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Please help 21 day driving tour Wales & Southern England Sept 2017

Please help 21 day driving tour Wales & Southern England Sept 2017

Old Jul 2nd, 2017, 10:08 AM
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Please help 21 day driving tour Wales & Southern England Sept 2017

Hi,
We are an active couple in our mid 60's. We would like help with an itinerary for 21 days arriving & leaving from London at the beginning of Sept 2017. We have been to Scotland on an earlier trip so would probably leave it out this time. Also have traveled quickly through the Cotswold, Lake District & Bath, but would like to see again if time permits also we are thinking 3 or 4 days in London at the end of the trip.
Our hope is to be able to see Wales, Cornwall & southern England. We would like to see Port Issac (Doc Martin)
We enjoy most historical sites in moderation also enjoy seascapes & quaint villages.
I don't mind driving but would prefer more scenic routes over busy motorways.
Our preferred accommodations would be B&B's or small hotel/pubs. We are not fancy but clean rooms with ensuite are preferred. Also within walking distance of pubs & restaurants if possible ( we do enjoy a pint or 2)
We have rented cars from Auto Europe in the past with good result,s however other suggestions for routes, sights or accommodations etc. would be appreciated.
We understand this is short notice for this trip but the opportunity came up at the last minute so any help would be appreciated.
Thank you
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Old Jul 2nd, 2017, 10:58 AM
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1- Leave London (may find taking train to Heathrow Airport or Oxford and picking up car there easier than driving out of central London)
Oxford
2,3,4 Cotswolds
5, 6, Bath
7, 8, 9, 10, 11 North Wales

Base in a dreamy small town like Conwy (still ramparted from medieval times) and do several easy day trips like to Beaumarais Castle lovingly set on the sea; Caernarvon and its famous castle - short distance from Mt Snowdon (great hike or steam train to top);
Conwy Valley; Great Orme, etc). Locals still speak Celtic as daily tonque IME).

12, 13, 14 Lake District

15 Head for Cornwall for the rest of your trip -hitting maybe on way back to London Stonehenge and Salisbury (neat city besides famed cathedral).

Lake District is kind of an outlier from making a nice loop -maybe drop it and spend more time driving thru southern Wales via Abertstywth and down to Shrewsbury (lovely regional town) and Ludlow -super nice town to Cornwall.)
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Old Jul 2nd, 2017, 11:29 AM
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Do you want to spend any significant time in London? In which case I would suggest putting that time at the end of the trip, but if you want to see Wales, Cornwall and Southern England, you'll need virtually all of your 21 days for the tour.


I don't know what time you will arrive in London, but there are still reasonably priced rail tickets [including some first class ones] from London to Chester which you can book in advance to get the best prices. I suppose that if you were being prudent, you would book for the day after you arrive.

You could then pick up a car in Chester and tour North Wales - I suspect that booking would not be necessary - there should be plenty of B&B accommodation available - or you could book a cottage for little more than that and have the freedom of self-catering.

You then have a choice to make - you can fly from Manchester to Newquay on Flybe - approx £100 each - which takes about an hour, or you could spend a few days meandering from North Wales through the Welsh Marches, perhaps stopping for a couple of days in Bristol [a much neglected but fine historic city] through North Somerset and Devon to Port Isaac. Though googlemaps says that this journey should take about 6 hours, to get the best of this route you'd need at least 3-4 days, and if you stopped off in Bristol, it could easily take a week.

You could then spend a week or so in Cornwall - perhaps 3 nights in Port Isaac and 4 in Penzance - and finish the trip with the classic train journey from PZ to London, arriving a day or two before your flight home.

I know that doesn't give you any time for Southern England - you'd need to forgo the Marches and Bristol to be able to fit that in.
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Old Jul 2nd, 2017, 11:38 AM
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About my original driving route-I messed up

I would go London - Oxford -Cotswolds

then shoot up to Lake District

and down thru North and South Wales and down to Cornwall.

much more logical if doing all those places

Yes taking trains out of London and back to it is a great idea -pick up car in one place return it in Cornwall and have that rather scenic train ride back to London. Booking that ticket far in advance could yield nice discounts - www.nationalrail.co is the site you can easily do that on and also save a day or two of car rental. for lots on trains check www.seat61.com-the guru of discounted tickets; for general info like differenc between 1st and 2nd cl -also check www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

Exeter is another really nice city to terminate your car trip in and take train back to London (though the really scenic parts are before the train reaches Exeter).
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Old Jul 2nd, 2017, 12:08 PM
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topping
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Old Jul 2nd, 2017, 04:23 PM
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Thank you PalenQ janisj & annhig for your great comments.
After reviewing a map, does it make sense to take train from London south to the coast then rent a car heading along the coast to Cornwall then to Wales & if we have enough time do the Lakes at the end. We could then drop the car off in Liverpool or Chester train back to London for a couple of days. Could we fit the Cotswolds in? Also what towns would you suggest in each area for a base, we usually like to stay in each place for a few days & do day trips. Your thoughts would be appreciated.
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Old Jul 2nd, 2017, 05:01 PM
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Could we fit the Cotswolds in?>

Well yes just get on motorway and blast down from Lakes to Cotswolds, which are best appreciate by car and foot - return car in Oggsford or Heathrow or Reading if possible.

