Problem with London apartment rental

If the terms and conditions of the rental are that deposits are non-refundable then that's it. Is the apartment very inconveniently located or is it just not near Greenwich market. Any reason you need to stay by Greenwich market? Can you keep this apartment?

Is there anyone else at Holidaylettings you can communicate with other than this rental agent?

I know from your other thread that you're planning a big trip with a limited budget so hopefully you have learned from this experience. It's up to you to clearly understand the agency requirements regarding deposits and other things (cleaning, breakage, etc.) involved in renting. This is also true of hotel bookings.

Have you received a written copy of the terms and conditions so you can review other aspects of the rental and understand your obligations?

It is VERY inconveniently located. About 1 hour out of the city, in Woolwich. If it was in any area centrally or even 10-15 minutes out I wouldn't be bothered but being that it is an hour each way it would be a major issue to have to do that for the 7 days I will be there.

My initial contact with the agent was only about how to send the deposit. I never receieved a formal contract let alone a cancellation policy and I never asked for one. (again, my mistake) and there is no one else at the site since it is only a listing site and everyone is in charge of their own advertisement, different rules apply with each listing. So that means no one else i can talk too =(

I've contacted my bank about doing a stop payment or possibly even closing out the account since the agent won't work with me but I think it is a little unethical (major fear of karma).
What does everyone think?? I have until noon tomorrow to decide.

After I posted here I read your other thread and it sounds like the agent misrepresented the location of the apartment. I would stop payment on the check based on that. I've only rented a few apartments but only once did I get a contract.

It seems like false advertising to me if the advertisement stated "centre of London" and it's clearly not - very misleading. I'd stop the payment if it was me. However, I never book anything until I can get the address up on googlemaps and see exactly where it is. But that's cold comfort now I realise.

It does seem like you've been deliberately mislead and I wouldn't have any qualms about cancelling the payment. But that's just me.

thanks adrienne. I'm in the process of getting everything figured out. I want to just put a hold on the transaction because I do recognize it as my fault for possibly misunderstanding but I feel kind of cheated and would like for them to actually work with me a little bit. i was just looking for a partial refund since i did make the reservation but it's 6 months out!!! i suppose i'm just looking for a little fairness since i am giving them a good share!

Forget looking for fairness. The apartment was misrepresented and you have been told the deposit won't be refunded. I think you have plenty of information at hand to know that you shouldn't try to work with these people. Stop the payment!

Your other thread mentioned the flat was in Greenwich. Then later you posted the agent said it was 5 minutes from Big Ben and that is what I went w/.

But you later clarified that he had actually said it is 5 minutes from Greenwich market. It is a lot closer to Greenwich Market than to Big Ben - but still much more than 5 minutes.

If it is truly in Charlesmere Gardens like you said - it is about a 20 minutes walk from any sort of public transport and approx 45 minutes from the Market in Greenwich.

However, in your enthusiasm -- is there any chance you have the street wrong?? Hopefully so -- you did confuse a couple of his statements.

Even parts of Greenwich wouldn't be that convenient, but this street is in Thamesmead and not really near any form of public transport.

But -- is there any possibility you have the address wrong?

Hi KayDoll,

I have just posted on your 'Apartment Rentals' post with some recommendations for you. Coincidentally, you get a mention janisj - hello to you - as I got onto www.homelidays.com thanks to your recommendation. I've also posted Chris' (from ex Scala House)details who may be able to help with an apartment.

Def'lly doa 'stop payment"pn the check. it is dobltful the rental agency will spend lots of energy recovering what to them is not a large amount of money. Besides--they , or their client, misrepresented the property. Now we are talking about truth in advertising

<<can he just deny my request for a refund since he did not send me a legitimate contract with cancellation policy to begin with?>>
If the cancellation policy is not posted, I make it my business to find out what the policy is before booking.

Holidayslettings is a website that puts you in touch with the owner, with whom you then deal direct; there's no point trying to get them to help you.

