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Please critique my route around Western Europe ... It's my first time ...

Please critique my route around Western Europe ... It's my first time ...

Old Dec 30th, 2005, 12:59 PM
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Please critique my route around Western Europe ... It's my first time ...

Ok, so I've done lots of research and have posted here before; however, I still feel extremely overwhelmed. I have two months, beginning May 2nd, to travel around Europe. This will be my first time, and I will be going alone. Based on my research, this is the route I have come up with:

London (7 nights)
York (2)
Amsterdam (8)
Berlin (4)
Prague (3)
Vienna (3)
Munich (4)
Lucerne (2)
Bern (2)
Gimmelwald (2)
Venice (4)
Rome (7)
Florence (4)
Aix en Provence (2)
Barcelona (5)
Blois (2)
Paris (7)

I haven't listed day trips, as I'm still researching the ideal places for me. I am striving to stay flexible, so I don't want to overplan.

Railsaver suggested I purchase a Eurail 5 Country Pass (Benelux/France/Germany/Italy/Switzerland) for $650.

What are your opinions concerning my chosen route around Europe and the tentative number of nights I plan to stay in each place? Any suggestions and/or experiences are greatly appreciated
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Old Dec 30th, 2005, 01:21 PM
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Overall, it's a great itinerary...

I'd reduce the Amsterdam portion to 4-5 nights if daytrips are included, or 3 nights if no daytrips are included, and add the extra nights to some of those 2-nighters you have toward the end.
http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en?
If you are going by train, you should go thru a tedious but illuminating process of plunking in the to-from segments into a rail site so you can see how long the rides will be and how many transfers are involved.
A very user-friendly site for this purpose is:
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Old Dec 30th, 2005, 01:22 PM
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I don't know why that link didn't post.. sorry! Here it is:

http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en?
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Old Dec 30th, 2005, 01:38 PM
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I might shave off 1 day on your 7-8 day destinations and make a few of the 2's 3's or 3's 4's. For instance the 3 Switzerland stops of only 2 nights each place would get tiring for me checking in and out of hotels so very often.
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Old Dec 30th, 2005, 01:43 PM
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I agree with what Travelnut suggested. Eight days in Amsterdam is perhaps too long.

Personally, to reduce some travel time I would skip Blois and visit some of the Chateaux around Paris as half-day trips instead. Add a couple of days to Paris if you choose to do that. I might also add Nice as a stop between Florence & Aix.

Looks like a really fun trip !!!! I've been to all those cities except Berlin & Prague (stayed next door to Gimmelwald in Murren)

Stu Dudley
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Old Dec 30th, 2005, 02:13 PM
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Blois is not the best of the chateaux, and I do not know what type of connection you will have to that town from Barcelona. I agree that you might want to skip Blois for this time around. I also agree on shaving off a day from Amsterdam and leaving it as a floater rather than planning an alternative right away.
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Old Dec 30th, 2005, 03:13 PM
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Such quick responses I love it.

Thanks, travelnut, for the link. I found that site through Seat 61, I think.

Suze, you're right about tiring out. I'll be staying at hostels and mostly couch surfing, so based on how well I connect with certain hosts, I may stay longer in the places in which I plan on staying for a couple of nights.

Stu, I was thinking about staying in Murren instead of Gimmelwald, but so many have expressed the magic of Gimmelwald ... I'm drawn to it for some reason. I think you're right about Blois. I am least excited about that area as compared to the others on my route.

As a political science major, I have been very much intrigued by the liberal social culture of the Dutch, and a friend of mine is flying from Florida to meet me in Amsterdam to stay for a week. I can add more days to my 2-nighters; however, I'm apprehensive about cutting into July, since I've read so much about the abundance of tourists and such. Is it really that bad in early July?

Thanks again, everyone ... There's so much love in here
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Old Dec 30th, 2005, 03:19 PM
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>>Is it really that bad in early July?<<

The big crush starts in mid July. If you can stay longer - by all means do it.

Stu Dudley
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Old Dec 30th, 2005, 03:32 PM
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I won't add much to the good info you've already received . . .

But If you are set on teh long stay in A'dam then definitely expend your trip into July if you can.

The bad crowds really don't hit until the middle of July or even later. The worst is the last week of July through the first couple of weeks in Sept. But early July is fine -- most European kids don't get out of school until later in July and that is when many families go on holiday.
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Old Dec 30th, 2005, 04:32 PM
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Actually I think a week in Amsterdam would be great (not too long at all). And as long as you don't have definite tickets or reservations, you can shorten, lengthen, skip entirely places along your route. I know you can do hostel reservations from just one town ahead via phone or internet in most situations.

