Go Back  Fodor's Travel Talk Forums > Destinations > Europe
Reload this Page >

Please help with Itinerary draft for 29 days in France

Please help with Itinerary draft for 29 days in France

Old Apr 24th, 2016, 02:01 PM
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Please help with Itinerary draft for 29 days in France

Hello fellow travelers,

I’m in the beginning stages of planning a trip with DH to France starting in late August this summer. We have visited Paris four times, and traveled to Provence and the Cote d’Azur three times, and enjoyed all of it. This time, with 29 days and as Empty Nesters for the first time, we’d like to explore new regions of the country as well as return for more leisurely time in some of our favorite spots.

We enjoy quaint neighborhoods, old architecture, art, history, and shopping for local goods. We love baguettes, cheese and wine, and we like to dine in small restaurants with local color. We’ve visited the major museums of Paris, so won’t return to them, but we definitely would want to see major museums in other areas.

After quite a bit of research online and in several travel guides, I’m hoping that some of the experts here on Fodors will help me to develop our itinerary.

We already have our flights on Delta (with Frequent Flyer miles!) flying into CDG and home from Nice. Other than that, nothing is booked yet. We plan to rent a car and drive for most of the trip, but would appreciate advice on that vs. trains/buses.

Here’s the rough draft of our itinerary so far, with a close estimate on the number of nights in each place.

Paris: Fly in, stay 5 nights.

Day 6: Pick up rental car in Paris, drive to Giverny in the morning, then visit Rouen on our way to Honfleur.

Honfleur: stay 1-2 nights

Bayeux: stay 1-2 nights (or longer?)

Day 9 or 10: drive to Dinan to visit on our way to Mont St-Michel in late afternoon, stay in Mont St-Michel 1 night

Drive to Loire Valley, touring Chambord on our way to Amboise

Amboise: stay 2-3 nights, visiting Chenonceaux, Cheverny, Chaumont and seeing the sights in Amboise. Should we spend more time here?

Drive to Beaune in Burgundy. Looking forward to leisurely tours of wine country.

Beaune: stay 3-4 nights. Again, we’re not sure if we should allow more time in this area.

After the Burgundy region, we are uncertain how to proceed. We’d like to spend some time in the warm, sunny south of France, but not sure about the best way to get there. Should we drive from Beaune, possibly stopping at Lyons or some other town along the way? Would it be better to drop the rental car, take a train to Bordeaux and pick up a new car there?

Bordeaux: 3 nights. I’m a big fan of Eleanor of Aquitaine, and would really like to see this area if it makes sense in this trip. Would it be wise to spend more time in this new area and eliminate some time on the Cote d’Azur?

St. Remy de Provence: 3 nights. We have stayed in this town twice before, and enjoy it as a base for touring other towns in the region. We’ve visited many: Apt, Gordes, Lourmarin, Les Baux, Rousillon, Abbaye le Senarque, Isle Sur le Sorgue, Aix en Provence, Arles, Nimes, Pont du Gard…but we know there are still more to explore.

Drive to Cote d’Azur, stay 3 nights.

Antibes? Nice? Not sure which is the best town for us. We’re leaning towards Nice, even though it’s so close to St. Paul de Vence, where we plan to end the trip. We have never stayed in Nice before, but it seems like a lovely spot for a few nights. However, if there is one area to cut, this would probably be our choice.

St. Paul de Vence: stay 4 nights, relaxing with short day trips. We have stayed at Le Hameau and would probably return there.

So, we would certainly appreciate any help from you as to how to improve the time allocated to different areas. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
cybertraveler is offline  
Old Apr 24th, 2016, 03:19 PM
  #2  
kja
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Given your stated interest in museums, you might want to make sure you have enough time for the Musée des Beaux-Arts in Rouen. I'm not sure you can meaningfully visit both Giverny and Rouen in a single day in transit from Paris to Honfleur, though....

Re: Amboise: I must admit that my interest in the great chateaux is not unlimited. Others obviously disagree, but one intensive day was enough for me! That said, I loved the gardens of Villandry, which are open later than most of the chateaux. And I considered the Tapestry of the Apocalypse extraordinary. You could, I think, see that en route from Mont St. Michel to Amboise, although I'm not sure you would have time for both the Tapestry and Chambord....

