CGS

I'm leaving next month for a two week trip through Portugal and southern Spain. Going with DH and two DDs - 16 and 18. Have been researching like mad with Rick Steves, Lonely Planet and Fodors, reading trip reports and scrolling through threads here, and reading reviews on TripAdvisor. Have gotten some great ideas and advice here on this site, as always! I'd love feedback and comments on "don't miss" sights and restaurants, and I have a few specific questions on areas of the itinerary that I'm still working on. Accommodations are already booked for all but a few nights.

Day 1 - land in Lisbon, get car and head out for Evora. See Evora as well as we can with jet lag. Any suggestions of where to eat? It will be a Sunday - many restaurants are closed.

Day 2 - guided morning tour of megaliths around Evora. Leave afternoon and drive to Cordoba for one night and one day. Considering flamenco at Arte y Sabores de Cordoba due to rave reviews on TripAdvisor and positive comments here from kimhe, who clearly knows a lot about this subject. Show starts at 10, with an option for dinner at 9. I imagine the food won't compare to restaurants I've seen recommended, but will we be able to eat out somewhere else and still make a 10 pm show, or should we just give in and eat at the flamenco place?

Day 3 - see Cordoba: Mezquita, Roman Bridge, Jewish Quarter, Alcazar. A lot for one day. Depart afternoon for Granada, where we will spend the night (and the next 2).

Day 4: Alhambra tickets (already purchased - thanks Fodorites for that heads up!), morning entry, and booked a private tour with Juan based on recommendations on this forum, I think by ekscrunchy. After Alhambra, wander around the Albayzin. Sleep in Granada.

Day 5: Day trip to the Alpujarras. Has anyone been? Recommendations for lunch and hiking? Back to Granada for the night.

Day 6: Depart early for Ronda. Here I really need some help. Original plan was to high-tail it straight to Ronda, spend the rest of the day and night there. Then the next day drive around the other hill towns and head up to Seville. Then I read about Antequera (on the way), about the megalithic tombs just outside the city, about El Toreal Nature Reserve just to the south, and about Laguna de Fuente de Piedra (flamingo breeding grounds!) just to the north. We love hiking, natural attractions and wildlife - we could spend the whole day in that area! If we do, we will get to Ronda in the evening, see Ronda the next day, and will have to cut short our tour of the other hill towns. See Day 7.

Day 7: Depending on how we spend Day 6, we will either spend the morning in Ronda and then head out for Grazalema and Zahara, eventually getting to Seville that night, or, if we've skipped or cut short the Antequera area and seen Ronda on Day 6, we could possible see the Pileta Cave this day, in addition to Grazalema and Zahara. And what about Arcos? Will we be disappointed to miss that, or will we have seen enough hill towns by that point? Would love to hear people's advice on this part of the itinerary. In either event, sleep in Seville.

Days 8 and 9: Seville. Alcazar, Barrio Santa Cruz, Cathedral, Church of the Savior, Maria Luisa Park, Plaza de Espanol. We will be there on June 15 and learned on this forum that there's a great program at Casa de la Memoria that night, so hoping for more flamenco.

Day 10: Leave early for the Algarve. Possibly stop at Roman ruins (Italica, I think) on the way. Don't miss or worth it?

Days 10-12: Algarve. Leaving this a bit open as I think we will need a break from all the running around. We can have some beach time or continue sightseeing in this region.

Day 13: Leave early for Lisbon. Spend the afternoon in Lisbon. Sleep in Lisbon for the rest of the trip.

Days 14 and 15: Lisbon and Sintra. Again, a Sunday night in Portugal. Many Lisbon restaurants are closed. Would love suggestions.

Day 16: Depart Lisbon for home.

Would love comments, suggestions, restaurant recommendations! My apologies for such a long post!

thursdaysd

Are you not doing the night tour of the Alhambra???

This restaurant in Lisbon isn't fancy, but has the best chicken: http://www.golisbon.com/food/restaurants/Bonjardim.html

Also, if you have the slightest interest in port, don't miss the Solar do Vinho do Porto, also in Lisbon.

CGS

Thanks thursdaysd. Night tours are all sold out! I meant to ask if anyone knows whether they sell night tickets on the day of, the way they do with day tickets. Anyone?

Thanks for the Lisbon recommendation - I had seen that place recommended - definitely on the list!

Did you enjoy the Solar do Vinho do Porto? Very mixed reviews on TripAdvisor - many people said there was very little information provided and the servers are grumpy. Was your experience better?

thursdaysd

I am a big fan of port, so perhaps my need for information was less, but I thought there was plenty. Provided you read the literature provided.... I didn't find the servers grumpy, but I am one, quiet, traveler, I imagine noisy groups would be frowned on. The ambience is more library than pub.

I loved the Solar, and have been back more than once. The prices were very reasonable, and there was an excellent range of choices. It would be hard to imagine anywhere else where you could sample so many different ports at such competitive prices. And if there are two of you, you can sample more at one time.

