wouldbetraveller

I was thinking of going with point-to-point tickets but then I used railsaver to calculate costs for us, and it's telling me that it'll probably be affordable and convenient with 3-country 5 day saver pass.

Can someone pls. tell me what they think? I'm assuming railsaver doesn't take into account reservation costs.

I've read in this forum that Italy's pretty inexpensive for trains and therefore rail passes for the most part isn't needed.

Here's what we plan to do.

Staying in Florence. We need to go to Rome but returning the same day back to Florence.

From Florence we plan to take an overnighter to Paris. Will stay for a few nights.

From Paris we have to get to Amsterdam. Is a stopover in Bruges feasible? Not planning to stay overnight, just a few hours. Is Bruges worth a short stopover or should we just take a train direct from Paris to Amsterdam?

I've tried getting prices on Trenitalia and the SNCF train sites. If I did it right, point-to-point with 1st class seats in Italy and 2nd class everywhere else (reservations included) comes to roughly the same price as the saver pass minus the seat reservations for the pass.

Is this right?

wouldbetraveller

Also...

I went to the French rail site to get prices for overnighter from Florence to Paris...I chose 1st and 2nd class to see a difference.

First class offers couchettes. I checked for three people, while second class had three-beds version.

Is the first class couchette more comfortable than the 2nd class three-bed cabin? And how many couchettes are there in the first class version?

Andre

Wouldbetraveller,

The Thalys fast trains between Paris and Amsterdam are NOT included in any pass, although they offer reduced "passholder" fares.

That said, you can avoid Thalys trains by taking a TGV to Lille, then normal trains from there.

I suppose you could spend some time in Bruges en route - check out schedules at:
www.rail.ch
which has the most user-friendly interface IMO.

Hope this helps,
Andre

wouldbetraveller

Thanks Andre. No I didn't realize the Thalys trains weren't included in the pass. If we didn't stop in Bruges, I was hoping to catch a direct train from Paris to Amsterdam.

ira

Hi would,

I believe that you will also have to pay a supplement for a TGV train as well.

I went through your itinerary. Yes, the Railpass will save you a few dollars if you don't go on the THALYS, TGV or ES* trains.

However, for your Florence/Paris trip you can get 1 cl seats for less than the price of 2 cl on the Artesia.

GeoffHamer

The night train from Firenze ("Florence&quot to Paris is run by Artesia who run the other night trains from Italy to Paris. There are various fares depending on the type of accommodation, but sleeping cars are not first or second class. The trains have six- and four-berth couchettes, three- and two-berth sleeping compartments, and "Excelsior" sleeping compartments with bathrooms. It's like staying in a hotel in that you get what you pay for. There is a significant discount if you have a rail pass.

Kristinelaine

It is just my personal opinion that the "convenience" of having the railpass is greatly reduced if you're going on alot of trains that require reservations. Since you have to go to the trouble to get the reservations, you might as well be buying the point-to-point ticket as well. ONLY if the cost of the railpass is significantly less than the P-P tickets do I go with the railpass. Hope this is clear.

Once I had bought the French railpass (which was a really good deal, we were only traveling in France), but then I found out that they have only a limited number of TGV seats on each train available to passholders. That was a problem!

Kristinelaine

I should have said that my experience with the French railpass was a couple of years ago and I suppose it is possible that this situation has changed.

Patrick

Andre, regarding no passes including the Thalys trains, when did that start? I did it on both a multi country pass and on a Benelux pass.

ira

Hi Patrick,

You rode on the THALYS without a supplement?

metlc

wouldbe,

Whatever you do, avoid the 2nd-Class couchettes (six berths). Unless you enjoy mausoleums.

wouldbetraveller

I'm still a bit confused. Sorry.

Here's what I'm told.

The saverpass will cost us $417 Cdn.

In order for us to get a cabin for 3 adults, we have to pay another $97 Cdn. on top of that.

Our Florence to Rome return with the pass will cost us about $40/person for reservations.

If we go directly Paris to Amsterdam - no stop in Bruges - the supplement is another $18 Cdn a person.

By my math, that's about $577 each person total.

When I do the math point to point - again without stopping in Bruges -
Florence to Rome return is 108 Cdn plus 44 for reservations for 2nd class on ES. (We prefer taking ES since it's only 1 1/2 hours each way)

Florence to Paris for 3-berth overnight is $240 Cdn.

