Preliminary Switzerland Itinerary

Hi yk, I have a few comments.

If your parents travel to St Moritz and contine the following morning to Lugano, they really don't have time to see anything in St Moritix (the Glacier Express arrives between 5 pm and 6 pm, depending on which train they take and the Bernina Express departs at 9.56 amd 10.00 am or 12.04). So, at best they have the morning in St Moritz. An alternative would be to stay in Chur, often referred to as Switzerlands oldest town. Chur might be a better choice, it's flat, St Moritz is hilly, Chur would be easier to walk around. Unless your parents specifically want to go to St Mortiz, I stay overnight in Chur. It is best to sit on the right side of the Bernina Express when travelling southbound.

You can use the Swiss pass on the GLacier Express and the Bernina Express but you still need to make reservations in advance and pay a surcharge to use these trains, CHF 30 for the Glacier Express and CHF 9 for the Bernina Express.

From Interlaken they can visit Ballenberg (open air swiss museum) if interested.

Not sure why your parents are spending 3 nights in Zurich, it's just a city and not the "real" Switzerland. Schaffhausen made be done as a day trip from Zurich if this appeals to your parents.

The only other comment I have is that I'd remove a day from Zurich and add a day (overnight) in Zermatt after Interlaken, your parents can travel on the Glacier Express from Zermatt. They may also be interested in Klein Matterhorn or Gorgengrat from Zermatt on the day they arrive, assuming they travel in the morning to Interlaken.

Where did you get the price of the Swiss Rail pass from? I checked prices with Rail Europe and they are quoting more than the price you have quoted. I'll be in Switzerland next month and I was planning on buying my rail pass once I arrive.

Hi retired,

Thanks for your input. My dad isn't too excited about going to Zermatt just to see Matterhorn. They've seen it on their honeymoon trip, and it seems like going to Zermatt is simply adding an extra (dead-end) leg to their trip.

I wasn't a huge fan of St Moritz, but I saw that Chur is an alternative. I haven't been to Chur except passing it on the train and somehow got the idea that it's an ugly industrial town. If it's relatively scenic, I think it's a good alternative to St Moritz.

The 3 nights in Zurich is really just a base for them to do daytrips. They need to fly out of Zurich, so they have to at least stay 1 night there before thir flight. The rest of the time I'd say a daytrip to Lake Constance, and perhaps a daytrip to Stein am Rhein.

The Swiss SaverPass fare I find is here:
http://traintickets.myswitzerland.com/us/rail/passes/swiss_saverpass.htm

RickSteves' website also provides the same price.

P.S. The SaverPass is 10% cheaper than the regular Swiss Pass.

Hi yk,

How great of you to help them plan this nice trip. I'm sure they'll have a great time and will be really happy with your help!

Anyway, I wouldn't stay in Interlaken, particularly in July/August time frame. It's still so far from the mountain peaks and the mountain villages -- and at that time of the summer, it will be literally swamped with tourists and tourist busses. Why not stay nearby, someplace with a little charm? Lots of folks like Lauterbrunnen, which would be very convenient for them yet relatively peaceful. Or maybe even Thun (would be farther for the Jungfraujoch excursion but perfect for trips on the lake).

I prefer Montreux to Lausanne, but then for me, the smaller the town, the better. Here are links to my "reviews" (w/photos) of my favorite activities around the lake:

Montreux old town
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g188108-d546444-r4080258-Montreux_Old_town-Montreux_Vaud.html

Lavaux
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g188108-d548013-r4089520-Corniche_Lavaux-Montreux_Vaud.html

Promenade Fleuri
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g188108-d546443-r4085751-Lakeside_Promenade_Fleuri-Montreux_Vaud.html

Morges
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g198828-r4080228-Morges_Vaud.html

Gruyeres
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g198820-r4082503-Gruyeres_Fribourg.html

Saanen
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g188079-r4085665-Gstaad_Bernese_Oberland_Swiss_Alps.html

Gstaad
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g188079-r4082703-Gstaad_Bernese_Oberland_Swiss_Alps.html

You probably know that Gstaad, Saanen, & Gruyeres are on the way between Montreux & Zweisimmen on the Golden Pass route. They may want to stop, hop off the train, put the bags in lockers, and stroll around and have a bite at one of those places.