Bummer about the night tickets, it is a magical experience.

kimhe

A couple of comments:

Before the flamenco at Arte y Sabores, you could for example have dinner in typical and affordable Taberna Salinas from 1879. Opens at 8pm, serves excellent Córdoba specialities, and comes recommended in the Michelin guide. I had a perfectly fine meal here a couple of years ago. Some ten minutes walking from Arte y Sabores. http://www.tabernasalinas.com/

From what you write, I think you will love El Torcal and the Antequera area. Here you should also be aware of the Peña de los enamorados (Lover's rock) just outside town: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pe%C3%B...los_Enamorados

Only top artists at Casa de la Memória in Sevilla, but the program for June is not set yet as far as I know. http://www.casadelamemoria.es/agenda/

I would definitely recommend a visit to Itálica just outside Sevilla. Italica’s amphitheater seated 25,000 spectators, the third largest in the Roman empire, and it's very much intact. Roman emperors Trajan - allegedly the best of them all - and Hadrian were born here.

progol

I imagine you and your family are experienced travelers, but I was also wondering about the pace of the first few days of your trip. I like to move around, too, so I understand that desire to see as much as possible, but if it were me, I'd be wiped out by Day 2. A lot of driving in the first few days and not much downtime until the latter part of your trip.

If it were me (and I know we all are different in our travel styles), I'd probably place Cordoba after Granada, and take an extra day to get to Granada (since you're already committed to the city because of your tickets).

The same is true for trying to see too many White towns! I'm currently planning a trip to Andalucia, so can't advise on which ones are "not to be missed", but I think that sometimes, less is more. It's not necessary to see every one -- just a few to get a feeling. I say this for myself, too, as it's easy to get caught up in the whirl of travel planning and read about every other person's favorite town!

I do love some of your ideas for the natural attractions and other off-the-beaten track places. I think that including a day of hiking or walking will be wonderful.

And I do look forward to reading your trip report, as I'll be using it when I fine tune my own plans for next year!

tedgale

Click on my name for my Portugal trip report, with restaurant suggestions in Lisbon and a discussion of Evora.

My preferred restaurant in Evora was Dom Joaquim:

http://www.tripadvisor.ca/Restaurant..._Alentejo.html

CGS

Thanks everyone!

OK, thursdaysd, port tasting is on the itinerary for Lisbon! I really enjoy port but know next to nothing bout it - my father-in-law has a number of nicely aged bottles and he just shows up with them on holidays and I happily drink it, but am very uninformed about what I'm drinking, so I'm glad to hear there is information available.

kimhe, thanks for that information - that's exactly the kind of thing I wanted to know about the dinner/flamenco in Cordoba and also about the Antequera region and Italica. You're right that the schedule for flamenco is not set yet in Seville for June - don't know what it was I thought I saw. Maybe an old post for a different date? Anyway, I'll keep checking.

progol, I'm a bit worried about the pace too. DH is someone who can't sit still, and usually adrenaline carries us all through the early part of any vacation and we don't really relax until several days in, but I'm worried about all the driving, jet lag, etc. With three drivers (one DD drives) we can take turns, but also, if necessary, we can skip the Alpujarras. I'd be disappointed, but it gives us an escape hatch if we just need a down day. I agree about "too many white towns" - trying to find the right balance.

Any thoughts about Pileta Cave? Don't miss or just OK?

Keep the comments coming!

CGS

tedgale, just saw your reply. Thanks - I'll definitely check out your trip report! Unfortunately I think Dom Joaquim may be closed for dinner on Sunday. Maybe we should go for a big lunch and then have a light dinner and go to bed, since it's our first day?

thursdaysd

Talking about TRs, you might find this useful:

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...ing-lisbon.cfm

kimhe

A video intro to the spectacular Torcal limestone rock formations. You can drive up almost to the top, and several walking routes up here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWrrOMTfJeM

"some of the most beautiful and impressive limestone landscapes in Europe": http://www.andalucia.com/antequera/torcal/home.htm

And some info about wonderful Antequera, the so called crossroads of Andalucía: http://www.andaluciacoastandcountry....era-spain.html
http://www.andalucia.com/antequera/home.htm
http://www.andaluciacoastandcountry.com/tapaspain.html

And when in the area, perhaps walk the Camino del Rey ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmDhRvvs5Xw

tedgale

I looked at the other addresses that were recommended by the very high-end place where we stayed, just outside Evora.

Most places are closed all day Snuday. D Joaquim is open for lunch only.

Two places that ARE open in the evening:

Degust'AR -- Inside the very fancy Hotel M'AR de Ar Aqueduct. Looks pricey.

O Fialho -- described as a temple of Portuguese cuisine. Also pricey.

