Playing Meals by Ear - Good Idea or Not?

What you are talking about is exactly the way we always operate and for the same reasons. But, we don't go to Paris primarily to eat, as some do here. And, we tend to stick to the more inexpensive places. So, I guess it might depend on your budget too and exactly how important it is to focus in on a particular restaurant.

A most difficult question mon petit choux. Part of it depends how important meals are to you. We hate it when we have a bad experience.
We go with a list and very seldom wing it. We have made too many errors. We rarely go to a place without some sort of recommendation - this forum, hotel manager, cafe owner, other travelers, etc. We are staying in the 18th this time - a new experience for us. I have a list of about 30 places with a couple of comments besdie each one.
We tend to book one or two ahead if there are places we want to go.
Stumbling upon places does happen but my memory is not that good.

Unless you are hoping to have some very high-end meals or care deeply about whether you can get into a particular place, there's no need IMO to make reservations or even a plan. Except for special occasions or get-togethers, or if I know for certain I must have a meal at a certain restaurant on a certain night, I never plan where I'm going to eat in Paris. I have a general idea of what restaurants are where, but I also like experimenting and trying new places. It's only backfired on me a few times; most of the impromptu restaurant choices I've made have been fine, and some good enough to recommend to others and go back to again and again.

we are from new orleans where there are many wonderful restaurants of all price ranges and we eat well at home too, so good food is important to us but we also know that it does not have to cost an arm and a leg. i have researched zagat's for places with ratings of 20 and above for food and under 50 euros for cost. we also found suggestions in fodor's, paris for dummies, let's go paris and this forum, so i think we have a few good choices. we would also like to have at least one really memorable meal perhaps on our last night which would be a thursday night. for that one we will want to dress well and spend a bit more.

thanks so much for the responses so far!

robjame, I want your list!!!

monpetitchoux, I am a little like you. I live in a town (SF) with a lot of good restaurants, so while I do not go on vacation specifically to eat, I'm disappointed if I don't get a few sparklers on a trip. As a hardcore sightseer, I don't know where/when I'm going to want to eat every day. I usually make a couple of reservations before I leave or upon arrival for my top choices. Otherwise, I sorta wing it.
I don't know what your budget is, but I've been happy with some of the bistro recs on egullet.

I am not a meal reserve/planner. I read zagats and I enjoy bestrestaurantsinparis.com (I think, I'll be corrected on that if I'm wrong) We've not had any problem at all...and have found some unexpected delights.
That said, I liked the look of one place so I had lunch there as a test drive (Le Fumoir in the 1st...near the Louvre). I enjoyed it so much, I selected it for my special dinner (Thanksgiving night and I was solo in Paris). So made a reservation "just to be sure".
Walking in the Marais one afternoon, I had 1 bad steak frites. No problem, I was walking across town, got peckish and got a seat. Was my vacation ruined by 1 meal? Hardly...
But for a special meal, maybe I would research.

I hate to be so bold as to quote myself, but what I just wrote in my Barcelona trip report might be helpful to you:

" As some of you may recall, last summer we were surprised that we had a hard time finding good restaurants in Italy. I had noted many restaurant recommendations, but when the time came to eat, we either couldn't find them, or they were closed. For this trip, I assembled some 67 restaurant recommendations, mostly from this board and a few from other trusted sources; I made sure I had an actual street adress for each (not just "a block off of Las Ramblas" for example). Then I photocopied a map of Barcelona, located each restaurant, highlighted the street and wrote the name of the restaurant on the map. (I discovered that some of the recommended restaurants were in neighborhoods that we didn't plan to visit, so they were deleted from my list.) This worked very well for us. When mealtime came, I'd look at my annotated map and see what restaurants were located in the general vicinity."

I basically agree with St Cirq and that's my plan. However, I would not say that food is really "important" to me or going to places I've researched or that are name places or written up. Of course I like a good meal, who doesn't, but I'm not that picky. So I will say that if your list is drawn the way you say -- Zagats 20 or above for less than 50 euro, mentioned on here and in other very mainstream guidebooks, etc. -- then you will probably have problems getting in at the last minute without a reservation. Except for maybe the Let's Go suggestions, I imagine those are more casual.

