mktravel

Hi,

I'm planning my first trip to Europe for me and my husband. We would like to visit Italy and Croatia. In Italy, we will visit Rome, Florence, and Venice. In Croatia, we'd like to visit Hvar. I would also like to see Dubrovnik, but I don't think we really have the time. Our trip will be about 15 days in the beginning of September, 2012. I would love to travel for more time, but unfortunately we aren't able to leave our jobs for extended periods of time. In Italy we would like to see some of the major sights, soak up the culture, and enjoy good food. In Hvar, we would like to enjoy the water (sail, snorkel, etc), experience the nighlife, and take day day trips to other islands. Of course we also want to experience the culture, meet people, etc. We will be staying at small aparments. We are beach people, which is one of the reasons we'd like to incorporate Croatia into our Italy trip. We likely won't be back to Europe for a least a few years after this trip. We are in our early 30's.

I'm looking for a bit of advice to see if this itinerary looks good and makes sense. Thanks in advance for your help! Of particular concern is the flight from Rome to Split. I've done a lot of reseach, and this flights seems to be the best way for us to get to that part of Croatia. There is one per day, from what I can find. It's around $250USD per person and the open-jaw flight from LAX-Rome, Venice-LAX is about $1500 per person. The total for all flights is $3500 for 2 people. This seems expensive. Do those prices seem normal?

Day 1, Friday, August 31st: Fly from SNA or LAX to Rome, arrive Saturday
Day 2, Saturday, September 1st, Rome
Day 3, Sunday, September 2nd, Rome
Day 4, Monday, September 3rd, Rome
Day 5, Tuesday, September 4th, Rome
Day 6, Wednesday, September 5th, Fly from Rome to Split, Split to Hvar via ferry
Day 7, Thursday, September 6th, Hvar
Day 8, Friday, September 7th, Hvar
Day 9, Saturday, September 8th, Hvar
Day 10, Sunday, September 9th, Hvar
Day 11, Monday, September 10th, Hvar to Split via ferry, Split to Rome
via plane, Rome to Florence via trian
Day 12, Tuesday, September 11, Florence
Day 13, Wednesday, September 12th, Florence
Day 14, Thursday, September 13th, Florence to Venice via trian
Day 15, Friday, September 14th, Venice
Day 16, Saturday, September 15th, Venice to SNA or LAX

THANK YOU!

Andrew

For a first trip to Europe, I would cut out the complication of flying to Croatia and taking the ferry, etc. Stick to Italy - there is so much to see.

But if you must - some random thoughts:

Why so many days in Hvar? I have not really been there (my catamaran stopped on the way between Korcula and Split). I know it's supposedly beautiful - but small. Do you just want to relax there? Why not two days in Hvar, two in Dubrovnik and fly out of Dubrovnik home?

You could also fly easyJet from Split or Dubrovnik back to Italy. Check their website or Kayak.com for one-way fares in the summer months only though, perhaps.

I wouldn't fly out of Venice if possible - because most flights to the US leave early in the morning and require and expensive water taxi. Better to flip it if possible and fly out of Rome if possible, into Venice. You also seem to be cutting your time in Venice pretty short.

I'd look for a way to avoid the return to Italy from Croatia. Can't you fly out of Split or Dubrovnik directly or into? Can you fly into Milan and find an easyJet flight to Split the same day maybe some hours later?

There is also ferry service between Italy and Croatia - may not be quick or practical for you, but I assume you've looked into it?

xyz99

Hi mk,

I know it is a matter of traveling style and you want to see as much as possible in the amount of time you have. I think your plans are doable, but….only 1 day in Venice? If you keep your current itinerary, maybe you can take one day from Hvar and add it to Venice. Two full days in Hvar should be enough to walk around, see the castle, etc.

I haven’t visited Rome, so I don’t know if 4 days (after a long flight) is enough…I know I would want more, but this is about you. Personally, I would do Italy only this trip, and leave Croatia (which has a lot more to offer than Hvar) for a different trip, where at a minimum you might want to include Plitvice lakes and Dubrovnik, although there are so many other wonderful sites there to consider.

