Proposed Itinerary - Germany

Old Feb 16th, 2015, 08:18 PM
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Proposed Itinerary - Germany

Four friends planning 15 days in Germany in September. After much thought and consideration, we have decided to rent a car for part of our trip, rather than doing it completely by train. Below is our proposed itinerary so far:

DAY 1: Arrive @ Munich Airport early morning, shuttle to Munich city. Drop luggage at our accommodation, then maybe find a market to wander through, have an early lunch before meeting our bike tour @1230 for the afternoon. Have a leisurely dinner before finding our way back to our hotel for an early night.

DAY2: Train to Dachau for guided tour for 2 of us @ noon, while the other 2 visit a couple museums or just wander.
The 4 of us meet up in the afternoon and head to the BMW Museum/Tour.
Maybe visit one of the beer halls in the evening or just wander. Maybe an evening museum visit?

DAY 3: Pick up rental car in city centre first thing, drive to Zugspitze(am) and visit Garmisch-Partenkchn(pm). ?Stay overnight near here OR drive to Fussen and stay there for the night.

DAY 4: Neuschwanstein Castle, Schloss Hohenschwangau, Fussen. Begin our drive up the Romantic Road with our final destination being Rothenberg ob der Tauber (approx 3 hr drive if no stops realistic?). Is it realistic to expect to get to Rothenberg by approx 7pm with plan to do the Night Watchman's Tour 8pm? Stay overnight near Rothenberg.

DAY 5: Walk the walls of Rothenberg before breakfast, then spend the day sightseeing and shopping. Drive to just north of Ulm where one of us will be visiting family the next day. Stay in Ulm or nearby tonight.

DAY 6: The other 3 of us visits Ulm or takes a day trip to Stuttgart. We all meet up in evening and stay her a 2nd night.

DAY 7: Drive to Gengenbach which will be our base for the next 3 nights for 2 days in the Black Forest, one day in Strasbourg.

DAY 8: Black Forest
DAY 9: Black Forest

DAY 10: After spending the day in Strasbourg, France (celebrating one of our birthdays), return to Germany and drive north -spend the night in or near Heidelberg.

DAY 11: Visit Heidelberg for the day (visit castle and do a little sight-seeing) before driving north and then stay in ?Boppard for next 3 nights as base in Rhine/Mosel River area.

DAY 12: ?Return our rental car to Koblenz first thing in morning, then continue our visit of Rhine/Mosel area via train ?or keep the car while here? Do a Rhine cruise starting @ Bingen, maybe visit Rudesheim Castle prior to doing the cruise- cruise to St Goar.

DAY 13: Visit Cochem, maybe do some bike riding through winery area.

DAY 14: Visit Burg Eltz Castle. Visit Marksburg Castle later in day.

DAY 15: More sightseeing in this area, prior to getting train late afternoon back to Munich, spending our last night near the airport before flying out around noon.

Any comments on the above itinerary are appreciated. Does it seem like we have one too may days in the Rhine/Mosel area that could be better used elsewhere in? Does it make sense to return our car on arrival to this area, or should we be hanging onto it for at least part of our time here? Should we maybe visit Trier while here?
We value and appreciate your comments. Thanks!
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Old Feb 16th, 2015, 09:59 PM
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Unless you are looking for something in particular, a guided tour of Dachau is not necessary.

Other than that, it seems like you are trying to pack in too much stuff in too little time.
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Old Feb 17th, 2015, 03:43 AM
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sparkchaser, re Dachau - so are you saying that an audio tour would be just as good as the tour guide (limited times) offered there?

"you are trying to pack in too much stuff in too little time" - do you have suggestions for what you would remove/change from our itinerary? Thx
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Old Feb 17th, 2015, 05:49 AM
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A bit rushed for me, I'd take something out rather than add something.