"i have researched zagat's for places with ratings of 20 and above for food and under 50 euros for cost"

How about posting that list here? Not everything in Zagats but a few would be helpful.

missypie, i do have names, addresses and telephone numbers, but i love your idea of putting them on a map. that should make it much easier to know what we are near and what we are not.

and scrb, i'll be happy to post the names of those restaurants when i have time. i'm at work right now and must wait until i have more free time - like tomorrow morning or lunch time!

Here are three:

L'Avant Gout in the 13e 25 for food; 41 Euro per person

Astier in the 11e 22 for food; 38 Euro per person

Le Timbre in the 6e 22 for food; 37 Euro per person

In spite of all of the years that I have lived in Paris, I still enjoy going into totally unknown restaurants that look promising, as do most of my friends. In a city with so many restaurants, it would be a pity to tie oneself down to just a few "sure things".

Just play it by ear. All the menus have to be posted outside so it's easy to see what they offer and the prices so you know a little bit going in. Depending on what time you like to eat and the restaurant, some of them may not have a table for you, but there are places to eat everywhere. I don't travel for the food, but like others I don't want a horrible meal and I didn't have any horrible meals when I was in Paris.

If there is for sure some place you want to go for a "special" meal, someplace you've heard about that intrigues you, then certainly make a reservation. My friend and I were never sure where we would be or what time we would be eating so we just "winged" it and it worked out just fine for us. Actually, we were in bed eating pastries by 8:00, watching the BBC most nights.

An important joy in my trips to Paris is eating good food, without spending a fortune.

When I went last november, I checked what this board has been recommending, what Fodor's guide had, what chowhound had, and a couple of Paris based food sites.

Out of that I made a list, based on arrondissements, along with adresses and any comments.

I had a general idea of where I was going to be touring, so had some ideas for each arrondissment.

Did I follow it, sort of (did 3 of the restaurants - 1 lunch, 2- dinner), but I never made reservations. I walked by, if looked good (crowd, menu, price) went in. Results - enjoyed them all, as well as the ones I found "off list".

I asked the front desk of my hotel for recommendations, one was bit too upscale and trendy, other one couldn't find...so walked up to main street nearby and found a super fish place.

One other reason I don't prefer reservations is I like my days a bit unstructured. If I'm in an interesting area, I don't want to have to leave because my reservation is across town. And sometimes I want to eat early, versus late...and this could change based on my day, and what I decide to do that night (concert, Seine cruise, movie.etc)

I did book a restaurant once, because I really wanted to go that night. So as I was walking by at lunch time, I dropped in and left my name for that night.

Hope these ramblings help..

Mike

What a great question monpetitchoux.

Based on a sample of diners = 2 (myself and spouse) answer is: it's a good idea in France; Italy (with the notable exception of Venice); Germany; Austria; Switzerland. It's a bad idea in Spain.

But robjame hit the proverbial nail, or maybe that should be snail, on the head. In other words, it depends on what you would consider the worst sin: being more structured in terms of your time, or risking missing out on a standout meal.

Enjoy Paris.

I am living in Paris, and I eat out much more often than I should. I sometimes go by recommendations, but I have stumbled across some little treasures.

Before I moved here, when I visited, I would have a few restaurants in mind, but nothing written in stone.

My rule of thumb -- look at the other people who are eating there. So far, it hasn't failed me.

Another vote for playing it by ear.

We live in SF, so we, too, take good food pretty much for granted. But as much as we both love good food, and as important as meals are to us, half the fun of travel is the surprise factor, imo.

I can't imagine travelling any other way, but I realize that one person's surprise may be another's nightmare. (And one person's plan may be another's prison!)