Should be a great trip no matter what you decide!
kja is offline  
Old Apr 24th, 2016, 04:25 PM
  #3  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You have a lot of time, but you also are considering a lot of places that span large parts of the country. I would suggest that you could extend your time in most locations by a least one night (except 3 nights is good for Amboise) - which may mean that you have to drop something.

Bordeaux is an interesting region, and next to the even-more-interesting and gorgeous region, the Dordogne. You could easily spend a week in the Dordogne, before even making it to Bordeaux. Alternatively, because Bordeaux is a bit of an outlier from your other locations, maybe this is the one to drop. (I will say, personal opinion and all, but I prefer Bordeaux and the Dordogne over the Burgundy area)

You have a lot of driving, so do some more reading and decide which to drop and which to spend more time in.
Lexma90 is offline  
Old Apr 24th, 2016, 05:08 PM
  #4  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,392
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I agree with Lexma90 - spend more time in each location. You really have a lot of driving in your itinerary & you'll spend a huge percent of your time in the car on some not-so-scenic roads.

My wife & I have spent 2 months vacationing in France every year since we retired early in 1999 so we could travel more. We've moved around quite a bit over these 17 years, but normally we spend 2 weeks in a single location before moving on to the next location.

Our two favorite regions in France are Provence & the Dordogne. Followed by Brittany, Cote d'Azur, and the Languedoc. Then Burgundy, Alsace and "others". Your itinerary has no "Dordogne area" in it. Just like Lexma - I suggest that you try to work that in - but stay there a minimum of 4-5 nights near Sarlat, and then 2 nights a little farther east near Rocamadour so you can visit the villages of Martel, Carennac, Loubressac, Autoire, the Gouffre de Padirac, and Rocamadour itself. As you leave this area for the Gorges du Tarn (my recommendation - instead of Provence because you have already been there), visit St Cirq Lapopie, Pech Merle cave, and Figeac. Then Carcassonne on the way to the Gorges.

I have several itineraries for the regions you are considering:
Provence & Cote d'Azur 30+ pages
Dordogne 20+ pages
Normandy & Brittany 20 pages
Languedoc 30+ pages
Burgundy 2-3 pages
"others" also
I have sent my various itineraries to over 6,000 different people on Fodors. If you would like a copy of any, e-mail me at [email protected] & I'll attach them to the reply e-mail. Specify which specific itineraries you would like.

Stu Dudley
StuDudley is offline  
Old Apr 24th, 2016, 06:45 PM
  #5  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Driving north out of Paris and then westerly to Mont St.M is easy enough; I believe we did that in three nights -- staying in private B&B chateaux that were exquisite and extremely reasonable in cost. We visited Dieppe, Etretat, Honfleur, the Normandy Beaches, Caen, and Mont St. M, Chartres cathedral, driving back to Paris that evening. We stayed at three B&B one night each as we were driving in a counterclock pattern. Perhaps one night longer would have been ideal.

It seems if you do indeed proceed east again to Burgundy, it leaves you logically up along the Rhone which can easily be followed down through Lyon and Avignon. Epernay & Dijon are two stars in this area; I think you might find Dijon a better spot to base from rather than Beaune. We stayed in Chenonceaux at the Le Bon Laboreur, right across the street from the chateau and it was super. From there, believe we drove through Amboise & Beaune and looped back to Paris. Think you can cut out a few nights from this region to allow time for Bordeaux and its delights along the Dordogne. If you were to ultimately eliminate Burgundy from this trip, you could get a train probably from Rennes to Bordeaux and get another car from there.

We spent three nights in Bordeaux and wish we'd had another. Lots to see and do in this city. The Aquitaine Museum is just fabulous and chronologically laid out so you don't miss a thing. You can tour Chateau Lafite Rothschild and Margaux, two of the seven premier cru, on a day driving up into Medoc. Then St. Emilion is right across the river a bit east. Continue to Sarlat, a gem of a city, and explore the delightful Dordogne villages for at least 5 nights from there. Then perhaps head south to Albi to see the one-of-a-kind Lautrec museum before a few nights in the City of a Million Pink Bricks, Toulouse. From there you can lunch at Carcassonne (11th century fortress) before arriving in Provence. We too based our Provence nights in St. Remy, so happy we changed from Arles & Avignon, as originally planned. There will be many posters advising more time along the Dordogne and skipping Bordeaux, but don't listen! While the Dordogne villages are quaint, charming, one more smashingly beautiful than the other, I need the mix of city and country. Such a change of architecture: from the gray of Paris, to the limestone of Bordeaux to the pink bricks of Toulouse -- vive la difference!
aliced is offline  
Old Apr 24th, 2016, 10:23 PM
  #6  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 49,560
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Going from Burgundy half the way across France to Bordeaux makes no sense to me. I would pick one of those regions, not both. Your plan has you zig-zagging across the country with too little time in any one place. Drop the Loire, or drop Burgundy, or drop Bordeaux.
StCirq is offline  
Old Apr 25th, 2016, 12:08 AM
  #7  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Yes.