I'd give up my car and use the train to get around the Mosel, but I tend to drink wine in the area. Trier has some good Roman remains and while the centre is walkable the horse racing stadium is a bit further out (best foot forward). Trier TI is pretty good at doing half day tours including a vintner's tour.
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Old Feb 17th, 2015, 06:13 AM
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If you plan no time to stop and see any of the places along it, there is no need to bother with the Romantic Road which is another two-lane country highway like many others. There is nothing special about the road. You can just as well take the Autobahn from Füssen to Rothenburg which is notably faster.

Please note the spelling of Rothenburg, otherwise your GPS will mislead you to a small village in the middle of the Odenwald forests.
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Old Feb 17th, 2015, 06:34 AM
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sparkchaser, re Dachau - so are you saying that an audio tour would be just as good as the tour guide (limited times) offered there?

It depends. If you're the kind of person that want to know more, more, MORE then go for a guided tour. Otherwise just take the audio tour.
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Old Feb 17th, 2015, 08:12 AM
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It does seem a bit busy but busy can be ok; just have to expect to be rushed.

Day 4 looks a bit overpacked perhaps.

I get the logistics of so much time in the Black Forest area because of relationships, but if I had to choose 2 of 3 from Black Forest, Rhine, and Trier, I'd drop the Black Forest.

Trier is my favorite spot in Germany, followed closely by the Rhine.

But I'd say have a car for all that; you can "do" much of the little towns and some castles via train and ferry (I've done so), but it's easier and usually faster if you have a car--plus some flexibility built in.

And where are you getting time estimates for travel? if using something like google maps, I'd at minimum DOUBLE what it says. Our experience in the UK, Germany, France, and Spain is that on average our driving time took at least 50% more than mapping estimates, so by planning twice as much, we almost never missed something. And if looking at public transport, you have to factor in so much getting to stations/ waiting/getting from transport to wherever (rooms or sites)--that's why I'd say your days look a little--well, not impossible but maybe a bit unrealistic on the busy days.

Germany is big and beautiful and you almost can't "go wrong" with what you choose--just allow plenty of time.

(I had over 3 weeks in Germany one summer and did MANY day trips by trains and then on the weekends hubby drove me to further away/less accessible sites. I had a GermanRailPass which affords SO much flexibility--BUT I was based in Frankfurt and so didn't have to mess with luggage when traveling, spending time getting into and out of hotels, etc. For me, train travel is most attractive if used for day trips, not for covering so much territory as you plan. Then a car is better--for me and hubby, anyway.)
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Old Feb 17th, 2015, 11:18 AM
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General comments
1. Do not split your time in Munich, 2 nights beginning your trip and then 1 night ending your trip. Instead do final 3 nights in Munich.No need to stay near the airport.

2. Spend more time in alpine area of Garmisch.There are many things to do there and in surroundings.One day you might see Schloss Linderhof, Oberammergau, and Kloster Ettal. There are some nice walks, bike riding, around GP,Partnach Gorge, etc. You can also go to the top of Germany's highest mountain-the Zugspitze $$$(cogwheel railway at least as far as Eibsee, where you can either stay on the cog railway, or else transfer to the dramatic faster Eibseeseilbahn cable car). Also the pretty mountain resort of Mittenwald referred to as a "living picturebook".Karwendelbahn cable car in Mittenwald. On the main street in Mittenwald there is a konditorei with pastries to die for. Just sit outside eating pastries and drinking coffee and watch the world go by.
Day trip to Neuschwanstein Castle, Schloss Hohenschwangau from Garmisch. Make reservation for 1st English tour of the castles.See Wieskirch on way back from Fussen.

We recently stayed in G-P here:
https://www.hoteledelweiss.de/language/en
Really nice. Near the train station,TI,a park with nightly concerts, walking distance to the pedestrian zone and many shops and restaurants. Great breakfast.Nice rooms,public areas. I highly recommend the family owned Hotel Edelweiss.

3. Drop Heidelberg to relieve some of your hectic days.

4. Do Strasbourg as a day trip from Gengenbach.

5. Keep your car in the Rhine/Mosel area.

6. I assume you need to be in Ulm on Day 6 for the 1 person family visit. For the 3 others I would skip Stuttgart, much better other places for a day trip.

