Provence - Just Starting to Plan
Apr 19th, 2011, 10:30 AM
#1
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Provence - Just Starting to Plan
Just starting to plan for June/July 2012.
We've been to Nice, Monaco, Cannes but it was some years ago. So this area is optional.
We'd probably like to spend 8-10 days in Provence and then a few in Paris (we've been to Paris 3 times but it's always good for a few more days) before returning home to South Florida.
I figured we could fly to Marseille and go from there.
I'd like one or possibly two bases from which to do day trips.
Last year we spent 10 days based in Florence, took daytrips for 6 days (two of which were actually overnighters with a small backpack and we kept our base hotel). This worked out very well so doing the same here would be an idea and save packing and unpacking and carrying luggage around.
The travel mode of choice is train although my wife managed to survive several bus rides last year by using wrist-bands, pills and closed eyes. We have never rented a car in Europe and don't expect to this time.
Every time I look at a guide book of Provence/Rivera for some reason I lose interest. I'm sure it must be me.
Our style is to wander around the home base in some depth and spend most of the daytrip days wandering in towns. We are not big museum goers although we enjoy the odd one.
Any help as to which towns/cities would fit such an itinerary and or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
We've been to Nice, Monaco, Cannes but it was some years ago. So this area is optional.
We'd probably like to spend 8-10 days in Provence and then a few in Paris (we've been to Paris 3 times but it's always good for a few more days) before returning home to South Florida.
I figured we could fly to Marseille and go from there.
I'd like one or possibly two bases from which to do day trips.
Last year we spent 10 days based in Florence, took daytrips for 6 days (two of which were actually overnighters with a small backpack and we kept our base hotel). This worked out very well so doing the same here would be an idea and save packing and unpacking and carrying luggage around.
The travel mode of choice is train although my wife managed to survive several bus rides last year by using wrist-bands, pills and closed eyes. We have never rented a car in Europe and don't expect to this time.
Every time I look at a guide book of Provence/Rivera for some reason I lose interest. I'm sure it must be me.
Our style is to wander around the home base in some depth and spend most of the daytrip days wandering in towns. We are not big museum goers although we enjoy the odd one.
Any help as to which towns/cities would fit such an itinerary and or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Apr 19th, 2011, 10:45 AM
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I think you will need a car to see Provence. We spent 2 weeks in St. Remy as our base. From there we took day trips to the Luberon, Avignon, Arles, Nimes, Cassis, etc. Without a car, I'm not sure how easy it would be to get around. It is a huge area with much to see.
Apr 19th, 2011, 10:52 AM
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You will gets lots of agreement here on ggrace's suggestion of a car - no way to do the area justice without one. Some things can be seen by bus & train, but the freedom and convenience of a car in Provence cannot come close to being matched by public transportation.
Apr 20th, 2011, 04:52 AM
#5
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Ok. We will not rent a car.
So now we have to decide if over a period of 8-10 days we can experience the flavor of Provence using trains and buses or is it a waste of time and we should go elsewhere.
Are there enough cities/towns/villages that we can access by train & bus?
We had a great time in Tuscany last year getting around by train & bus. Is it really that different? Why?
Thanks.
So now we have to decide if over a period of 8-10 days we can experience the flavor of Provence using trains and buses or is it a waste of time and we should go elsewhere.
Are there enough cities/towns/villages that we can access by train & bus?
We had a great time in Tuscany last year getting around by train & bus. Is it really that different? Why?
Thanks.
Apr 20th, 2011, 05:49 AM
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Last year, I started to research a trip to Provence using public transportation. (I haven't gone yet, however!)
I think it can be done without a car. It will just be a different kind of trip -- you won't see all of the nooks and crannies that you would with a car, but you'll certainly see quite a bit.
You can access St. Remy and Les Baux by bus from Arles during the summer.
Isle sur la Sorgue has bus service to the villages of the Luberon, some with a transfer. Isle sur la Sorgue is on a train line from Avignon, too. I think I read about these bus lines in Rick Steve's (gasp!) book. Check it out.
You may also want to look at group mini-bus tours (such as the villages of the Luberon) out of places such as Avignon and Arles. Several folks on this board have done this, hopefully they can pipe up. The trips aren't cheap, but it's a nice way of getting an overview (albeit a whirlwind tour) of some places you may not be able to access without a car.
Also, the Pont du Gard and Uzes are accessible by bus from Avignon, although the schedule is tricky and requires a bit of planning. You can also continue to Nimes from the Pont and return to Avignon or continue to Arles by train.
Hope this helps. If you got around Tuscany without a car, you can do this, too. It just requires a bit of planning and flexibility. Bon Voyage!
I think it can be done without a car. It will just be a different kind of trip -- you won't see all of the nooks and crannies that you would with a car, but you'll certainly see quite a bit.