Too much driving, otherwise the palces you picked are great.

I'd propose you look at Michelin.com or .fr and build your itineray there and see how much driving and driving time it represents. Then add some time to get lost, find your hotel, be stuck in traffic jams, stop to put fuel etc.
Whathello is offline  
Old Apr 25th, 2016, 01:05 AM
  #8  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,047
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Travelwise, an itinerary that includes everything you mentioned and even more would be like this:

From Paris to Normandy, from there to Loire. From the Loire, it is a rathe quick drive to Aquitaine. From there, you drive eastwards via Sarlat to Beaune, from there to Provence, ending on the Côte d'Azur.

Would I recommend to do this semi-loop? - No. Even if you have 29 days, I would say too many destinations.

Things would become easier if you skip one or two destinations. Without the Dordogne (sorry, StCirq!), it would be more relaxed. Zig-zagging or not, driving from Bordeaux to Beaune takes only 6 hours, if you take the most direct autoroutes. And from Beaune to St. Remy, it is only 4 hours. So, you CAN include Bourgogne.

But you had more questions.

Aquitaine. Bordeaux is a typical French provincial city with its charmes, however not too spectacular. Around Bordeaux, you find those famous wine chateaux which are fun to look at. Most of these great chateaux are not open for the public but you may peep through the cast-iron gates and see the magnficent buildings of Chateau Margaux, Cos d'Estournel etc.

For wine tastings and visits, the Cru Bourgeois chateaux are better available, e.g. this one just north of Bordeaux: http://tourduhautmoulin.com/

But besides wine, you find many more in Aquitaine, including one of the most beautiful stretches of sandy beach in Europe, the Côte d'Argent. There are two place which are especially beautiful: the large dune of Pyla and the Courant d'Huchet. Also, the Bay of Arcachon with its oyster gardens is interesting and the little town of Arcachon.

So, where to base yourself? There are many seaside resorts along the coast or you can stay in a wine village south or east of Bordeaux (in the Médoc, there is a limited choice of hotels) or in the city itsself. A matter of taste.

Your second question refers to a base on the Côte d'Azur. I understand you will arrive there by mid-September, when peak season is gone.

You can stay in Nice. Nice is a large city which has its attractions, but it would be a typical city stay.

Antibes would make a perfect base, with beautiful beaches, a mid-sized city feeling and a good location with lots of options for daytrips into all directions. The hinterland is somewhat less expensive and has more village charme (e.g. Mougins). Or you base yourself at the spectacular Esterel Coast in Theoule-sur-Mer, Antheor or Agay (after trying several other bases on the Côte, we always return to Agay).
traveller1959 is offline  
Old Apr 25th, 2016, 02:02 AM
  #9  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I disagree about Bordeaux. It is city with charm.
Whathello is offline  
Old Apr 25th, 2016, 11:07 AM
  #10  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thank you so much to each of you for the wealth of information. I'm going to take another long look at each of the places and see how to pare it down to a reasonable pace.

I'll post back with an update once I work things out. Thanks again!
cybertraveler is offline  
Old Apr 25th, 2016, 11:49 AM
  #11  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 49,560
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Bordeux is now a UNESCO World Heritage City and has undergone a massive transformation in recent years. I would definitely call it a city of great charm these days. I was there today and the Mirror, the Place St-Georges, the rue Ste-Cathérine, the Place du Parlement, and the newly built-up quaiside were all bursting with people having a wonderful time.

That said, if you need to cut it from your itinerary it won't be the end of the world.
StCirq is offline  
Old Apr 25th, 2016, 01:09 PM
  #12  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Day 9 or 10: drive to Dinan to visit on our way to Mont St-Michel in late afternoon, stay in Mont St-Michel 1 night>

the Mont will be hopelessly mobbed in August by that time - you may wait hours to get into the basilica topping the Mont - Seeing the spector of M-S-Michel gloriously illuminated at night from across the causeway (where there is a gaggle of hotels of all types) is mesmerizing and when I was there one August ;they had a special effects sound=and-light show inside the abbey buildings that I enjoyed even more than the crowded daytime tours.