Paris to Amsterdam on Thalys direct is $157 Cdn 2nd class (including reservations).

Total 549 per person.

Am I missing something or am I just going crazy?

Would we miss a lot by not stopping in Bruges? We're only in Amsterdam for 3 nights. And it looks like if we stop in Bruges for a couple of hours, with travel time, that'll eat up at least 7 hours of the day.

Thanks.

ira

Hi would,

>Florence to Rome return is 108 Cdn plus 44 for reservations for 2nd class on ES.<

From whom are you buying your tickets?

If you buy the tickets from www.trenitalia.com/en or get them in Italy you do not pay extra for the reservation. It is 30E (47 CD) each way in 2 cl.

Christina

I used a France Railpass on TGVs several times and never paid a "supplement" for using them. I did pay a few euro (then in francs, about USD5) for a seat reservation, but no supplement. Rules for a Eurailpass might be different than a France railpass in that regard, however.

I wouldn't have bought the pass if it didn't save me money, although I think it is kind of convenient to not have to buy tickets for nonTGV routes, just hop on.

PalQ

Railpasses cover the whole train fare on TGVs- no supplements charged though you must pay a 3 euro compulsory reservation fee. Likewise Thalys train fare is covered by pass but in this case a supplement is charged - about $12 in second class and $25 in first class, and in first class you get a full dinner and wine. Normal Paris-
Amsterdam fare without a pass is about $110 in second class; $175 in first class - your pass must be valid in both France and Benelux for this pass holder fare. So your eurail pass should include France, Italy and Benelux. You should investigate the France-and-Italy pass, which you can buy in second class if you really want to economize (I won't I always recommend first class, much more relaxed and luxurious) and then if you have this pass you can get a Pass 2 Thalys fare Paris-Amsterdam for about $57 in second class $90 in first class. (www.thalys.com for current fares). If you want to go to Amsterdam via Brugge, the fares will be more. But a France-Italy + Pass 2 Paris-amsterdam fare may be the best for you. this pass also covers the Italy-Paris night trains, though as always you pay for sleeping accommodations. Even the Venice-Paris train that goes via Switzerland is covered by the France-Italy pass. You need only two days of travel on a France-Italy pass (overnight trains count as one day, the 7pm rule where if you board overnight train after 7pm, the next day is your unlimited travel day (i.e. you could go to Versailles or Chartres from Paris free the next day).
But looking at fares, you're better off buying pt-pt: Florence-Paris night train $125 in a T-6 ($150 in T-4, $200 in double p.p.) But the base train fare for pass purposes is about $90, not factoring in the sleeping accommodation - a minimum of $29 extra with any pass. So $90 Florence-Paris and then and then even if you pay full fare Paris-Amsterdam about $110= $200. If you go via Brugge, just a tad more as you avoid the thalys all together. Pt-pt for you!

metlc

Reservation fees for 2nd Class seats in Italy?

Please -- someone explain this to me...???

Eloise

I haven't read all the posts with the most careful attention, but yes, reservations are required in second class on Eurostar trains in Italy. When you buy a ticket for a Eurostar, a seat reservation is included.

wouldbetraveller

Thanks for the responses.

I will pursue the point-to-point option and see what happens.

ira

>Railpasses cover the whole train fare on TGVs- no supplements charged though you must pay a 3 euro compulsory reservation fee.<

Sounds like a supplement to me.

PalQ

As regards TGV reservation fees - are they supplements. I guess it's a matter of semantics - they are required, thus are not supplemental. But my understanding of a supplement is that you get something extra besides rail travel - i.e. on thalys in first class a meal, on Eurostar Italia tiny coffe and stale pastry in first class - nothing in either in second class but perhaps the supplement in that case covers the service of a hostess who is on the train. I don't know but I agree with TGV you could call it a supplement. Except in fact there are or have been at times some TGVs that don't require reservations - so I guess you could always call a reservation a supplement. (TGVs on Lille-Paris line have at times and may now not require reservations on certain services; such as the last trains of the day; you can also get a "sur-reservation" booking given out in certain numbers when TGVs are full and then the conductor finds you a no-show seat or you use the fold out seats between the cars.)