Good luck!

s

ps, there are lots of (scenic) alternatives to St Moritz. Here are a few: Sils, Pontresina, Scuol, Guarda . . . You can see them at

www.engadin.stmoritz.ch

or

www.scuol.ch

s

Thank you yk for answering my question about the Swiss Pass. I hadn't taken the 10% discount into account. I won't be able to use the Saver Pass since I'm travelling solo.

No need to include Zermatt since your parents have seen the Matterhorn.

I guess the Chur and St Moritz topic needs to be debated. Of the two St Moritz is more scenic. St Moritz is a glitzy resort, with prices to match. Other than the lake shore there is hardly a level street. Climbing up and down streets to get to their hotel, restaurants, shops, etc may not be a good choice for you parents. In Chur your parents can wander around the old town as they'd have enough time to do this on the day they arrive on the Glacier Express. I feel that walking around Chur is easier because of the terrain. The ABC Hotel in Chur is very close to the train station.

I will be in Switzerland next month and I'll be taking the Glacier Express and Bernina Express, I will buy my rail pass when I arrive. I had contacted Ratische Bahn via their website (www.rhb.ch) to make my Glacier Express and Bernina Express reservations. I'd do this once you know your parents travel dates, they'll send you an email with a confirmation number, your parents can pick up their tickets once they arrive in Switzerland. The prices I quoted, CHF 30 and CHF 9 were for reservations from Zermatt to Chur and Chur to Tirano. I'm not sure if the price will be different for your parents since they'll be travelling from Visp and to Lugano.

Hi retired, are you staying overnight in Chur then?

I agree with you about St Moritz (with my limited, overnight experience).

Is it necessary to book the GE and BE reservation so far in advance? I was planning to have them make the reservations after they arrive in Switzerland. Based on my tentative itinerary, they will be there 1 week before they take the GE. When I went in 2003, I also booked my train reservations after I got to Switzerland, but that was in late May, shoulder season.

Also, are you reserving for the regular train or the scenic/paronamic cars? When I took GE/BE on my trip, I just sat in the regular cars.

swandav - thank you for all your information and links. I will have to go through them one by one and see which places they may like. I hadn't thought about getting off mid-way along GoldenPass route and walk around one of the towns... that's a great idea!

yk, yes, I'll be staying in Chur, I travel Zermatt to Chur and then Chur to Tirano the following day.

Sorry, I really cannot tell you if it's necessary to book train reservations this far in advance, your parents are travelling during peak season so I'd definitely make reservations from home. There is no extra charge for this, if you book directly with RHB. The reason I recommend this is because their travel dates won't be flexible and the Bernina Express is often booked with tour groups, also, not sure of your parents seating preference, but good seats/window seats will be the first to go.

The GE and BE are tourist trains, that have scenic/panoramic cars, the regular SBB trains do not. This is why I had to pay a surcharge for these trains. Your parents will be travelling in summer, in summer the regular SBB trains from Chur to Tirano that run on the BE route have open air carriages too. However, when travelling on regular trains you parents would have to make one or two transfers, check the sbb website (www.sbb.ch) for details about regular service from Visp to Chur/St Moritz and Chur/St Moritz to Tirano. When I read your post I understood that your parents were travelling on the tourist trains (the GE and BE) and not on the GE and BE route on regular trains. If it's the later, there's no need to make reservations.

wandav makes a good point suggesting that your parents explore places enroute. Just to let you know, if your parents want to they can have their luggage forwarded to their destination by SBB. The cost for this service is CHF 20 for same day delieverly and CHF 10 for next day deliverly. This maybe a better option instead of loading/unloading their luggage onto trains and moving their luggage to/from the left luggage office.