Can you post a link to the flat so we can take a look at it? Or the Holidaylettings property #? I've tried looking over the listings for E and SE London and none that I found seem to match the one in question.

So maybe (just maybe) it is actually somewhere else???

Here's the rundown, when I checked out the advertisement it said 5 minutes walk to Greenwich market (I'm thinking Greenwich village). Then when I emailed him he said 5 min walk to big Ben. The property listed it is in charlesmere garden but i didn't check the locations of these two landmarks and just took his word for it. And this next part is great, I went back to check the advertisement and i can't find it. The link of the property that he sent me in the first email is now dead.

Tried being nice, didnt work. I'm canceling payment today.

If it is dead then you should definately contact holidaylettings as that is not normal.

ps...can you post the dead link?

As long as you have written confirmation (the emails, etc) that the location was misrepresented to you as "5 minutes from Greenwich Market" and "5 minutes from Big Ben", then you are on strong ground to report him to the Greenwich Trading Standards Office:
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/search/postcode-search.cfm

http://www.holidaylettings.co.uk/rentals/central-london-zone-2/9021

On a different note.... the apartment i already booked and paid the deposit for in Rome has called to let me know that that apartment is no longer available. i can either book another (more expensive) apartment (they were willing to give me a discount due to inconvenience) or they can refund me. blah. not a great start to my morning so far.

CAn see it comes up with this....

Home Not Available
I'm sorry, this home is no longer advertised on Holiday Lettings.

was hoping to come up with a cached page from Google, but no luck. However contact Holiday Lettings..seems odd that it has disappeared so fast...,maybe HL binned them, to say 5 mins from Greenwich market and then 5 mins from Big Ben is so obviously dodgy that I suspect that you aren't the firsst to be unhappy.

i thought it was quite expedient of them also, to disappear so quickly. i suppose one last hoorah before they had to leave.

<< the apartment i already booked and paid the deposit for in Rome has called to let me know that that apartment is no longer available >>

Kay - it usually takes more time to find good lodging on a tight budget but don't give up and don't despair - your hard work will pay off and you'll have a great time once you get there.

I would report them. This is sounding more and more like a scam to get deposits out of people and then scarper.

I agree with PatrickLondon. I hope you got your bank to stop the transaction

Got the problem with the Rome apartment figured out. They gave me a nicer apartment for only 50E extra. Still under my budget. I've google mapped it and it is only a few minutes away from the initial apartment. Glad that crisis was averted. www.dailyflats.com . great company they were very nice in trying to help me find a solution. gave me a great discount too.

and i'm heading to the bank right now so i can stop the payment.

thanks everyone for your concern. will let you all know what comes of it.

Please do write to Greenwich Trading Standards with all your evidence - they would need to know in case it's happened to other people, and would certainly be in a better position to know what's needed to stop it happening again.

Sorry, the link I posted earlier doesn't work. Try this:

London Borough of Greenwich
Directorate of Community Safety and Integrated Enforcement
Riverside House
Woolwich High Street
Woolwich
London
SE18 6DN

fax: +44 (0) 20 89218380

Not this one ?
http://www.holidaylettings.co.uk/rentals/central-london-zone-2/9026

will do. should i expect a reply from them?

Actually your first port of call should be Holidaylettings and then maybe trading standards......
HL maybe able to give you some info....Trading Standards will be a bit stuck as there's no advert to show at the moment and only an email address for the owner.

I would help but i've been banned over a panda.

So you're stuffed.

Don't blame me.

KayDoll, What you're running into is why a lot of people, especially first timers, choose to stay at budget hotels instead of trying to rent apartments. It's MUCH less of a gamble and easier to deal with. Is there a reason you're so set on going the apartment route?