Your itinerary may then look like this:

Day 1. Arrive Munich -drive to Garmisch
Day 2. Garmisch
Day 3. Garmisch
Day 4. Drive to Rothenburg in AM
Day 5. Drive to Ulm in PM
Day 6. Ulm
Day 7. Drive to Gengenbach in AM
Day 8. Gengenbach
Day 9. Gengenbach
Day 10. Drive to Boppard in AM
Day 11. Boppard
Day 12. Boppard
Day 13. Drive to Koblenz, turn in car, train to Munich
Day 14. Munich
Day 15. Munich
Day 16. Fly Home.
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Old Feb 18th, 2015, 08:27 AM
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Totally value all of your advice!

The reason for planning to START in Munich, is because on leaving Germany, Oktoberfest is just getting started and hotels etc. much more expensive and we figure everything is going to be so much more busy then. Hence, the 2 days there at the beginning of trip, then return to airport hotel in the evening of our last full day, in order to accommodate our flight out the next day. But I agree, 3 nights together would be more convenient for planning...

Three nights in Garmisch seems quite desirable.

Driving from Garmisch, I agree, we would take the fastest route to get to Rothenburg (thanks for the correction in spelling!)

What day trip would you suggest for us from Ulm? Or would you just stay in Ulm? (rather than our thoughts on doing Stuttgart)

If we left early morning from Ulm and taking fast roads where possible, would it be reasonable to get our friend to her family in Kehl for noon?? Then we would have one day for all of us in Strasbourg, and one day for all in Black Forest (thus 3 instead of 4 days here)-with base hotel being Gengenbach.

Would you plan on a full day driving from Gengenbach to Boppard? (leaving out Heidelberg)

We can take a train out of Boppard to Munich around 1600, so, we would have at least a half day to do something on our final full day in Boppard. Therefore, our drive day to Boppard, 2 full days there, and at least half a day when leaving.

Our friend's family visit day near Ulm, and day in Kehl are flexible - they do not have to occur on specific days. Also, I don't think our friend would mind missing the trip to Rothenburg, but I don't think we want to do Rothenburg as a day trip from Ulm, we would like to spend the night there.

Thanks again for all the invaluable advice!
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Old Feb 18th, 2015, 02:16 PM
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Make sure you book the English speaking BMW tour in advance. Garmisch is so much fun if you love the outdoors. Hike the whole http://www.gapa.de/Garmisch-Partenki...Partnach_Gorge
First two times I just went to what I thought was the end but it circles back above it and it breathtaking.
Great bike trails in that area.
The night watchmen tour is fun and hokey but worth it.
We are getting ready to do Boppard, Cochem, Speyer and Rothenburg in a loop. My river cruise by car. We have debated doing car versus train but want to pull over whenever we see something interesting this time. Smart move about Oktoberfest hotel prices going up towards end of the month. It is easy getting to airport from city center though for early morning flight.
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Old Feb 18th, 2015, 08:27 PM
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texasbookworm, thanks for the driving time info - will definitely calculate more time for our destinations.

dugi_otok and flpab, you have definitely got me wanting to schedule more time for Garmisch area! Appreciate the info.

dugi_otok, what suggestions would you have for a day trip from Ulm?
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Old Feb 19th, 2015, 09:43 AM
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After reading your response I will propose the following revision. It involves more car, less train to make your time better spent.

Day 1. Arrive Munich MUC early AM. Rent a car [Best car choices at the airport to accommodate 4 adults and their luggage ] and drive to your hotel. Take 11:30 Mikes Bike Tour. This tour includes a lunch stop.
http://www.mikesbiketours.com/munich...sighseeing.htm
After the tour you could make a stop at the nearby Hofbrauhaus HB. Early dinner.

Day 2. Check out of your hotel. Take your pre-reserved BMW English tour in AM. Drive to Dachau Museum and Memorial Site. The two of you that were not up to this can hang out at the cafeteria while two of you explore the site. It takes about 2+ hours. Drive to Garmisch for 3 nights (gives you 2 full days in Garmisch area. If you want 3 full days here you can reduce the days in Mosel/Rhine from 4 to 3 nights.