YK while your parents are in Zurich they might enjoy the trip by boat from Rapperswil at the other end of Lake Zurich, they could go by train to Rapperswil and lunch there plenty of resaurants around the lakeside and take the boat back.

Thank you again, retired. When I went in May 2003, I traveled on the GE & BE (the direct, tourist trains) but I sat in a regular car, not the glass-ceiling paranomic cars. I also had to pay for a seat reservation. I need to go back to the SBB and other websites to figure out paranomic vs regular cars on the scenic trains. Perhaps they don't offer the paranomic cars except peak summer season. Thanks for the tip about making reservation at Ratische Bahn via their website (www.rhb.ch).

As much as I love the Swiss Rail system in general, I however find the various scenic train websites/routes/timetables cumbersome to peruse.

My parents are on a trip to Asia right now and won't be back until mid-May, so I won't be able to do anything more until then.

My parents travel very light (1 small rolling backpack each), so they won't have any trouble carrying it with them. But I'll let them know about the luggage-forwarding service.

I would definitely not stay in Chur instead of St. Moritz. As swandav suggested, there are other small towns/villages in the area with lots of charm where your parents could stay. Pontresina and Samedan are both on the Glacier/Bernina Express rail route. Another aspect to consider is that July and August can be hot - and the days in the mountains will be much more pleasant than in the valleys. Which is another reason IMO to stay in Wengen or Mürren instead of Interlaken, in Pontresina instead of Chur, and to deduct a day from Lugano and add it to Pontresina (St. Moritz area).

Three nights in Zürich are ok IMO. Day trips to Stein am Rhein, Schaffhausen, Einsiedeln, St. Gallen or Rapperswil are highly recommended.

I'd stay in Montreux or Vevey, not in Lausanne. Much more charming IMO.

I.

From Interlaken they can visit Ballenberg (open air swiss museum) if interested.>

Swiss Passes on 100% covered days include free admission to this and over 400 other Swiss Museums - a $20 value here about.

Swiss Passes are sold in Switzerland but currently are cheaper for the same pass bought in the States thru RailEurope or their agents - prices are always the same but look for free mailing - some charge $18 (RE i think does on orders below $450 - not sure exact amount).

Great resources: www.swisstravelsystem.com; www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com and http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id3.html

BTW yk I think the itinerary you have come up with is superb. One thing you may not consider is that from Interlaken they can train to Meiringen and then take the Susten Pass Bus to Goschenen and then take the shuttle train up to Andermatt, where they can also join the Glacier Express train - i've taken this bus and it provides a much different view of the Alps than trains that generally burrow under them.

And if going to Visp from Spiez as of last year it is practically all in the new Lotschberg Tunnel - no views at all - they could take the classic old line that is incredibly scenic IMO but it would take at least an hour longer on a long day already - the bus route may provide variety and could be shorter (not sure)

Anyway you have a swell itinerary for them, given their peripathetic traveling style

tipsygus, Ingo & PalQ-
Thanks for all your input.

To get from Visp from Interlaken does require a change in Spiez - now I see why the trip is so quick (less than 30 mins between Spiez and Visp).

I know most people here don't like Interlaken, so I'll try to persuade my parents to stay higher up in the mountains. Thanks again.... lots for me to research and tweak my itinerary suggestion before they return from their current trip.

yk, when I booked with RHB I was given a choice of first class or second class.

When planning my trip I did a search here and found lots of information. Take a look at this thread, it's definitely the Swiss Trains superthread:-

www.fodors.com/community/europe/palenques-scenic-swiss-trains.cfm

Also take a look at this:-

www.ricksteves.com/plan/destinations/switz/swissrailjourn.htm

Hope this helps.

yk, I hope when this itinerary evolves from preliminary to final that you'll post a day-by-day schedule. I think this is going to be a great trip, and the final itinerary would be very helpful for anyone planning to tour Switzerland by train.