You can access St. Remy and Les Baux by bus from Arles during the summer.
Isle sur la Sorgue has bus service to the villages of the Luberon, some with a transfer. Isle sur la Sorgue is on a train line from Avignon, too. I think I read about these bus lines in Rick Steve's (gasp!) book. Check it out.
You may also want to look at group mini-bus tours (such as the villages of the Luberon) out of places such as Avignon and Arles. Several folks on this board have done this, hopefully they can pipe up. The trips aren't cheap, but it's a nice way of getting an overview (albeit a whirlwind tour) of some places you may not be able to access without a car.
Also, the Pont du Gard and Uzes are accessible by bus from Avignon, although the schedule is tricky and requires a bit of planning. You can also continue to Nimes from the Pont and return to Avignon or continue to Arles by train.
Hope this helps. If you got around Tuscany without a car, you can do this, too. It just requires a bit of planning and flexibility. Bon Voyage!
Apr 20th, 2011, 06:52 AM
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Agree with NanBug. It CAN be done by bus BUT you are at the mercy of the bus schedules so do pay close attention. My hub and I also took a van tour that picked us up at our hotel (Acqua Bella) in Aix. It took us to Cassis (boat trip there) on one trip and all around the Luberon on another (Lourmarin, Gordes, Roussillon and Bonnieux). You can only visit these places for as long as the tour permits. Trade offs you should consider but we felt we had sufficient time.
We loved Aix as a base but took bus not train. Lots of markets and shopping/eating places close to our hotel there. From Aix, we bussed to Marseilles, Nimes and got goofed up about bus to Pont du Gard. We visited Arles and Avignon from Montpelier (another good base) by train on a different trip. Another problem for us was that our credit card no longer worked on the train ticket machines in France so we missed a bus by having to stand in a long ticket line. It doesn't have the chip technology required. This subject is covered on another Fodors thread.
Sorry Fodors, but Eyewitness has a nice Provence book with icons showing bus/train and market day and we used that as a guide.
If you have some extra bucks, hire a driver for some of the hardest to get to places. You wife has motion sickness?
We loved Aix as a base but took bus not train. Lots of markets and shopping/eating places close to our hotel there. From Aix, we bussed to Marseilles, Nimes and got goofed up about bus to Pont du Gard. We visited Arles and Avignon from Montpelier (another good base) by train on a different trip. Another problem for us was that our credit card no longer worked on the train ticket machines in France so we missed a bus by having to stand in a long ticket line. It doesn't have the chip technology required. This subject is covered on another Fodors thread.
Sorry Fodors, but Eyewitness has a nice Provence book with icons showing bus/train and market day and we used that as a guide.
If you have some extra bucks, hire a driver for some of the hardest to get to places. You wife has motion sickness?
Apr 20th, 2011, 07:53 AM
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I suggest you get a copy of <I> The Rough Guide to Provence. </I> It has lists of both train and bus options for a number of places in Provence. By using both bus and train you can cover a number of places. Public transportation may not be the ideal way to travel in Provence, but it can be done. Travel is at a slower pace, but IMO that's often better. The Eyewitness guide suggested by TDudette sounds like a good option also. I still remember the day years ago when I took the local bus to Uzès for tha day. Wonderful.
Apr 20th, 2011, 12:36 PM
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I've been to Provence without renting a car, of course you can easily do it and there are more than enough places you can visit on the train line alone, let alone when you add in special tour busses (which have routes planned for tourists, of course, these are prime tourist areas and there will be such day trips) or local buses.
It sounds like the idea of the countryside, etc., just isn't your cup of tea, perhaps, and sounds boring. I admit I'm more a city girl but do like the beautiful scenery and a little light hiking, so enjoy the countryside for a change for that. BUt I always stay in larger places part of my trip because I like them and find them fun and more interesting.
There are train stations for Nimes, Avignon, Aix-en-Provence and Arles for main places you might want to see. There is also one in Isle-sur-la-Sorgue which is a small town with a famous Sunday market (not that I'm saying you must go there, some people like it, I wouldn't if I didn't have a car).
For tourist sites there is Les Baux and Pont du Gard (Roman acqueduct) and you'd have to scout out special buses for them but there is plenty to do otherwise, especially if you've never been there. FOr example, there are plenty of ROman ruins in Nimes and Arles.
Some smaller towns you'd have to find buses to if you wanted to go would be St Remy and Uzes as they don't have train stations. I like Uzes and did take the bus once from Avignon to St Remy but wouldn't put it at the top of a list of things to do (and the bus wasn't that convenient in schedules).
So, I would say of course you can do it. These places have plenty of companies geared to tourists and there are brochures in the tourist offices of bus day trips, for example, to add to your train trips.
