly. Some educators may tell you otherwise but not the ones with experience in dealing with classrooms vs. distance learning programs, home school programs, and web based programs.

What makes you people so special? In a class of 30 students, what if 15 had parents who took their child out of school once or twice a year? Get a grip and make some sacrifices.

And, Maryintwin, you say in your first paragraph: "We HATE to travel during designated school breaks. . . ." Then you come back with some claptrap about your work. Which way is it?

JohnJan-
I agree, when you have students that are already achieving and have established good time mangement and study skills, it really does not require much to get them right back on track if they aren't already. They students usually very highly self motivated.

My husband is actually working with the largest operator of Charter Schools and along with traditional schools, the company is also heavily involved in distance learning programs, home school programs, and web based programs.

The experience of the some 800 teachers this company employs is: once a good student, almost always a good student...

SantaChiara- we usually do not travel in the summer because of work and crowds and we avoid other typical "break times" for the same reason and because our school only has 1 week long break during the school year, they are no other extended "times off" we could even take advantage of. Therefore, I know that most schools have a spring break sometime in March or April - given the choice, I will not travel to "common destinations" at that time of year.

Ultimately - everyone must do what they feel is the right thing for their families. Up to this point I have never received resistance from my daughters about missing school and they have never fallen behind in their studies. And really, is the ONLY place children can learn about responsibility, teamwork, sacrafice, etc., in the classroom?? Many of the posters make it sound as if by missing some school (be it 4 days or 14), my daughters will COMPLETELY miss out and NEVER learn any of the above life lessons. Oh, come on.........

I am not sure why you posted in the first place Mary. You have changed your emphasis simce the first post and the negative responses.
" We HATE to travel during designated school breaks because that is when everyone else is travelling also."
Have the courage to stick to your original post.
Are you really interested in opinions or only the ones that agree with you?

Fiona-
My original WAS about not wanting to travel during peak periods BUT ALSO about teachers who make it very difficult when pulling children out of school by refusing to even try to work with the parents. I guess I never properly requested information about how other posters may have handled similar situations but ASSUMED I would receive that type of feedback and recounting of similar experiences and information on how those issues were resolved.

Mary, Your post appeared to be for the most part a vent. The only question you asked was quite literally:

"Is there any better education about the world & people than the one you get from travling??"

That's a pretty subjective question. In my opinion, while there is an excellent eduction to be gained in travel (and my two daughters were both foreign exchange students, so I'm a HUGE advocate of that), another really important lesson is in learning to live in the environment you are in. For that reason, my concern is that an overriding message you send when you pull them out regularly (and twice a year counts as regularly in my book) is that the regular rules don't apply to them.

Of course they are your children and you obviously will see things differently.

Imagine a place, a classroom, filled with students and a teacher, going through the day to day rigor of teaching and learning. Imagine that same place, in another dimension, the teacher walks in, no students, all30 students gone, she stands at the front of the class and doesn't know whether to teach to the desks or not. Imagine all 30 students off to other lands with their parents traveling, getting a much more valued education about geography, history and that the world revolves around them and not the other way around. Imagine a world where the students return, all on their own time table, but only to find no teacher...she's off to visit Florence, on her own schedule.
Imagine this world, this world is called, The Twilight Zone. (Imagine the theme song in your head).

lyb
you've just described a teacher's dream!!! Teaching would be so much easier without pupils!

Maryintwin,

Your post initially stated "I am tired of the schools making it so difficult for us to travel by penalizing my children by refusing to let them make up the work or not even telling them which assignments/tests they will miss." This statement has a very negative tone and I think this could be, in part, why you have received so many negative responses.

My suggestion would be to have a non confrontational, pro active talk with your daughters' teachers. Explain what it is you would like from them (eg. assignments, notice re exams, etc.) and what you plan to do over the vacation time to help your girls keep up with their work. If the teacher can't (or won't) provide the work, accept it. Remember, teachers generate a yearly plan but revise it DAILY to accomodate students' learning needs. They frequently cannot prepare work two weeks in advance. It is your choice to remove them from school and it isn't the teacher's responsibility to accomodate you.

Remember everyone is entitled to their point of view. Life is too short to get bent out of shape because others disagree with you.

Maryintwin

You've asked for an explanation as to why the teachers won't invest their time in this special educational project for your kids. I HAVE been trying to answer your question from a perspective I thought you would understand. The teachers/schools in question are making a business decision, pure, clean and simple.

You as a realtor must surely be familiar with banks that didn't think the property in question was worth X or Y of a mortgage. Yet you keep asking, in effect, why is the bank, i.e. the teacher, being so 'difficult' as you put it?

For starters, while I doubt you are really as bitchy and unpleasant as some of your posts make you sound, your abilities as a negotiator leave something to be desired. Your posts have been all about how wonderful you are for giving your kids this opportunity, and how the teachers' only possible response should be instant and complete agreement to whatever you demand. You've done nothing to indicate what the teachers are going to gain should they comply. It doesn't seem to be your gratitude, for even though this business of the teachers' giving your kids assignments in advance might seem to be a huge deal, by virtue of the fact that you have been venting on the Internet about it for four days, you want the teachers to see it as a tiny little deal because that's what you'd like them to think.

Maryintwin, this sort of approach would hardly see you closing a deal in real estate, so why in Sam Hill would you expect a different result in this situation?

Don't do it, Lady.
Kids don't like to feel different. I agree with that.

While I agree that travel can be very educational and decent students can well afford to take SOME time out of a school year for this activity, what is being described ("2x a year for 10-14 day trips") is easily beyond the range of what I would personally consider reasonable. Am I some kind of authority? No, but I can certainly understand why the poster is receiving a chilly reception instead of enthusiastic support. Kids have schedules and responsibilities, just like adults.

My advice would be to limit it to only one trip each school year and to make even that trip shorter in duration. Missing almost two weeks of classes in succession twice each school year is too much. Missing one week once in a school year should be manageable. Moreover, by staggering against Spring Break, for example, it is often possible to schedule a fairly lengthy absence with perhaps only 2-4 days of missed classes. That's a prudent, measured approach to the competing interests involved here.

Occasionally, this would not be a problem, but since you describe this as routinely, I think it is sending a bad message to your children. -That it is okay to do what "you" want, even if your joschool) says you need to be present. Establishment of routine and good work habits is just as important as getting good grades or not. That said, I have traveled with my children since they were infants. We have adapted "our" schedule to "their" schedule. Occasionally, we have taken a day or two on either end of their vacation.(but not usually). The idea about not going because it is crowded strikes me as strange because unless you are going to a theme park during the summer months, or a beach vacation/ski vacation at high peak times, crowds have never been a problem for us whether it is a US trip or a European trip. We have avoided European crowds by going on trips in early June, (when our schools are on vacation, but European schools are still in session).
PS, last week my high school daughter had a debate due jointly with another girl. On the date they were intended to present their the debate, the girls parents had taken the girl out of town for a week. I don't know if the parents or girl didn't give the teacher the information, but my daughter had to do the debate alone. With understanding, the teacher stood in for the missing girl. What grade do you think the girl should receive?

I think she should get an "Incomplete". That was also incosiderate of her.

I think that for that assignment, the girl should get a "F", because she totally Failed to do her duty.

Hmmm, let's consider this scenario. Fast forward a few years, darling daughter is now in college.

Mother: DD,what's with your grades! You used to be an A student! Now you're almost flunking! What happened? Explain yourself, young lady. Your father and I aren't paying $30 grand a year for these grades.

DD: Chill, Mom. I'm getting the BEST education in the world! There was this great deal to London and Paris last month and I just had to go! It was fantastic! No tourists around or anything. Had a great time.

And this is even better, Mom. No hassles from my professors...just took seven days off from class and I didn't even tell 'em! I knew they wouldn't mind because I was learning even more out there in the great big world! How could they compete with Paris anyway?

Now what were you calling about, Mom? What...I'm almost flunking?

Plunk!

home school...