We have always dined exactly as you are planning for the same reason. We don't want to be tied down to a certain time and place for a meal if our wanderings take us elsewhere. We have found in three trips to Paris that we have always been able to get a table where we wanted, without a reservation, if we were flexible. We don't eat at Michelin rated places but we don't dine at dives either, although we have wandered into a dive or two over the years that turned into a gem. We make a list of suggestions from various sources and, if we are in the area, we go in and see if we can get seated. If not then we move on and find someplace else.

I have found the recommendations here on this site to be spot on and have always enjoyed meals that come recommended by fodorites, (thanks guys!). I have also found that we can usually get seated if we are willing to arrive a little earlier than the "normal"dining hour, such as arriving by 7:30 p.m. when most places in Paris don't get really busy until after 8:30.

Have fun and say hello to Paris for me, I really miss her.

Here's a vote from someone who does make reservations, but usually the same day. I have a long list of places I'd like to try (or know I like), gleaned from multiple sources, and usually I know by midday where and when I'd like to have dinner.

In most cases calling ahead by a few hours is more than enough time to reserve a table and it lets me relax, knowing I'm not going to "waste" my time, calories, and money on the luck of the draw. If there's someplace I REALLY want to go, I usually reserve a couple of days ahead.

And if I change my mind, I always call to cancel the reservation, even if it's last minute.

Dangerous if you want a particular restaurant - esp someplace very upscale - that is often filled in advance. but - if you're looking for more casual it's doubtful you would be shut out of a lot of places.

We generally do the walk and look thing - sometimes see a place we like during the day and make resies then for that night. but we generally do one special meal in each city - and reserve that before we leave the US.

I will be traveling with my husband and 2 adult children in May and have been researching restaurants in Paris. And forgive me but I am experiencing "sticker shock"! We live in a small town in Florida and I am amazed at the prices of food in Paris! Is it at all possible to eat reasonably in Paris...under $100 for a family of four? We are definitely on a budget and cannot afford to spend an enormous amount of money on food. We do plan on buying some groceries since we will have an apartment and will be eating in for breakfasts and packing picnic lunches as well. I would love to have any recommendations for eating modestly for dinner.

The all-day-and-night brasserie places are good for inexpensive sit-down meals...You can order what you want, without feeling that you should have 2 or 3 courses. They offer roast chicken/frites, mussels, seafood, omelets, large salads, etc. and any of those might cost 8-12Euro...My husband and I aren't foodies, and don't want to spend a lot to eat..We usually pay about 33-45Euro for a nice meal, glass of wine, soda, sharing a dessert sometimes.

If we don't go to a cafe/brasserie place, we'll eat at the Asian 'traiteurs' (like a deli, kind of) where you point at various colorful foods and they heat up and bring to the table. Spicy gambas, chicken, pork, rice, veggies, Japanese beer, etc. for 25Euros and we're stuffed.

Or hit a pizza place for pizza or pasta dishes, salad, wine/soda...around 30-35Euro for 2.
You can get street crepes in the evening, too.. the corner cafe at Porte d'Orleans has a counter outside that has a line even at night. Crepes with ham, cheese, or strawberry jam, etc. 2-4Euro each.

Most of the time when you read descriptions of dinners costing 50-100Euro a person, they are in more 'refined' establishments, with popular chefs and a standing reputation. The cooking might be traditional or more inventive..
It's kind of like the difference between going out for a casual family meal and going out for a 'special occasion' meal. They both have their times and places.

Agree 100% with Travelnut's assessment. There are people here for whom food is a big part of the trip (sometimes I'm one of those people). But there's certainly more to Paris than fine food, so please don't worry. Eat at casual cafes, brasseries, pizza places, falafel places, etc., and enjoy your trip!

The thing about Paris is that even the "fast" food is good stuff. Their version of sandwich-to-go is what we buy in upscale delis: a just-baked roll, hand-sliced cheese, freshly-cut tomato, and homemade mayonnaise. Voila!

You absolutely do NOT need to spend a lot of money to eat well in Paris. Don't be intimidated by what you hear or read -- just jump in there and have a great, delicious time!

Wow, was I glad to see your posts, Travelnut, Leely and Lucie! Looks like my daughter and I will be able to afford to eat in Paris afterall!