For me a budget hotel has all kinds of advantages. First off being it's easy to know their location! Second there's a front desk staff to help you with. Third they aren't likely going to disappear with your deposit. Etc. Etc.

spoke with holidaylettings. they take no responsibility for their adverts. all qualms must be resolved with either the owner/agent. if they don't communicate back, too bad so sad for you. =/

hehe and Suze you make a good point. i just thought that booking an apartment would give me a little more wiggle room with my budget since they have kitchens and there would be a little more space compared to the hotel. it hasn't been terrible so far aside from the london one. DAILYFLATS.COM has been very accomodating in trying to fix their mistake. we've resolved the Rome apartment situation in about 1 hour.

UPDATE:: went to bank and paid a fee to try and stop the transaction. bank does not guarantee that it will work but will reimburse me the fee if the transaction does go through. if it does clear it will be up to the owner/agent to reimburse me as i cannot claim a fraudulent charge since i did "approve" the transaction. the claim of false advert will have no grounds in this matter.

c_w: "I would help but i've been banned over a panda."

Not again ??!? jeeze

KayDoll: A couple of points to remember.

• You don't need to have a 'real' map to find locations. If you google an address or postal code the map will display w/ the location pinpointed. And in a case where you don't know the exact address like the 'missing' apartment, just google the street name. You may or may not get a map - but one of the links is bound to have a neighbor address or postal code and then you can google that. Other websites work the same way - but google may be the easiest. It is a priceless tool because you not only get the map -- but more than likely an actual photo of the property.

• If a price is lower than anything else you've seen -- there is probably a really good reason and you need to stifle the 'enthusiasm' a bit and do some hard research starting by asking here. BTW -- this goes for hotels just as much as for apartments. Lots and LOTS of cheap hotels in London and other cities misrepresent their location.

the thing about hotels is quite often it's easier to find input from previous guests (reviews on the internet). finding someone who's rented your exact apartment, or even used the same broker, is a bit more of a needle-in-a-haystack.

that said I just remember a fairly cheap apt two girlfriends shared in Paris last year in the 1st. i'll see if I can find a link for you. it worked out to 75usd per person per night, they stayed more than a week.

As far as needing "more space" or a kitchen when I'm traveling in Europe, neither of those are important to me. And while we're at it with the warnings, pay attention if dimensions of an apartment are listed. often they are TINY, hardly bigger than a hotel room.

hehe i don't understand the panda thing? i thought it was a rogue post. can anyone care to explain??

janisj: i've learned my lesson. =D i've requested full location detail as well as rental agreement with all of the places i have been looking at now.

kayDoll: Meant to add-- Holidaylettings is just a listing site -- like craig's list. It really is up to you since you are dealing w/ individual owners.

vrbo is better because, even though it is also a listing service, it does have a guarantee feature - against fraud/theft/major misrepresentation.

I personally wouldn't have a problem using any of these sites (well maybe not Craigslist) - I know London pretty well and know what red flags to look for.

For a newbie to London/flat rentals - I think sticking to well established letting agencies is a bit safer. Not that you need to do that - especially since there are a lot of London residents/experts on here who can tell you where things are. Another thing to look for (and mainly this would mainly be w/ agencies) is using a credit card for deposits. That way you are mostly protected from fraud.

Our posts crossed -- "i've requested full location detail as well as rental agreement with all of the places i have been looking at now"

good idea.

(The 'banned' fodorite is our resident lovable fuzzball (fuzz actually) who keeps getting sent to the woodshed for 'issues' w/ the editors. And it is a shame really.)

i have now given up on looking for an apartment in london

1. it isn't cheaper than a hotel
2. like everyone said: hard to find exact location/experience from others
3. more pain in the butt!!! lol

i'm thinking about bidding on priceline. any suggestions?

KayDoll, there's a thread by tds0212 on London hotels. LONG thread.Check it out.

Hi kaydoll. Seems like you had really bad luck with holidaylettings. Earlier this year, I booked a really great apartment in London, for 5 nights through that site. It was not cheap but it was REALLY luxurious and pretty well located - you could see St Pauls Cathedral from the corner of the street. It was from a rental company advertising their places on holiday lettings, not from an individual, though. I would use holidaylettings again

Oh, has poor CW been deaded again?
Do the editors decide to ban people for reasons of their own, or do they act on complaints?
I remember another time when he was banned and a poster wrote a gloating message.

i think a normal hotel is an excellent idea. just regroup and read thru the budget hotels London's threads. or better yet take a suggestion from janisj!

