Ozziez

We are a family of five from Australia (Mum, Dad, 17 year old daughter, 12 year old daughter, and 10 year old son). We will be in Europe for December 2008 and England for the first two weeks of January 2009. We will be in Rome for the 8th to 12th days of our holiday, having spent the first 7 days in Salzburg, Cesky Krumlov, Prague and Dresden.

I want to show my children the really important historical sites in Rome and Pompeii, without putting them off art and history for life. With this aim in mind, I have tried to mix museums, churches and galleries with other activities. There will also be stops to try Gelato (even though it will be very cold!) and I’ll make sure that we have regular food and drink breaks to refuel batteries.

We have been reading books on Rome and Pompeii (at different levels for the differing ages of the children) and I will download some podcasts for them as well. I am hoping that this will make the experience more worthwhile for them.

With all the wonderful riches of Rome, please tell me if I have picked the highlights, if I have missed anything – anything at all – that should be included, and if I have put sights in the right order.

Day 1 – Wednesday 10th December

Fly to Rome from Dresden, arriving at FCO at 12.20pm.
Organise Rome Shuttle Limousine to take us to apartment in Piazza Del Fico.
Complete handover
Buy bus tickets
Catch bus to Termini to buy train tickets to Naples, Florence and Venice (we're going to Florence and Venice after Rome), and Roma Passes
Take metro to the Piazza del Popolo station, walk through the central arch on the Southern end of the Piazza and continue down Via Del Corso
Head towards Piazza Navona to see Bernini’s Fontana del Moro
Buy some groceries
Early dinner and bed

Day 2 - Thursday 11th December

Take bus to Termini station
Take 7.45am train to Naples, arriving at Napoli Centrale at 9.30am
Buy tickets for Circumvesuviana train to Pompeii from newsagent
Take Naples-Sorrento train (either 9.39am or 10.09am) and get off at Pompeii Scavi/Villa dei Misteri stop (either 10.17am or 10.47am)
Explore Pompeii for at least 3 hours – longer if everyone is having fun
Take 14:22 Circumvesuviana train back to Naples, arriving 14:47
Take bus from Piazza Garibaldi to Archaelogical Museum
Leave museum by 17:30 and take bus back to Napoli Centrale
Grab something to eat at the station
Take 18:24 train back to Rome, arriving Termini at 20:33
Take bus or taxi back to apartment

Day 3 – Friday 12th December

Walk to the Vatican (or take the bus)
10am - guided tour of Vatican museums & Sistine Chapel
Then spend the rest of the day exploring the museum, reviewing the Sistine Chapel, visiting St Peters Basilica, and climbing the dome

Day 4 – Saturday 13th December
Take bus to get to the Borghese Gallery by 8.30am
9am – 11am - Borghese Gallery
Cappuccin Crypt
Spanish Steps
Trevi Fountain
Elephant obelisk
Pantheon
Churches of San Luigi dei Francesi, Santa Maria Sopra Minerva, St Ignazio, and Gesu
Cat sanctuary

Day 5 – Sunday 14th December
Take bus to Palatine Hill and get tickets for Palatine, Collesseum and Forum
Explore the Palatine Hill
Arch of Constantine
Visit the Colosseum
Basilica of San Celmente (open 12:00 – 18:00 on Sundays)
St Peters in Chains to see Moses
Roman Forum
Mamertime Prison
Capitol Hill
Capitoline museums (we probably won’t go inside, unless everyone feels up to it)
Victor Emmanuel Monument
Trajan’s market, Column & Trajan’s Forum

adrienne

Well my head is spinning! It looks like you've covered quite a bit here and there is only so much you can do in 3 days. My advice is to arrive at the Borghese Museum itself by 8:30 to have enough time to pickup tickets and check bags. I don't know where the bus leaves you off but you could have a 10 minute walk to the museum. Even taxis don't bring you right to the building. Are you getting the guided tour? I really enjoyed the tours (did them more than once).

I'm glad you've put the archeological museum into your itinerary to supplement what you've seen at Pompeii.

Have you seen these threads on the Forum? The're very in depth and might be helpful.

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34410922

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34713215

TDudette

Congrats on a wonderful 6 weeks! Hope you have a wonderful trip. Good that you have built in "if we aren't tired" activities. Distances between sites and various opening times will add to your schedule.

Day one: What is "complete handover"? Sorry, I just arose!

On your day 4:
"Churches of San Luigi dei Francesi, Santa Maria Sopra Minerva, St Ignazio, and Gesu"

Check the distances between these churches (or their proximity to your other sites)-you may need to pare down this list. Of those you listed, my personal fave is St. Ignazio and its dome. Many churches are not open all day long.
><

Sarvowinner

Hi Ozzie

You really have planned things. We didn't do half the things you did.

Just a few comments. We also did the 10.00am Vatican tour - the crowds tend sweep you along. There is no way my group would have considered going back against the crowds after the tour to explore. After exiting at around 12.00 we went into St Peters to find it was closing at 12.30 (still haven't found out why), so we only had a quick squiz. Longer would have been better but it wouldn't have been much longer - I couldn't see spending a whole day there.

We then had lunch in the Jewish Quarter and headed off to the Forum and Colosseum. The guys enjoyed it so much they headed back the next day while my daughter & I went shopping. The group vetoed the Borghese Gallery - we had already visited Florence.

A highlight for all (including the teenagers) was our early morning visit to the market at Campo Fiori. The fresh produce and flowers were just beautiful. We did that before we went to the Vatican. We grabbed cabs - they weren't expensive.

I would probably visit the Trevi FOuntain, Pantheon and Piazza Navona together on the first day - they are very close and make a nice walk to stretch your legs - do all of you need to go to the Termini to buy the tickets? If not I would delegate one person to grab a taxi from your apartment to get the tickets. Al the remainder of your family can just wander at leisure. We were in Piazza Navona around 7.00pm when suddenly some musicians started playing and everyone in the piazza stood up and waltzed - just magic.

Also bear in mind, plans are easily torn asunder. We had booked 10.00am tickets to the Uffizi in FLorence - the staff called a staff meeting (strike) and the museum didn't open until 12.00 noon.

When we arrived in Rome by train, we found the metro was closed due to strike activity. The taxi queue was over an hour long. We had to pull our bags to the apartment. On the other hand when my sister in law arrived in Rome, the taxis were on strike! And as I said, we didn't realise until we exited the Vatican museum that St Peters was closing early. On the other hand, we ended up having a wonderful lazy lunch.

Ah, you've brought back some wonderful memories - even carrying all our bags down the Spanish Steps because the elevator was on strike as well!

adrienne

Are you going to San Luigi dei Francesi for the Caravaggios? If so you should stop into Santa Maria del Popolo since you'll be in the square. Caravaggio's Crucifixion of St Peter is there.

Mimar

To avoid a trip to the Stazioni Termini on your first day, you could buy your train tickets at the airport. Of course, since you're not taking the train into Rome, the train ticket offices might be a little out of the way. You can also buy train tickets at travel agencies that display the Trenitalia logo. You'll probably one across several such agencies as you sightsee.

As for the Roma pass, you can buy it at the tourist information offices. There's one at the north end of the Piazza Navona, which is not too far from your apartment.

The tickets for the Circumvesuviana you buy at a ticket booth near the tracks. We took the subway from the main Naples train station to the Archeological Museum.

You could use your Roma pass for the Colosseum and Palatine Hill to avoid lines. But maybe skip the latter. Does the Forum require an entrance ticket now?

You know your children's interests and patience the best. But I think you've packed too much in days 3,4 and 5. You could put one more stop in day 1 -- since you won't be suffering from jet lag.

But make up your mind that you won't see everything. There's so much in Rome. But it's also a very enjoyable city. Don't make it a forced march.

Vttraveler

overall the schedule is very packed and our kids would rebel at this kind of pace, especially at having to get up so early every morning. You will already have visited 4 different cities in a week. I would not do the Pompeii/Naples day trip which is a very long, tiring day. There is more than enough to see in Rome. Ostia Antica is a much closer, easier day trip

Your first day looks a little light--especially when compared to the others. You could add items from your afternoon of Day 4 as time permits. You will be walking past the same area on the two days.
Remember that churches are mostly closed for several hours in the middle of the day

When you are at Piazza del Popolo you should climb up to the Pincio gardens for the view if it is a nice day

I would consider giving the kids the chance to sleep in on Day 4 while you and your husband go to the Borghese

Day 5 is very busy but you can cut down on the different sites other than the Colosseum, Forum and Palatine if your family gets too tired and rushed. When my husband, 16 year old son and I visited Rome in 2007 the Roman ruins were our son's top priority so we spent a lot of time seeing them and spread it out over several days
I think most people report shorter lines at the Forum than at the Palatine entrance for tickets

kybourbon

I wouldn't buy return tickets from Naples to Rome in advance. I think you will still be able to get the family rate buying at the last minute and it will leave your day more flexible if things take longer than you anticipate.

You can purchase the Roma Pass at the airport. The Commune di Rome desk is to the right after you exit the baggage area. Keep walking past the shops (and other tourist infor type booths) and it's about the last booth on the left. I was the only customer when I bought my pass as I don't think most people realize it's there.

I would start using my Roma Pass on Friday for transportation and then for free entrance to the Borghese the next day and again for the Coloseum. The transportation is good for three days so I would plan to use that Friday/Sat/Sun. After your two free entrances, you can use it for a discount (50% off) at the Capitoline Museum, if you have time to go.

SusanP

I don't think you're going to get to all that, especially with 5 people. Everything takes longer with a group.

I wouldn't go to Pompeii during such a short stay in Rome. It will be a very long, tiring day (and those kids sure won't want to be up early again the next day to go to the Vatican), and there is so much to see in Rome. Or as suggested above, go to Ostia Antica instead, much easier to get to.

I wouldn't make a separate trip to Termini on the first day, either. You can get all your tickets when you go to Florence, or when you go to Pompeii if you leave that in. And if you're walking from Piazza del Popolo to Piazza Navona, that would be the time to see the Trevi Fountain on the way.

On Day 4, you're probably going to get to those churches in the afternoon when they're closed. Check their hours.

I also agree that you probably won't get to all that on Day 5. Just concentrate on the Colosseum, Forum and Palantine.

You say you don't want to put your kids off art and history for life, but your schedule may just do that, especially after 4 cities during the previous week!

annhig

hi, ozziez,

I read this with a sense of awe. not only salzburg to Dresden in 7 days, but all this and Pompeii too.

We [me, DH, kids aged then 14 & 17] spent 6 days in Rome and didn't do half this much! and that was the trip that we coined the phrase "roman foot" being the codition that you sufffer from due to walking so far.

IMHO you are being far too ambitious but also missing one of the glories of Rmoe which is teh pleasure of just wandering around ann seeing what happens. I know that the temptation is to cram in as much as possible but this is just daft.

this is what I would do:

Day 1. arrive. settle in. if everyone up to it, take walking tour of piazza navona, [just round the corner from your excellently positioned apartment] pantheon, ghetto, over the tiber to Trastevere, st. cecilia in trastevere and St. Maria too, [both lovely] eating and drinking as you go. either early supper while you are out or back to apartment for a rest and dinner near apartment.

DO NOT waste your valuable time schlepping over to Terminus to buy tickets, but DO follow suggestions of the others here about getting roma pass etc. if you want to put your kids off Rome, that would be just the thing to do.

DAy 2.

again, if you want to alienate your kids, but all means drag them out of bed early and spend ages going to pompeii on a train ,just like you did yesterday.

if you want to have a great time, put your Day 5 here. what every 10 year old boy wants to see is the colosseum. spend the morning here, followed by the forum [no longer free I gather] the capitaline museums, san clemente, etc.etc. don't forget the archi-bus that can help you get from one old sight to another.

DAy 3

this is the day for the vatican and st. peters. try to book a tour that doesn't require you to stand in line, [via the vatican web-site] and don't reckon on doing anything else.

DAy 4

if you must, pompeii. if not, ostia antica is very interesting and a nice 1/2 - 3/4 day trip.

DAy 5

villa borghese. i agree as early as possible. then shopping [you do want your 17 year old daughter to talk to you again, don't you?] wandering, eating etc. - there will be things that you want to do now that you didn't know about before you arrived - this is the time to do them.

just my two penn'th.

regards, ann

Grinisa

I agree with the others who say this is a VERY ambitious itinerary. I've taken my two daughters to Rome four times and believe me, what they remember most from these trips is the "down time" and what they discover just wandering around soaking up the sights, sounds, smells and flavors of this wonderful city.

You say you are going to make sure to have regular food and drink breaks but I wonder where they are. For instance, the first day, you probably aren't going to get lunch on the plane and if you do, it won't be much. Where are you going to find time (you arrive at the height of lunch hour) to get some food? On your next day, it looks like you have about a half hour between Pompeii and catching the Circumvesuviana to eat something, assuming you don't spend more time visiting Pompeii. After a long morning of traveling to Pompeii and seeing the ruins, those kids are going to be starving. And tired. Are you planning on just grabbing a sandwich from a panini wagon? The cafeteria at the excavations may be an option but there can be long lines there and your time alloted may not be enough. I guess your dinner is grabbed at the Naples train station? Maybe I'm too concerned about food but for our family, it's one of the best things about a trip to Italy.

suze

I think it is an unrealistic agenda. Every day is jamb-packed with nonstop activities. Plus you will have already been to 4 cities in the 7 days prior. This is a break-neck pace imho.

It takes *time* to move 5 people around a city, see the sights, on trains, waiting in line for things, in and out of museums and monuments, stopping for meals, bathroom breaks, etc.

Ozziez

A big thank you to all of you for so much marvellous advice. I am going to rework our entire itinerary now! I especially like your itinerary Ann, and everyone's suggestions about reordering the viewing of sights and dropping others is invaluable. Thanks also for advising me as to where to buy the Roma Pass and how to use it, and where to buy the train tickets and when.

TDudette, "complete handover" just means sorting out the handover of the apartment with the owner. Sorry to be so vague.

Does anyone have suggestions as to good places to take teenage girls shopping in Rome?

Also, are there any other "non-cultural" activities that I have missed (or that haven't been suggested already) that I could slot in to keep my children happy?

ellenem

I've been following Ozziez's drama of building this trip. I know one concern has been to book train tickets as soon as possible in an attempt to get Amica fares and contiguous seats for this family of five. However, others pointed out that they may still qualify for family pricing, so Amica fares may not matter as much.

San Luigi dei Francesi, Santa Maria Sopra Minerva, St Ignazio, and Gesu . . . the first three are quite close to one another, and even Gesu isn't that far away. However, considering your apartment location and your plans for other days, I suspect you can sprinkle visits to each of these in between trekking to other sights or just wandering.

For Day 5, you are quite packed but most of the sights you name are close to one another. One thing to keep in mind: It may not be obvious on a map, but St Peter in Chains is a bit of a climb up a hill from the rest of the sights you name and it has mid-day closing times. This may make it less easy to visit than the other places you list for the day. If I had to choose one, I would choose San Clemente over St Peter in Chains. Your family will see plenty of statues in the other places they visit.

Me? I usually plan one major sight for the morning, one major sight for the afternoon, and and whatever happens happens in between. And I go in any church with an open door.

With your extensive list of things to do, I suggest you keep your long list, but put a star next to the most important items to do. Then you can add in the other items on your list as time allows.

Aside from gelato, Italy has amazing thick hot chocolate your family will probably enjoy.

Via del Corso is a big shopping street. The streets leading from the Spanish Steps are high-end designer shopping. You'll find plenty of souvenir-type shops on the pedestrian routes between the Trevi fountain, the Pantheon, and Piazza Navona.

ellenem

Byt the way, there will be a Christmaqs fair in Piazza Navona during your visit--mostly candy and cheap toys, but also many booths featuring nativity figures. it will be a festive atmosphere your kids might enjoy.

opaldog

I would definitely do Ostia Antica instead of Pompeii. You will have to take into consideration the weather and the sunset. I have to guess that it probably gets dark around 4:30. I was in Rome in March and May, but I think you would have to be prepared for the kind of weather we have had in Paris in December; damp, cold, and raw. We also had sunny but cold days.

kybourbon

I think Ozziez listed Pompeii as a priority on another thread. Perhaps it would work better to switch the days around - move Pompeii to Sunday and the Colosseum to Thursday. That way you wouldn't have to get up quite so early two days in a row and you could use your Roma Pass Thursday/Friday/Saturday (save your 2nd admission for Borghese) since it expires 3 days after you start using it. You would also have several days before you need to get train tickets and not feel so rushed.

annhig

hi again, ozziez,

can't take much credit for my suggested itinerary - it's just yours, tweeked a bit. buts thanks for the thanks, anyway.

my DD, then 17, liked the little shops round the area we stayed in, ["monti"] which runs roughly between the colosseum and via nazionale. there are lots of little shops, boutiques, and workshops, as well as "local" restaurants and bars. you could wander up there when you've had enough of formal sight seeing on DAy 2 and have a mouch about. you can then catch a bus back to teh "centre" from via nazionale. [a no. 40 from memory].

you might also like to try to get hold of a small book called "rome for shoppers" or something like that which you might find on amamzon. it had lots of ideas for itineraries as well as shopping.

the sunday morning market in campo dei fiori also has lots of the sorts of things that teneage girls like - scarves, handbags, jewelery, all very cheap. and there are street venfors everywhere - my DS got a Roma [local football club] scarf very cheaply.

i advise getting things when you see them - you may not find your way back!

my kids loved it all - one of our best holidays ever. just don't over-estimate the amount you can do.

regards, ann

Sarvowinner

Hey, I'm actually Sarvowinners 17 year old daughter. We were in Rome for 3 days-i have to say that the highlights for me were the Vatican City, the Colluseum and the time i got to spend exploring with my friend Simeon, we were both 15. However my mother is very similar to in that she likes to plan out itineraries and make the most out of everyday, and i have to say that we were both quite fed up with it at the end. Especially after our time in Florence, we almost revolted! Obviously i don't know your children so they may be different but after a while to us teenagers Renaissance art all starts to look the same. I'm a bit older now and have some more appreciation for it but at the time there were so many things we could have been doing that weren't in a museum. Though you're there in winter so i can understand why you may not have this flexibility. What do your kids think about the itinerary? They'll know whether or not they want to spend a little or a lot of time in museums, I still have arguments about the amount of art galleries one should go to when they only have three days in Paris with my mother.

Shopping in Rome is an unmissable experience... Its shopping in ROME!!!! But there are a lot of generic shops that you can find anywhere. Look out for the shops we don't have here, there's a lot of funky stuff that is so much fun. I don't know how many markets will be open while you're there but i still have bags and things that i bought in Rome.

I will be in Spain with a friend sans-parentals (hehehehehe) while you are in Europe and i have to say that while i do plan on visiting some museums and galleries i'm so excited to just walk around and spend lots of time in Espresso bars and trawling through shops and markets, interacting with the locals (i also have some family there).

And make sure that your kids have something with them that they can do while standing in line, because thats the easiest way to end up with unhappy group members. I always carried a paperback with me.

I know you'll have a great time, but make sure you check with your kids just how much they want to do.
I'm going to stop procrastinating and go study again
--Caitlin

TDudette

Great point about making another longish train trip so soon.

But, sorry Ann and opaldog, I gotta strongly disagree about Ostia over Pompeii. Know how personal choices can be but to me Ostia doesn't have the drama Pompeii does or the completeness of artifacts (unless I missed something!) or the follow-up in Napoli.