Upscale meals are definitely not what we're looking for. But we do enjoy eating! Will we be able to get escargot at cafes or brasseries?

Thanks!

Yes, escargot is very easily found - my husband likes those, too. Often they are offered as a choice of 6 or a dozen. Look in the "entrees" section (appetizers).

Thanks, Travelnut!

Normal 1983

Last year when we rented an apartment in Paris, we found that we ate out at night a lot less than we had planned to do. At the end of a long day we were happy to just go back to the apartment and rewarm the excellent food we had found at the local markets, delis, charcuteries etc. They abound in every neighborhood and offer excellent choices at resonable prices. These were full meals too with lots of interesting possibilities available. For us, this was part of the fun of our trip. I know Parisians don't eat out every nights and tons of them were in these places buying excatly the types of foods we were buying.

I feel a lot better now after reading these posts. I was beginning to think eating out in Paris was going to cost the same as our plane fare! I'm trying to find a grocery store near our apartment on rue Debelleyme but there are no monoprix's nearby. Does anyone know of another chain of grocery store that I can look up?

Travelnut, I've been thinking the brasseries seem like great places for a nice meal when you want to have a flexible schedule...thanks for the confirmation (and your other suggestions, too). Any specific brasserie recommendations? We're staying near Place Vendome in the 1st, but of course we'll be all over the place. Thanks!

normal1983, rue Debelleyme crosses rue de Bretagne. If you walk west on rue de Bretagne you will find a grocery store on the south side of the street between rue de Saintonge and rue Charlot. I forget it's name. If you walk another couple of blocks further west, there is a Franprix just before you reach rue des Archives. The Franprix is definitely the better of the two.

Those few blocks along reu de Bretagne are a gold mine for interesting food shops. There are a couple of bakeries, a cheese shop, a fish shop, a green grocer, a roast chicken place, and a Nicolas wine store.

If you're traveling with a laptop, there is a bar/café on the southwest corner of rue Debelleyme and rue de Bretagne where I was able to pick up a good wireless signal.

Enjoy your stay.

Anselm

Thank you so much Anselm for the information. I just looked it all up on pagejaunes and have printed the maps! I am feeling a bit more confident now with all the help that has been offered. We won't go hungry! lol!

thanks for everyone's wonderful thoughts on the questions i posed. as promised scrb, here is the list i have compiled so far and listed by arrondissements which we plan to visit. zagat's ratings are food, decor, service and price.

1e
chez denise, 23, 17, 19, 44
le dauphin, 23, 18, 21, 42
la poule au pot, 21, 19, 21, 43

2e
cafe moderne, 22, 21, 21, 42

3e
auberge nicolas flamel (this is mainly here because we are harry potter fans), 20, 19, 18, 48
chez omar, 21, 16, 19, 32
le pamphlet, 23, 19, 20, 42
petit marche, 22, 17, 19, 32
le 404, 21, 25,18, 40

4e
as du fallafel, 24, 7, 16, 12
bistrot baracane, 23, 14, 21, 37
osteria, 24, 11, 15, 51

5e
cafe le petit pot, 24, 19, 18, 23
coco de mer, 22, 18, 17, 37
les papilles, 22, 16, 18, 38
petit prince de paris, 21, 18, 23, 37
reminet, 25, 18, 22, 47
rotisserie du beaujolais, 22, 16, 20, 46

6e
comptoir du relais, 22, 15, 16, 44
laduree, 22, 23, 17, 33
la maison du jardin, 22, 18, 21, 39
relais de l'entrecote, 23, 14, 19, 34
timbre, 22, 14, 23, 37
wadja, 21, 13, 19, 31

7e
auberge du champ de mars, 23, 19, 22, 41
au bon accueil, 24, 19, 22, 50
chez l'ami jean, 22, 12, 16, 42
le florimond, 24, 18, 24, 44

and does anyone have any recommendations for the 18th? most of the places in zagat's were unrated.