I've been to Europe only in July and August so this is not a comparison of June, but I did not notice an abundance of tourists except where you'd expect to find them (central Venice, the Eiffel Tower, etc.).
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Old Dec 31st, 2005, 08:55 AM
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All your responses have been greatly appreciated. I'm so relieved to know that I can cut into July.

This is my revised route:

London (7 nights)
York (2)
Amsterdam (7)
Berlin (4)
Prague (3)
Vienna (3)
Munich (4)
Lucerne (3)
Gimmelwald (3)
Venice (4)
Rome (6)
Florence (4)
Aix en Provence (2)
Barcelona (5)
Paris (7)

I feel very good about this itinerary. Thanks so much. Now, I must shift my focus on day trips. I'll search through the forum to get more info
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Old Dec 31st, 2005, 10:24 AM
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I question the locations you picked in Switzerland. I encourage you to take a look at a good map. Seems to me that, with 6 nights in the country, you want to stay in two places that allow for daytrips in all directions, getting you back even late in the evening if you like gallivanting all day in some place before heading "home" for the night.

That's not Gimmelwald, and - to a degree - it's not even Luzern.

Gimmelwald is a tiny place stuck away above a valley, pretty and a good place from which to hike in the immediate vicinity. But it is not a good springboard for day excursions - you first have to catch the gondola (!) down to the bus that takes you down to Lauterbrunnen, and there are only so many a day, then you're still not on a major train line.

Maybe Gimmelwald is for you, but you'd better be sure - there are no stores, there's nothing up there except a hostel and a few houses - the population isn't even 200 souls!

If you want to hit the incredible unforgettable major targets in that short time, like the Schilthorn and the Jungfraujoch, and maybe hike up the Niesen or the Niederhorn for bragging rights and great views and good lunch at the top, you'd be better off staying in a more central location like Interlaken, full of hotels and restaurants and shops, with two train stations, trains running until late to get you back. Or stay in Bern - see below.

Luzern is pretty, on the lake in the center of Switzerland, and with two mountains nearby that provide great views on a clear day, the Pilatus and the Rigi, both easy to get up on cograil contraptions and such. But first figure out if that's what you want to do - if not, pick a more central location to where you want to be.

If it's the eastern part of Switzerland (St. Gallen, the Saentis mountain, Appenzell, the Toggenburg and so on) then staying near Zuerich or Frauenfeld might be better, it's only an hour from Zuerich to Luzern, you'll still make that for a day, but you'll make these other destinations more easily.

If it's Zermatt and Montreux and the castle of Chillon on the lake of Geneva and the French-speaking wine country around there that interest you, stay in Montreux or Visp or Brig or somewhere central to those destination.

If it's the Berner Oberland for maybe two days, but also a day of hiking in the Jura mountains you want, maybe in Le Locle looking in on a watchmaking factory, or hopping on the flat from one historic small town to another - Morat, Romont etc., then the picturesque city of Bern would be the best place to stay - very old and very modern at the same time, a train hub that gets you to anywhere from early til late, with a pedestrian-friendly center in the historic "old city = Altstadt" next to the train station.

And we haven't even begun to talk about the most scenic of places, the Engadin where St. Moritz and Sils-Maria and, a bit further down, the Poschiavo make for excellent vacations, and from where you can go down to the Bergamo region in Italy or to Lugano in the Italian-speaking southern part of Switzerland by coach - take the Palm Express from St. Moritz, since you're heading from Switzerland to Italy anyway.

Google all these names and check a good map, then decide.

WK
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Old Dec 31st, 2005, 11:04 AM
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>>If you want to hit the incredible unforgettable major targets in that short time, like the Schilthorn and the Jungfraujoch, <<

Wally

Last time we were in this region, it was incredably expensive to take the train/lift all the way up to the top of the Junfrau. I think rocklit is on a tight budget. I'm pretty sure the 3 day(?) Berner Oberland pass (and perhaps all other passes) does not cover this run. Does anyone know what it costs now???

We stayed in Murren, and the gondola that goes to Gimmelwald runs right next to the hotel we stayed in. I agree that there would be a lot of overhead going/coming from Gimmelwald. Perhaps the best advice for rocklit if he/she wants to stay there, is to be flexible and have an "escape route" if she/he decides to go someplace else for the final two planned days in the Berner Oberland.

Stu Dudley
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Old Dec 31st, 2005, 12:40 PM
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Just keep in mind that the World Cup starts in early June - early July in Germany. I figure that is why your Germany portion is first but thought I'd mention it anyway.