- Fly into Geneva and go directly to either Lausanne or Montreux. Stay in either Lausanne or Montreux for 3 nights. (which one is "better"?)

**** I stayed in Vevey. You can walk from Montreux to Vevey, mostly on a beautiful walking path along the lake. I have not visited Lausanne.

- Interlaken to Visp, then pick up Glacier Express to St Moritz. Stay in St Moritz for 1 night.

St. Moritz has the name but I think there are prettier places close by. Pontresina is very nice! Will they be doing any walking ("hiking")? There are flat walks to be had as well.

Ingo, nice to see you!

ps. HIGHLY recommend a night in Guarda versus St. Moritz. It's a tiny, tiny little village. Mom and I stayed there on our drive from the Dolomites to Lake Como. I'd pick that as number one for that night. Is it really just an overnight? You can also walk from there to other little towns on the same elevation. Serene, peaceful, beautiful.

Here are some photos from our overnight (and a few along the road the next day). More than half are in Guarda, some are in Zuoz, some in Soglio. A few were taken at Samedan, Europe's highest airport.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/skywalkerbeth/sets/72157606740788912/show/

I've strolled around St Moritz on several occasions and though, like any Swiss resort on a lake, it's swell i never cared to linger any more than an hour or so. To me rather blah - now i know it's a great base for hikes, the Bernina pass train or car route, etc.

But as a town leaves me rather blah. Just my opinion and different things turns different folks on i guess.

Yes indeedy, nice to hear from Ingo.

A few thoughts:

The Wilhem Tell Express: a wonderful marketing gimmick for tourists. I go down to Tessin quite often from Goldau and just jump on the train that best fits my schedule. I hadn't realized there was a name for this line until I began visiting this board.

- I have stayed in Lausanne down by the lake. It was actually quite nice. The city is basically just a city but the lakefront does have something to offer. However, it's quite a stroll from the train station down to the lakefront.

- check out myswitzerland.ch for any local festivals. They truly are worth seeing.

- Great job with the itinerary and lots of good advice. It's an informative thread for anyone coming to Switzerland.

Thanks, and nice to hear from you too, skygirl and Palenque!

Thank you Ingo, schuler and flygirl! I will mull over all your suggestions in the next few weeks and I'm sure I'll be back with more questions!

Here's a vote for Interlaken - Because it's so central you can get to all the mountain trips easily from there. If staying in Lauterbrunnen, etc ., it may take more time to get to other Oberland destinations. However, the Lauterbrunn valley is gorgeous. BUT, you can easily get there from Interlaken.

bookmarking

I also like Interlaken a lot and feel it is a very underestimated city - most folks never get off the main and very beaten path to see the old town on the north side of the river where there is a town square as nice as any in Switzerland and Lucerne-type wooden bridge and sluices with a roaring river.

that said for first-timers i would advise staying in the hills - in a place like Grindelald or Wengen - Grindelwald and Lauterbrunnen are each only about 20 mins from the Interlaken-Ost train station, jumping off point for many excursions like lake boats and trains to Lucerne, etc.

Interlaken is neat but its hotel balconies for the most part don't offer the intoxicating views as those in Grindelwald and Wengen do IMO.

If 30 and under go for Lauterbrunnen or Grindelwald - lots of younger folk in these two places and even spots to go at night

if over 35 go for Wengen - quiet and solitude and can quickly get down to Lauterbrunnen or Interlaken for more action if so need.

yk, not sure if you will check this thread, I hope you do. I returned from Switzerland recently.

Here are two bits of information that I hope are helpful to you.

On the Bernina Express it is best to sit on the right side of the train the views are excellent I enjoyed the train ride, it was one of the highlights of the trip. The day I took the train it was about 90% full.