Stay the night - get to the entrance early to avoid tour bus crowds and then putz onto to Dinan IMO - maybe leave Bayeux area in the afternoon and put up near the Mont for the night.

<Drive to Loire Valley, touring Chambord on our way to Amboise>

Not on the way to Amboise but well beyond it - Chenonceau could easily be on the way to Amboise kind of but not Chambord - Chenonceau is no doubt the most famous of all Loire castles - not to be missed - hit Chambord on your way out of the Loire.

Everyone seems to love Stu Dudley (posts above) his itineraries so yes send for them - they're free and very detailed TMK.

St-Cirq is an absolute expert (and resident) for the Dordogne-Bordeaux area IMO - she makes Bordeaux sound really nice - I'll have to re-visit it - long ago it was a grimy city but with some really neat and neglected monumental old buildings in its city center so see how it could really shine now- the UNESCO labeling is enough for me. so yes a day to look at Bordeaux but it is a huge city devoid of people in its town center probably after business hours and on Sundays (if like other French mega cities) - savor the Dordogne for a few nights - lots of caves to explore - hit the Gouffre de Padirac and Rocamadour - two very popular sights on your way out of the area towards Avignon.

and no to taking a train and renting a car in Bordeaux again - trains across central France can take ages - driving may be quicker and I guess if it were me I may forego Bordeaux if I wanted to savor the true beauty of France - its neat rural southern parts.
PalenQ is offline  
Old Apr 25th, 2016, 01:20 PM
  #13  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Two refutes on above: Bordeaux Premier Crus: Lafite Rothschild and Margaux are open for tours but must be booked way ahead; Latour is not. The city of Bordeaux is jumping at night (vs. "devoid of people in town center probably after business hours") in the Golden Triangle (three intersecting streets in hub of city). For this area including Bordeaux, Dordogne, the Cadogan guide is essential. (I believe the author is a poster, herein!)
aliced is offline  
Old Apr 26th, 2016, 01:45 AM
  #14  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,817
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'll second the notion that you should be prepared for traffic jams, as Whathello mentioned, since during late August and into the first 2 weeks of September everyone is making the mad rush to come back home or rushing somewhere else for the last remaining vacation days.

Make sure to reserve your car far ahead of time - especially if you'll be dropping off and picking up in different cities - and verify your reservations before you leave home. Also remember to keep your gas tank filled, as there are often fuel shortages during the Summer.

You really will have to drop some things from your list, unless you just want to do a "drive-by". And I would urge you to start booking your lodging right now.
fuzzbucket is offline  
Old Apr 28th, 2016, 05:28 PM
  #15  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hello again,

Thanks for all of your information. I have been researching all of the spots you recommended, and have revised our itinerary draft. Please let me know your thoughts as to whether I have pared it down enough.

Here’s the new and improved plan for our 29 nights:

Paris: Fly in, stay 5 nights (we could cut this, as we’ve been there 4 times, but we love Paris…)

Day 6: Pick up rental car, drive to Giverny on way to Honfleur (possibly Rouen, but if not enough time, perhaps we can see from Honfleur the next day?)

Honfleur: 1 night, drive to Bayeux (about 1 hr, 15 min)

Bayeux: 2 nights, drive to Mont St-Michel (about 1 ½ hr)

Mont St-Michel: 1 night; stay across from Mont St Michel with view of the island, or else on the island, arriving late afternoon after tourists, then visiting abbey in early morning before leaving for Amboise, stopping at Dinan on the way (possibly) (about 3 ½ hr)

Amboise: 3 nights. Chateaux to visit: Chambord (possibly on the way to Amboise?), Chenonceaux, Cheverny, Chaumont, Villandry. Drive to Sarlat. (about 4 ½ hr)

Sarlat: 5 nights. THANK YOU to everyone who recommended Dordogne. The more I researched, the more I know we will love it. Drive to Rocamadour area (about 1 hr)

Rocamadour area: 2 nights. I’m intrigued by the Domaine de la Rhue B&B, but would welcome any other suggestions.