I see that David West has also been banned.
How stupid!
I am in my eighth decade and have never found any of his posts offensive.
He is always amusing and his advice on London is extremely valuable.
I get the impression that the editors are a bit like Saffy in Ab Fab trying to keep their turbulent elders in check.

Miss P, sometimes in the Lounge, a certain person's comments on our transatlantic cousins go somewhat beyond what might be considered acceptable in Lady Bracknell's drawing room.....

Meant to add-- Holidaylettings is just a listing site -- like craig's list.

It's slightly more than Craig's List....I think it costs abou £200 a year ro advertise and has just been bought by TripAdvisor

KayDoll, could you tell us what happened? Did the transaction go through or not? If you're "out" the cash we'd like to know.

And yes, CW's been banned again. He thought it was over a video clip he posted in The Lounge about a cute panda but as PatrickLondon notes, it may well be over remarks about "transatlantic cousins" (specifically Seppoes) that resulted in his banning. And since he's one of the great resources on London, it's absurd.

But Kay, do please let us know if you're out money. It's criminal in the most literal sense.

BC

Update:: so as of right now the charge for the stop payment as well as the deposit for the apartment have both gone through. i was told by the account manager that that would happen and after it's posted on my account in 24 hours the charge would be "reversed" if not, they will reimburse me the stop payment fee. i really hope it does work though b\c that guy has just dropped off the face of the earth!!!

strange. and too bad. keep us posted. we're cheering for you.

Update:: checked account this morning and IT WORKED! I just hope he can't dispute the stop payment through pay pal. =\ so far so good but I'm giving a few days before I truly celebrate

Well done !

Btw since nobody else seems to have mentioned this, Greenwich is not in the centre either

Yay! That's good news! = )

Update:: I knew my pessimistic tendencies would be right on someday. So...since I payed through pay pal the money that was refunded into my account was through them and not the owner. (He has no idea as he already received his money) I logged onto my pp account earlier and it showed me a negative balance, of which I of course had to clear up or else they charge u interest and ban you. I had to open a dispute against the owner through pp and that only means that pp in the sort of mediator. Owner and I will be contacting each other through pp and in20 days if we can't come to agreement I have the right to file a claim in which pp will sort of be the judge in the situation they will come to the final verdict. What a pain in the butt! Well...I just hope that we can come to an agreement before going to the court of pp because there would be no telling what would happen there. PP service guy told me he has no idea what happens in cases sometimes as those that seem like a sure thing aren't and those that seem liketheyhave no case end up winning. I guess I'll be keeping everyone up to date again

Long story short.... I'm still out $223 until this is all figured out

"The Big Ben, House of Parliament. Tower of London where all the crown jewels are kept. The Buckingham Palace. A visit to Madame Tussaude. A shopping trip to popular Oxford street and Harrod of Knightbridge in WestEnd of London and the tranquail night life of London.whether it is business or leisure. This one bedroom flat provides luxury accommodation in a highly desirable location. Located in one of the most historic parts of London, the area also boast a wealth of offerings in the performing and visual arts and an excellent culinary selection. The Square Mile lies just across the River, City Airport is a short drive away, the West End and Canary Wharf are both quick journeys on the Jubilee tube line. Great London attractions such as the Tate Modern, St.Paul’s, Shakespeare’s Globe, Millennium Bridge, HMS Belfast, Tower Bridge, the Tower of London, and Bermondsey Antiques Market are all within an easy drive."

If it is the apartment that willit posted??

Be very wary of any listing that says :-
"The Big Ben
The Buckingham Palace
Madame Tussaude
Harrod

Always check the spelling - tranquil isn't spelt tranquail.

Dead give away!