When your parents are in the Bernese Oberland area, I'd recommend a visit Trummbelbach falls.

retiredinflorida, thanks for your tips. My parents' trip is put on hold right now, as I haven't received the "go-ahead and book" from them yet. Once they're 100% sure they will go, I'm sure I'll be back with more Qs and hopefully you can answer some of them.

You're very welcome. I'm certainly happy to help answer any queries you may have in the future.

On the Bernina Express it is best to sit on the right side of the train the views are excellent I enjoyed the train ride, it was one of the highlights of the trip. The day I took the train it was about 90% full.>

there are the official Bernina Express - a tourist train with i think commentary, not sure - but it's the world's slowest express train and called express because it don't stop as much as the local trains that go over the same route hourly or so. You must reserve the Bernina Express before boarding and reservations can be hard to make at times - but the local trains are always an alternative - and in summer some of these trains have open-air cars - basically platforms so the views are practically 360 degrees and it don't matter which side you sit on in that case.

bookmarking

Hi YK, just returned from Switzerland and just started a trip report. Here are some random thoughts

Fodorites sent us to Hotel Masson in Montreux and we really liked it. We were lazy and decided to eat there, maybe there has been a change of Chef as we had a really nice dinner. Castle Chillon a short walk and truly amazing. We did not go to old town Montreux or anywhere else, but we really enjoyed Masson and Chillon. Short taxi from train station to Masson.

An area we really enjoyed our first tip to Switzerland was BO. Stayed in Grindelwald. They can take trains, gondolas, busses to almost anywhere from there. Jungfrau, Schilthorn, Murren, Wengen, Gimmelwald, no strenous hiking to these areas.

We did the bus from the Bernina Express to Lugano. We were not impressed. Lugano seemed to be just a city by a beautiful lake. Would not go back, would not recommend to a friend. I cannot imagine what you would do there for 3 nights.

Engadine area as per Ingo and others far more highly recommended. Or they could take the bus from St Moritz area over the Majola pass to Soglio, a truly memorable village to walk around.

Previous trip we liked St Gallen, Apenzell. Weggis on Lake Lucerne was wonderful, went up Mt Rigi, boat trip to Lucerne, I could stay there for 3 days and a short trip back to Zurich.

wrenwood: When you say "not impressed" do you mean just Lugano specifically or the whole Bernina Express train experience?

I am planning a trip to Switzerland next year and was planning to take the Bernina Express b/c so many people rave about how scenic it is. I was thinking we would try to stay in the Lake Como area rather than Lugano, but I thought that whole lake area was supposed be pretty. Is it just Lugano that you found boring, or did you also visit the towns on Lake Como?

wrenwood certainly didn't refer to the Bernina Express train as 'not impressed'. I've ridden that train a dozen times. It is spectacular. I've never taken the bus from Tirano to Lugano, though. As far as I heard it can be a somewhat boring ride - the Valtellina valley between Tirano and Lake Como is not too exciting - but then it gets more scenic along Lake Como and towards Lugano (from Menaggio on).

I agree that Lugano itself can appear as just another busy and noisy city. However, the setting is beautiful, the so called 'suburbs' like Castagnola are very nice, the old town is a large pedestrian zone with some sights, the parks are beautiful, the surroundings are amazing (Gandria, Monte Bre, Monte San Salvatore, Carona, Morcote etc.). So, if you're concerned about Lugano being not pretty then stay outside. And boring? Nah, come on! No way!

Oh sorry, Bernina Express is awesome. I would do that again anytime. And Tirano is fun to walk around. We had a surprisingly good lunch at one of the restaurants right outside the train station. We tried Pizzoccheri and it was wonderful. Had a glass of white wine from one of the local vineyards. And gelato, must have gelato in Tirano!

We did a round trip on the Bernina Express the first time we took it, and it's such a short ride (compared to the GE) it's not boring.

I got a lot of help on my most recent thread, maybe you can find something there to help you out.