I, the husband of monpetitchoux, sincerely appreciate all of the great advise....next question: from the airport CDG, use a taxi or shuttle company?

No Au Fils des Saisons in the 3rd? I was thinking of trying that in a few weeks. Also was thinking of L'Entredgeu in the 17th, but the French-only thing intimidates me. I can (barely) order in French. But for really inspired bistro fare I'm willing to risk public humiliation.

Am wondering about La Ferrandaise in the 6th; I've read such mixed reports.

Monsieur Mon Petit Choux, I take normally taxis but have no idea if that's even a sensible thing to do.

I will be back from Paris before you two leave, so if I hit any of the bistros on your list, I'll report when I return.

My philosophy is to have a tentative agenda for activities and a couple of reservations for my favorite restaurants (I like to go to La Cigale Recamier for lunch; Bofinger for dinner). However, life happens to you when you are on the way somewhere else. So I feel free to throw either out the window if it is just not working or I feel like doing something else.

I agree that some of the best meals are at out of the way places that I just found. Unfortunately, I can't always find them on my return trips or they are closed or have changed hands.

Certain foods are traditions/rituals. Love the croissants and cafe au lait coming to my hotel room in the morning (even if it is cheaper to go out). Always have to have moules & frites at least once.

Hope that you have a wonderful trip.

leely, i didn't research every arrondissement, because there are a few that we don't plan on visiting. as for the 8e, i don't think i found anything within my 20/50 range. i only wish we could be in paris longer than 6 days and 6 nights, but i guess it's better than no days and no nights!

upon your return, please let us know of any recommended spots.

Frequent Paris Visitor

I am an American and live only a few hours from Paris, so we go there and to other areas of France mainly in the Alsace and Lorraine areas. If you ask locals or better yet get a Paris book from Rick Steves you can't go wrong and you will not pay an arm and a leg. I have never had a bad exeperince in Paris or any other town or village in France so just go for it and enjoy you stay.

For normal1983, when traveling, we often have our big meal at lunch. Restaurants are cheaper then. With an apartment you can eat lightly at home for dinner. As well as getting food from department stores, charcuteries, bakeries, etc., you can shop at street markets, like the Rue Mouffetard.

Thanks for the list monpetitchoux.

The price scale goes up to 50 on that list. What is the full scale?

I thought most of Zagat's scales went up to 25 or 30?

Glad this question got asked. It has always struck me as strange that many posters on this forum seem to want to know in advance where they're eating. I'd hate to be committed to being at a certain spot at a certain time and date when travelling - unless it is a flight to my next destination, or picking up a rental car.

Twoflower,

Advance reservations are a must do at many popular and starred resturants. I do my planning ahead of my trips. I reserve those that need reserving before leaving, and the others with calling a few days ahead of time.

hey scrb, i didn't do a study on it but there are probably at least 10 places that are over 150 euros per person, such as alain ducasse which is 184. way out of my price range!

I tend to do a compromise between the advance planning and winging it. I'm usually armed with a list of places I want to try. If we go to a particular place one night and think we really want to eat there, but it is filled -- then we make a reservation then and there for the next night, or the night after. That still won't work for the really grand and starred restaurants, but it works for most -- even the most popular regular places.

LES PAPILLES

i returned recently from eight glorious days in paris. i, too, do not normally make dinner reservations...but rather follow my nose with a loose list of recommendations. we'd been intrigued with les papilles and were a little more than interested in dining there. early one evening we popped our heads in to inquire about dinner that evening...no luck. and no luck for the next three nights. we even had our french "landlord" call to see if he could secure a spot for dinner...again, no luck. normally this would not bother me at all...but i have to tell you...the smells coming from les papilles were so wonderful that i've not forgotten them in the week i've been home. please oh please oh please make a reservation at les papilles and let us know how it was! such a cute place, too. not eating there was the only disappointment of my trip.

Scrb..the scales on Zagat's range from 0 to 30; the price (the last number) can go as high as 171 Euro (for Le Cinq) or even higher (I did not look at every restaurant in my book). The price is for dinner for one with one drink and tip.