You either really want to be there then or really don't want to be there then depending on your perspective on life.

Otherwise sounds great. I did two months last year in Europe but did not get through as much.
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Old Dec 31st, 2005, 01:22 PM
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Stu, you've been especially helpful ... and yes, I'll be on a tight budget - I'm 26 and live on student loans currently.

Wally, thank you so much for your thoughts and descriptions of the various towns/cities. I'm most confused about Switzerland, because there is so much to see and explore. A few months ago, I had lots of brochures and information mailed to me from the tourist office at myswitzerland.com; however, I was still unable to decide. After you posted your thoughts, I looked through them again.

I'm thinking I could stay in Bern for roughly three nights or more, with excursions as you suggest, and then stay in Lucerne, eventually taking the GoldenPass Line, with panoramic trains, to Montreux. The rates don't seem too bad:

http://www.goldenpass.ch/GPL/main.asp

Although, it seems Switzerland will be my money-splurging country. Hopefully, couch surfing will help.

Thanks so much, guys.

~Toby
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Old Jan 1st, 2006, 06:29 PM
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Toby, Bern has a splendid hostel in an excellent location, maybe 15 minutes from the train station. www.jugibern.ch will save you a ton of money.

There's another one that I don't personally know:
www.bernbackpackers.com/english.htm

Stu is right, the prime targets I mentioned cost a pretty penny for sure. You can get splendid views and experiences from the Niesen (www.niesen.ch) at a fraction of the cost, and you can hike up or down, or halfway up or halfway down, the little cable-car cabin stops at the halfway mark.

I gotta tell you, the Goldenpass from Zweisimmen/Gstaad to Montreux is not all that great. Nothing wrong with it, except that it's slow and won't blow you away - for long stretches all you see is so-so scenery, tree branches - just nothing to really make you go wow. Sorry to disappoint you, but it's not what it's cracked up to be. Pleasant, pretty, but that's it, and so are many other regular train routes all over the place.

About your latest plan: It's not fully in accord with the geography. You don't go from Luzern to Montreux, you do that from Bern, either the "normal" and fast way via Lausanne, or the long and slow way via Interlaken and Gstaad with the Goldenpass. You can go from Luzern to Interlaken, then to Gstaad, but not right now; well, you can, but you have to take a bus in the spot where the train tracks got washed out last August, unless they have been repaired and I haven't read about it, it's near the Bruenig Pass.

So maybe go to Luzern first, stay a night or two, (www.youthhostel.ch/luzern/), check out the lake and the Rigi and Pilatus, then go to Bern for a few nights and cover as many targets from there as you can. You can go from Bern in one day to Montreux (in 1:31 hr), see Chillon, do a lazy lake-boat trip back to Ouchy below Lausanne, take the funiculaire up and walk to the station of Lausanne, and still get back to Bern that night before curfew. Bern is that handy and central.

Good luck

WK
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Old Jan 2nd, 2006, 03:45 PM
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Wow, thanks Wally ... I'm saving your ideas so I can refer to them on my trip ... I have a feeling Switzerland will be my favorite country to visit ... In another forum, I was told about a charming medieval town in Czech Republic - Cesky Krumlov ... I researched it online, and I'm adding a few nights there ...

Thanks again for the helpful information.

Toby
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Old Jan 2nd, 2006, 06:15 PM
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There's a well-reviewed hostel in Vevey called Riviera Lodge right near the train station, town square, and the lake (if you end up in Montreux and need a cheapish place to stay). I've only seen it from the outside as I am lucky enough to have friends in the area. And yes, Switzerland is pretty amazing...
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Old Jan 3rd, 2006, 11:51 AM
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Suze, what a wonderful suggestion! The place is cheap and contemporary-looking. I don't think there could be a better location.

By the way, my new and revised, ever-changing and tentative itinerary is:

London (7 nights) w/ day trips to Cambridge and Oxford
Bath (2)
Amsterdam (7)
Berlin (7)
Prague (3)
Cesky Krumlov (3)
Vienna (3)
Munich (3)
Lucerne (3)
Bern (3)
Montreux (2)
Venice (3)
Rome (7)
Florence (4)
Aix en Provence (2)
Barcelona (5)
Paris (7)

Are there any suggestions for day trips from Amsterdam?
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Old Jan 3rd, 2006, 12:14 PM
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From Amsterdam you can take trains to other towns like in NY you take the subway. Delft and Haarlem are worth a visit, as are the old village along the Zuider Zee (sp?). It all depends on your interests.
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