They also mentioned:

Pateo Wine Bar and Heritage Shop -- Open until 2 AM.

For the widest array of listings, I suggest you go on www.lifecooler.com. Select: Alentejo-Evora and you will get 100+ restaurant listings for the region. Evora restaurants are a subset within that list.

thursdaysd

The restaurant in the pousada looks to be open too:

http://www.pousadas.pt/historic-hote...estaurant.aspx

CGS

Thanks again everyone, and thanks for the links to the trip reports tedgale and thursdaysd. kimhe, you're making our day near Antequera even harder to cut short!

Still would love advice on:

Pileta Cave - don't miss or meh?
Which white towns you loved
Anyone who has been to the Alpujarras
Restaurants in Ronda and the Algarve especially (don't have many for those spots)- and any restaurants in any of our spots that you absolutely loved! (or hated!)

MyriamC

<<Restaurants in Ronda and the Algarve especially>>
Where in the Algarve will you be staying? The Algarve from east to west is a stretch of 170 km. Beaches and beach towns are very different on both ends. Lagos, Albufeira, and the towns in between are very crowded in the summer with lots of Brits and loud bars, lots of nightlife. Very nice golden beaches with stunning rock formations.
We always reside in Tavira, east of Faro. Much quieter, much more authentic IMO. Beaches here are long stretched 'Ilhas' (islands) before the coast, in the nature reserve Ria Formosa, and are of the finest white sand. You can get there by little boats or water taxis, in other places (Barril) by little train, in other places (Manta Rota), over a bridge. A very different type of beachlife than in the western Algarve. No nightlife to speak of but a lot of wonderful little restaurants. On Ilha de Armona you can even rent a bungalow and stay on the 'island'. Might be a bit boring for your DDs though.

<<Which white towns you loved>>
If you have enough time, you could drive the tour "Ruta de los Pueblos Blancos". If I recall well, it starts in Arcos de la Frontera (not to miss), but of course you can start in whichever village you want. You don't have to visit all of them but do not miss Grazalema, Zahara de la Sierra, Algodonales, El Bosque.
My top favourite white town however, will always remain Frigiliana which is a little east of Málaga (in the hills above Nerja).

<<Where to eat in Evora>>
We had an excellent dinner at BL Lounge. Not your typical Portuguese cuisine but really fine dining and the owner knows a lot of the local wines. He does a real good food/wine pairing! If you don't have a place to sleep yet, I can heartily recommend Albergaria do Calvário. I have never encountered such hospitability in a hotel. It is within the city walls and has an underground parking (the staff will gladly park your car for you).

We hope to leave for Andalucía next week ourselves but my DH has back problems and if he ain't better by Friday we will have to cancel. Thumbs up, everyone, please! ;-)

CGS

Thanks MyriamC! We are planning to stay in Carvoeiro in the Algarve. The more crowded end, but I think we'll be there before the large crowds - mid June. We'll have a car so not restricted to that town, although Tavira may be a bit far to go for dinner. Any restaurant recommendations down our end?

In Evora, we are staying at Albergaria do Calvario! Very excited! Seems like a wonderful place. Looks like BL Lounge is closed on Sundays, sadly.

Thanks for the white towns recommendations. I'm afraid we won't have time to do all of those. Trying to decide what to prioritize! What was it about Frigiliana that made it your favorite? It's a bit off our path, but we could go that way with a little extra driving. And have you been to Pileta Cave?

I hope your DH's back is better and you can go on your trip!

yestravel

We just ate at the Evora Pousada a couple nights ago and it was a good meal. We had a great meal at Tasquinha D'Oliveira. Small restaurant and don't know if it's open on Sundays.

MyriamC

A very good Italian restaurant in Carvoeiro is Villa Medici. It looks very posh but it isn't 'stiff' at all.

We also had Sunday lunch at São Gabriel in Valle de Lobo/Almancil. It's a Michelin star restaurant but their Sunday lunches are very affordable ... and delicious! It's a 50 km drive but well worth the effort.

A bit further away, in the hills of Moncarapacho, is the Vila Monte Resort. Their restaurant Orangerie is wonderful, especially the terrace with great views on the ocean.

As you see, we don't mind a bit of driving for excellent food. ;-)

MyriamC

Frigiliana ... it was our first trip to southern Spain and the first time I saw a white town. Maybe that was the magic. This is at least 25 years ago but we plan on going back next week on our way from Málaga to Granada. At least, I hope we will be able to go.

progol

CGS- Your mention of the Pileta Cave intrigued me and I did a brief search on this site to see if others have mentioned it. As we had gone to visit a few of the caves in the Dordogne, reading about Pileta Cave grabbed my interest.

It sounds like a very worthwhile visit - not overly developed and relatively unvisited - but those who've gone have said that it was really worth seeing. Here are 2 reports that comment on the cave. I've added it to my own list for next year.

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...and-madrid.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...m#last-comment