Chester is an exceptionally sweet town on a nice river.
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Old Jul 3rd, 2017, 02:57 AM
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We just stayed for 4 nights in Aberaeron in Western Wales this past May. This place is wonderful: http://www.harbour-master.com/. ALL of the routes in Wales are scenic- and fairly slow going.

We stayed in Conwy 5 years ago at Gwynfryn B&B: http://www.bedandbreakfastconwy.co.uk/ and had a marvelous time. Lots to see in the area. We spent one night in Chester on that trip and it was worth more time.

Both of these were great bases. I adore Wales and hope to do a trip like you are planning some day, because I'd love to also see Cornwall.

We started in London, took the train to Cardiff and rented from Enterprise. Can't say enough good things about them.
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Old Jul 3rd, 2017, 05:35 AM
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After reviewing a map, does it make sense to take train from London south to the coast then rent a car heading along the coast to Cornwall then to Wales & if we have enough time do the Lakes at the end.>>

Honestly, it depends. One reason is that the people who "designed" [i use the word loosely] did not intend people to get from the south of England to the West very easily. Depending on where you are thinking of going of course, Bournemouth for example to Cornwall is a pig of a journey.

A better idea would be to go south, say to Winchester, then to the New Forest, Salisbury, Stonehenge, Wells/Glastonbury, down to Exeter, across the top of Dartmoor, and down into Cornwall.

on the way back, go up the "Atlantic Highway" visiting the lovely village of Morwenstow, then up to dramatic Hartlant point, east to Clovelly and Appledore, then Bristol and Wales.

Once over the bridge, I would head west via the Brecon Beacons to Pembrokeshire, then up the coast to Snowdonia and end in Chester.

I would be very doubtful if you could manage more than that in 3 weeks but if you had any time left, you could see the Cotswolds on the way back or the Welsh Marches - not both.

I can't see you fitting in the Lakes as well.
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Old Jul 3rd, 2017, 05:47 AM
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see my comments on the other thread

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-sept-2017.cfm
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Old Jul 14th, 2017, 06:38 PM
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Thank you all for your helpful advise. After considering your wonderful suggestions we have decided to forgo the Lakes District & the Cotswolds on this trip. We like the idea of the train to Winchester & then taking the route suggested by annhig along with PalenQ & janisj
London - 3 nights (beginning or end of trip ?
Winchester by train - 2 nights & pick up car
Exeter - 2 or 3 nights
Cornwall - 4 nights (is this enough) What city would you use as a base?
Bristol - 2 nights ?
South Wales - 4 nights ( base city any thoughts?)
Snowdonia & North Wales - 3 nights ( base city? Conwwy?
Liverpool/ Chester - 2 or 3 nights drop off car, train to London
Is there a scenic route you would suggest or any places to visit
We would appreciate any comments on this rough itinerary or suggestions on B&B's etc.
We have not purchased air yet so we could add a few days if needed
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Old Jul 15th, 2017, 03:27 AM
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Hi wilkie - glad to have been of help and it looks as if you have the making of a great trip there.

personally, I would go straight from the airport [which one?] to Winchester and put your London days at the end, but you could always do it your way round, though you might want a night near the airport before your flight "just in case".

If you start with Winchester, I would go for 3 nights there - lots to do in the area so perhaps pick up a car on the second day - and only 2 in Exeter which really only has the Cathedral and its immediate environs to see, though nearby Topsham is nice and I love Sidmouth which is in the Area of Outstanding natural beauty to the immediate east of the city.

If you could squeeze 6 nights in Cornwall into your itinerary, you could divide your stay into south/east of the county, [I would suggest Fowey] and west/north, [Penzance or St ives] with 3 nights in each. If that's not possible, 5 nights would be better than 4, but however many you have, either Falmouth or Penzance would be my choice, but many people like St Ives as well. There are a few recent TRs from posters who stayed in PZ and St Ives, so they might help you to decide. If you like boat trips, Falmouth is the obvious choice and it is a great choice too for walking and for garden visiting. And eating - there is a vast selection of great restaurants. PZ is great for visiting the far west, The Minack theatre, old mine workings, St Ives, and its immediate environs - lovely Mousehole and Newlyn, as well as the excellent Penlee Gallery which is full of gorgeous Newlyn school paintings and has a great cafe. And there are plenty of decent restaurants there too.

2 nights is barely enough to see Bristol but it's better than nothing - if you like to be in the thick of it, choose a hotel in the middle but my choice would be the Avon Gorge hotel - it's in a lovely area of the city, it's easy to get to from the motorway without driving through the city, and you can leave your car there and get the bus into the centre:

http://theavongorgehotel.com

I'm not sure where you should stay in south Wales - I spent a few family hols in Tenby in my youth but more recently we have stayed with friends on their farm, which isn't really a help! Perhaps others can help you with that.
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Old Jul 15th, 2017, 07:25 AM
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Just catching up with this post but would agree with annhig about only needing a limited about of time for Exeter. The cathedral is worth seeing and a quick walk about, perhaps down to the quay, but that's about it. There's a nice tea shop for lunch etc. just across the Green from the cathedral.
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Old Jul 15th, 2017, 08:50 AM
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No one ever mentions or seemingly goes to Plymouth -I only briefly looked around -any reason to go for a tourist with limited time?
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Old Jul 15th, 2017, 10:00 AM
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ahh - Plymouth. I tend to overlook it as I used to work there a lot and you might say that familiarity has bred contempt but in fact lots of tourists go to Plymouth, Pal - and they often stay at the same hotel I stay in when I'm working there:

https://thedukeofcornwall.co.uk

It's a little old fashioned and the outside could do with a bit of a facelift, but everything works, the staff are lovely, and the rooms are large, especially if you go for a superior one. And it has parking.

The city itself is not a thing of beauty, IMHO, but if you're prepared to put up with the traffic going into and out of the city, it would make a very good touring base for places like Dartmoor, the Tamar, Rame Head [the NT property Anthony has very fine gardens] Mount Edgecumbe, [ditto] south-east Cornwall as far as Looe and Polperro, and SW devon as far as Salcombe and Totnes. In the city itself there is the Hoe which has very fine views over Plymouth Sound and there are a few good restaurants down on the Barbican which also houses Plymouth Gin [you can do a guided tour if that's your thing].

In fact, dare I say, it might make a better base for Wilkie than Exeter, though it's a bit further to drive from Winchester. [nearly 3 hours as against 2 ½]

On the way to Cornwall you could call at Looe and/or Polperro if you wished.

Good call Pal!
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Old Jul 15th, 2017, 01:51 PM
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thanks - I was born in Plymouth (Michigan) one reason I did go there (Plymouth England) - our high school nickname was the "Rocks" so always wanted to go - thought you were a barrister not a hotel worker! (and they often stay at the same hotel I stay in when I'm working there)!

Cheers -and yes never recall anyone saying anything about Plymouth (UK). Any Pilgrim relics in Plymouth - there is a Plymouth Rock there right?
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Old Jul 16th, 2017, 01:38 AM
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Any Pilgrim relics in Plymouth - there is a Plymouth Rock there right?>>

wrong, Pal - the Plymouth Rock seems to be the rock on which the pilgrims disembarked when the reached the New World [and a breed of chickens of course].

the only relic of their departure is the Mayflower steps, and they are not the originals:

http://www.visitplymouth.co.uk/thing...steps-p1398993
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Old Jul 16th, 2017, 01:51 AM
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Plymouth suffered under German bombing and British town planning with the only creative things starting around 2000. For me the best bit is Plymouth Hoe and everything south of that (look at a map)

I used to visit as a kid, then a young adult and sometimes now and really it never gets any better. Especially since the rest of Devon and Cornwall are so fantastic
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Old Jul 16th, 2017, 07:28 AM
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ann - yes I thought just after posting Plymouth Rock is in Plymouth, Massaschusetts.
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Old Jul 17th, 2017, 08:06 AM
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We have now booked our flights arriving Sept 7th
London - arrive noon to Heathrow, train to Winchester
Winchester - 2 nights & pick up car
Exeter or Plymouth - 2 nights
Cornwall south/east - 3 nights we really like Fowey
Cornwall west north - 3 nights Falmouth, Penzance, St Ives?all looks good which would you suggest for a quiet base with easy car access
Bristol - 2 nights
South Wales - 4 nights ( base city any thoughts?)
Snowdonia & North Wales - 3 nights ( base city? Conwwy?
Liverpool/ Chester - 2 or 3 nights drop off car, train to London
London - leave Heathrow Oct 4th 2 pm
Plymouth sounds interesting but it may not have the charm of others
annhig your hotel suggestion https://thedukeofcornwall.co.uk/looks really cool but may be a little over budget
we are looking to stay in B&Bs or 3star types of accomadations to meet our budget
thanks to palenQ & bilboburger for your thoughts on Plymouth (i have a 1939 Plymouth sedan That has been in our family since new so I also have a connection with Plymouth)
We have added a few more days to our trip so would be interested in hearing your thoughts on where to add these extra days.
We had originally planned to spend a few days in the Algarve (St Luzia) at the end of the trip
Also any help with the Wales portion would be very much appreciated.
Thanks for all of the great advice
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