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/please-help-with-2nd-switzerland-trip-murrren-soglio-and.cfm

What we did not enjoy was the "Bernina Bus" from Tirano to Lugano. For some reason just didn't think it was as scenic as we thought it would be. And to be fair, we didn't walk around Lugano. It was much larger than I thought it would be, we were glad we weren't staying there. We like smaller towns/villages.

http://www.geocities.com/postfach1/pictures/lugano_view1.jpg

We have not been to the Lakes area, but we may go there next year combined with a trip somewhere else in Italy. My sister-in-law really wants to go to Italy, so I will be looking for someplace smaller than Lugano!

As I mentioned we did love Weggis, and the boat trip on the lake to Lucerne was lovely, and walking around Lucerne was fun. A lot of options.

What about Stein am Rhein? Would that interest them? That is another place we want to go back to. But next time I will read up on the history ahead of time!

When you say they are not into mountain hiking, is that because of their age/fitness? We thought the BO was unlike any place we have ever stayed in regard to being up in the mountain villages with no effort. Cable cars and gondolas and cog trains take you everywhere and you just walk around, you don't have to hike if you don't want to! Gimmelwald and Murren were really memorable.

Anyway, good luck! We just came back and I could leave again tomorrow for Switzerland!

Hey Ingo, looks like we were posting at the same time!

cheryllj ~ blame Ingo ( and some others) to my reaction to Lugano. I would have preferred to have been in Guarda!

Ingo, I am so glad to hear that you like the Lugano area. I am planning 2 nights there as it breaks up our journey from the Engadine into Tuscany so nicely. And I found a great little place to stay, right on the water in Castagnola. Or we might try Haus Moosmann in Gandria.

I don't think we'll see much of the "city" at all, although I would like to visit the modern art museum and the Villa Favorita.

Ok Enzian, let me know about these places in case we go to Soglio again before meeting my sister-in-law in Italy next year!

Thanks for the clarification.

So a big thumbs-up to the Bernina Express train, but you don't recommend staying in Lugano because it was too big and busy for your taste. I was thinking of staying in Bellagio or Varenna, if I could manage to make my way over there after getting off the bus in Lugano.

Yes, but that's my taste, maybe your parents like big and busy. And Enzian and Ingo certainly know more about the area then I do.

Where we stayed east of Lugano was a beautiful spot on the lake, but at night Lugano just lit up the whole end of the at lake. It was just much larger than I had thought it would be.

There are a lot of threads just on the Lakes region if you do a search.

Don't know how far it is from Lugano to Bellagio or Varenna, the bus trip from Tirano was about 4 hrs. Traffic was awful once we got to the Lake, the bus had to stop probably 2 dozen times to get traffic coming from the other direction to stop so he could negotiate a corner or some impossibly narrow section of the road. He got a huge round of appalause when we arrived!

cheryllj---If you want to head to Varenna from the Bernine Express, it is very easy, and you get to skip both Lugano and the boring bus ride. Just take the train directly to Varenna from Tirano---the end of the train part of the Bernina Express.

You'll be there in 1 hour 26 minutes from Tirano.

Hi enzian and wrenwood! Glad to see y'all posting.

Enzian, good choice for hotel. The views from Castagnola are very beautiful with Monte San Salvatore in the distance. And it is quiet there.

Wrenwood, must check out your trip report. Hurry with posting, I am starving

Ingo---that is great to know! If it's not too hot we'll hike up Monte Bre. And if it's hot, we'll just go for a swim in the lake.

I hope cheryllj sees this so she knows not to get on the bus to Lugano if she really wants to end up in Varenna!

Thanks for the tip re: getting to Varenna!

If the bus trip is that boring, then I don't see any reason to go to Lugano if we end up choosing to stay in Lake Como.

cheryllj we were told it was "scenic" we did not think so, don't know if anyone else thought it was scenic. It is one of the few things we've done on our 2 Switzerland trips that we would not do again or recommend to friends.

is your itinerary coming together?