If not, have you looked into doing the Italy part together (fly into Venice, train to Florence, train to Rome), then Hvar via ferry and fly out of Split? Seems less moving around, and should be cheaper, too. Day 11 seems so hectic…

Let us know what you decided. Happy planning.

qwovadis

Hey MK welcome I havedone this a time or two will do this on the way to Hungary in 2012.www.balkanology.com good info there are a number of ways to do this in acouple of weeks.My wife and I love Venice-tourism.com amazing usually stay/base
there fly cheaply into Milan or Rome RT aa.com then seat61.com/italy and train around cheaply to save.Flights
are quite expensvie www.wizzair.com some cheaper econo
flights that might work. 2 years ago we took the overnite
Blue Line ferry from 20 euro Ancona Split.It was easy cheaper than air and quite nice.Last year we trained over to Trieste
a couple of hours from Venice walked across the street to
the bus station hopped a bus down the coast pretty cheap but
more of a long slog.There also are some ferries from Venice
have taken the Prince in season it was nice.Anyway sort of complex but doable in many ways might pare back and do more Italy if you have not been.

Good luck!

Ackislander

Too much backtracking and too many international flights means you will spend all your time in airports (2 hours before the flight for international means leaving Rome 3 hours before the flight etc), plus it costs a bundle, as you saw.

Do Rome fully, then Florence, then Venice, all by train. I love Croatia, but I wouldn't spend a third of my time in Hvar.

qwovadis

Another way to do this might be to fly into LON
do wizzair.com Luton to Split do your tour ferry
over to Italia fly ryanair.com or easyjet.com
back to LONhave done this very cheaply booked
in advance. Happy Planning!

kja

Much as I loved Croatia, I'll add my voice to those urging you to spend all your time in Italy on this trip. You really only have 3 days in Rome (you'll lose most of the first day to jet lag), which is barely enough to scratch the surface. You have a bit more than 2 days in Florence, and while people really differ in their preferences for Florence, I thought 5 days too little (but I love art and architecture). And you really have only 1 day in Venice, which again is barely enough to scratch the surface. Hvar is lovely, but you will spend a lot of time and money to make it part of your journey.

The good news is that you will see some wonderful places no matter what you decide. Enjoy!

easytraveler

You'll have to explain the fascination with Hvar.

I've been to Hvar and I don't think it's worth 1/3 of your trip time either, even though I loved my time there.

You could spend all five days in Croatia. Look into doing more than one island - maybe do Hvar and Korcula with one day in Dubrovnik.

Agree also with the suggestion that you could take a day out of Hvar/Croatia and add that to Venice.

It looks like the other problem the other posters have spotted is that you're splitting up the Italian portion of your trip. Could you maybe do Croatia first and then Italy?

Have fun planning!

kawh

i might cut back on hvar as well. we loved it, but it is very small. we explored the town first evening. rode a motorbike around the island on day 2 and enjoyed the water day 3 and in-between times. we were really ready to go at that point.

also-- make sure you check the ferry schedule very carefully. it can be fussy and, in our case, sold out on occasion.(was not a happy moment but forced us to slow down a bit.) we took a sleeper ferry from croatia to italy-- and that worked really well for us-- a cute little 2-person room with tiny shower and quite reasonable.

still-- as someone earlier said.. you may want to just fly from lax to london (always good fares) and then fly one of the very inexpensive airlines to rome or to croatia.

or you could include dubrovnik. a disneyland-like place -- but amazing to see, much like venice. i have very fond memories of swimming at their public beach-- and there are lots of little islands to explore right there. it's a pretty magical place. (not to confuse things too much... but you'll be so close!) you could fly to london, then dubrovnii, then ferry to hvar, then to split, then...... just some late-night thoughts.

mktravel

Thank you, everyone, for your taking the time to help me out! I'm actually not obsessed with Hvar (ha!). I just tought it would be a good base for exploring other islands and kicking back. After reading all of your responses, this the current itinerary I'm bouching around:

I have 14 nights total.

Venice 3 nights (it seems people are so divided on this place)
Florence 3-4 nights
Levanto 2-3 nights, visting Cinque Terre, possibly some surfing, a boat ride, fun on the beach (I do know about the flood).
Rome 4-5 nights.

The only other thing I can come up with right now regarding Croatia is this:

Dubrovnik: 3 nights
Hvar: 3-4 nights
Ferry or fly to Rome
Rome: 7 nights

I really just need an extra week for this trip!

Thoughts?

Andrew

Your revised Italian itinerary sounds fine.

Yes, people are divided on Venice. Some people hate it, others think a week is barely enough time. I'm divided myself: I love and hate Venice. During the day, it's crowded with mobs of people, like Disneyland, around the major sites (San Marco, Rialto, and the train station). It's miserable. But at night, when the tour groups go back to Mestre and the cruise ship groups are gone, it's much nicer. And in the morning it's even better when almost no one is up yet. Morning is really my favorite time there.

I've been to Venice three times - twice for three nights and once for a day trip only stopping off the train. Three nights is really about right for me. During the day I try to avoid the major hotspots - go to the other islands (Morano, Borano, etc.) or even day trip to Padua or Verona. It's nice to come back at night.

I've stayed in Levanto twice. It's a nice but conventional beach town than the five villages of the Cinque Terre and easy enough to get to them by train from Levanto (or a very long hike to Monterosso - or by boat I think). It does have a nice beach even if lacks some of the "exotic charm" of the other towns.

It is a long train ride from Levanto to Rome (I've done it - actually all the way to Naples).

Consider a day trip to Siena from Florence.

Consider stopping in Bologna off the train between Venice and Florence - your train will stop there anyway - at least for a meal, for probably the best food on your trip.

xyz99

MK,
I like your first new option (without Croatia) much better. We did Venice, Florence and Cinque Terre (before the flood) in 2 weeks. I loved them all, for different reasons, but here are some other thoughts:

Please keep in mind that 2-3 nights actually means 1-2 days, you really need to take into consideration the train time, getting to/from your hotel to the train station and possible train strikes (not rare in Italy - we were affected by one on our trip). All these reduce your actual time in each place.

Cinque Terre is (was? before the flood – I really don’t know now) a magical place, but I don’t think you have time for it. I would add these extra days to Rome, and consider Andrew’s suggestion for a day trip to Siena. As I said, haven’t been to Rome (yet), but between its museums, monuments, the Vatican, the size of the city, etc. 4 days does not seem enough.

But if you are not really museum people, that might be just enough. I guess it is up to you and your priorities. No matter what you decide, you will love Italy.

easytraveler

Me,too.

I like your all-Italy itinerary better.

Besides which you cut down 5 days in Hvar to 4 - WT...?

3 nights in Dubrovnik is two nights too many, IMHO.

You really don't want to base yourself on one island but do the island hop. From Dubrovnik to Hvar to Korcula to Split - something like this would make more sense, otherwise you will be spending an inordinate amount of time on the ferries.

Andrew

I would keep the 2-3 nights in the Cinque Terre for sure; otherwise, you are seeing all big, touristy cities. Not that the Cinque Terre won't be mobbed too - but it's much smaller than the other places and a nice contrast. The two towns badly hit by floods were Vernazza and Monterosso, and it sounds from reports like they will be open for tourists by next September. The other towns were not badly damaged if at all.

Like Venice, Rome isn't everyone's favorite place. Three nights there were enough for me personally. Some people adore Rome and could spend weeks there, but I found it loud, big, and crowded. Beyond the Roman Forum area (which was spectacular), I didn't care for Rome much otherwise.