Here’s where I still need help deciding:

Drive to Toulouse: 2 hours, perhaps stopping at St Cirq Lapopie on the way…

Toulouse: 3 nights. I know it’s a bit of an outlier, but it looks like a wonderful city and a nice switch from the more bucolic places we’d have been. Drive to Gorges du Tarn (about 3 hr)

Gorges du Tarn: 2 nights. The Hotel Chateau de la Caze looks like a lovely base here. We are not big “outdoorsy” people, although we are quite fit mid 60’s, so canoeing down the river would not be an option if we want to preserve the marriage. Also, while we do appreciate natural beauty, we’re a little claustrophic, so how do you think we’d do with caves? I’ve always wanted to see the cave art, but not sure we’d like the subterranean bit.

This next part is still not great…
Drive to St. Remy de Provence (3 ½ hr, perhaps stopping at Montpellier en route; we’ve already been to Nimes which is also along the way.) Remember: we’re flying home from Nice, so we need to get to that part of the country.

St. Remy de Provence: 1 night mostly just to catch our breath. (If we don’t stop, it is about a 5 hour drive to St. Paul de Vence from Gorges du Tarn, which seems grueling.)

Drive to Cotes d’Azur, staying in either Antibes, Nice, or St. Paul de Vence. (about 2 ½ hr)

Cotes d’Azur: 4 nights of total relaxation before leaving to go home. Antibes looks charming in the old quarter, but it would not be as convenient for getting to the Nice airport for an 11:30 am flight. We love Le Hameau in St. Paul de Vence, and have stayed there twice before, but we are open to other suggestions for this part.

So, I feel that this is an improvement, but not perfect. Any suggestions from the experts here would be most appreciated! Thanks in advance!
cybertraveler is offline  
Old Apr 28th, 2016, 06:05 PM
  #16  
kja
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So much better, IMO!

I was glad to stay on Mont St. Michel -- even though neither my lodging nor my meals were particularly special, there was something quite mystical about being there after day-trippers left, and I was able to visit the abbey before mobs of day-trippers arrived. For a nighttime view, walk out the bridge.

I spent a night in St Cirq Lapopie -- but only because it was a convenient place to stay for a visit to Pech Merle. I found it charming enough, but would not have otherwise made the town a priority. JMO.

I adore Toulouse -- it is an absolutely charming city! 3 nights there should be enough; if you want to visit Albi from Toulouse, consider adding a night.

I doubt you would find much use in my old itinerary -- it was very fast-paced and designed for a solo traveler with some very specific interests -- but you might find some helpful information in the comments others offered as I planned that trip, which included many of the places you are now planning to visit. Here's the link:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-itinerary.cfm

Enjoy!
kja is offline  
Old Apr 29th, 2016, 05:22 AM
  #17  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks kja. I read your itinerary and it looks like we have similar interests. You did a wonderful job in planning that trip. I'm taking notes of the suggestions you received as well. I can see that I still have a lot of work to do!
cybertraveler is offline  
Old Apr 29th, 2016, 05:12 PM
  #18  
kja
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I thought you might find some useful information among the wonderful tips and comments I received when planning that trip -- I learned so much from our fellow Fodorites and remain indebted to their generosity and wisdom! I'm glad you checked it out and hope it helps you, too.
kja is offline  
Old Apr 30th, 2016, 03:54 AM
  #19  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 49,560
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Domaine de la Rhue is a lovely property. That said, I would only spend 2 nights in the "Rocamadour area" if your plan is to concentrate on the "area" and not Rocamadour, which to me is worth at most a couple of hours. But if you are also planning on visiting the Gouffre de Padirac, Collonges-la-Rouge, Martel, and other local places, a couple of nights there would be fine.

Toulouse is a fabulous city, and apart from Albi there are a handful of absolutely lovely nearby towns, like Castelnaudary, Revel, Graulhet.....

I'll let someone else tackle the Côte d'Azur
StCirq is offline  
Old Apr 30th, 2016, 07:31 AM
  #20  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,047
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
>>Drive to St. Remy de Provence (3 ½ hr, perhaps stopping at Montpellier en route; we’ve already been to Nimes which is also along the way.) Remember: we’re flying home from Nice, so we need to get to that part of the country.

St. Remy de Provence: 1 night mostly just to catch our breath. (If we don’t stop, it is about a 5 hour drive to St. Paul de Vence from Gorges du Tarn, which seems grueling.)
traveller1959 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -