Grcxx3

FINALLY getting this put together - but I still need some advice and/or recommendations.

We are a family of 4 (with 2 young teen boys). The trip is scheduled for Oct 18-26 (yes, I know it's the end of Ramadan), and is an attempt to balance historical sights, easy outdoor activities, and some R&R.

Also - we will have no jet-lag issues, this is my 2nd trip to Kusadasi and Pamukkule, and we've all been to Istanbul.

Day 1 - Fly into Istanbul and then to Izmir, arriving about 2 pm. Pick up a rental car drive to Kusadasi. On the way to Kusadai, we may make a couple of quick stops (maybe the Temple of Artimis, St. John's Basilica). Overnight at Kismet Hotel. Have reserved 1 double room and 1 deluxe room.

Day 2 - Tour of Ephesus, Ephesus Museum, and anything we missed on Day 1. Maybe the Turkish Night folklore show at the Club Caravanserail. Overnight at Kismet Hotel.

Day 3 - Nothing planned - maybe just relaxing at the hotel, maybe driving around. Overnight at Kismet Hotel.

Day 4 - Drive to Pamukkale. Maybe stop at Aphrodisias (maybe save for Day 5). Visit travertine deposits and ruins of Hierapolis. Overnight at Richmond Thermal Hotel.

Day 5 - Drive to Fethiye, possibly stopping at Aphrodisias if we didn't do it on Day 4). Overnight at Hillside Beach Club.

Day 6 - Visit Butterfly Valley, hang out at the hotel, or explore Fethiye. Overnight at Hillside Beach.

Day 7 - Arrange for a jeep safari to the Saklikent Gorge (full-day trip). Over night at the Hillside Beach.

Day 8 - R&R around the hotel and overnight at Hillside Beach.

Day 9 - Drive to Dalaman for 9am flight back to Istanbul and then flight home.

Quick summary - 3 nights in Kusadasi, 1 night in Pamukkule, 4 nights in Fethiye.

Now - some specific questions...
1. Can anyone recommend an agency to rent a car in Izmir? We need to have an automatic and we will be leaving it in Dalaman.

2. Is it possible to take a ferry to a Greek Island from Kusadasi?

3. Any restaurant recommendations for lunch on the drive from Kusadasi to Pamukkule and from Pamukkule to Fethiye?

4. There seem to be 3 different Richmond hotels in Pamukkule. I stayed at the biggest one last year. Any thoughts on which is better? Any real difference?

5. Any recommendations on what route to take from Pamukkule to Fethiye (and roughly how long a drive it is)?

6. Is Butterfly Valley near Fethiye worth the trip? Is it a 1/2-day or full-day trip?

Whatcha think????????

Marko

Looks good, well paced.

Grcxx3

Thanks Marko!

"Well paced" is exactly what I'm looking for! We hate to be on the go all the time and enjoy spending an extra day or so when we can.

Days 4 and 5 do involve a lot of driving, but we have time on either end for R&R.

Grcxx3

ttt

Anyone else want to offer any advice??????

christycruz

Hate to tweak the itinerary, but have you considered gong inland a bit to Cappadoccia? I liked that area way more than Kusadasi and Saklikent Gorge. There are great hikes, a fantastic place to stay in Uchisar (les Maisons de Cappadoce), history with the underground cities and byzantine murals, and warm friendly people. And the area isn't as built up as the coast. It's by far the most interesting place I've ever visited.

Grcxx3

We haven't forgotten Cappadoccia - just not doing it this trip. My younger son and I have been there and we loved it! We want to go as a family, but I think we're going to do in another time....combining it with Antalya and some of the Hittite sights near Ankara. We live very close to Turkey, so we plan on going many times.

propertravel

You could as well plan a day trip to Pamukkale from Kusadasi. Hotels you have picked at Kusadasi and Fethiye is good ones. Kisd will like Hillside. Visit Kayakoy as well when in Fethiye and probably also Kounos and Dalyan at least one afternoon.
Have a great time,
Murat

Grcxx3

I realize we could do Pamukkule as a day trip - but I think it would just be too hectic.

Thanks for the suggestions around Fethiye - seems like there is just a ton of stuff to do around there! I am really looking forward to it. Now, I just need to figure out which highway to take from the Pamukkule area to the coast!

Marko

We did Pammukale as a day trip from Kusadasi, the drive was tedious but the destination superb ! We did it with three kids under 14 and the funniest part was playing charades in the van with the turkish guides..hilarious !

Grcxx3

Marco - when I went last year with my younger son, there were a bunch of kids on our tour (all friends) and it was rather chaotic! Sounds like you had more fun.

This time it's just the 4 of us and my husband is doing the driving - and I really want to be able to enjoy the travertine deposits and the ruins without being rushed. That's why I want to go and spend the night in Pamukkule. I don't want to have to backtrack to Kusadasi in one day. That also gives us the option of either seeing Aphrodisias on the way to Pamukkule or on our way to Fethiye the next day.

ps1111

I visited the butterfly valley in mid-August and there were next to no butterflies! So you should research when the butterflies are best viewed (I imagine it may be springtime). There was a pretty beach area where there are some hippie types living, and you can relax on the beach there. There is a hike into the butterfly valley that leads to a waterfall. It was nice but nothing spectacular. It took the good part of a day when it was all said and done.

Grcxx3

ps1111 -
Thanks! I'll check into the timing and maybe we'll just use that day to stroll thru the town or use some of Murat's suggestions.

Grcxx3

Does anyone know if you can take a day-trip cruise to a Greek Island from the Kusadasi area????

tower

GR...the Kismet is a great choice..charming and beatifully situated on a cliff overlooking the harbor. Happy that you see Pamukkale as a good spot to visit. I'm surprised that so many people neglect it...rarely mentioned on these threads.
Between Aydin and Nazilli there are several roadside cafes featurinf lamb kebob..we stopped at one ("Eyebelyi&quot where they charge by the skewer..counting up the empty sticks after you've eaten...delicious fare.
We stayed at the bigger of the Richmonds and had the best Turkish bath and massage,
Th drive to Fethiye will be about 200 miles (320 kms.)....go south from Pam to the large city of Denizli, take the E-87 divided highway (Hwy. 585) and when it splits after 30kms. take the right fork (Hwy. 330) toward Mugla..at Mugla, head south on the 550 for 30 kms. and take the 400 east toward Fethiye....most of country is quite baren between Denizli and Mugla,,than becomes much more plush towartd Fethiye. An alternative which may be slightly shorter is to stay with the 550, E-87 from Denizli to Sogut, then take the 350 to Kemer and the 400 to Fethiye.Get a good map!
Enjoy!

Stu T.

Grcxx3

Thanks Stu!!!! Just the kind of info I was looking for!

Marko

When you are at the Kismet, walk out the front gate across the little causeway thing then turn left about 30 metres walk away overlooking the little bay is a GREAT seafood restaurant! The sun setting over the ocean is a free bonus to the cold EFES !

Grcxx3

Marco -

Thanks so much for the recommendation! My husband and boys LOVE seafood (we're from New Orleans - but I'm allergic and can't eat most things!). The fresh seafood was one of the things they loved about Istanbul. We live on the Caspian Sea - but they don't eat any of the local stuff (except the mountain crawfish).

But I will DEFINITELY take advantage of the Efes.....LOVE that stuff (I buy it weekly!!!)

asa4

I just returned from Turkey today.

I was not a huge fan of Fethiye. I dont know what Fethiye will be like in Oct. but when I was there (about 3 days ago), it was filled to the brim with British, Australian, and German tourists. Then again, I've heard it isn't as bad as Kusadesi, so I guess it's all relative. The town has stall after stall of junky tchotchkes.

I highly recommend getting on a gulet. That's what I did. That sort of thing is perfect for kids. And, October should be really nice.

If you like hiking and exploring, especially ruins, make sure your boat goes to Kayakoy, Gemiler Island (St. Nicholas Island) and Butterfly Valley.
(Note that sometimes the boats aren't able to land at Butterfly Valley due to choppy waters.)

Friends of mine did the 12-Island trip and were not as pleased as I was. (Theyre also into hiking and ruins.)

I also hiked all over Cappadocia and while, like some of the posters here, I favor Cappadoccia, I do think Butterfly Valley holds its own. It was probably my favorite place in the Fethiye area.

The hike up the waterfall is stunning. Lots of oleander, rocks, streams. And it's really interesting, what the people living there have set up for themselves. Exploring the campsites and talking to people is part of the experience. Butterflies are in season in July. I think if you google Butterfly Valley, you'll get the website for the campsites, etc.

As far as driving, we went from Sirince (near Selcuk) to Aphrodisias (about an hour and a half drive) and then drove to Fethiye. I thought Aphrodisias was even better than Efesus. Way fewer tourists and the ruins are in excellent condition.

As far as the drive to Fethiye, it took us about 3 hours. It's like driving in the Rockies. Lots of curves. So even though you have the distances, allow extra time for going up and down. There was also construction on that road between Mugla and Fethiye and sometimes you get stuck behind trucks and everyone follows like a caravan. In short, sometimes, things take more time than you expect.

Also, you should know that the main road from Mugla to Fethiye is not along the coastline. You dont see the water. And, there arent really any small towns along the way where you can stop for food.

Grcxx3

asa4 -

Thanks for the great info! I had gathered that the roads between Aprhodias and Fethiye were steep and curvy from the map, so we will definitely allow plenty of time and we will be sure to stock up on drinks and snacks in case we don't find a place to stop to eat.

I had forgotten that I wanted to do a 1-day gulet. Will have to work that in.

I don't know how crowded it will be in Oct - depends on when various schools have breaks - but I'm just not going to worry about it. And we're used to the multitude of touristy shops - as long as I can keep #2 son away from them we're fine!

How difficult is the hike in Butterfly Valley? My husband and kids are fine - but I have feet problems and sometimes have difficulty.

Thanks again for all the info!!!!

jules4je7

I've only been to Izmir (seen Ephasus), and Istanbul -- so I can't comment on your specific itinerary, but I can provide a little info on Ramadan in case you've missed it in the past.

The most important thing I learned when I was there in Oct. 2003, was that Ramadan is NOT what the Western Media portray it to be. The Muslims fast during the day (from sun-up to sundown), and at night, they all wait for the sundown Call to Prayer (around 5:30 p.m. that time of year), and then they sit down to eat. There were some instances where I passed by a shop window and could see the shop owner sitting over his food, fully prepared, waiting for the call of the mineret so he could eat...it was neat to see this ritual!

We were in Istanbul for 5 days during Ramadan, and found out that it's a PARTY at night near the Blue Mosque...very different from the rather somber or more extreme versions we've seen on TV. It's a lot of fun to see, but don't be surprised if it's not as big a deal as we Westerners make it.

The only thing I noticed is that some of the shopkeepers get a little impatient late in the day (around 3:30-4) as they are quite hungry from fasting all day, but like I said, things get really cheerful once they get to eat again.

As you know the Turks are an amazing people, so friendly and fun to be around. Enjoy your trip!

Jules

Also,