It sounds like the idea of the countryside, etc., just isn't your cup of tea, perhaps, and sounds boring. I admit I'm more a city girl but do like the beautiful scenery and a little light hiking, so enjoy the countryside for a change for that. BUt I always stay in larger places part of my trip because I like them and find them fun and more interesting.
There are train stations for Nimes, Avignon, Aix-en-Provence and Arles for main places you might want to see. There is also one in Isle-sur-la-Sorgue which is a small town with a famous Sunday market (not that I'm saying you must go there, some people like it, I wouldn't if I didn't have a car).
For tourist sites there is Les Baux and Pont du Gard (Roman acqueduct) and you'd have to scout out special buses for them but there is plenty to do otherwise, especially if you've never been there. FOr example, there are plenty of ROman ruins in Nimes and Arles.
Some smaller towns you'd have to find buses to if you wanted to go would be St Remy and Uzes as they don't have train stations. I like Uzes and did take the bus once from Avignon to St Remy but wouldn't put it at the top of a list of things to do (and the bus wasn't that convenient in schedules).
So, I would say of course you can do it. These places have plenty of companies geared to tourists and there are brochures in the tourist offices of bus day trips, for example, to add to your train trips.
Apr 21st, 2011, 02:26 AM
#11
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I should probably clarify somewhat.
Until our trip to Tuscany last year, my wife absolutely stayed away from buses due to motion sickness. She decided to attempt buses although we tried to limit them.
Between wrist bands and pills she did fine. So she's somewhat braver now.
I'm not sure what the difference is between a village, town and small city other than size. It appears there may be enough relatively small places to visit that can be reached by train and/or bus.
While we do enjoy scenery, most of our time would be spent wandering through inhabited areas.
I'd rather sleep in only a few places to reduce the amount of packing and unpacking. In fact, last year we kept the same hotel in Florence for 10 days even though 2 of our "daytrips" were actually overnighters.
We'd probably like to sleep in the larger places as we wouldn't go on daytrips every day. So on the in-between days we'd be in a large enough place to occupy us for a day or two.
I'm quite well organized so we haven't really had too many problems with train/bus schedules.
Of course there are always glitches such as the day the train doors wouldn't open for Cortona. We got off at the next stop and took a longer bus ride back up to the town.
I'll check out the books mentioned above that appear to consider the possibility of train/bus travel.
Any more thoughts would be appreciated.
Until our trip to Tuscany last year, my wife absolutely stayed away from buses due to motion sickness. She decided to attempt buses although we tried to limit them.
Between wrist bands and pills she did fine. So she's somewhat braver now.
I'm not sure what the difference is between a village, town and small city other than size. It appears there may be enough relatively small places to visit that can be reached by train and/or bus.
While we do enjoy scenery, most of our time would be spent wandering through inhabited areas.
I'd rather sleep in only a few places to reduce the amount of packing and unpacking. In fact, last year we kept the same hotel in Florence for 10 days even though 2 of our "daytrips" were actually overnighters.
We'd probably like to sleep in the larger places as we wouldn't go on daytrips every day. So on the in-between days we'd be in a large enough place to occupy us for a day or two.
I'm quite well organized so we haven't really had too many problems with train/bus schedules.
Of course there are always glitches such as the day the train doors wouldn't open for Cortona. We got off at the next stop and took a longer bus ride back up to the town.
I'll check out the books mentioned above that appear to consider the possibility of train/bus travel.
Any more thoughts would be appreciated.
Apr 21st, 2011, 08:39 AM
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The difference in village, town and city IS size. The issue is there aren't train stations in small places so you'll never have one in what I would call a village, and not in many towns. St Remy is actually fairly large, and definitely popular, for a place without one, actually. I'm surprised it doesn't have one. I think there are some places around 15K that have one, but not usually (Isle-sur-la-Sorgue, for example, but I think it's approaching 20K), but never below that.
SO you just can't go to villages without a car because there is no way to get there, except some random bus line and they often down' stop in places I'd call villages.
I'd call a village something under 6K population, a town up to 50K and a city 50K plus. But that's just my idea.
SO you just can't go to villages without a car because there is no way to get there, except some random bus line and they often down' stop in places I'd call villages.
I'd call a village something under 6K population, a town up to 50K and a city 50K plus. But that's just my idea.
Apr 22nd, 2011, 05:32 AM
#14
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We'll most likely fly into Marseilles.
I'd like to have possibly two bases from which we could visit other towns using trains/buses (within an hour or so) and also be occupied for a couple of days on the non-daytrip days.
It looks as if Avignon fits that description.
It would also be good if Marseille fit as well since we'd be there already. I'll have to read more. Comments on this?
Aix-en-Provence appears to be one destination close to Marseille. I'll work on a few more if there are any of interest.
Thoughts on this?
I'd like to have possibly two bases from which we could visit other towns using trains/buses (within an hour or so) and also be occupied for a couple of days on the non-daytrip days.
It looks as if Avignon fits that description.
It would also be good if Marseille fit as well since we'd be there already. I'll have to read more. Comments on this?
Aix-en-Provence appears to be one destination close to Marseille. I'll work on a few more if there are any of interest.
Thoughts on this?
Apr 22nd, 2011, 06:52 AM
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I adored Aix as a base. As mentioned above, we never used its train station though-always took busses and 2 van tours. But there were many places to eat and many cute shops. Big university "vibe". We stayed near the town hall and loved that area.
A better train base was Montpelier and lots to do in another university city. This was our base for Arles and Avignon. Try to get a hotel near the "egg" if you stay there.
Also enjoyed Arles and wished we'd made that a base instead of a day trip.
Nimes was a good day trip as was Avignon.
A better train base was Montpelier and lots to do in another university city. This was our base for Arles and Avignon. Try to get a hotel near the "egg" if you stay there.
Also enjoyed Arles and wished we'd made that a base instead of a day trip.
Nimes was a good day trip as was Avignon.
Apr 22nd, 2011, 08:47 AM
#16
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Is Arles a better place as a base than Avignon?
I guess what would make a place a good base would be convenience to other nearby destinations and enough to day in the base town on the non-daytrip days.
As we did in Tuscany, if it makes things better/esier I'm not opposed to an overnight "daytrip" or two. In Tuscany we kept our base hotel room so we only took with small backpacks.
I guess what would make a place a good base would be convenience to other nearby destinations and enough to day in the base town on the non-daytrip days.
As we did in Tuscany, if it makes things better/esier I'm not opposed to an overnight "daytrip" or two. In Tuscany we kept our base hotel room so we only took with small backpacks.
May 24th, 2011, 12:15 PM
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My husband and I just returned from 10 days in Provence, enjoying the kind of trip I think you are planning. We spent three days in Aix and two each in Arles, Avignon and Nimes. That's probably a couple more than you want as "bases", but we would not have skipped one of them. We took mini-van tours to three Luberon villages on one day and to the Pont du Gard, Les Baux and Gordes on another. They were a good introduction to the countryside, and we were able to leave the driving to our excellent tour guides.
The key to travelling by trains is to choose hotels which are within walking distance of the train station. Rick Steves" guidebook for Provence was invaluable for my planning as he gives all the public transportation options for each town/city. We could only plan on a 9-10 day trip, but as I said we wouldn't have eliminated any of our stops. If we'd had a few more days, we'd have added on to a couple of our stops, namely Avignon and Nimes. Avignon has the best access to mini-van tours and to trains to other destinations, by the way. By staying overnight in each place, we had a chance to visit the markets and enjoy the cafes, as well as see the major sites in each.
Many of the replies to your query have been to the point (the ones that don't say you cannot see Provence without a car excepted!), but I wanted to let you know someone had actually done it recently. By the way, my husband and I took a similar trip to Italy and managed to visit Tuscany (Lucca, Montepulciano, Orvieto, Pienza and Siena) without renting a car.
The key to travelling by trains is to choose hotels which are within walking distance of the train station. Rick Steves" guidebook for Provence was invaluable for my planning as he gives all the public transportation options for each town/city. We could only plan on a 9-10 day trip, but as I said we wouldn't have eliminated any of our stops. If we'd had a few more days, we'd have added on to a couple of our stops, namely Avignon and Nimes. Avignon has the best access to mini-van tours and to trains to other destinations, by the way. By staying overnight in each place, we had a chance to visit the markets and enjoy the cafes, as well as see the major sites in each.
Many of the replies to your query have been to the point (the ones that don't say you cannot see Provence without a car excepted!), but I wanted to let you know someone had actually done it recently. By the way, my husband and I took a similar trip to Italy and managed to visit Tuscany (Lucca, Montepulciano, Orvieto, Pienza and Siena) without renting a car.
May 24th, 2011, 12:39 PM
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fjoyner21, your trips sound like those my DH and I made. He didn't want to miss anything by driving and he thought I drove too much like an Italian to begin with so he'd be either mad or petrified with a car. LOL
Myer, as fjoyner says, Avignon may be a more convenient hub for train travel, but I preferred the atmospheric Arles to come "home" to!
Myer, as fjoyner says, Avignon may be a more convenient hub for train travel, but I preferred the atmospheric Arles to come "home" to!
May 24th, 2011, 12:53 PM
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We did a week-long bike tour of the region that began and ended in Avignon. It was a great way to see the area, provided you want an active vacation. As for whether you will like Provence, I can't imagine not! Of all the places I have been, it's where I most long to visit again.
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