Yep - "Tate Modern, St.Paul’s, Shakespeare’s Globe, Millennium Bridge, HMS Belfast, etc etc . . . . are w/i an easy drive" ?!! (especially that drive across the Millennium Bridge)

And the poor souls who may actually think they should drive to HMS Belfast or St Paul's. $%#@!&

The description willit posted plays - to put it mildly - fast and loose with the truth. It isn't in zone 2; it's nowhere near the Jubilee Line; I'd even dispute that the Dome is 5 minutes' drive away, let alone that all the sights it lists in central London are "an easy drive" (and who drives in central London). To be fair, to those who know, it's pretty clear that it focusses much more on Greenwich and the limited charms of Woolwich, and it may well be a nice flat in a pleasant development. But the fact remains, it's behind the Tesco in Thamesmead, a humdrum part of the world with a long trek to anywhere a tourist is likely to want to go. And if this is the advert that sold it to KayDoll, she has a strong case on those terms alone, let alone the strange way the person she was dealing with behaved - and the proper authorities need to be involved, in case there is any element of fraud rather than over-enthusiastic mis-selling.

no this is not the advert. i can't even pull it up anymore because it's been pulled from the site.

KayDoll, if anyone has a case, it is you. Don't stress yourself out!

sam86: Thanks a lot. I am prepared to eat the money if need be. I'm just so frustrated that it's taking so long to reach a resolution. But no matter, I was reading maitaitom's trip review from a few years ago yesterday and I have a renewed spirit. Attitude is everything, don't let anything get in your way of a good time, and of course, a big glass of wine makes everything better!! =P

Attitude is absolutely everything = ) We all have our fingers crossed for you!

KayDoll, could you please e-mail me at:
thebookchick @hotmail.com (but without any spaces)

I know someone in London who might be able to assist you with the matter, and has offerent to help.

Thanks,
BC

What was the total cost of the apartment? If what you paid for deposit was half, then it works out to around 40£ a night. And you said you are going in six months - so late Feb/early March? There are actually a few hotels that aren't that bad for around that price in low season for a single. I stayed at the Craven Gardens hotel in Bayswater and it was OK. I just checked it for my upcoming trip in Nov and it was around that price. This trip I need a double, and want to be close to Victoria Station so I didn't book it but I did think it was a decent hotel. There are a lot of hotels in the Bayswater area that aren't too horrible. The price does seem to vary greatly depending on dates. London as you have discovered is quite expensive.

Will you be solo on this trip? For a single I rarely find an apartment as good a deal as a hotel. I've only found it worth the trouble (and risk) to rent an apartment for 3 or more people. At least with a hotel you can check Trip Advisor. Even though some reviews are great and others bad for the same hotel, if there are several reviews you can get a really good idea of a place. I no longer book anything I can't check on Trip Advisor. And of course, now you have learned, never book anything without checking google maps.

"At least with a hotel you can check Trip Advisor."

Apartments get reviews on TA and many other sites

Because of the greater number of people who pass thru various hotels, you're more *likely* to find Trip Advisor reviews on them, rather than a particular single apartment rental in all of greater London.

KayDoll, Well I know you've already figured this out, and perhaps learned this lesson the hard (expensive) way, but I'd never send money to a place without some kind of secondary confirmation they are legit. Be it a review, a personal suggestion here on Fodor's, seeing the place on a Google Earth map, reviews on Trip Advisor. Something.

*sigh* yes, i have indeed learned my lesson. =( Owner just replied and is still adamant about not refunding me. Can't dispute as he did send me the address and I can't check the site anymore since it's not up. PP doesn't care as long as someone pays somebody and they get their money. blah. I just really want to be down with this and have just decided to no longer dispute. it's just money, it can be made. obviously if he wants to hold onto it so badly he needs it more than 1. =/ I have to get on with the rest of my trip planning and cannot be worried about this situation any longer. thanks so much for all of the concerns and well wishes. i hope you all will stick around to help me plan the rest of my !!!GOING TO BE FRICKIN' AWESOME" trip. =D


isabel:: i'm starting my trip in london and will be there 03/24/2011 - 03/31/2011. it will be my b/f and me. the apartment was for 420 pounds and the deposit was for 1/3 of the 420pounds. that would be 60pounds a night. i am currently working with Chris as he was highly referred by many fodorites. i hope he's able to find me something. so far he's been very helpful.