Actually, mktravel, be prepared for mobs of people everyone you go in Italy in September. I love parts of Italy very much, but the crowds really bug me sometimes. Slovenia last fall was a nice contrast - much more laid back. (Croatia too but Dubrovnik is also very very busy with tourists in September.) Still, my European travels would not be complete without my three trips to Italy.

mktravel

Thank you, again!

I will definitely keep Cinque Terre because I know how my husband and I operate, and I think we'll enjoy the beach, charming towns, the ocean, etc.

Andrew, thanks for suggesting Bologna and Siena. I've been reading a lot about Bologna and the food (we love food), so it has been on my mind as a place to visit! I will do some more reseach on Siena as well since I don't know much about it.

I also appreciate the thoughts on Rome. I know we won't see everything, but that's not really my goal, so I think 4 nights will be fine for this trip. I hope to return one day to the places we really love.

Andrew

I think you have the right attitude about future travel: don't expect to see everything on one trip. You're doing a nice overview of Italy. You can come back and see more. In 2009, I started in Italy and headed for Croatia via two nights in Ljubljana, Slovenia, but that was enough to know I wanted to see more, so in 2011 I came back to spend about ten days just in Slovenia.

Bologna is different from Venice and Florence - it doesn't have the obvious "art" appeal of those two and also isn't even mentioned in Rick Steves books (last I checked), so far fewer Americans visit. Bologna has its own sort of appeal, but many Americans don't find it that exciting. I had only a night there (expensive - Bologna hotel prices can be high due to conventions and trade shows that come often), and it didn't exactly blow me away, but the food was amazing.

Siena is an easy day trip from Florence by bus; by train is possible but less convenient (trust me). There isn't much to research, really - it's just a quaint old town with an amazing town square that blows most people away. You can commit 3/4 of a day to it (about 2 hours by bus each way) but it's not that big, easy to walk around and explore. I kind of wished I'd spent a night there, though. But a day trip would be easier for most people, one less night of moving around, etc.

If you visit the Cinque Terre, I hope you also plan to HIKE. That's really the main attraction in my opinion - hiking between towns. Some of the hikes are semi-difficult but are very rewarding: you hike through olive groves and vineyards and past people's back yards, up and down many steps and paths, with amazing views down to the sea. And you get great vantage points down to the towns that make you go, "Wow!" As a bonus, the focaccia bread pizza in the CT is amazing.

mktravel

Andrew- yes we will hike!

Have you been to Chiati?

kawh

yes. we love love love bologna and somehow always end up fitting it into our trip-- wherever we are in italy, we find an excuse to go there. and don't miss the best gelato in all of italy (and i have made it my business to do a serious scientific study) at Gelateria Stefino. most fresh tasting i have had anywhere. also-- best granita in the world. nothing like it on a hot day. not to be confused with a galateria that is on a street that sounds like stefino-- this one is on via galleria.

if you do only italy-- go to bologna. it is beautiful and filled with college students. and as said above, the food tends to be first rate.

Gianniholidays

Hello mk,

for a relaxing holiday in croatia I can suggest you the island of Dugi otok, near the city of Zadar.
It is still undiscovered island with nice beaches and near the Plitvice lakes.The city of Zadar is old town and also very nice to visit.

mktravel

We decided, somewhat reluctantly, to go to Italy only. I'm sad to skip Croatia, but it seems like for our fist visit to Europe we should take as much time as we can to explore Italy. Croatia will be next!

3 nights Venice
4 nights Florence
3 nights Cinque Terre (1 day of hiking and 1 day on a boat)
4 nights Rome

We will visit Bologna on the way to Florence and take a day trip from Florence to Siena or possibly take a bicycle tour of wine country.

In Rome, I would like to take a guided tour of the historical sites. I think it will be helpful to have a knowledgeable guide show us as much as possible, and we can take the remaining 2 days to explore on our own and go back to the places where we want to spend more time. The guides seem expensive, but we like to take walking tours in every city we visit, so I think this will be the route to go (although the tours are in a vehicle, not walking).

Thanks you, eveyone, for your help!