Day 3. Garmisch

Day 4. Garmisch

Day 5. Drive to Fussen area for your AM pre-reserved English tour of Hohenschwangau and Neuschwanstein castles. Hint-do not park in 1st parking lot you see, there is closer parking further on. Pick up your tickets. Smile at those waiting in the long no reservation line. Take your tours. For lunch there is a nice outdoor restaurant you will see as you walk down the hill from the castle. Drive to Ulm /Weidenstetten for 2 nights. I climbed the 768 lung-busting steps of the Ulm Munster for a view of the alps and the Black Forest. I was 25 at the time.

Day 6. Ulm/Weidenstetten. My recommendation for the 3 of you not visiting family is to joy ride to the neat university town of Tubingen with possible stops at Schloss Lichtenstein (Unterhausen) and/or Burg Hohenzollern (Hechingen).

Day 7. Drive 2-1/2 hrs for before noon arrival in Kehl for ones family visit. The 3 of you can hang out or explore the vicinity of Kehl. After the visit continue 1/2 hr drive to Gengenbach for 3 nights.

Day 8. Explore Black Forest

Day 9. Explore Black Forest or day trip to Strasbourg.

Day 10. Drive 3 hours to Rhine for 2 nights (Stay in Bacharach or Boppard) Possible stop in Heidelburg to see castle ruins

Day 11. Bacharach or Boppard

Day 12. Mosel for 2 nights (Stay in Cochem or Boppard)

Day 13. Cochem or Boppard

Day 14. Drive 3-1/2 hours to Rothenburg for 1 night.

Day 15. Drive 3-1/2 hours to Munich (airport area) for 1 night
Add 1 hour if you want to take the Romantic Road passing Dinkelsbuhl, Nordlingen, Donauworth.

Day 16. Fly Home
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Old Feb 19th, 2015, 09:49 AM
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Oops error
Day 15. Drive 2-1/2 hours to Munich (airport area) for 1 night
Add 1 hour if you want to take the Romantic Road passing Dinkelsbuhl, Nordlingen, Donauworth.

Day 16. Fly Home
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Old Feb 21st, 2015, 11:01 AM
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A couple of comments to add to the confusion.

You planned to take the Romantic Road from Fussen to Rothenburg. The name Romantic Road was a great PR trick. There are a few Romantic villages along the way but it should be translated "two lane road with lots of trucks". Don't ge afraid to take the autobahn. Viamichelin.com can help you with maps.

On renting a car. A 19% surtax is added to all cars rented at airports or train stations in German. On top of that traffic and parking are a struggle in Munich, as with most big cities. Public transportation like the U-bahn, S-bahn and trollys are good and easy to navigate in Munich. Rent your car as you head out of town.

You mentioned hanging out at a market for one of your lunches. The Viktualien Markt is a great place for that and it is a block from Marienplatz.

A fun, kind of smaltzy, evening in !unich is the Bavarian Folk evening at 7 pm upstairs at the Hofbrau Haus. Cow bells, alphorns and slap-dancing. Good to reserve your place as it can fill up. Last time I was there you could do it with or withiut the buffett. We have other favorie restsurants so we enjoyed it with a bier.

Have fun.
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Old Feb 23rd, 2015, 07:29 PM
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Okay, so I have tweaked the itinerary - what do you think about this:

Day 1: Arrive Munich, drop luggage, visit Viktualien Markt, then bike tour for the afternoon, ? dinner at Alpenhaus Beer House(I've heard better than Hoftbrauhaus for food and not as touristy??)

Day 2: BMW tour, then 2 of us train to Dachau, the other 2 back into Munich for museums, visit Hoftbrauhaus - maybe do the Bavarian Folk evening. We are seeing very little of Munich other than the bike tour the first day - would like to see the Nymphenburg Castle but don't see how to squeeze that in...

Day 3: Get car rental on way ?out of Munich, drive to Garmisch via ?Mittenwald, Partnach Gorge, Oberammergau (too much??)- night at Garmisch

Day 4: Garmisch - go to Zugspitze, maybe time for Linderhof?, anything else?

Day 5: Garmisch - Hohenschwangau and Neuschuastein Castles, visit Fussen

Day 6: Drive to Ulm, drop off friend to visit family, the other 3 continue on to Rothenburg ob der Tauber - stay overnight

Day 7: Spend more time in Rothenburg before driving back to Ulm, meet up with friend and stay overnight in Ulm

Day 8: Drive to Kehl to get there for noon, friend to visit family for the day while we do ?? - spend night in Gengenbach

Day 9: Visit Black Forest - stay night in Gengenbach

Day 10: Day visit to Strasbourg - leave by 4pm and ?2 hour drive to Speyer (or Heidelberg) for dinner and stay the night. (?rather than back-tracking to Gengenbach for the night)- does that make sense??

Day 11: Drive to Bacharach (or Boppard)- keep the car while in Rhine/Mosel area

Day 12: Bacharach (or Boppard)

Day 13: Cochem

Day 14: Cochem

Day 15: Cochem but return car to Koblenz and take 1600 train back to Munich Airport hotel

Day 16: Fly home.

How does this look?

Some questions:
1) Where would one pick up a car rental on the way "out" of Munich?
- I have checked a few places on the outskirts and they are not open on the Sunday morning when we need the car.

2) BMW visit- everyone says how great it is but there are tours to the museum(1.5 hrs), the WELT(80 minutes), and the factory. What is suggested and how much time should one plan for this.

3) Is it best to take a train from BMW to Dachau, or back into Munich city and out to Dachau again?

4) If we keep the car in the Rhine/Mosel area, would Bacharach be the better place to stay (over Boppard)?

5) Return car on last day to Koblenz. How much time should one allow if boarding train around 4pm?

6) Would you remove one day from Rhine/Mosel and spend one more day in Garmisch area??

I really like the viamichelin.com route planning site - very helpful. Are you in agreement with texasbookworm that one should plan on twice as much time as these route calculators say it should take to get to a destination?? I plan on using the fastest routes for getting to our destinations.
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Old Feb 23rd, 2015, 09:26 PM
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I have checked a few places on the outskirts and they are not open on the Sunday morning when we need the car.

That is going to be a problem with almost all non-airport locations. Sorry. You might check the Munich Bahnhof -- I can't remmber if their rental counters are open on Sundays or not.
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Old Feb 24th, 2015, 04:10 PM
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Some questions:
>

May have to rent at main train station and pay a premium like you do at airports.

>

http://www.bmw-werk-muenchen.de/lowb...ielregeln.html
http://www.bmw-plant-munich.com/lowb...alog/wf_en.pdf

You want the factory tour which is 2.5 hours. Note that there no tours on Saturday!

>

Moot point. See 2) above. See websites of BMW and Dachau Memorial.
http://www.kz-gedenkstaette-dachau.de/index-e.html
http://www.bmw-welt.com/en/

>

I prefer Bacharach as a Rhine only place to stay.

>

Problems here. Do not know if there are any car rental locations at Koblenz train station. You will have to find out from car rental drop off downtown how to get to train station. 4 PM is late to leave for Munich, 5 hour trip. Then 45 min, 3/hr, Lufthansa airport bus followed by taxi (need 2) to your airport hotel. Better to stay in Munich proper even though it is Octfest. May be much more cost effective to drive to Munich airport hotel from Cochem?

>

I would. Because you are staying in Heidelberg the night of Day 10 you could get to Bacharach morning of Day 11 giving you extra time in Rhine area.

>

The viamichelin times are accurate as is. Only time you need to add is rest/fuel stops, 20-30 min per stop. viamichelin suggests stopping every 2 hours. I usually do not stop that often. Use their Michelin recommended routes, not their fasted routes.
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