I've increased my budget in London to max $135/night in hopes of finding a better hotel/apartment in a much better location. walking distance to major sites. hopefully this all pans out well. will you everyone updated.

I meant done** not down. hehe

I'm sorry = ( But I understand that you want to just put it behind you. So let's get you excited about some other aspect of the planning = )

=D pls don't be sorry because it's definitely not your fault. i sincerely accept it as a fault upon both parties (mine as well as theirs) I certainly won't be so hasty next time and definitely will ask for and check all policies before departing with my money so easily. i hope i helped someone else out there so that they won't be as silly as i was.

i will be opening some new threads soon as i'm trying to plan the transport/accomodations part of my trip and so i hope to be hearing from everyone soon!!! =D

KayDoll,

I like to think that people like that 'agent' will pay dearly sooner or later, preferably in this lifetime.

I've good luck with both Hotwire and Priceline in London (and recently a really nice Priceline Seattle stay). If you search this board you'll get some tips about areas, and a short time on betterbidding.com will help you get started.

Is there a such thing as an easy drive in London area?

I think you should post all the available information you have on the renter on this forum and on the Trip Advisor forum -- name, business address, etc. Make it the most costly $223 he has ever made.

Of course, considering the preposterous English libel laws, you should do this after you leave the UK.

KayDoll - I suggest you do contact bookchick (see earlier in thread) as there is a tacit offer to help there, I strongly suspect from somebody who really might be able to help you get your money back (or at least stop other people being similarly ripped off.)

i've contacted bookchick as suggested although i really don't know what can be done. i mean it's such meager (to them not me) amount of money that i don't think any legal action would even be allowed in court. and i'm still debating whether or not i'll be posting his info. (i'm very scared of karma) although if any fodorites or trip advisor members want his information just email me and i will provide the info.

"I really don't know what can be done"

Maybe nothing, but say you lived in an apartment and were misrepresenting it, taking deposits etc.
And say a large member of the police force happened to be passing, knocked on your door, and suggested that you might wish to stop? OR treading standards started asking awkward questions?

Obviously I am not suggesting such things might occur - in fact it is probably just purest fantasy. However, I seem to recall bookchick might know of somebody living near Greenwich.

hehe that's a good fantasy. like something out of the movies. *ahhh...if only* =D

Personally I'm not into pursuig vendettas. KayDoll realizes she is at least in part at fault here for jumping the gun and sending a deposit without fully researching the property/owner. I'd just leave it at that. Big lesson learned on trip planning for a couple hundred bucks lost.

Willit..our minds work the same, lol! Hi Bookchick!

Not a vendetta. The s.o.b. should be affirmatively misrepresenting where his apartment is. Simple as that.

The caveat emptor rule of life doesn't apply without qualification. Every state in the US has some manner of consumer protection law governing this type of transaction and the UK laws are even more stringent.

Even better would be someone like Vinnie Jones (google him) knocking on the lessor's door with a message . . .

It clearly sounds like it was misrepresented by the five minute thing and the location, but I think this is an indication of why people who don't know a lot about an area and have never rented a holiday apartment need to be more careful and take some responsiblity for what they do. If you had the address, you should check it, not just take somebody's word (particularly the "minutes" thing, as a lot of landlords exaggerate how many minutes it is from something). If it said five minutes, it usually is about 15. Granted, if yours is 45, that's different.

Also, why would you even pay someone money without getting a contract and then blame them for not giving you one when you enver asked for one? YOu need to ask for one and if you don't get one, you don't do business with such people.

I'm not sure the lesson was learned that you need to be more careful, you shouldn't rent from total strangers off the internet and send them money, if you want a contract, you have to obviously ask about that first thing and if that is important, don't go ahead without one and then when you have problems, blame others for not giving you one when you never asked or insisted on one.

Hmm. Should have said "the s.o.b. should NOT be affirmatively misrepresenting where his apartment is."

I suspect that most of us will never understand this situation. I doubt if I will. There is one reference above to Greenwich (village) that just left my head spinning.

And absolutely no suspicion that maybe Big Ben and Greenwich weren't BOTH in central London? No willingness to jump at a carefully put offer of real help, but all the willingness in the world to send money via Paypal to an advertiser with no investigation into said apartment?

Very odd.

I'm also further puzzled by the oh-well-water-over-the-dam attitude. Me, I would be seriously considering how the loss will affect the rest of my trip, and how I can a) get my money back, b) vet all future lodging options, and c) help others from falling for this trap.

Just because the flat owner removed his ad from one site, doesn't mean that he isn't likely to still be advertising.

Also, isn't it very very very very odd that TWO people are falsely advertising apartments on the SAME STREET, on the same site, with same lies about distances?

This all doesn't ring true for me.

If we are, however, dealing with simple naivete and difficulty communicating, then the OP ought to carefully read Paypal's dispute pages. They do describe how to file a dispute.

But wait, I'm further confused: why go to the bank to stop payment on a Paypal payment? Why not file the dispute with Paypal immediately, from the comfort of home? So confusing.

to answer a bit of the questions:

Christina: i already admitted that the fault was partially mine. in my haste, i failed to ask for a contract and just sent the money with a lot of expectations. also, i should have checked the area and information more thoroughly instead of putting blind faith into a person i don't know. lesson learned. please don't criticize me because i was excited and in doing so made a mistake. the fault however, also lies with the owner/agent because they failed to respond to my many messages and they severely misrepresented the location.

tuscanlifeedit: the apartment is indeed in the same location of charlesmere gardens but it is not the same pictures which is why i said that the apartments are not the same. it also is not the name of the person i was corresponding with. please don't think that i am taking a blase attitude towards this because i am not. i am in active communication with paypal in regards to recovering my funds and i did not go through them at first because i really didn't know that i could. i thought that going to my bank would reverse the transaction from the owner's account and then i would be done with it. as of right now i have filed 2 disputes with paypal and still waiting for them to be resolved.

i'm still fighting this and doing so to the most of my abilities but at the end of the day after i've done what i can and still don't win at the very least i know i've tried. like i said before money is just money. it can be made. i will take bookchick's offer of help when the situation has been resolved but i just wanted to avoid prolonging this problem any further. i really don't know how many more times i can say that i have honestly learned my lesson and i would just very much like to move on.

OK, I get carried away with being cranky sometimes, and I apologize.

Poor KayDoll - sympathies to you. I know from the other apartment thread that you are back on track and learning fast as you go. This whole travel business can be very daunting.

Anyway, Kay you've copped a lot of criticism but everyone makes mistakes and I love the saying 'He who makes no mistakes makes nothing'.

We're all here to help Kay - so keep those questions coming - I'm keen to see where you end up staying and hearing all about your trip.

Thanks everyone. No need to apologize it's been a crazy situation but onward I go with my trip planning and having a good time is all that matters.

I think it's great that bookchic's friend is offering to help out.
Especially in light of the controversial panda thing. Shows you that the helping spirit that brings people here can't be snuffed out by multiple bannings.

I may be off base but I'd bet the two apartments are being offered by the same person, even though the names are different. Too many similarities in the "blurbs" about the location, etc. Not out of the realm of possibility that this is a bit of a scam by someone who owns a couple of flats.

KayDoll, not sure what your budget is (sorry, haven't read all your details) but there's a Holiday Inn Express in Earl's Court that you should look into - you can probably get it on Priceline or Hotwire, but the price isn't too bad through other, more transparent, sites. It gets decent reviews, is reasonably well located and includes breakfast. Pretty good for a budget hotel. If not there, then you can likely get a four star place in Kensington for under $100 night on PL.